Distort Space question

[Prince Cherico]

treat it as a line of sight teleport

[Steeler49er]

at first glance, it looks like a variation of teleport, it makes distances further or shorter. but what about interviening obsticals? lets say your hero is using this to go from rooftop to rooftop, sees a crime on the street below & 'steps' down, but failed to see the powerlines inbetween him & said crime (it's night of course. what self repecting hero prowls the rooftops durring regular business ours anyways?). or if he's chasing someone down on the street, & takes an extra 100'/level jaunt...what happens to the pedestrians in between the to points?

or is this just a 'teleport' where you have to actually physially move? (walk, run, fly scoot, etc) meaning any interviening obstacles (people, high tension wires, jailcell bars, acidic protoplamic goo, what have you) is ignored as long as you can see your destination?

that last part was an assumption of mine as you have no chance to miss your destination

Distort Space is a fun power but Unlike teleport, which hops you through another dimension and thus moving you unimpaired by obsticals of the dimension you just left (Including gravity, walls, inertia, and Pedestrians), you are in fact moving through intervening space when you use it.

So you Must take caution when using it. If you can't see a power line in your path of distorted space you've created, your gona run into it. I love this power fer all the little stunts you can pull, and even though it's range is by and far shorter, I'd still take it over teleport because I LIKE to walk. Plus, with teleport, your much more likely to teleport into an object. Unlike teleport, you can Notby pass obsticals.

[Steeler49er]

Um, you actually wouldn't be running into obstacles.

It isn't covered in the power for a reason.

Origin ------- Obstacle -------- Destination

Then you fold the space up.

Origin - Destination

Step past the space in between and let it snap back.

Origin ------- Obstacle -------- New location.

Ummm Dude... Ummm Maxxx Ummm Ummm...
Your reading (as always) what you'd Like to read out of a power. The power allows you to "DISTORT" space! Your adding in more of that psudo science you throw at people on the "Time thread". No where but NO WHERE did the power say you could "By-pass obsticals".

And FYI, the sci-IF (Not Fi) consept of "Space Fold" always involves the passing through and into another dimension like hyper space or some what not, so as to facilitate not crashing into everything in you path. It's also done that way due to the reality that, it would take a power source producing near "Infinate" amounts of energy to pin "Our Space". Other dimensions with "Unusual property" are used because in theory <Which is about 99% of what your star trek science is> they are said to require a miniscule amount of that energy.

THIS power is the ability to "Distort LOCAL Space". With it you can squish and puddle the distances betwixt you, and another location by 100ft+/-. Your apponents may, all of a sudden, find themselves running a greater distance of hundreds of feet, that wer only moments ago 10 or 20ft, just to get to you. Or you may reduce that space to inches and walk back and forth through the altered space, giving said spectators the impression that, you've just moved at mach one across the room! As the power explains, "It looks like fun house mirrors". With Space fold, all spectators see is you disappering and reappearing else where. If the power was the ability to do this, than thesecondary ability (to INCREASE distances) would be useless.

Your always stating Fiction science like as thoe it where Real Physics is now <based on how you wrote your last post all snarky like> just gotten annoying! It is NOT facts that you spew, it is all science-FICTION based crud found in Novels written by 2dimensional thinkers (not hard to expect from someone who writes books on 2 dim flat sufaces).

I'd appreciate you in the future, Not posting snarky psudo-science replys to my posts, exspecialy when there is, positively NO proof in science (other than poorly written movies from the Sci-Fi network) to back it up.

[Steeler49er]

I think the power could be used to make a version (not an exact duplicate) of the Dimensional Pockets, since the Super being could increase the distance from the mouth of a pocket (or bag) to the bottom x100, for 10 minutes per level.

I don't think the material would be any stronger (so placing a 100-lbs gold bar inside you pants pocket would still rip it) but
it should be able to hold normal items like an assault rifle several magazines, grenades and so on and then he might be able to warp the pocket to make it easy to retrieve items when necessary.

