Who else can use a Boom Gun?

[Ale Golem]

Can anyone with sufficient strength pick up and use a Boom Gun or is it assumed that only a Glitter Boy has the proper recoil compensation features to offset the knock back?

[jaymz]

well I'd think that a supernatul creature could probably do it, say the size of a glitterboyr or so. Their strength woudl make up for the lack of recoil compensation....

My bigger question is this. While the armour of the glitterboy was essentially lost to time for most, woudl the boom gun not be more easily reverse engineered in order to mount on say a giant robot of tracked vehicle of some kind? I mean COME ON its just a super railcannon.

[drewkitty ~..~]

well I'd think that a supernatural creature could probably do it, say the size of a glitterboyr or so. Their strength would make up for the lack of recoil compensation....

My bigger question is this. While the armor of the glitterboy was essentially lost to time for most, would the boom gun not be more easily reverse engineered in order to mount on say a giant robot of tracked vehicle of some kind? I mean COME ON its just a super railcannon.

1) the weight of the user is more an indication of who can use the BG, then their PS. W/o the recoil suppression system (the jets and pylons) the recoil will throw the user back.

If the user is half as heavy as a GB then the they will be thrown at least 60 feet, along with whatever skid damage/hurt happens to them.

While the RT 2nd ed. crossovers are not cannon, I will mention that the Valkrees (the macross era VF's/VT's) are large enough to use the BG w/o any additional suppression system to avoid being throw back. However, the BG would need to be rebuilt so their grips would fit into the VF's hands.
The above assumptions is that the user is firing off the BG while standing up.
If the user is firing it off prone like a sniper, then I would say if the user is of equal weight as a GB (this includes BG's) then they would be able to fire it off w/o any knock back.
If the user is using a BG with a mount (like WWI * WWII machine-guns had) then that would negate the recoil issue.

As far as the char's PS I would say, if the char has equivalent of +10 points higher PS then the GB,then they will not loose grip of the BG when they fire it off.

[jaymz]

The only problem with that Drew is that we do indeed see PS as a basis to if a weapon can be fired due to recoil. The new guns in Merc Ops account for it by saying if they dont have X PS then it causes Y effects with effects ranging form penalties to strike and I beleive in a couple of cases beig thrown back etc (sorry dont have the book handy at the moment so I might be mistaken)

If I am wrong my apologies and you are the man

However what of my second point? Why hasnt the gun be reverse engineered in teh last 300 years and used at least oin vehicles or larger robots? Well aside from the Wooly Mamoth Robot in South America....

[Kalidor]

It would also have to be reprogrammed since it's tied to the pylons and won't fire it they aren't deployed.

[sHaka]

Can anyone with sufficient strength pick up and use a Boom Gun or is it assumed that only a Glitter Boy has the proper recoil compensation features to offset the knock back?

Yes - Anhur (pantheon of Taut, WB 5: AFrica) likes to mix it up with one, shooting from the hip I imagine.

[ShadowLogan]

Can anyone with sufficient strength pick up and use a Boom Gun or is it assumed that only a Glitter Boy has the proper recoil compensation features to offset the knock back?

Well anyone with the proper PS should be able to pickup and use one, but without sufficient mass or some other method to compensate for the recoil they should go flying. If the 1.2ton GB requires recoil compensation with its Robotic Strength of 30 needs assistance then similarly:
-by lift/carry normal strength need x2.5times that or SN would be 1/2
-based on damages, SN would need to be nearly x2 to match a RS and forget about a human

To get past the assistance requirement would require a Robotic PS equivalent greater than 30 and/or 1.2tons.

My bigger question is this. While the armour of the glitterboy was essentially lost to time for most, would the boom gun not be more easily reverse engineered in order to mount on say a giant robot or tracked vehicle of some kind? I mean COME ON its just a super railcannon.

Not counting the Shemarians...

Most Railguns in Rifts that I've seen appear to use a different release method which impacts:
- Damage wise the BG does less than 1MD per slug (180 non-crit max w/200 per shot), versus xdx per slug (listed varies between models). It would appear that it is not as damaging in comparision
-the "i fired off x rounds to your y rounds per time period" arguement (that is not counting the slugs the BG fires, just the canister they are contained in)

Nor are other RGs listed with the side effects of the Boomgun (which can be countered).

