Robotech - Rules Clarifications

[colwebbsfmc]

Greets!

This is my first post here, but I've been playing Palladium games since 1986. The first RPG I bought with my own money was Robotech book one. The problem is, I've recently started reading the FAQs and some of the more recent rules clarifications, not to mention the Shadow Chronicles RPG - and found that it's very possible that all these years I've been playing the games wrong!

Now, I have been over to the FAQ boards, and read the explainations- but it seems quite a few of them have caveats like the rule applying to TMNT but not Chaos Earth, or the rule working one way in all Palladium games except N&S where it does not apply, etc. What I'd like to do is ask specifically how certain things work in Robotech : tSC and get those answers as apply directly to Robotech : tSC. Is that kosher on this board, or must I ask it over in the FAQ and rules boards?

Thanks!

[Jason Richards]

ask here and you're good.

[Drakenred®™©]

yummy! Aged prime rib of newbi!(JUST KIDDING!) ask away.

[colwebbsfmc]

OK. Like I said, I've found answers to these, but they almost all say the rules mean one thing in some games, and another in others. What I'd like to do is clarify how they work for Robotech specifically.

1) OK, Attacks Per Melee. I dig the new clarification on "two for living" plus HtH. Add in MECT attacks. Groovy. The question is - Boxing. The FAQ says it does not apply to ranged combat. Unless it does. So which is it? Is Robotech one of the games in which it does apply to ranged combat?

2) Bonuses, bonuses. So PP does not apply, it states that pretty clearly. But when a bonus to strike is given in HtH or MECT, do they apply to ranged attacks or just melle ones in Robotech? I've seen it done both ways. Are ranged attacks always just +1 for Weapons Systems, plus any targeting modifiers, give or take an odd W.P. like Heavy MD Weapons? Or to the "+1 to strike" etc. from MECT apply?

3) Dodges. Does the -10 rule apply to mecha combat? If so, this really changes the way the game is played for me. Missiles can explicitly be dodged, but since they're way slower than most ranged attacks, does the -10 not apply to them? 4 or more missiles cannot be dodged according to the R:tSC book, but the FAQ says there is a way. Now, I'd prefer to leave it be for simplicity, but if they can't be dodged, why is there then a way to dodge them in the FAQ?

4) Auto Dodge. This is it's own animal, yes? ONLY bonuses to "Auto Dodge" apply to this kind of dodge, not stack with normal dodge bonuses. Do PP bonuses apply to this dodge? If it fails can a character burn another attack to normally dodge, or is it all-or-nothing? I can see this being a potential for massive exploitation.

5) Missiles. So Minis are no bonus, but the Cyclone targeting computer applies, yes? And possibly W.P. Heavy MD Weapons.

Normal missiles are no longer +3 unless explicity stated so? I was used to all missiles being +3, unless they were +5 for reflex. Am I reading this wrong?

6) SDC - MOS descriptions show a "+3D6" or somesuch. Plus to what? As I think I understand it, it's this number plus any bonuses from Physical skills like Body Building or Outdoorsmanship. But what it looks like is that there's a base SDC somewhere that I'm missing that the MOS adds to, then Physical skills add to that. Which interperetation is correct?

I just want to make sure I'm doing this right this time around...

THANKS in advance for the clarifications.

[Drakenred®™©]

OK. Like I said, I've found answers to these, but they almost all say the rules mean one thing in some games, and another in others. What I'd like to do is clarify how they work for Robotech specifically.

1) OK, Attacks Per Melee. I dig the new clarification on "two for living" plus HtH. Add in MECT attacks. Groovy. The question is - Boxing. The FAQ says it does not apply to ranged combat. Unless it does. So which is it? Is Robotech one of the games in which it does apply to ranged combat?

Its up to you, the way I do it is when your in a mecha ALL BONUSES STACK!

2) Bonuses, bonuses. So PP does not apply, it states that pretty clearly. But when a bonus to strike is given in HtH or MECT, do they apply to ranged attacks or just melle ones in Robotech? I've seen it done both ways. Are ranged attacks always just +1 for Weapons Systems, plus any targeting modifiers, give or take an odd W.P. like Heavy MD Weapons? Or to the "+1 to strike" etc. from MECT apply?

