Time Slip?

[LostOne]

I just now realized that Time Slip didn't make it into Ultimate Edition. Any word as to why?

Anyone know of other spells (or psionics) that are missing?

[Shark_Force]

on the other hand, a number of other spells made it into RUE that didn't make it into the original rifts main book.

[Killer Cyborg]

I just now realized that Time Slip didn't make it into Ultimate Edition. Any word as to why?

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I just now realized that Time Slip didn't make it into Ultimate Edition. Any word as to why?

Anyone know of other spells (or psionics) that are missing?

It says in the begining of the spell list section that the ones that got cut out were not struck from cannon, only removed due to space limits--and that the ones in the Book of Magic ARE still offical Rifts spells.

[LostOne]

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

Really? Seems perfectly clear to me:
Half a melee to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't causing damage to someone. When the spell ends no one else has a clue what you did except for any changes they might observe.

[Killer Cyborg]

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

Really? Seems perfectly clear to me:
Half a melee to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't causing damage to someone. When the spell ends no one else has a clue what you did except for any changes they might observe.

More or less, but read the actual text of the spell.

Time Slip
The invocation momentarily suspends time, enabling the spell caster to slip seven seconds into the future. The mage can move forward seven seconds while all around him are caught in the past. The magic is such that the character can not physically hurt any living creature, but can move about the physical environment, open doors, grab an item, run, etc. The effect will appear to others as if the character disappears for an instant and then suddenly reappears a few seconds later. All around him lose two attacks that melee round, but the mystic retains all of his.

Let's break that down:
1. The spell caster is transported to seven seconds into the future.
2. The mage can move about and do stuff (without anybody seeing him or anything he does)
3. To everybody else, it simply looks like the mage disappears, then reappears.
4. Everybody but the mage loses 2 attacks.

The first and third make it seem as if it's a simple time-travel spell, one that sends the time traveller a mere seven seconds into the future. He disappears, then reappears in the future.
The problem there is that if that's what the spell does, then nobody else should lose attacks.
The effect should be any different than if a flooper floops out for 7 seconds.
He disappears, the action continues around him, then he reappears.
Also, we know from the second part that the mage isn't actually traveling into the future, because if he was then everybody could see him- he'd disappear, reappear and start doing stuff.
There's nothing about traveling into the future that lets you move around while everybody is frozen in time.
And why do people lose 2 attacks?
There's nothing about traveling into the future that would cause that.
There's nothing about disappearing and reappearing that does that.
The spell lasts for 1/2 a melee, so why doesn't it negate half of everybody's attacks (assuming that it would actually cause anybody to lose attacks at all, which isn't the case based on the spell description- except for the one mention of it).

We all seem to get the same impression of the spell- It freezes time, or speeds up the mage to the point where everything else is standing still, and he can act while everybody else is frozen.
But this isn't actually said anywhere in the text.
In fact, it states the opposite- time isn't frozen, the mage moves forward in time.

And, of course, this still doesn't explain why everybody else would lose attacks, instead of the mage gaining extra attacks.

We all play with the spell and all seem to use it roughly the same way, but the description itself doesn't make sense.

[Lenwen]

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

Really? Seems perfectly clear to me:
Half a melee to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't causing damage to someone. When the spell ends no one else has a clue what you did except for any changes they might observe.

So can some one please tell me why other people on this very Palladium board .. thinks Time Slip grants them MORE actions per melee ?

Because it clearly does not. It takes away 2 melee action from those not affected, but it by no means adds attacks/actions to those of the caster ..

So can some one please inform me as to why some posters think Time Slip adds actions/attacks for the caster ?

[Dr. Doom III]

I did a re-write a few years back

Time Slip time for a proper description.

Anyone who has read the description of Time Slip knows that it makes little to no sense. You move forward in time. Yet you can act while time is frozen? People around you see you disappear and reappear 7 seconds later. Yet they cannot act during the 7 seconds?
Time to fix it.

Time Slip
Range: Self
Duration: Half a melee (7.5 seconds)
Saving Throw: Not applicable
P.P.E.: 20

This invocation momentarily removes the caster from the stream of time. Allowing the spell caster to “slip between” the ticks of the clock. The world around is frozen in time from the mage’s perspective but to the mage time flows normally. Giving the mage half a melee to perform any action(s) he/she could normally perform in that time. A mage with 4 attacks per melee would gain two actions or be able to cast one low level spell.
The magic is such that the mage can fully interact with his surroundings but cannot harm anything while time is frozen. This effect is referred to a temporal invulnerability. While frozen they simply cannot be hurt by any means. Spells effecting the mage will also have time pass for them but affecting others or area effect spells will not.
To those surrounding the mage it is as if nothing happened except that the mage may have instantly (from their perspective) shifted position.