Range wise the BG is clearly superior, but are these RGs trading range for stopping power?

Other RGs also lack the side-effects of the BG

[jaymz]

Can anyone with sufficient strength pick up and use a Boom Gun or is it assumed that only a Glitter Boy has the proper recoil compensation features to offset the knock back?

Well anyone with the proper PS should be able to pickup and use one, but without sufficient mass or some other method to compensate for the recoil they should go flying. If the 1.2ton GB requires recoil compensation with its Robotic Strength of 30 needs assistance then similarly:
-by lift/carry normal strength need x2.5times that or SN would be 1/2
-based on damages, SN would need to be nearly x2 to match a RS and forget about a human

To get past the assistance requirement would require a Robotic PS equivalent greater than 30 and/or 1.2tons.

My bigger question is this. While the armour of the glitterboy was essentially lost to time for most, would the boom gun not be more easily reverse engineered in order to mount on say a giant robot or tracked vehicle of some kind? I mean COME ON its just a super railcannon.

Not counting the Shemarians...

Most Railguns in Rifts that I've seen appear to use a different release method which impacts:
- Damage wise the BG does less than 1MD per slug (180 non-crit max w/200 per shot), versus xdx per slug (listed varies between models). It would appear that it is not as damaging in comparision
-the "i fired off x rounds to your y rounds per time period" arguement (that is not counting the slugs the BG fires, just the canister they are contained in)

Nor are other RGs listed with the side effects of the Boomgun (which can be countered).

Range wise the BG is clearly superior, but are these RGs trading range for stopping power?

Other RGs also lack the side-effects of the BG

But a company like Iron Heart or Northern gun shoud have been able to produce something like this by now. Evn if only on a vehicke of some kind as a heavy fire support vehicle....

[Mallak's Place]

Our Groups Techno Wizard has a Boom Gun, he fit it with Telekinetic-Recoil Supression System, a Personal Sound Supression System, and a Light Weight Carrying Systems. Then to top it off he keeps in in a Extra-Dimentional Holster, that causes it to appear in his hands ready to fire with a vocal command. he generaly doesn't pull it out unless needed, keeping it as a back up weapon of last resort... but he has been known to pull it out in some situations.

last time was when a New Juicer stole his drink and pulled a Vibro-Knife on him when he complined, asking "What are you going to do about it Techno-Turd!"

[Ale Golem]

Our Groups Techno Wizard has a Boom Gun, he fit it with Telekinetic-Recoil Suppression System, a Personal Sound Suppression System, and a Light Weight Carrying Systems. Then to top it off he keeps in in a Extra-Dimensional Holster, that causes it to appear in his hands ready to fire with a vocal command. he generally doesn't pull it out unless needed, keeping it as a back up weapon of last resort... but he has been known to pull it out in some situations.

last time was when a New Juicer stole his drink and pulled a Vibro-Knife on him when he complained, asking "What are you going to do about it Techno-Turd!"

Wow, where did he get all the extra Boom Guns for prototypes?

[cchopps]

Can anyone with sufficient strength pick up and use a Boom Gun or is it assumed that only a Glitter Boy has the proper recoil compensation features to offset the knock back?

Yes - Anhur (pantheon of Taut, WB 5: AFrica) likes to mix it up with one, shooting from the hip I imagine.

He has a Supernatural PS of 51. I think my players would be ok saying you gotta have a Supernatural PS of 50 to shoot it without the recoil system or being super heavy and not having penalties or knockback chance.

[Dr Megaverse]

Our Groups Techno Wizard has a Boom Gun, he fit it with Telekinetic-Recoil Supression System, a Personal Sound Supression System, and a Light Weight Carrying Systems. Then to top it off he keeps in in a Extra-Dimentional Holster, that causes it to appear in his hands ready to fire with a vocal command. he generaly doesn't pull it out unless needed, keeping it as a back up weapon of last resort... but he has been known to pull it out in some situations.

last time was when a New Juicer stole his drink and pulled a Vibro-Knife on him when he complined, asking "What are you going to do about it Techno-Turd!"