Like I said for me the house rule is all bonuses stack on robotech mecha, I call it the "Anima mecha combat" rule or "the reason why they build 5 story walking battlearmor that defies current milirary armor design theory is because Humanoid mecha >>>>>^1000 Conventinal armor

3) Dodges. Does the -10 rule apply to mecha combat? If so, this really changes the way the game is played for me. Missiles can explicitly be dodged, but since they're way slower than most ranged attacks, does the -10 not apply to them? 4 or more missiles cannot be dodged according to the R:tSC book, but the FAQ says there is a way. Now, I'd prefer to leave it be for simplicity, but if they can't be dodged, why is there then a way to dodge them in the FAQ?

because the -10 to dodge rule is Anti Anima where you see people dodgeing 1,000 round voleys of rifle fire by dancing like a dork having a panic attack (Ala Vash) a lot of people (myself included) Ignore the -10 to dodge rule in mecha combat.

4) Auto Dodge. This is it's own animal, yes?

yes

ONLY bonuses to "Auto Dodge" apply to this kind of dodge,

yes

not stack with normal dodge bonuses.

yes

Do PP bonuses apply to this dodge?

no

If it fails can a character burn another attack to normally dodge,

Auto dodge and Parry DO NOT use actions or attacks EVER, so you can Dodge normaly after a failed dodge

or is it all-or-nothing?

an auto dodge does not use up an action, so you can roll to dodge after autododging

I can see this being a potential for massive exploitation.

thats why God gave the invid massive missle voleys

5) Missiles. So Minis are no bonus, but the Cyclone targeting computer applies, yes?

yes

And possibly W.P. Heavy MD Weapons.

Depends on the GM, I would say yes

Normal missiles are no longer +3 unless explicity stated so? I was used to all missiles being +3, unless they were +5 for reflex. Am I reading this wrong?

I use a mix of custom and standard guidance, for example HARM missles that are "Reflex smart" vs anything with a radar system.

6) SDC - MOS descriptions show a "+3D6" or somesuch. Plus to what? As I think I understand it, it's this number plus any bonuses from Physical skills like Body Building or Outdoorsmanship. But what it looks like is that there's a base SDC somewhere that I'm missing that the MOS adds to, then Physical skills add to that. Which interperetation is correct?

Plus any they get from physical skills was how I read it, but eh.

I just want to make sure I'm doing this right this time around...

THANKS in advance for the clarifications.

[devillin]

5) Missiles. So Minis are no bonus, but the Cyclone targeting computer applies, yes?

yes

And possibly W.P. Heavy MD Weapons.

Depends on the GM, I would say yes

Normal missiles are no longer +3 unless explicity stated so? I was used to all missiles being +3, unless they were +5 for reflex. Am I reading this wrong?

I use a mix of custom and standard guidance, for example HARM missles that are "Reflex smart" vs anything with a radar system.

Actually, that is a bad copy-and-paste from Rifts Ultimate Edition. While that rule makes sense for a lost tech environment like Rifts Earth, it is nonsense for Robotech. All Robotech missiles are self-guided and would qualify for the +3 bonus. Just keep in mind that is the only bonus they get, other than a possible bonus from Weapons Systems and Heavy MD Weapons.

[Juankis]

From reading the Shdaow Chronicles book, it states that the -10 to dodge is only applied when combatants are shooting themselves at point blank, greater distances reduce this penalty, and if I recall correctly the same rule appears in R:UE

[Drakenred®™©]

From reading the Shdaow Chronicles book, it states that the -10 to dodge is only applied when combatants are shooting themselves at point blank, greater distances reduce this penalty, and if I recall correctly the same rule appears in R:UE

I would rule in that case that you cant dodge period. After all theirs no Dodge in Russian rouleet, so Im not ABOUT to allow a dodge with a fully loaded weapon!

[Beatmeclever]

5) Missiles. So Minis are no bonus, but the Cyclone targeting computer applies, yes?

yes

And possibly W.P. Heavy MD Weapons.

