Changelings v. Vampires and Werewolves

[Ted Smythe]

Can changelings be turned into vampires like humans and dwarves can? If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

Also, can they be turned into werewolves, etc.? And do they retain their special ability?

[LordPP]

At first I would have thought that they couldn't be, but Rifts Vampire Kingdoms says that any intelligent humanoid can be turned into a vampire as long as they are not supernatural in nature (like a dragon), and I don't think changelings and considered supernatural.

[Killer Cyborg]

Can changelings be turned into vampires like humans and dwarves can?

Yes.

If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

I'd say no. All vampires have the same attributes and powers.

Also, can they be turned into werewolves, etc.? And do they retain their special ability?

They cannot be turned into true werewolves.
They can probably become werewolves through lycanthropy, though.
See PFRPG Monsters & Animals 2nd Edition, p. 155

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Okay, thought I'd add in with my point on this. First I'll comment on the point made above from Lord ... uh ... let's just leave it at that part of his name. It does state in Rifts Vampire Kingdoms and Western Empire (PF book that also details vampires) that "Any intelligent humanoid can be turned into a vampire ..." I won't even try to deny that point. However, there is other evidence to suggest that a Changeling still cannot be transformed. Let me address those points.

Supernatural creatures not being able to be transformed is only part of the list. It also includes magic creatures. This is stated in Rifts Vampires Kingdoms (very first line on page 20) and in Western Empire (page 206 second column at about the middle of the page). Now it never actually states Changelings in that list, but if you look at the write up of the race itself, Changelings are indeed Creatures of Magic (okay, I couldn't find a reference in either of the Conversion Books, revised or original, stating this fact. But this is the PF forum and for that I'll fall upon the main book. Read their racial write up on page 308, first paragraph). If they are indeed creatures of magic then they cannot be transformed (at least to my understanding of the rules).

Hmm ... I mentioned having points, didn't I? I had more to back this up as well though I must admit to having forgotten what those other points are at the moment. Maybe I'll remember them later, if they are needed. Though I'll admit they weren't as important at the creatures of magic note I just listed above. All right, hope to have been of help. Farewell and safe journeys.

Oh right, the werewolf question. Well in Palladium they appear to be more a race as opposed to individuals who are turned, so I'd have to say no. Though I'll agree with Killer Cyborg on the Lycanthropy Curse as a result of not being able to find any proof to the contrary. Though I will say that they could NOT use their transformation powers as a result of the curse being in more control than the changeling. That's just a personal opinion though and I have no proof to actually back that up. All right, that should be it again. Take care.

[AzathothXy]

In The Old Ones book, there is a changeling vampire, who has retained his shapechanging abilities. Whether he is an exception rather than the rule is not stated.

[The Beast]

Can changelings be turned into vampires like humans and dwarves can?

Yes.

If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

I'd say no. All vampires have the same attributes and powers.

Also, can they be turned into werewolves, etc.? And do they retain their special ability?

They cannot be turned into true werewolves.
They can probably become werewolves through lycanthropy, though.
See PFRPG Monsters & Animals 2nd Edition, p. 155

What he said.

[Goliath Strongarm]

If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

I'd say no. All vampires have the same attributes and powers.

KC, as much as it pains me, I have to disagree on this point. Not all vamps have the same attributes and powers. You have to give some looking at the base creature. A dwarf vampire is not going to be identical to an elven vampire. So, I have to go with yes, it's gonna keep its shapechanging.

Which means, Im saying yes, it can be changed.

As for the werewolf... Im going with the: not the 'normal' creature (which is a race) but by lycanthropy, yes. And yes, I still say it would keep its changeling shapechanging abilities. BUT, only while the changeling was in control. When the wolf rules, theres only the Beast

--
GS

[Nekira Sudacne]

Can changelings be turned into vampires like humans and dwarves can? If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

yes and yes

Also, can they be turned into werewolves, etc.? And do they retain their special ability?

No being can be turned into a wearwolve or any other ware beast. they are a sepreate, independant race in palladium that reproduce normally. there is no such thing as lycanthropy in palladium

[Nekira Sudacne]

If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

I'd say no. All vampires have the same attributes and powers.

