intangable/invisible power combo

[Her0man0]

Ok, why oh why cant we have intangability, invisability, and cloaking all at the same time? According to cannon we cant, but why?

[NMI]

More then likely, it is due to "game balance".
I have used this combo however several times in the past. PC's to this have not caught him/her.

[Iczer]

because you would have a jerk character running around.

can't be seen, tracked, traced, or hurt. he just stands by with a high powered rifle and unloads at close range, before turning intangible and simply walking casualy away.

Who would want a character like that in a game, and who would play in a game with an antagonist like that?

Batts

[Stone Gargoyle]

It is a pretty cowardly way to play. I believe a game should always have a way of winning. Likewise, a character should always have some weakness and vulnerability. This combo eliminates too much of the challenge of the game.
That said, Alter Physical Body, Chameleon and Multiple Lives is a wicked combo to make because you can sneak in and take out the enemy, and if you die in the attempt, you can just come back as someone else!

[acreRake]

Seriously. If you insist on using a clearly moronic rule, then just substitute Chameleon for Invisibility. Or did someone with pants on their head rule that out too?

Almost every "cannot be used with" rule is garbage and can be safely ignored in anything like an intelligent game.

[Her0man0]

you know, a character with heat vision, and energy expulsion electricity could easily see and destoy this character. So its not that powerfull of a combo.

[znbrtn]

i've always felt the "thinking man's game" aspect goes both ways, and that a clever player should not be punished for using a genuinely good combination.
a villain with this combination would indeed be a massive thorn in the side of the players, but i think it would force them to truly think outside the box to thwart such a dangerous and elusive threat.

i also think that this is not game-breaking in the least. first of all, because there is at least one power that accomplishes a nearly full version of both abilities at once(APS shadow), and second, because together, they do make for a potent defense, but how useful is it when it comes time to save that lady from a smoky burning building? or to dispose of that doomsday device that's about to tunnel to the core of the earth?

remember, people: it's a superhero game. just surviving to the end does not make for a win. what use is your impenetrable defense if the world goes crashing down around you?

[Steeler49er]

many of these rules make sense if you think about it... for example, "no using two alter physical body/structure powers at the same time." if you had, say, APS Fire and Air, and used them both, you'd destroy yourself. there are actually more ways to do this with 2 APS powers than you would think of at first.

As it stand, there is no Logical reason that you shouldn't be able to combine certain APS powers like Air and Fire... Because Remember that You are immune to the adverse effects of your own powers. If you're Air and Fire your just the equivalent of being a Fire Cloud of gases which controls it's own reaction of expansion...
Of course there ain't NO WAY you could hide yourself anymore (defeating a large chunk of why you'd wanna take APS:Air over the weaker APS: Steam/Mist power!).

You could in fact Mix (as is said sooooo very often) Water & Fire! Some smuck once argued that it couldn't be done because you're either "One or the Other", meaning you can't have "Mixed State" APS powers working together as you're either solid or liquid, you can't be both, Or that your two forms would harm eachother in some kind of adverse chemical reaction.

But I contest that by saying "Your Water form (The H²O Molecules) would be "Immune to Fire" as You are normally immune to fire thanks to ASP: Fires own Gift to you, and your waterform would not suffer from damage. Nor would your Fire form get 'Dowsed' by the water because the Water H²O Molecules Are you and You are the one creating the flame which Needs Oxygen or some Other combustable to work or it suffocates, and SCINE you've got Both Hydrogen AND Oxygen already making up your Liquid state, it Would Not be a stretch to say that, This is where you're getting the Fuel for your fire from in the First place!"

Water uneffected by the Heat energy, Linked to, or Generating the Heat/Fire energy... After all, How does a NORMAL super generate fire? Eh?
What kind of combustable materials are their bodies generating for the fuel and, where does it come from in the first place? Fire is Matter that has undergone energetic aggitation... Can't have True Fire w/o it. U need a combustable.

•APS: Liquid + APS: Stone... It's already in the books as Canon. Effect is it created a character in the books that is made of Mud!
•APS: Fire & APS: Ice!!! I KNOW you guys hate This one too but, It's canon! It's in the Books.
You think that you should be able to have TWO+ more APS: Powers working together at the same time because they're of Differing materials? Try this one; In one of the PU books there is a power that lets you alter one of your limbs (a form of Partle APS) Alter Limb: Fire, Ice, Metal, Stone, Lava, Tar, Tenticals, Oil. Now you May ask "Okay Steeler, where are yoou going with this?", answeres simple, YOU as a human being are a solid REGARDLESS of whether or not you may have some chemicals in your body that are not (Im looking at You mr H²O), and you are Turning a portion of your Body into something Inorganl, unless you count tenicals. If it is Water then, You've Just pick a power that goes against Every, Single point you could have made about "Not allowing APS: powers of Differing state as they Must be One or the other". Even if you argue, stupidly I may add, that it is doable because you "Have water in your body, so it's not compleatly unnatural", I must then ask "Whah the FRACK does that have to do with it?". Your Mostly solid, with an arm entirely composed of H²O... How are you moving it? How does the transformation not cause your body to go into Shock? How is it attatched? How does it Stay Quasi-solidified into the shape of a human arm/Leg/Tail/Foot...etc?
Sure, I know how, but do you... And before you give an answere that badly Tries to incorperate or attibute Biology to the functions of the Pure H²O, let me remind you that its' Freaking water. It also goes against your arguement that Two differning states can't work together. ADDITIONALLY
This power can be taken More Than Once! You can have "Multiple Differant Altered Limbs"! and they can All be in use at the same time! Which IS a mega contradiction from the "No Two APS Combo" rule!
Fahrenheit (Or whatever his name is) from Gramercy, can turn into ½Fire & ½Ice... The two Can work together because The Minor power Alter Limb allows for Just such a similar change.
Additionally, Many powers now COMBINE two APS: Type powers. APS: Mercury has a Solid State, A liquid State, and has Body Weapon + a minor for of the Tenticals power... That's 4, Quattro, Yon, FOUR APS powers in One existing APS. So Why can't we?
Are we not considered "Okay enough in the head" to create or Own APS: combos or something?