Depends on the GM, I would say yes

Normal missiles are no longer +3 unless explicity stated so? I was used to all missiles being +3, unless they were +5 for reflex. Am I reading this wrong?

I use a mix of custom and standard guidance, for example HARM missles that are "Reflex smart" vs anything with a radar system.

Actually, that is a bad copy-and-paste from Rifts Ultimate Edition. While that rule makes sense for a lost tech environment like Rifts Earth, it is nonsense for Robotech. All Robotech missiles are self-guided and would qualify for the +3 bonus. Just keep in mind that is the only bonus they get, other than a possible bonus from Weapons Systems and Heavy MD Weapons.

Nope, on page 242 in tSC, it says that "Unless indicated otherwise in a specific weapon, mecha, vehicle, robots, spacecraft or launcher description, mini-missiles and most types of missiles are NOT guided and do not get a bonus to strike."

[Beatmeclever]

3) Dodges. Does the -10 rule apply to mecha combat? If so, this really changes the way the game is played for me. Missiles can explicitly be dodged, but since they're way slower than most ranged attacks, does the -10 not apply to them? 4 or more missiles cannot be dodged according to the R:tSC book, but the FAQ says there is a way. Now, I'd prefer to leave it be for simplicity, but if they can't be dodged, why is there then a way to dodge them in the FAQ?

The rule on page 240 of tSC says the -10 is applied to dodge attacks within 10-feet of the shooter (point blank). Attacks within 50-feet of the shooter are at -5 to dodge. Since the book doen't have a specific "Mecha Combat" section, I would assume that the penalty applies to all attacks that fit the limitations allowing for MECT bonuses.

[MOrab46019]

With this new combat system. So far what I have been reading looks like Auto-Dodge and how it should be use is a house rule? I can live with that.

[green.nova343]

Actually, that is a bad copy-and-paste from Rifts Ultimate Edition. While that rule makes sense for a lost tech environment like Rifts Earth, it is nonsense for Robotech. All Robotech missiles are self-guided and would qualify for the +3 bonus. Just keep in mind that is the only bonus they get, other than a possible bonus from Weapons Systems and Heavy MD Weapons.

Nope, on page 242 in tSC, it says that "Unless indicated otherwise in a specific weapon, mecha, vehicle, robots, spacecraft or launcher description, mini-missiles and most types of missiles are NOT guided and do not get a bonus to strike."

That is the "bad cut-and-paste" devillin's referring to. The original version is in RUE, p. 364:

"No Missile Bonus to Strike: Unless indicated otherwise in a specific weapon, robot, vehicle or launcher description, mini-missiles and most types of missiles are NOT guided and do not get a bonus to strike."

Interestingly enough, in the new Macross Sourcebook, nearly every mecha-mounted missile launcher system states that the missiles have a strike bonus -- in some cases, a better bonus than the standard bonus, even for missiles of their size. Whether you take that as an indication of the Macross Era having a higher tech base than the New Generation/Shadow Chronicles era, or a sign from Palladium that there was possibly an error in the rules, is up to you. Given, however, that the general tech level for all other items in the Shadow Chronicles is superior to that of the Macross Era, I'd say the latter interpretation is more likely.

[green.nova343]

OK. Like I said, I've found answers to these, but they almost all say the rules mean one thing in some games, and another in others. What I'd like to do is clarify how they work for Robotech specifically.

1) OK, Attacks Per Melee. I dig the new clarification on "two for living" plus HtH. Add in MECT attacks. Groovy. The question is - Boxing. The FAQ says it does not apply to ranged combat. Unless it does. So which is it? Is Robotech one of the games in which it does apply to ranged combat?

Given that the description of the Boxing skill in TSC just says the character gets an additional attack per melee (i.e. melee = unit of time like seconds or minutes, instead of melee = type of attack being performed), & that said skill description matches the ones from both RUE & BTS2 [I'll assume it also matches the skill list in Dead Reign but since I don't own that volume I can't say for certain], I'd say that's the interpretation that's going to apply across all settings.