KC, as much as it pains me, I have to disagree on this point. Not all vamps have the same attributes and powers. You have to give some looking at the base creature. A dwarf vampire is not going to be identical to an elven vampire.

Book and page number please. there is nothing anywhere to inidcate other races have different vampairic stats, sinse eventhe humans attributes are washed away and re-rolled, the same goes for ALL races.

[Gomen_Nagai]

actually palladium DOES have Lycanthropy as a curse, of which true werewolves and so on are immune to.


and there is a changeling vampire in Island at the edge of the world...
and well a whole lot of changelings who do tings that no other Characters before could do as well

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. And well, though as much as I hate to admit I was wrong (and I still say it was a valid point), I have to say that AzathothXy was right as far as the vampire issue. For those that say that a Changeling would lose their shape changing ability, check out Old Ones on page 199, the final vampire detailed. Though this is a master and you may argue a special case, the precedence is still set.

And as for Nekira Sudacne who said there is no such thing as lycanthrope, Killer Cyborg already gave the page and book of the Curse above. If you don't own Monsters and Animals, it can also be found in Land of the Damned 2: Eternal Torment under the section of Were-Beasts found in that book (I don't feel like pulling out the book to get the exact page number at the moment).

All right, that's all I really came here to say. Well, mainly to make the note about the vampire aspect and this is from a guy admitting he was wrong. *Grumbles.* I still don't like it and may not allow it in my games, but as official material goes, there you have it. All right, farewell and safe journeys.

[Killer Cyborg]

If so, do they retain their shape-shifting ability?

I'd say no. All vampires have the same attributes and powers.

KC, as much as it pains me, I have to disagree on this point. Not all vamps have the same attributes and powers. You have to give some looking at the base creature. A dwarf vampire is not going to be identical to an elven vampire. So, I have to go with yes, it's gonna keep its shapechanging.

Which means, Im saying yes, it can be changed.

Vampire Kingdoms, p. 13
"The transformation into a vampire destroys all vestiges of humanity, except for some faded memories and a handful of skills. The master, as are all vampires, is transformed into a completely non-human life form that no longer has anythign in common with humankind, otehr than the humanoid appearance, and even that appearance is just one of several that the vampire can select at will. As a result, the original human attributes and alignmnent are meaningless, entirely new attributes are rolled, an evil alignment selected, and a handful of skills retained..."

This indicates that no matter what the original race was, the new race is that of Vampire. Old abilities are lost, and new ones are gained.
If a human is no longer a human once turned, then a changeling would no longer be a changeling once turned.

[Killer Cyborg]

Greetings and Salutations. And well, though as much as I hate to admit I was wrong (and I still say it was a valid point), I have to say that AzathothXy was right as far as the vampire issue. For those that say that a Changeling would lose their shape changing ability, check out Old Ones on page 199, the final vampire detailed. Though this is a master and you may argue a special case, the precedence is still set.

Page 187, actually.
Klak Bathamee
He's a changeling vampire, and he retains his changeling ability to shapechange.

This certainly shows that it was possible in first edition PFRPG, but there may have been some changes in the vampire rules since then.
Anybody have any old PFRPG books that detail the old stats on vampires?

[Prysus]

Apologies for not stating more clearly. Though yes indeed it is page 187 in the original edition, it is page 199 in the Second Edition of the Old Ones.

[Killer Cyborg]

Apologies for not stating more clearly. Though yes indeed it is page 187 in the original edition, it is page 199 in the Second Edition of the Old Ones.

Ah.
That clears that up.

[Library Ogre]

In the 1st edition of PF, Vampires weren't terribly developed, IIRC. They were mentioned as being demons, and had a slew of abilities, but nothing like the detail you get today.

[Killer Cyborg]

In the 1st edition of PF, Vampires weren't terribly developed, IIRC. They were mentioned as being demons, and had a slew of abilities, but nothing like the detail you get today.

Then I would assume that a changeling vampire would lose his powers under the new vampire rules. The character in Old Ones is an anomaly.

