Alternative Spellcasting Theories, Rifts Only

[Balabanto]

I am having a thought about Spellcasters and about how the base spellcasting rules can make a lot of problems for people and confuse them. Here's the chart.

Spell Level Attacks Per Melee to Cast
1-2 1
3-4 2
5-6 3
7-8 4
9-10 5
11-12 6
13-14 7
15 2 Melees, just like before

I noticed that as the spell chart goes up, the PPE a character gets to work with is increasingly inadequate to the task of casting the spells, and most wizards, with the exception of FOM Battle Magi, don't really get enough attacks to make this unviable. Really, anyone who CAN Cast more than one Annihilate spell should have the capacity to easily do so once a round. (Gods, Creatures with thousands of PPE, etc) It also makes for a great stupidity preventer for people who want to challenge such entities without finding a way to plan around their tons of PPE. Yet, it makes lower level mages happier as players because they don't feel inadequate. Thoughts?

Thoughts?

[Marcethus]

Granted I don't own RUE yet so I don't know how it lists it exactly. I am going by what I have heard second hand.

That and My own Modified system of how I use it.

Personally It doesn't look that appealing to me. Not many mages will ever get 7 attacks per round. Making it unviable for any mage to cast a 14th level spell in one Melee round. This is why I liked the PPE channeling system when it first came out. It gave a viable method to Spellcasters to cast spells quickly depending on their level.

[Nekira Sudacne]

You might find the new rules presented in Rifts Ultimate edition easier to use. Spells level 1-5 takes 1 action to cast, 6-10 2 actions and 11-15 and spells of legend 3 to cast.

So yes, any god with enough PPE to be chucking annaliates around can do so one or more times per round.

[livewire]

actually if you get RUE they have new spell casting rules lvs 1-5 take 1 attack 6-10 takes 2 and 11-15 and spells of legend take 3. which at low levels beats the PPE channeling rules though at high levels PPE channeling is faster

[livewire]

agghhhh beaten to punch lol

[Balabanto]

The problem with PPE channelling is that usually, you can only do it once.

Did not realize they had simplified that. That does work much better, though only two actions to cast Dragon Breath with the roll a 16 or higher on the die is kind of nasty. Oh, well. Not my problem.

[Marcethus]

yeah the RUE rules do sound better.

The problem with PPE channelling is that usually, you can only do it once.

Where in the Hells did you see that? Never have I seen anything with PPE channeling being limited like that?

[The Beast]

The problem with PPE channelling is that usually, you can only do it once.

Huh?!

[Daniel Stoker]

The problem with PPE channelling is that usually, you can only do it once.

Huh?!

I think he's talking about where you sacrifice someone for their PPE.


Daniel Stoker

[Marcethus]

The problem with PPE channelling is that usually, you can only do it once.

Huh?!

I think he's talking about where you sacrifice someone for their PPE.


Daniel Stoker

Must be cuz I was as well

[Balabanto]

Actually, Rules as Written, RUE sucks for mages too, in fact, it makes them even more helpless.

All combats come down to who wins initiative and casts Armor Bizarre. No, really, I mean it. If you are hit, your spell is disrupted. If your ARMOR is hit, your spell is disrupted. If you DODGE, PARRY, or OTHERWISE EVADE, your spell is disrupted. The only way to get off anything for sure is to cast Armor Bizarre as your first spell and hope your enemies fail their horror factor saves.

If this is the case, the Coalition is afraid of mages why? A mage can be taken out by a six year old with a thrown rock. Just keep shooting, they'll never cast a spell. Mages can easily be steamrollered by Nolan Ryan, Mariano Rivera, or any other relief pitcher throwing a baseball at them at 100 MPH. Just force them to dodge. They'll be dead soon. Because no one is going to stand there in front of MDC gunfire and think "I can take this..."

And as for creative tactics like running invisibly into the middle of your enemies and casting Sonic Boom? (Range 0) Forget that, too, because even though they lose two melee actions, someone will likely still see you before you get the spell off two melees later, and all they have to do is hit you with a 1d6 MD pistol or drop a grenade point blank, because it's more effective to blow up everything for 5d6 MD than to lose two full actions.

I think we need to seriously revisit the rules on spell disruption. The caster should have to take real physical damage, and make a coma/death save if they're knocked around like a pinball. Either that, or you dodge, but you don't, and if you beat them on the dodge check, you take the damage to your armor, but you retain the spell. There is no spell that is the equal, pound for pound, of a JA-12 or similar automatic laser rifle. You can cast Armor of Ithan to your hearts content, but so what, because you can't do anything aggressive, and chances are, unless you're a Battle Magus from FOM of some kind, you shouldn't bother casting spells at all in combat. Just have utility magic for noncombat and WP: Energy Rifle. Yes, you have to be smart to be a mage, but I think these rules might need a little bit of review.