2) Bonuses, bonuses. So PP does not apply, it states that pretty clearly. But when a bonus to strike is given in HtH or MECT, do they apply to ranged attacks or just melle ones in Robotech? I've seen it done both ways. Are ranged attacks always just +1 for Weapons Systems, plus any targeting modifiers, give or take an odd W.P. like Heavy MD Weapons? Or to the "+1 to strike" etc. from MECT apply?

Well, from all of the mecha from both TSC & Macross, only 2 groups of mecha don't specifically state the the strike bonus from MECT training only applies to HTH combat: the Cyclones, & the Silverbacks. Even the Invid mecha list separate strike bonuses for their various weapon systems. And given that the Combat Computer descriptions for both the Cyclones & Silverbacks specifically state that they get a particular bonus with weapon systems -- a bonus identical to that enjoyed by the VF-1 (which specifically states that its MECT strike bonus is only for HTH combat) -- plus the new specifications in RUE that also separate HTH strike bonuses from weapon strike bonuses for PA suits & robot vehicles, I'm going to go out on a limb & say that unless the MECT strike bonus specifically says it's for ranged weapon attacks, it doesn't apply.

But not to worry. Although only some of the UEEF mecha get sensor bonuses to their ranged weapon attacks, all of the UEDF Destroids enjoy a +2 strike bonus (+5 for the Defender, if it's advanced radar system is working), in addition to any W.P. or Weapon Systems bonus. Note that, in this case, I would suggest following the FAQ's guidelines, using W.P. bonuses for hand-held weapons (i.e. the VR-038L's RL-6) and Weapon Systems for built-in weapons (i.e. Tomahawk's heavy p-beam cannons). Gunpods for larger mecha (i.e. GU-11 for the VF-1) are a little tricky, but given the mecha tend to drop their innate strike bonus from +2 to +1 anyway, I'd probably allow use of the W.P. bonuses instead of Weapon Systems bonuses.

3) Dodges. Does the -10 rule apply to mecha combat? If so, this really changes the way the game is played for me. Missiles can explicitly be dodged, but since they're way slower than most ranged attacks, does the -10 not apply to them? 4 or more missiles cannot be dodged according to the R:tSC book, but the FAQ says there is a way. Now, I'd prefer to leave it be for simplicity, but if they can't be dodged, why is there then a way to dodge them in the FAQ?

The Ranged Combat FAQ does mention that the "Air & Space Combat" rules from Heroes Unlimited, TMNT & N&S allow for 4 or more missiles to be dodged. Note, however, that it is an advanced aerial maneuver, as the standard rules for those games still specifically state (as per the old Robotech RPG) that 4 or more missiles can't be dodged.

There a number of maneuvers possible: Jink, Maneuver Escape & Roll-Over.
-- Jink: just a flat-out attempt to dodge everything possible. Pros: dodge roll is d20 + Speed Class +TMF. Note that TMF was specific to the TMNT game (found in TMNT Guide to the Universe), as the other games didn't rate vehicles with a TMF, let alone games not listed (like Robotech). Still, based on the top speed of most of the aerial mecha, you're talking about some very nice dodge rolls (at top speed at sea level, a VF/A-6 Alpha Fighter has a Speed Class 28; the VF-1 has a Speed Class 29). And if I had to pick, I'd say use the appropriate TMF for the type of conventional fighter the Veritech resembles, with perhaps a +1 or +2 to it (i.e. most will max out at TMF 4 or 5). Cons: must spend the entire melee jinking in order to get the dodge roll, & the pilot cannot make any attacks (although gunners can).
-- Maneuver Escape: you're moving at top speed, twisting & weaving to try & escape combat altogether. Pros: still have a nice dodge roll (d20+Speed Class). Cons: pilot is also unable to make any attacks during the attempt (although gunners are able to). The attempt itself takes at least 1 full melee, but the rules don't say whether you only get 1 dodge attempt per melee or not.
-- Roll-Over: basically an attempt at an acrobatic maneuver to gain an advantageous position during combat. Pros: the Roll-Over itself has a higher chance of success (d20+TMF+Speed Class), although the dodge attempt itself isn't quite as good (d20+TMF). Cons: maneuver takes a full melee, & the pilot still can't make any attacks (again, gunners can); again, it doesn't say whether you only get 1 dodge attempt per melee or not.