[Library Ogre]

In the 1st edition of PF, Vampires weren't terribly developed, IIRC. They were mentioned as being demons, and had a slew of abilities, but nothing like the detail you get today.

Then I would assume that a changeling vampire would lose his powers under the new vampire rules. The character in Old Ones is an anomaly.

Since it's a conversion of a 1st edition book, it seem likely. Looking at the character in question, I would simply remove the reference to him being a changeling; it's a single line of text in what is otherwise an elven vampire.

[Sentinel]

Lycanthropy also exists as a Major Super-Ability in HUII.

[The Beast]

If they're creatures of magic why don't they become MDC creatures on Rifts Earth?

[Sentinel]

If they're creatures of magic why don't they become MDC creatures on Rifts Earth?

Some do like Dragons.
Some do not, like vampires and werewolves. But, these two are impervious to MD weapons that do not incorporate their specific weaknesses (silver for both; water, wood, for the vampire).

[Goliath Strongarm]

Changelings are creatures of magic, which is the same as being supernatural

Umm... no....

[The Beast]

If they're creatures of magic why don't they become MDC creatures on Rifts Earth?

Some do like Dragons.
Some do not, like vampires and werewolves. But, these two are impervious to MD weapons that do not incorporate their specific weaknesses (silver for both; water, wood, for the vampire).

And changelings don't have any sort of advantages in that regard (baring any OCC powers).

And looking at the conversion book there is nothing that indicates they are creatures of magic. Does the new one have any changes to them in it? Also if someone has the old PFRPG, does it say they're creatures of magic in that?

[Astroconch]

If your going to use Changlings as creatures of magic then you would have to use Elves, Dwarves, Goblin, Hob-Goblins, etc. These races were all created by magic, but none are considered creatures of magic like a dragon, gryphon, etc.

[Sentinel]

Changelings are creatures of magic, which is the same as being supernatural

Umm... no....

Ummm..yes.

Creatures of magic are "Unnatural or Supernatural"

Not all "Creatures Of Magic" are "Supernatural Beings", and vice versa. Some can be considered both as well.

[Sentinel]

Creatures of Magic are Supernatural.

Palladium does indeed make a distinction (however poorly defined) between the two.
And some creatures are in fact both.

[The Beast]

Either way changelings shouldn't be either one.

[Library Ogre]

IMO, changelings are neither supernatural nor creatures of magic. They are simply a race whose natural properties are a bit odd for Earth creatures.

[The Beast]

IMO, changelings are neither supernatural nor creatures of magic. They are simply a race whose natural properties are a bit odd for Earth creatures.

And I agree with you. However, someone put in the flavor text of the new description that they are, and yet they are the only creature of magic that don't convert to MDC when on Rifts Earth.

[The Beast]

actually palladium DOES have Lycanthropy as a curse, of which true werewolves and so on are immune to.


and there is a changeling vampire in Island at the edge of the world...
and well a whole lot of changelings who do tings that no other Characters before could do as well

In The Old Ones book, there is a changeling vampire, who has retained his shapechanging abilities. Whether he is an exception rather than the rule is not stated.

I couldn't find either one of these. Can you please provide the page numbers?

[plata_knight]

Just something for you all to consider. The Rifts Vampires book contains several examples of vampires who had other abilities before becoming vampires that are retained once they are vampires. The one example that comes to mind is a mystic. He retained all of his original Psionics, plus some or all of his magic spells. I don't see why special abilities of other base creatures would not still apply.

[Library Ogre]

The changeling vampire is, I believe, on page 199. He's listed as an elven vampire in the statistics, but in the last line of his notes he's outed as a changeling.

[The Beast]

The changeling vampire is, I believe, on page 199. He's listed as an elven vampire in the statistics, but in the last line of his notes he's outed as a changeling.

Don't know how I missed that.

[Library Ogre]

The changeling vampire is, I believe, on page 199. He's listed as an elven vampire in the statistics, but in the last line of his notes he's outed as a changeling.

Don't know how I missed that.

Took me two or three readings to find it.