[The Beast]

I think we need to seriously revisit the rules on spell disruption. The caster should have to take real physical damage, and make a coma/death save if they're knocked around like a pinball. Either that, or you dodge, but you don't, and if you beat them on the dodge check, you take the damage to your armor, but you retain the spell. There is no spell that is the equal, pound for pound, of a JA-12 or similar automatic laser rifle. You can cast Armor of Ithan to your hearts content, but so what, because you can't do anything aggressive, and chances are, unless you're a Battle Magus from FOM of some kind, you shouldn't bother casting spells at all in combat. Just have utility magic for noncombat and WP: Energy Rifle. Yes, you have to be smart to be a mage, but I think these rules might need a little bit of review.

Back when the PPE Channeling rules came out but before RUE did I took the rules, and some of the stuff from Through the Glass Darkly to try to fix that, and the only feedback I recieved was stuff like "It's all ready too easy to save vs magic. Why make it easier?" My main idea was to make it kind of like EQ, where if you got hit while casting, you could still cast the spell. I don't know if that topic was pruned or not. If it's still here, it'll be buried in the Guild of Magic & Psionics section.

[Balabanto]

I think the key might be one melee action up to level 8 or 9. The key issue here is that a lot of people don't want to play mages because overall, an energy rifle is better.

Other options include: Just let the attacks suck up the number of actions it says in the book, and if they want to disrupt the spell, they have to have initiative on the mage and knock him down, push him around, etc. If you really want to stop a mage from dealing his tiny amounts of megadamage, hold your action.

I honestly think it doesn't break the game at all to let it work that way, in the past, when I have, people still die all over the place.

[Library Ogre]

All combats come down to who wins initiative and casts Armor Bizarre. No, really, I mean it. If you are hit, your spell is disrupted. If your ARMOR is hit, your spell is disrupted. If you DODGE, PARRY, or OTHERWISE EVADE, your spell is disrupted. The only way to get off anything for sure is to cast Armor Bizarre as your first spell and hope your enemies fail their horror factor saves.

Don't start with Armor Bizzare. Start with Energy Field. It's a 4th level spell, so it's one action. It's 60 MDC (more at lines and nexuses), so it's respectable protection. It's an area of protection, instead of armor, so it getting hit doesn't affect you. Chameleon is also a good starter spell; level 2, and makes you more or less invisible.

[Balabanto]

All combats come down to who wins initiative and casts Armor Bizarre. No, really, I mean it. If you are hit, your spell is disrupted. If your ARMOR is hit, your spell is disrupted. If you DODGE, PARRY, or OTHERWISE EVADE, your spell is disrupted. The only way to get off anything for sure is to cast Armor Bizarre as your first spell and hope your enemies fail their horror factor saves.

Don't start with Armor Bizzare. Start with Energy Field. It's a 4th level spell, so it's one action. It's 60 MDC (more at lines and nexuses), so it's respectable protection. It's an area of protection, instead of armor, so it getting hit doesn't affect you. Chameleon is also a good starter spell; level 2, and makes you more or less invisible.

Yeah, but then anyone who attacks you (And AB is only 5th level, so it's still one action) has to Horror Factor save as soon as he does. Most grunts won't have a decent HF save.

[Library Ogre]

All combats come down to who wins initiative and casts Armor Bizarre. No, really, I mean it. If you are hit, your spell is disrupted. If your ARMOR is hit, your spell is disrupted. If you DODGE, PARRY, or OTHERWISE EVADE, your spell is disrupted. The only way to get off anything for sure is to cast Armor Bizarre as your first spell and hope your enemies fail their horror factor saves.

Don't start with Armor Bizzare. Start with Energy Field. It's a 4th level spell, so it's one action. It's 60 MDC (more at lines and nexuses), so it's respectable protection. It's an area of protection, instead of armor, so it getting hit doesn't affect you. Chameleon is also a good starter spell; level 2, and makes you more or less invisible.

Yes, but anyone who attacks you and overcomes their HF (and it's a pitiful horror factor) can trash you as your complaints said. Starting with Energy Field means they can't attack you; following with Fear (which has a HF that AB won't equal until 14th level) gives you nearly the same effect; following with AB while they can't attack you does both, without having to rely on armor.