In any case, none of these maneuvers are "silver bullets" that can necessarily save your butt...unless, of course, you're so overwhelmed by attackers that you aren't going to be retaliating at the moment anyway.

4) Auto Dodge. This is it's own animal, yes? ONLY bonuses to "Auto Dodge" apply to this kind of dodge, not stack with normal dodge bonuses. Do PP bonuses apply to this dodge? If it fails can a character burn another attack to normally dodge, or is it all-or-nothing? I can see this being a potential for massive exploitation.

A) No, PP bonuses do not apply to the auto-dodge. Only O.C.C., R.C.C., MECT or HTH bonuses are counted for auto-dodge (& maybe super-powers, if your GM allows them).

B) I would rule that you have your choice: use up one of your remaining attacks, but (generally) have a higher bonus (& therefore higher chance of success) with the standard dodge; or save your attack, but have a lower bonus on the roll (& therefore lower chance of success) with the auto-dodge.

My reasoning comes from two perspectives. First, automatic dodge is an additional ability that supplements the regular dodge available to characters. When used in combat, however, it replaces the standard dodge. Standard dodge doesn't let you keep burning actions to try & dodge a single attack from your enemy. So just because you have the choice of dodging or auto-dodging doesn't mean you get to do both. Second, auto-dodge IMHO is an "advanced" defensive move, along the lines of combination strike/parry and simultaneous attack, all of which can only be selected in place of the standard dodge or parry, not in addition to them, in the combat sequence..

5) Missiles. So Minis are no bonus, but the Cyclone targeting computer applies, yes? And possibly W.P. Heavy MD Weapons. Normal missiles are no longer +3 unless explicity stated so? I was used to all missiles being +3, unless they were +5 for reflex. Am I reading this wrong?

Not exactly. As I & devillin pointed out previously, it's a cut-and-paste section from RUE. That's not to say that there aren't unguided "missiles" that could potentially be in use within the game setting, much as they are today (i.e. the Soviet BM-21 122mm rocket launcher system, US M270 MLRS, etc.) -- although the idea of "unguided" missiles is somewhat of an oxymoron, given that a missile by definition is a rocket with a guidance system installed, so an unguided missiles is simply... a rocket -- but they're almost certainly not the missiles we see in use for the most part in Robotech. Unguided missiles (aka rockets) only have parabolic flight trajectories for 1 reason: gravity. And their trajectories have a single orientation: vertical parabola. Missiles (aka guided rockets), OTOH, can have any flight path they want, depending on the type of guidance system they use: straight line, curved vertically, curving horizontally, or a combination of all 3. And they can change direction to chase after a target. Much like the missiles the 3 spies shot at Rick with when he 'tested' the Armored Valkyrie unit. Or the SRMs we see Scott & company fire multiple times from their Alpha Fighters.

As far as the Robotech setting is concerned, aside from specifically-designed rocket launcher systems (i.e. M270, BM-21), you'll generally only see unguided missiles used by independent military factions after the Rain of Death, or perhaps among Resistance groups during the Invid Occupation: groups that don't have a large, high-tech manufacturing basis available with the necessary computer chip manufacturing facilities (including the "clean rooms") to build the high-tech, advanced multi-sensor guidance systems most likely in use by the UEDF & UEEF.

6) SDC - MOS descriptions show a "+3D6" or somesuch. Plus to what? As I think I understand it, it's this number plus any bonuses from Physical skills like Body Building or Outdoorsmanship. But what it looks like is that there's a base SDC somewhere that I'm missing that the MOS adds to, then Physical skills add to that. Which interperetation is correct?

Nope, you had it right, there's no base S.D.C. anymore. Just consider it as being added to "0" S.D.C.

[Tiree]

4) Auto Dodge. This is it's own animal, yes? ONLY bonuses to "Auto Dodge" apply to this kind of dodge, not stack with normal dodge bonuses. Do PP bonuses apply to this dodge? If it fails can a character burn another attack to normally dodge, or is it all-or-nothing? I can see this being a potential for massive exploitation.