Details aside...this left me with an evil grin on my face from ear to ear!

[cchopps]

Something being "Splugorth Approved" is hilarious.

[Dr Megaverse]

Not to be off topic...but the way I see it...everythings Splugorth approved! lol

[Mallak's Place]

Can anyone with sufficient strength pick up and use a Boom Gun or is it assumed that only a Glitter Boy has the proper recoil compensation features to offset the knock back?

Yes - Anhur (pantheon of Taut, WB 5: AFrica) likes to mix it up with one, shooting from the hip I imagine.

He has a Supernatural PS of 51. I think my players would be ok saying you gotta have a Supernatural PS of 50 to shoot it without the recoil system or being super heavy and not having penalties or knockback chance.

Don't forget he is also 18' tall and probably weighs in at a few tons.

[Mallak's Place]

Our Groups Techno Wizard has a Boom Gun, he fit it with Telekinetic-Recoil Suppression System, a Personal Sound Suppression System, and a Light Weight Carrying Systems. Then to top it off he keeps in in a Extra-Dimensional Holster, that causes it to appear in his hands ready to fire with a vocal command. he generally doesn't pull it out unless needed, keeping it as a back up weapon of last resort... but he has been known to pull it out in some situations.

last time was when a New Juicer stole his drink and pulled a Vibro-Knife on him when he complained, asking "What are you going to do about it Techno-Turd!"

Wow, where did he get all the extra Boom Guns for prototypes?

this Gun is the ptototype he has just been tinkering with it for awhile, most of his TW additions attach to the guns superstruture and don't alter the gun itself, he has 3 Guns sitting at home waiting for him to work on, he keeps joking about connecting them all together making a Tri-Boom Gun.

Details aside...this left me with an evil grin on my face from ear to ear!

Take my advise, Never fire off a few rounds from a Boom Gun inside a small bar in the center of the Burbs in the middle of the night

[ShadowLogan]

But a company like Iron Heart or Northern gun shoud have been able to produce something like this by now. Evn if only on a vehicke of some kind as a heavy fire support vehicle....

Okay what feature(s) of the Boomgun are you thinking of specifically?

[jaymz]

well just the gun itself as a whole. Seriously, the gun isn't that HIGH tech really. Just really powerful and not conducive for use by the vast majority of power armours etc. So why hasn't a major manufacturer like NG been able to at least reproduce a reasonable facsimile of the weapon for use on a tank of some kind?

[Ale Golem]

Our Groups Techno Wizard has a Boom Gun, he fit it with Telekinetic-Recoil Suppression System, a Personal Sound Suppression System, and a Light Weight Carrying Systems. Then to top it off he keeps in in a Extra-Dimensional Holster, that causes it to appear in his hands ready to fire with a vocal command. he generally doesn't pull it out unless needed, keeping it as a back up weapon of last resort... but he has been known to pull it out in some situations.

last time was when a New Juicer stole his drink and pulled a Vibro-Knife on him when he complained, asking "What are you going to do about it Techno-Turd!"

Wow, where did he get all the extra Boom Guns for prototypes?

this Gun is the ptototype he has just been tinkering with it for awhile, most of his TW additions attach to the guns superstruture and don't alter the gun itself, he has 3 Guns sitting at home waiting for him to work on, he keeps joking about connecting them all together making a Tri-Boom Gun.

I was originally asking the primary question while planning a Grackle Tooth Operator but now I may have to rework the character as a Techno Wizard. That's just a little too awesome not to at least contemplate.

[ShadowLogan]

well just the gun itself as a whole. Seriously, the gun isn't that HIGH tech really. Just really powerful and not conducive for use by the vast majority of power armours etc. So why hasn't a major manufacturer like NG been able to at least reproduce a reasonable facsimile of the weapon for use on a tank of some kind?

Though I do agree with the notion that we should be seeing it used on other platforms since heavier platforms likely won't require the elborate recoil system. Depending on how one looks at the technical aspects the BG may not appear as powerful:
-Damage: Canister vs Burst or on an individual basis (BG fires a canister that releases 200rnds vs a RG firing less rnds that individually do more)
-Range: clearly the BG is superior, but the other RGs might be trading range for power and/or it stems from their (apparent) smaller size.