Might need your GM's okay though


>

I quite agree with this but... The problem is, does the distortion anchor to "Just" local space, OR can one anchor it to a pocket (as in your above) as well? Next, this power distorts in one direction at a time, so in your prior post <before this one> you'd have to use the power 2XTwice to get the door that spaced open, once fer height<2-AtPM> and once again fer width <4 total AtPM>. This power does not otherwise state that it removes restrictions from your path, nor does it warp/twist/distort their form out of your way. Nor do you "Space Fold" out of your intervening local into another dimension, than pop back out into Your space.

[Steeler49er]

Some sick uses of the power (Outside of trying to prove Einsteins theorys correct-which admittently would cool to see, but would require Two major powers) are the:
1) One Hundred Foot drop off technique.
With this trick you can turn that 6in "foot-fall" of a villians (IE their next step) into a 100ft +/- drop-off. Instead of their foot needing only 6inches to hit the ground, those 6inches are now 50-100-200+ feet. The villain is now dropping what should have been mere inches to the gound, now is gonna hurt.

2) Hide in plain sight.
The same trick as above can also be used to (in effect) Flatten your image into the 2 dimensional. You can make less than an inch of space, a place the length (and for more actions) of a house for you to hide in. Pushed up against a wall this should provide excellant prowl bonuses against those not expecting this from you.

3) Instant obstacle
This trick can allow you to cause speed bumps to <in effect> distort into the size of a hudered ft tall wall which can be used to block paths, or can be used to make a pebble appear to be a boulder (More of an optical illusion, but still effective).

4) Rope Trick
A very nasty twist on the "Chain tide to an Axel" stunt. You distort space after tying one end to something sturdy, than wall through a "reduced distance" distortion to another location and tie off the Other end to an object (or G forbid your evil and you tie it to a man), than let space "Snap Back" to it's Normal shape!

This can be used for Hundereds of effects-Not least is something evil like Drawing and Quartering" a person and launching their peices all over.

5) Sun Wukongs' extending staff
This trick may be applied to a whole of other stunts but it in effect causes a long object <staff in this case> to seem to extend inorder for stiking targets at great distance. Truth be told, the staff (object of choice) does not alter nor extend in any true way, instead the super applies their Distortion effects to a space in the middle of the staff (about a 1 foot portion would do), this will cause the end opposet the end the super is holding <and the portion Not in the distortion feild> to appear to shoot out ,"extend", at a high velocity towards it's target. Only the space in the middle of the staff is extended, but to onlookers the item Itself appears to have metamorphed to be longer.
<this same trick may be used on a limb to give the impression that it is extending out a great distance to hit someone. Suprise is the best this is used for as is takes both methods Two Attacks to complete, and it is safer used with an impliment than ones own limb>

Based on past discussions regarding this effect, This is a hard one for people to wrap their minds around as to what is actually happening, people tend to think that I'm describing that the "Staff Itself is being altered" a thus dismiss this trick as being undoable, but it is no differant than First distorting a 1'ft range into a 100' range of space (a pipe) and Then sticking the staff through halfway. This is the same trick, but it deceptivily looks differant for a moment.

[Steeler49er]

"Surprise" Only due to someone having never having seen the stunt done. A person can still see the pole coming at them, but the shock of it can be... Rather suprising!



At least the first time it's done.

This can be used for Hundereds of effects-Not least is something evil like Drawing and Quartering" a person and launching their peices all over.

this concerns me as an instant kill effect. looking at the power I saw

Agreed, but given the need for preparedness (setting up the whole thing). You'd basically most likely need an immobile target to perform this, not to mention how much easier it would be to just "Stick a Knife in Them!"

And the pole trick is even harder needing two attacks to perform, and the super Must line up the shot correctly over what may be a Great distance and the fact that a single miss will alert the target of the attackers method, this may be a One shot pony. And deadlyness is likely gonna be less than that provided by any EE: (energy expulsion) power <which are minor powers>.

