Psi-Slinger question

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:50 pm

Just because I'm curious...

The Psi-Slinger ability "Psychic Weapons" is restricted by: "The weapon can be loaded with any conventional ammunition... In fact, magical, Techno-Wizard, Bio-Wizardry and psionic devices cannot be charged and used in this fashion."

While it's pretty obvious this ability was intended to be used with good old SDC handguns, I've curious how far you can bend this rule. So, for discussion, how about the following handguns:

1) Big Bore Revolver (p174 of New West)
2) CFT Pistols (p212-213 of New West)
3) TW Thundergun, loaded with silver rounds, not magically charged, behaves like a regular pistol (p215 of New West)
4) TW Thundergun, loaded with silver rounds, magically charged (p215 of New West)
5) C-5 Pump Pistol (Coalition War Campaign p89, or the Triax TX-5 if you prefer)

Thoughts? Opinions?

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:20 pm

Without looking at the book, I'd say as long as it was a slug-thrower of some sort, and no larger than a rifle, that power could be used.

EDIT: Also it can't be a magic weapon as the power specificlly prohibits that.

Shadyslug · Unread post by **Shadyslug** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:26 pm

My thoughts are this...

If you can psychically load an SDC firearm...why in the world would you spend the money and resources to even have something that already does MDC?

I mean...sure...have a few MDC firearms because you never know when you might need them.

But for your main arms, you might as well have a snub nose .38 because it's not going to make much of a difference...

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:25 pm

Shadyslug wrote:My thoughts are this...

If you can psychically load an SDC firearm...why in the world would you spend the money and resources to even have something that already does MDC?

I mean...sure...have a few MDC firearms because you never know when you might need them.

But for your main arms, you might as well have a snub nose .38 because it's not going to make much of a difference...

Because the damage is only 1D6 MD from a psychically charged snub nose .38, which isn't going to cut it all that often in Rifts.

Aside from the increased damage from using something like the C-5 (5D6 MD with the charge) there's also the Sharpshooting ability with an extra melee attack.

Shadyslug · Unread post by **Shadyslug** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:53 pm

I'm not saying don't have something that packs a bigger punch...but in the grand scheme of things, even doing 1d6 x # of attacks...you've got a pretty decent chance of maybe walking away from most things you might get into...

Rockwolf66 · Unread post by **Rockwolf66** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:54 pm

I would have to say that the power works only on conventional SDC Revolvers and Semi-automatic pistols. Otherwise it could get really munchkin really fast.AR15 Pistol anyone? yes it is legally a semi-automatic handgun that fires 20+l Rifle rounds.

Shadyslug · Unread post by **Shadyslug** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:55 pm

The Great Mephisto! wrote:3) Does only 1d6 MD regardless of the type of rounds fired.

This power seems exceptionally weak in the face of the fact that the typical laser pistol is doing 2d6-3d6 MD per shot. On top of which, the Psi-Slinger has comparatively low ISP at first level (MEx2+10) so he can't even use the power that much.

Even if you assume that he has an ME of 24, he can only convert a total of 75 rounds (bullets). Considering at 1st level, using 2 guns, he might be firing as many as 14 shots a round, those 75 shots aren't going to last long.

1d6 x 75 = 75 to 450 points of damage. Let's just look at the average...262.5 MD.

Overall...I'd say that's pretty darn good for sticks and stones...

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:19 pm

Rockwolf66 wrote:AR15 Pistol anyone? yes it is legally a semi-automatic handgun that fires 20+l Rifle rounds.

And that doesn't compare with the MP-10 Caseless pistol from Mercenaries.

But the power of the SDC weapon doesn't matter, it could be just a .22 cal Derringer or the NG-11S "Sawed Off" from Juicer Uprisings , the MDC damage is still 1D6. (Though for volume, the MP-10 is the way to go.)

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:23 pm

There's a fully automatic pistol that holds around 100 rounds listed in the Compendium of Modern Weapons.

Shadyslug · Unread post by **Shadyslug** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:13 pm

The Great Mephisto! wrote:3d6x75= 225-1350. Average 800. The Gunslinger with an average laser pistol does a minimum damage that is almost as much as your average damage. I'm not saying it sucks completely, I'm just saying that compared to similar characters it does.

When ammo is free and semi-unlimited, then you're more likely to go buck wild. If you're paying for ammo and it's finite...then you're a lot more careful with how often you go downtown...