Perhaps this is more psychological than technical. Even FQ suffers from it since they can produce new GBs, but don't use the BG on other platforms. Triax, Japan, New Navy (IIRC they use GBs and produce them), MiO [forget the power block that has them] also.

[jaymz]

Well I knwo this....Triax in my world has a variant of their hovertank that is armed with a boom gun as well as the Devastator adn anythign else that can take it....not as main production but small production variants...FQ I can understand it, they can build the whole thing and aren't interested in large scale open warfare so the GB makes sense and in space it makes more senseto have a humanoid platform as well.....well at least it does to me

[Anthar]

SA 2 has the Mastadon robot (name mey not be accurate) which has a Boom-gun mounted without a anchor/suppression system, so I can imagine that any large robot/vehicle with the sufficient weight can use a mounted Boom-gun. The Behemoth Explorer would be a nice mount for the gun.

Like stated before the god Anhur can fire a Boom-gun, but gods are known for tweaking the laws of physics. For most other creatures I wouldn't allow them to fire it without either having the proper magical/technological modifications in order to use it or just the sheer mass and strength to withstand the recoil. Don't forget the effects/penalties of the sonic boom.

[jaymz]

SA 2 has the Mastadon robot (name mey not be accurate) which has a Boom-gun mounted without a anchor/suppression system, so I can imagine that any large robot/vehicle with the sufficient weight can use a mounted Boom-gun. The Behemoth Explorer would be a nice mount for the gun.

Like stated before the god Anhur can fire a Boom-gun, but gods are known for tweaking the laws of physics. For most other creatures I wouldn't allow them to fire it without either having the proper magical/technological modifications in order to use it or just the sheer mass and strength to withstand the recoil. Don't forget the effects/penalties of the sonic boom.

Dragons, Gargolyes......and the likes. Yeah I can see that

[Rimmer]

A large enough Cyborg could also fire it, at least it is insinuated on page 102 Bionics sourcebook.

[Ale Golem]

Speaking of mounting a Boom Gun on platforms other than a Glitter Boy, how about as an areal weapons system. Say on a jet or powerful wing board? The forward momentum could compensate for recoil and I'm imagining small jets mounted on the nose of the weapon to compensate for upward drift when firing.

[The Beast]

well just the gun itself as a whole. Seriously, the gun isn't that HIGH tech really. Just really powerful and not conducive for use by the vast majority of power armours etc. So why hasn't a major manufacturer like NG been able to at least reproduce a reasonable facsimile of the weapon for use on a tank of some kind?

Though I do agree with the notion that we should be seeing it used on other platforms since heavier platforms likely won't require the elborate recoil system. Depending on how one looks at the technical aspects the BG may not appear as powerful:
-Damage: Canister vs Burst or on an individual basis (BG fires a canister that releases 200rnds vs a RG firing less rnds that individually do more)
-Range: clearly the BG is superior, but the other RGs might be trading range for power and/or it stems from their (apparent) smaller size.

Perhaps this is more psychological than technical. Even FQ suffers from it since they can produce new GBs, but don't use the BG on other platforms. Triax, Japan, New Navy (IIRC they use GBs and produce them), MiO [forget the power block that has them] also.

IIRC, the GBs in MiO don't have Boom Guns.

[jaymz]

well just the gun itself as a whole. Seriously, the gun isn't that HIGH tech really. Just really powerful and not conducive for use by the vast majority of power armours etc. So why hasn't a major manufacturer like NG been able to at least reproduce a reasonable facsimile of the weapon for use on a tank of some kind?

Though I do agree with the notion that we should be seeing it used on other platforms since heavier platforms likely won't require the elborate recoil system. Depending on how one looks at the technical aspects the BG may not appear as powerful:
-Damage: Canister vs Burst or on an individual basis (BG fires a canister that releases 200rnds vs a RG firing less rnds that individually do more)
-Range: clearly the BG is superior, but the other RGs might be trading range for power and/or it stems from their (apparent) smaller size.