A) No, PP bonuses do not apply to the auto-dodge. Only O.C.C., R.C.C., MECT or HTH bonuses are counted for auto-dodge (& maybe super-powers, if your GM allows them).

B) I would rule that you have your choice: use up one of your remaining attacks, but (generally) have a higher bonus (& therefore higher chance of success) with the standard dodge; or save your attack, but have a lower bonus on the roll (& therefore lower chance of success) with the auto-dodge.

My reasoning comes from two perspectives. First, automatic dodge is an additional ability that supplements the regular dodge available to characters. When used in combat, however, it replaces the standard dodge. Standard dodge doesn't let you keep burning actions to try & dodge a single attack from your enemy. So just because you have the choice of dodging or auto-dodging doesn't mean you get to do both. Second, auto-dodge IMHO is an "advanced" defensive move, along the lines of combination strike/parry and simultaneous attack, all of which can only be selected in place of the standard dodge or parry, not in addition to them, in the combat sequence..

Now, I am going to disagree with you on part of your points. In TSC it does not flat out say one way or another that Auto Dodge receives a bonus from PP. Now - I did end up researching in Rifts UE that it does. Since TSC's rules are basically a stripped down version of Rifts UE, I would feel that it does apply.

With Point B - you are spot on. In fact, you have a choice, Auto Dodge, Dodge, Parry or Roll. Some of them do not take attacks, but it is a reaction, you only have one reaction to an attack.

[Snuffy]

I could use some rules clarification too.

Question - A Gnerl (Zentraedi Fighter Pod) is approaching at 480 mph, so the modifier to hit is -11. Does this apply to a self guided missile shot at the target since it can self adjust in flight?

[green.nova343]

I could use some rules clarification too.

Question - A Gnerl (Zentraedi Fighter Pod) is approaching at 480 mph, so the modifier to hit is -11. Does this apply to a self guided missile shot at the target since it can self adjust in flight?

There should probably be some sort of penalty. However, the current rules for penalties due to target speed break down rather quickly once aircraft enter the mix.

[Rimmer]

LOL, and people still wonder why my house rules folder has more pages than the RUE !

[ZINO]

yummy! Aged prime rib of newbi!(JUST KIDDING!) ask away.

ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!
that funny man

[Snuffy]

Deluxe Edition Pg 160 & Manga Pg 240 Under Ranged Combat
Target is Moving: -1 to strike, -1 additional per 50 mph beyond 20 mph, and -1 for evasive action.

So at 480 mph the target would be -11 to hit without evasive action. (looking at my spreadsheet, this may need a correction to -10, but that is a different topic)
There's no Mecha Combat Section saying anything different so this leaves us using the ranged combat rules on Mech's, Fighters, etc. If you found something different, please point it out. I would appreciate it. The original RPG had a section alone about Mecha Combat and didn't use these Ranged Combat rules.
If we are applying Ranged Combat to the Weapon Systems, I don't think they would apply to self-guided missiles since they correct their course in flight to hit the target.
I'm a bit fuzzy on how Ranged Combat would apply to a Weapon System with a Targeting System since these rules seem to be made for someone with open sights on a hand held firearm, but perhaps that is where the Weapon Systems Bonus' come from.

[Snuffy]

I haven't game tested yet, that will happening in a few weeks. I'm trying to get my comprehension of the newer rules down before throwing myself to the sharks. Like Rimmer, I could start writing my own, but I would prefer to start with the rules as written and applied correctly before I begin house ruling.

I agree with green.nova343 that the Ranged Combat rules break down rather quickly once you mix fast moving aircraft into the mix under my current understanding of the rules.

[Snuffy]

I agree. I thought that the "WP-ranged" section only applied to hand-held weapons. But there no text saying "this is only for hand-held weapons" or "this is for hand-held and mecha weapons". Was this game play-tested without house rules? If everyone is moving at 220mph+ in air combat, then there's a -4 to strike anything. Air combat would go on forever. Defenders would rarely be able to stop incoming bombers, as long as the bombers were traveling fast enough. The rule makes sense for a man with a rifle trying to hit a speeding car or a sprinting buck, but it doesn't make sense for air combat. Those are the rules though....