As to OTHER APS: Combos
Let's be honest, it was Really all done for "Enforced Game Balance", which should be the GM's & Their players business and Not be left up to the company to Over enforce. Proof is the Fact that in No Way is "Multiple Beings" an APS: Power in the Slightest. It was already admitted to being listed there simply because "we put it in because we felt that it could be to Easily misued when combined with APS powers, even though it isn't one"-end quote.

That's right, never mind how you were playing it BEFORE the ret-con, nor how many of you had characters that had combos use like this in the past, Someone Somewhere Felt that you shouldn't do that anymore because It Somehow May adversilly affect Everyone else NOT PLAYING IN YOUR GAME IN YOUR HOUSE 1-2000 MILES AWAY
Yeah, okay... My game that allows such combos (albeit rarely) in Washington State Somehow Cheats You out of Your fun in Your game that is played elsewhere in the state, country, or World.
No!
It's not that I don't buy it... It's that there's Nothing TO buy.
It's not even Possible in the slightest for this to take place.

I like what Kevin USEDTA say...
"This should be a thinking mans Persons game, I like to award players for Creativity and that is why I made this game"
Well Kevin, I bought into that line "Hook... Line... And Sinker"!
I awared players for Creativity of general Play, Background, Working as a group, Great character bios, and oh yes, creative uses of powers.
NO ONE CAN BE CALLED A CHEATER IN A GAME WHERE EVERYONE IS A LIVING "UNFAIR ADVANTAGE" OVER NORMAL PEOPLE!-It's That simple.

[Overlord Rikonius]

You could in fact Mix (as is said sooooo very often) Water & Fire! Some smuck once argued that it couldn't be done because you're either "One or the Other", meaning you can't have "Mixed State" APS powers working together as you're either solid or liquid, you can't be both, Or that your two forms would harm eachother in some kind of adverse chemical reaction.

APS: Hudson River!

Besides, to further augment your point, it's not APS: Water, but APS: Liquid. So who's to say the liquid doesn't have properties conducive to fire?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Ok, why oh why cant we have intangibility, invisibility, and cloaking all at the same time? According to cannon we cant, but why?

I don't see any conflict.

Its the APS powers where you can only have one on at a time, the way I remember it.

[acreRake]

Ok, why oh why cant we have intangibility, invisibility, and cloaking all at the same time? According to cannon we cant, but why?

I don't see any conflict.

Exactly.

There's a note at the end of Cloaking stating that it can't be combined with Invisibility. There's a few of those nonsensical notes scattered about, especially in PU3.

[Sir_Spirit]

There's a note at the end of Cloaking stating that it can't be combined with Invisibility. There's a few of those nonsensical notes scattered about, especially in PU3.

That dosen't stop you from being invisible, just from having that waste of a major power{ Invisiblity}.
Color Manipulation or Bend Light are minor powers that will let you be invisible among other things.
And should be taken with Untrackable and the Cloaking/Intangible combo.

[acreRake]

There's a note at the end of Cloaking stating that it can't be combined with Invisibility. There's a few of those nonsensical notes scattered about, especially in PU3.

That dosen't stop you from being invisible, just from having that waste of a major power{ Invisiblity}.
Color Manipulation or Bend Light are minor powers that will let you be invisible among other things.
And should be taken with Untrackable and the Cloaking/Intangible combo.

Except that:
A: Two Major, Two Minor is eye-roll inducing.
B: "Transparent" as a "color" is silly.
C: Transparency makes you look like glass, not invisible.
D: I guess if you interpret "...light and light beams, such as infrared and ultraviolet...thus making him invisible to such light." to mean: "All forms and sources of visible light all at once" AND fill in the gap left by the exceedingly sketchy Duration and total lack of Attacks Per Melee information with information that supports your reading of Bend Light, then yeah... that works.
E: The note in Cloaking doesn't stop your character from turning invisible anyway because it's idiotic and can therefore be ignored.

BTW: I haven't felt this way about a topic on these boards in a loooong time! It's fun!

[Sir_Spirit]

Except that:

Um, no.
A:
B:No, it's reality(unless you want me to start whining about how purple/white/black isn't a color.....).
C:Glass isn't transparent, it's a higly reflective half mirror.
D:NOpe.
E:It isn't "stupid"it's jslut pointless, asyou can get around it quite easily.

[Her0man0]

Ive always thought of the bend light "invisibility" as being like the Preditor movies, probibly great from a distance but pretty visable up close, even if you cant see who it is.

[acreRake]

You know, a good solution might be to just mak the abilities of Cloaking part of Invisibility. That would make Invisibility worth having and alleviate the cloak/no-cloak controversy.

If you think that's too powerful, maybe add powers abilities as the character grows in experience. So, maybe a first level Invisiboy can still be picked up by motion detectors, but by 5th level he could fully Cloak.