[Steeler49er]

As to the duration, this is how long a single given distortion sticks around. If you set them up "Pre-fight" or have time during the fight (getting your enemy to diatribe fer instance is a time honored tactic), the "pin-ball" is still quite useful, and deadly.

You <knowing where the distortions are> may use them as effective land mines.


Other tricks:
6) Glass is half empty! Applied to a drink you can distort the highed of it to look like there's More or Less than is actually in the cup/glass.

7) Magnifing glass.
The super can distort the space of an object or beings Height and width (2 separate uses) to cause the target to look much bigger or smaller than it/they are in real life. This has two effects, the first is to reduce All the light from the sun (or other bright light sources) passing through a large area, down to a pin prïck of space. This has the same effect as a true magnifing glass on light.
The second use is to "Expand an Image" so you can see what is normally too small to see with the nake eye but... This same trick can be used to make a deadly strike against a small target.

8.) Look "Ma"... No hands, arms, legs, head.
This trick only requires negative motion if you play the distortion as being "stuck/fixed" in space and can Not be affixed to an object or person. In this case you MUST stay still, otherwise if you play it that distortions may be mobile than <affixed to objects & people> staying still should be a problem.

By "Increasing" the space distance of your extremity than you can make a limb appear to "Disappear", shrinking it in effect or pulling closer. Moving from a fixed distortion will "Pull" said extremity Out of the distortion and reveiling the trick for what it is.

[Steeler49er]

Where as I do like your definition of PPE (this is off subject) from when you first brought it up to me on the time thread, as it reminds me of aberrant and quantum, I've been playing it a bit differant for years.

I've played it that PPE is a complex quantum sized partical produced as a byproduct of a living beings soul like matrix. Think "Mini-Matrix Bits" or Qantum leveled nanites <Quanites>. And although not technicaly machines, they do still respond to the both the conscience & sub-conscience will/desire of complex enuff life forms. Those that become aware of the energy may use it to effect reality on that same level but must learn the feel for each individual technique' (spell) they wish to employ and Must have the proper amount of PPE to build/construct a full spell matrix.

Yadda yadda ya... spells and stuff. Just sayn it's interesting to here other peeps Ideas, as It keeps me from getting to uncreative.... now back your regularly scheduled talk...
and to bed with I

[AlanGunhouse]

Hey ".", it sounds like you would need to combine this trick with "Pause Temporal Flow" to achieve some of the stunts you suggested.

[Steeler49er]

Thank you Whiz Kid, I know all of that!
It just "Max" is Asimov, and "Steeler49er"<"."> is more Newtonian.

Mac and PC, that's all. We both like throwing a "Phyics Answere" at most everything super powered and we most likely always will... Because Whiz Kid... It's fun.

Hey ".", it sounds like you would need to combine this trick with "Pause Temporal Flow" to achieve some of the stunts you suggested.

How so?

[csbioborg]

I was under the impression that at the moment you moved past the present thier would be a huge explosion and the time travel would not happen


That is what Hawkings think anyway

[Steeler49er]

Question is, does it takes two <AtPM's> to create the distortion, or does it take One to create and one to pass through?
But the distortion can be maintained fer 10 min, which means "Max™" could create the distortion and attempt his trick (not that I follow his paticular belief in phsyics but... He is fully capable of pulling it off due to the Max 10min PLEX time limit). The Other power he'd need is something like APS: Light (Original Version from Phase world that is held by the Kreegor Supers and is considered a fully viable alt to the APS: Light found in PU) Or Superluminal Flight<with better breaks>

And to answere your prior question...

also, you mention how long a single distortion sticks around (10 minutes at first level). if you treat it as a path/tunnel through 3 dimensional space, what happens to someone who walks through it in an other than head on manner? it would have made more sense (ok, it would have been easier for a lazy arse like me) to set it up as a pair of invisible portals.

Since there is Already a portal power that does this in the books (has event-horizons which pass you through to the other side without dealing with the intervening space and obsticals) I saw no reason to make this power do the same, as This power would make that power useless, so to answere the question; Anyone entering from a diferant angle will find themselves caught in the same distortion feild.