Robot Urchin, sorry I didn't mean to make you as confused as myself.

The only thing I would do differently in that scenario is if the Air Combat is between two aircraft going similar speeds, I would not apply speed penalties since their relative speed is similar. I would just apply the -1 for the defender if they are evasive maneuvering. At least this would alleviate some book keeping of modifiers and quicken up combat.

[Rimmer]

I haven't game tested yet, that will happening in a few weeks. I'm trying to get my comprehension of the newer rules down before throwing myself to the sharks. Like Rimmer, I could start writing my own, but I would prefer to start with the rules as written and applied correctly before I begin house ruling.

I agree with green.nova343 that the Ranged Combat rules break down rather quickly once you mix fast moving aircraft into the mix under my current understanding of the rules.

The only problem being is that you cannot run a game with the rules as written, simply because they just don't work that way. there are to many plot and logic holes that you will fall into. Just use a lot of post it notes and make up house rules as you go, when you cannot see the pages anymore due to to too many post it notes, this is your indicater to start your own house rules book

[Tiree]

I haven't game tested yet, that will happening in a few weeks. I'm trying to get my comprehension of the newer rules down before throwing myself to the sharks. Like Rimmer, I could start writing my own, but I would prefer to start with the rules as written and applied correctly before I begin house ruling.

I agree with green.nova343 that the Ranged Combat rules break down rather quickly once you mix fast moving aircraft into the mix under my current understanding of the rules.

The only problem being is that you cannot run a game with the rules as written, simply because they just don't work that way. there are to many plot and logic holes that you will fall into. Just use a lot of post it notes and make up house rules as you go, when you cannot see the pages anymore due to to too many post it notes, this is your indicator to start your own house rules book

I don't believe it is as bad as you claim. Yeah the rules are Rifts UE Lite, but that's basically it. You can use the rules to play, you just aren't going to get the nitty gritty of the combat system.

[Rimmer]

I haven't game tested yet, that will happening in a few weeks. I'm trying to get my comprehension of the newer rules down before throwing myself to the sharks. Like Rimmer, I could start writing my own, but I would prefer to start with the rules as written and applied correctly before I begin house ruling.

I agree with green.nova343 that the Ranged Combat rules break down rather quickly once you mix fast moving aircraft into the mix under my current understanding of the rules.

The only problem being is that you cannot run a game with the rules as written, simply because they just don't work that way. there are to many plot and logic holes that you will fall into. Just use a lot of post it notes and make up house rules as you go, when you cannot see the pages anymore due to to too many post it notes, this is your indicator to start your own house rules book

I don't believe it is as bad as you claim. Yeah the rules are Rifts UE Lite, but that's basically it. You can use the rules to play, you just aren't going to get the nitty gritty of the combat system.

Oh yes, you can use the rules to play, in that sense they do work, I just saying that they will bring up all manner of logic holes that you will fall into, where a situation will arise where the rules make absolutly no sense whatsoever, or the rules say one thing and everybody around the table cannot believe it.

To this day, I have not joined a Palladium game yet, where they used the same rules as another group, either through misinterpretation (through no fault of thier own i might add) willfull disregard or house rules. Even KS himself dosent use his own rules half the time.

[Tiree]

I admit, I don't follow the rules as written. But that is because I have been gaming for more decades than I would like to claim. To me, the story is key, rules be damned. The rules are just a framework for the story that the players and I as the GM provide.

So yes the RAW may not fit well, and decisions will need to be made to decide if its good enough for the group. But like any RPG players tend to ask for things well outside the scope of the game, and that's what GM's are for.

[Rimmer]

I admit, I don't follow the rules as written. But that is because I have been gaming for more decades than I would like to claim. To me, the story is key, rules be damned. The rules are just a framework for the story that the players and I as the GM provide.

So yes the RAW may not fit well, and decisions will need to be made to decide if its good enough for the group. But like any RPG players tend to ask for things well outside the scope of the game, and that's what GM's are for.

So we are agreed.

The name Tiree is ringing some bells but cannot quite place it.