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:15 pm

Shadyslug wrote:
The Great Mephisto! wrote:3d6x75= 225-1350. Average 800. The Gunslinger with an average laser pistol does a minimum damage that is almost as much as your average damage. I'm not saying it sucks completely, I'm just saying that compared to similar characters it does.

When ammo is free and semi-unlimited, then you're more likely to go buck wild. If you're paying for ammo and it's finite...then you're a lot more careful with how often you go downtown...

But when the other guy is packing a Energy Rifle...

Rockwolf66 · Unread post by **Rockwolf66** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:04 am

Mack wrote:
Rockwolf66 wrote:AR15 Pistol anyone? yes it is legally a semi-automatic handgun that fires 20+l Rifle rounds.

And that doesn't compare with the MP-10 Caseless pistol from Mercenaries.

But the power of the SDC weapon doesn't matter, it could be just a .22 cal Derringer or the NG-11S "Sawed Off" from Juicer Uprisings , the MDC damage is still 1D6. (Though for volume, the MP-10 is the way to go.)

Ah the MP-10 Machine Pistol. I do have to say that it's probably one of the most absurd SDC weapons that I have seen. Having examined a real 10mm handgun it's obvious that 20+ rounds would stick out like a Glock 18 33-round magazine and end up catching on everything. As far as the range goes it's way too long for a handgun to accuratly hit in most cases. I own a .44 Magnum and even out of a 20 inch barreled carbine the round does not have the ballistics nessesary to accuratly hit out that far. I should stop useing Real world examples in Rifts as it's comparing fantasy to reality.

Danger · Unread post by **Danger** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:12 am

By 'conventional' ammo, I'm pretty sure they intend that to mean SDC ammo.

Dead Boy · Unread post by **Dead Boy** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:24 am

Rockwolf66 wrote:I would have to say that the power works only on conventional SDC Revolvers and Semi-automatic pistols. Otherwise it could get really munchkin really fast.AR15 Pistol anyone? yes it is legally a semi-automatic handgun that fires 20+l Rifle rounds.

Sweet snap in the morning! :-D

If I'm thinking right that's either a Bushmaster or Olympic Arms. I'd love to get one those babies.

As to how this relates to the Psi-Slinger, the book does say that the power can charge up to 15 rounds at a time per 10ISP, and makes note immediately after of submachine guns and rifles that hold up to 30 rounds per clip. So actually, yea, there's nothing munchkin about using an AR-15 Pistol (like this sweet one from Olympic Arms) with this power since weapons like it are actually inferred in the power's description. So just pop in a 30 round magazine, charge it in two melee actions, and get to work.

Oh, as for the argument that the Psi-Slinger has a fairly low reserve of ISP, remember that once a bullet is psi-charged it stays that way "indefinitely"! So it's not so much a question of ISP but preparation before the fight, (hours, days, years?).

As for using this with MD weapons, as much as I'd like to allow it, I think that goes outside the spirit of the intended rules, so I'd say no to that.

Rockwolf66 · Unread post by **Rockwolf66** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:33 am

Well there is something rather munchkin about having a pistol that will shoot accuratly out to 150m. Now while the Fictional MP-10 can shoot out farther it uses handwavium as the propellant. Thus such cut down Rifles are possibly the most powerful "handguns" one can find in the game.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:53 pm

I did come across one method of getting some more damage out of the Psi-Slinger's Psychic Weapon ability: Give him a Psyscape background. All Psyscape psionic characters can double the damage/range/duration of one power at character creation.

Dustin Fireblade · Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:01 pm

Mack wrote:I did come across one method of getting some more damage out of the Psi-Slinger's Psychic Weapon ability: Give him a Psyscape background. All Psyscape psionic characters can double the damage/range/duration of one power at character creation.

Neg. That only applies to powers that can be selected from the different psi categories, not to OCC specific/exclusive powers.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:22 pm

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Mack wrote:I did come across one method of getting some more damage out of the Psi-Slinger's Psychic Weapon ability: Give him a Psyscape background. All Psyscape psionic characters can double the damage/range/duration of one power at character creation.

Neg. That only applies to powers that can be selected from the different psi categories, not to OCC specific/exclusive powers.

Hmm.. I didn't see that restriction. Will have to look again.