That was pretty well easily said. You guys should note that, when palladium Wants or Allows a Character (NPC/PC) to pass through objects, they've ALWAYS brought it up and touted it as a big thing. They don't do the opposite and Not mention it. They'll also give repetitive Examples of this in action... Even Gateway does this by telling you that one can go anywhere on the planet that they've Locked onto in the past! And since LOS is always in play inregards to such travel, unless one is Just going really fast Across the earth, This power implys you can pass through the earth and any obsticals to get to your location.

Teleport, Portal, Intangable, APS Mist/water/etc... All bring up that you can Pass through said objects. Not saying yawl are wrong as, it May very Well work the way you guys got it set up, However, based on PB's method of Only bring up such a subject for If and When such a possability exists, and Not bothering if and when no opption to do so is available, I lean towards No.

[Steeler49er]

If you consider this a Portal power (which is where yawl been going with it) it beats out the Actual power with that name for ranges. As to excellerating the person, your right, it does. But Anything in your path Or who moves into said path, is Now in the Same feild and thus is likely to get ran into but at the reduced speed equal to you just walking into them.

If you guys play it so as to be no differant than the Portal power (Other than there being a special effect of how others may see you) than Distort space has better range And better aperture size <due to said event horizon having never been described.

Say'n anything that walks in the path After the fact of the distortion getting formed you CAN pass through <mostly as a safty issue> is Not the end of the world and I'm not oppossed to you guys saying that this is how it works. I'm just say'n that I don't see as being written that way.
But if you don't also say that "you can't initially create the distortion through existing solids" than your saying it is just a flashy'r and more powerful version of Portal, and that's not really maken a whole heckavalotta sence.

[Steeler49er]

I'm not trying to kill the fun. I'm just remarking that telling someone to keep science fiction out of how super powers work is contradictory to everything the game is based on, and most of what the writers are pulling ideas from. It's pretty clear pretty much any mention -let alone application- of actual science comes after the fact.

Again, I'm not against bringing in the science. I'm just remarking that science fiction was used to MAKE the powers, so leaving it at the door isn't much of an option.[/quote]
I got where you wer going and you'd be right in that it'd make me a hypocrite in sayn that... But I wasn't. I was tellin Max (TM... Never forget the TM) not to quote/use Purely Fictional Theoretical Star Trek physics as real physics when trying to explain how a power works using Real physics.

In short, I was sayn that using comic book physics in a discussion where your intent is to describe how a comic book power could be made to function in reality with Real world physics just kinda of seem to defeated the purpose... As comic book <star trek> physics can be made to do whatever you want, thus making a discussion using them mute.

One could also point out that the potential to injure/kill oneself through careless use of their power is also noted many times.

The question then becomes a matter of which detail has been overlooked.

That Is the question wer discussing.

[Steeler49er]

Sorry Max... I hate Star Trek to.
I know Id hate it if some one called me a trekker! It is kinda like a swear word to peeps who like Science.

And yes Whiz Kid, you would be right to call me a hypocrite if I'd done that... and then I'd have just eat it cuz youd have been right.

I'd say the Line of Sight requirement takes care of that. The Original Poster's question was "what if ?" which I feel really
was "WHAT IF ANY HERO WITH ANY POWER DOES SOMETHING DUMB... WHAT HAPPENS?".

Something dumb happens.

My reply, that as a GM, I'd say even a brand new PC, right out of the box knows when to use and WHEN NOT TO USE the power. Also as GM, I'd be less inclined to nitpick the player to death with "You didn't notice the 25 foot telephone pole with powerlines on it, you're dead."

To me a PC would be looking for potential obstacles, because they rely on Line of Sight.

I'd ask for a perception roll at minimum.

I don't know why thats funny... It's just the way you wrote it but Thankx to past experiances I can imagine a player do this.
WHAHP! Look out fer that tree!

[NMI]

play nice.