Perhaps this is more psychological than technical. Even FQ suffers from it since they can produce new GBs, but don't use the BG on other platforms. Triax, Japan, New Navy (IIRC they use GBs and produce them), MiO [forget the power block that has them] also.

Actually the most numerous one they use does in fact have a boom gun with an optional laser cannon replacement. Then there is the uber particle beam cannnon (at least ot was till the Juggernaut showed up) and the super space man GB with the not so uber partice gun....

IIRC, the GBs in MiO don't have Boom Guns.

[Anthar]

IIRC, the GBs in MiO don't have Boom Guns.

Yes they do, the new on has the option to install it and the original has it as a it's standard weapon. In fact they are modified with a better rocket suppresion system so they can fire the boom-gun without using the laser pylons.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Speaking of mounting a Boom Gun on platforms other than a Glitter Boy, how about as an areal weapons system. Say on a jet or powerful wing board? The forward momentum could compensate for recoil and I'm imagining small jets mounted on the nose of the weapon to compensate for upward drift when firing.

Sounds like you are describing the AT-10 Thunderbolt II. (nicknamed the "warthog")

[Rimmer]

IIRC, the GBs in MiO don't have Boom Guns.

Yes they do, the new on has the option to install it and the original has it as a it's standard weapon. In fact they are modified with a better rocket suppresion system so they can fire the boom-gun without using the laser pylons.

Actually, they still have to anchor themselves to something, being a ship or asteroid to fire as per usual rules. One of the more stupid rules I have come accross. Will try to find you the source for this nugget, it may have been the old FAQ.

I personally ignore this rule.

[Jorel]

Could enough magnetic force be created to stabilize the recoil on a metal surface? Like a large ship?

[Anthar]

IIRC, the GBs in MiO don't have Boom Guns.

Yes they do, the new on has the option to install it and the original has it as a it's standard weapon. In fact they are modified with a better rocket suppresion system so they can fire the boom-gun without using the laser pylons.

Actually, they still have to anchor themselves to something, being a ship or asteroid to fire as per usual rules. One of the more stupid rules I have come accross. Will try to find you the source for this nugget, it may have been the old FAQ.

I personally ignore this rule.

No, my statement still stands. In MiO pg 67 in the description of the boom gun, it states: "The jets enable the GB to maintain its position when floating in zero gravity."

[Zer0 Kay]

The only problem with that Drew is that we do indeed see PS as a basis to if a weapon can be fired due to recoil. The new guns in Merc Ops account for it by saying if they dont have X PS then it causes Y effects with effects ranging form penalties to strike and I beleive in a couple of cases beig thrown back etc (sorry dont have the book handy at the moment so I might be mistaken)

If I am wrong my apologies and you are the man

However what of my second point? Why hasnt the gun be reverse engineered in teh last 300 years and used at least oin vehicles or larger robots? Well aside from the Wooly Mamoth Robot in South America....

Um... no. The detrimental effects on most guns listed due to only meeting minimal strength is because it would be harder to whip the gun around effectively and hold it up to aim steadily not because of the recoil.

[Zer0 Kay]

It would also have to be reprogrammed since it's tied to the pylons and won't fire it they aren't deployed.

No it wouldn't and any Technician worth their salt would be able to either make the proper closed or opened circuits for the sensors. It would be far less work than reprogramming the electronics... especially if they're hard wired and not just a stored program.

[Rimmer]

IIRC, the GBs in MiO don't have Boom Guns.

Yes they do, the new on has the option to install it and the original has it as a it's standard weapon. In fact they are modified with a better rocket suppresion system so they can fire the boom-gun without using the laser pylons.

Actually, they still have to anchor themselves to something, being a ship or asteroid to fire as per usual rules. One of the more stupid rules I have come accross. Will try to find you the source for this nugget, it may have been the old FAQ.

I personally ignore this rule.

No, my statement still stands. In MiO pg 67 in the description of the boom gun, it states: "The jets enable the GB to maintain its position when floating in zero gravity."

The rest of the sentence however, implies that while the jet by themselves are capable of maintaining the GB's position, the jets and pylons together are required to fire the Boom Gun.