[Steeler49er]

I know Id hate it if some one called me a trekker! It is kinda like a swear word to peeps who like Science.

*quirks brow*
Right. Mighty kind of ya.
Look, I'm as interested in the implications of dark energy as the next guy, I loves me some Sir Clarke and Donald Kingsbury. Why is it wrong that I also like a little whackieness now and then? "Swear word" my swear word.
E.E. Doc Smith, Bradbury, even Heinlein... Turning your back on science fiction/fantasy simply because it doesn't meet... any standards of science, let's be honest here... seems foolish. If you can't enjoy a little H.G. Wells, there's something wrong with you. Can you?
If you can, then shut up about Star Trek. It's a good show. It just has... no scientific standards to speak of.

Now, back to the swear-wording subject.

huh?
You really need to read this thread and not just one single post before you write a reply. No one said sci-fi was bad, not even I <Other than Star Trek>. You've sorely misinterpreted what the discussions about...

And to NMI, peeps are playing nice just fine.

[Steeler49er]

Your Not reading what I wrote properly.
I have No issue with sci-fi, I have an issue with It being used as Sci-Fact. This dicussion seem to keep getting me to restate that.

[Steeler49er]

The "Distort Space" super power can be found in PU1

[Steeler49er]

Or you could just use the "Portal" super power and Just ingnore ALL obsticals in your LoS path... A goes strait to C, ignoring E entirely.

But, if you can "Just ignore" objects in your path in the same way as the "Portal" power does by using "Distort Space", than Why Use "Portal"? That makes "Distort Space" a better power than The "Portal" power, as Distort Space allows you to See whats on the other side of said portal, It has Far Better range, And it can "Increase Space".

If the Distort Space power is already in existance (PU1), why then bother to create a weaker version of the same power (Portal) years later (PU3)?

[Steeler49er]

While you and I are in absolute agreement here (oh my various gods, hades just froze over), it certainly wouldn't be the first time that one of the PU books had a watered-down or powered-up version of an already existing power.

Drat!!! I was hoping youd have forgotten about PB doing that!

There goes my shot at glossing over blatant PB screwups in order to push an arguement, back to the drawing board.

But as to Portal vs Distort Space:

"you can make a portal attack with it (it actually lists the effects & how the opponent can react)"
AND
"the only way you can see what's on the other side of the Distort Space portalis to look down range to see what's there (there are no bonuses to see through it or sense through it in general"

And the Only way you can see through a Portal created by using the "Portal" super power is.... Oh wait, you forgot that, you can't see (at all) what's on the Other side of a "Portal"... Again causing Distort Space to beat it out!

But you are right that one can alter Spatial orientation of either portal! And it's easier to form (1 AtPM vs. 2).

[Steeler49er]

I agree with you Max BTW on the whole displacement of mass/energy, However to take a page out of your physics book, just look at the Squashing/puddling on time space that occurrs on the plank scale with Silly...errr Super strings. They exist within New dimensional strata which distort those regions of space in which they occupy. Granted this is their natural state and they are not being warped/distorted from that state and into a new one, but doesn't it give pause to the possability of one being able to literally duplicate similar effects with this power but on a much larger level?

Could it be realistically possible to flatten a single parameter/dimmension of a portion of space by charging said zone with some foreign (here to unknown) type of energy, one that causes a collapse or expanse of a region of localized space without the detrimental effects of energy give off?

Just a question.

[Steeler49er]

Ah yeah, I was tryn out new teoría of ideas...
I think Absolutly awsome your trying to create a new physics bridge (and without messing "with any extra-dimensional tomfoolery"), I hope I'm the first to meet the Man who finds the connection.. That be rad.

[Steeler49er]

Yeah, I knew him, he called himself Max™ on the boards... Nobel Prize in advanced physics you say? He Bridged GR & QM... No kidding... Huh, Wow! Cool!

Yeah I knew him... Does that mean I can get on TV?

[Steeler49er]

He he
I just got it... took a miniute