Canon: Yes
Stupid: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

[Anthar]

Canon: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

All the power to you. They even have artwork of a Glitterboy firing a boom gun in space without being anchored in MiO, see to GB in the background of the Mark V(? the new one).

[jaymz]

Canon: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

All the power to you. They even have artwork of a Glitterboy firing a boom gun in space without being anchored in MiO, see to GB in the background of the Mark V(? the new one).

You sure that was a boom gun and not the optional laser? My udestanding is the laser looks the same as hte boomgun....

[azazel1024]

Canon: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

All the power to you. They even have artwork of a Glitterboy firing a boom gun in space without being anchored in MiO, see to GB in the background of the Mark V(? the new one).

Still uses thruster recoil system. Considering that space glitterboy, probably a much more powerful system than a terrestrial glitterboy would use.

ANYTHING in space would cause the firing vehicle to recoil. Newton's laws, so thrusters would be needed to counter the recoil. Any projectile weapon would cause that.

As for terrestrially, with no recoil system you'd likely need something on the order of 8-12t of mass to counter the recoil so that the vehicle doesn't overturn or get knocked on its butt for robot vehicles. Long story short, based on some canon and some conjecture a boom gun appears to have the recoil of about a 105-120mm real world tank gun. Generally the minimum mass that a 105mm high velocity gun can be mounted on is about 15t and a 120mm gun is about 25t. Less than that and it can't fire sideways (risks litteral knocking the vehicle on its side).

A 2t truck with one mounted would literally knock it over if it fired it. Probably rolling it a couple of times. A 5t one would likely just knock it on its side. A 10t one would likely knock it up on its treads/wheels before slaming back down (cannot fire in motion PERIOD!). Something heavier then 10t could maybe manage it, but it'll still be dicey.

Robot vehicles under about 5t are going to get knocked over/on their back and probably pushed back a few feet (picture the equivelent of a human being kicked in the chest, hard). Something over 5t is probably going to get staggered backwards a couple of steps from each shot. Over 10t shouldn't be to much of a problem, but still going to slow the rate of fire because it is going to take a few seconds to get the boom gun re-bore sited.
-Matt

[Anthar]

Canon: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

All the power to you. They even have artwork of a Glitterboy firing a boom gun in space without being anchored in MiO, see to GB in the background of the Mark V(? the new one).

You sure that was a boom gun and not the optional laser? My udestanding is the laser looks the same as hte boomgun....

Yes, there is no description for the optional laser and it would not require the stabilizing boosters to fire the laser.

[jaymz]

Canon: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

All the power to you. They even have artwork of a Glitterboy firing a boom gun in space without being anchored in MiO, see to GB in the background of the Mark V(? the new one).

You sure that was a boom gun and not the optional laser? My udestanding is the laser looks the same as hte boomgun....

Yes, there is no description for the optional laser and it would not require the stabilizing boosters to fire the laser.

Looking at the picture right now and look much more closely at it Anthar. It's another Mk V. Same Legs same gun....

[Anthar]

Canon: Yes
Ignored by me: Yes

All the power to you. They even have artwork of a Glitterboy firing a boom gun in space without being anchored in MiO, see to GB in the background of the Mark V(? the new one).

You sure that was a boom gun and not the optional laser? My udestanding is the laser looks the same as hte boomgun....

Yes, there is no description for the optional laser and it would not require the stabilizing boosters to fire the laser.

Looking at the picture right now and look much more closely at it Anthar. It's another Mk V. Same Legs same gun....

Opps, it's the particle beam peashooter alright, my bad.

[jaymz]

Yes, there is no description for the optional laser and it would not require the stabilizing boosters to fire the laser.

Looking at the picture right now and look much more closely at it Anthar. It's another Mk V. Same Legs same gun....

Opps, it's the particle beam peashooter alright, my bad.[/quote]


Also under the Mk III they have a write up of the laser cannon. They just don;t describe its appearance. Since ht pea shooter particle beam looks much like a Boom gun my guess woudl be so would the laser cannon...BUT by the write up of hte boom gun it would indicate to ME that the thrusters DO in fact help in maintain its position when being fired since they say the anchors are for letting it maintin its position on a ships hull etc.