[Shark_Force]

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

Really? Seems perfectly clear to me:
Half a melee to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't causing damage to someone. When the spell ends no one else has a clue what you did except for any changes they might observe.

So can some one please tell me why other people on this very Palladium board .. thinks Time Slip grants them MORE actions per melee ?

Because it clearly does not. It takes away 2 melee action from those not affected, but it by no means adds attacks/actions to those of the caster ..

So can some one please inform me as to why some posters think Time Slip adds actions/attacks for the caster ?

because it gives the mage 7 seconds (half a melee) in which the mage can do stuff while nobody else can.

[Lenwen]

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

Really? Seems perfectly clear to me:
Half a melee to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't causing damage to someone. When the spell ends no one else has a clue what you did except for any changes they might observe.

So can some one please tell me why other people on this very Palladium board .. thinks Time Slip grants them MORE actions per melee ?

Because it clearly does not. It takes away 2 melee action from those not affected, but it by no means adds attacks/actions to those of the caster ..

So can some one please inform me as to why some posters think Time Slip adds actions/attacks for the caster ?

because it gives the mage 7 seconds (half a melee) in which the mage can do stuff while nobody else can.

Those 7seconds do not grant more attacks.

It grants 7 seconds. Not More attacks.

Again .. why can not posters on this palladium site understand the difference between the two ?

[Dr. Doom III]

Those 7seconds do not grant more attacks.

It grants 7 seconds. Not More attacks.

Again .. why can not posters on this palladium site understand the difference between the two ?

Because more time equals more things you can do in that time.

[Lenwen]

Those 7seconds do not grant more attacks.

It grants 7 seconds. Not More attacks.

Again .. why can not posters on this palladium site understand the difference between the two ?

Because more time equals more things you can do in that time.

Actually according to the Palladium based rules of actions per melee ..

No it does not ..

[Shark_Force]

Those 7seconds do not grant more attacks.

It grants 7 seconds. Not More attacks.

Again .. why can not posters on this palladium site understand the difference between the two ?

Because more time equals more things you can do in that time.

Actually according to the Palladium based rules of actions per melee ..

No it does not ..

effectively, yes it does. the mage gets half a melee that nobody else gets. his attacks per melee have not increased, but his effective attacks per melee with respect to the melee in which he cast the spell *have* increased. he didn't increase attacks per melee, but he does get more attacks to do something with in that specific melee, which is not significantly different from getting bonus attacks per melee for that one melee only.

[Lenwen]

gets half a melee that nobody else gets. his attacks per melee have not increased, but his effective attacks per melee with respect to the melee in which he cast the spell *have* increased. he didn't increase attacks per melee, but he does get more attacks to do something with in that specific melee, which is not significantly different from getting bonus attacks per melee for that one melee only.

Funny thing is .. none of what you just said is indicated in the spell's description.

All it stats is that other people around you lose 2 actions.

It does not say because of quantum mechanical aspect of the way the spells is set up cupled with the relativistic abilities of any sentient being, including the spacial displacment of known matter from 1 point in time to the other ..

The mage gets more actions/attacks granted threw the spell.

It in fact stats : Everyone else .. loses 2 action/attacks.

Which is not the same as saying the mage gets 1 action/attack.

And to further support my claim an shut down your claim is the spell itself even goes on to say you can not do anything that would negativly hurt/inflict injury to another being.

So in essence .. the Spell makes everyone else lose 2 actions/attacks .. while the mage lose 2 actions casting this very spell which in essense places them all in the same # of actions/attacks dependent upon thier lvls.

The spell is neither a bonas to or a negative for .. the Mage. as either way the mage loses 2 actions casting the spell as it is an everyone else loses 2 actions due to the spells effects ..

[Shark_Force]

ummm... no.

the caster cannot hurt anything, it is true.

however, it does not say "the caster cannot cast armor of ithan on (him/her/it)self". nor does it prevent the casting of any number of other beneficial spells, or moving (in fact it pretty clearly indicates moving is a possibility), or doing any number of other things that *don't* involve harming things. it says you get 7 seconds, which is half a melee. as it does not indicate any restriction on those 7 seconds other than not being able to harm anyone. there is a stat to determine how much you can do given a certain amount of time, and it is attacks per melee. as such, if you are given half a melee, you can do as much as you could do in half a melee; this really shouldn't need any explaining. the only restriction made is that you cannot harm anything, and therefore, the time is otherwise just like normal time for you. so, just like you could cast a spell to heal yourself in normal time, you can cast a spell to heal yourself in time slip time.

[Lenwen]

Caster A has 5 attacks and has two attack/actions left to cast a spell for that melee round.

Player B has 10 actions and 6 actions left for that melee round.

Caster A casts Time slip. (And is now out of actions/attacks for this round) Means he can not do a single thing in the 7 seconds the caster now has ..

While Player B instead of having 6 actions now has 4 actions ..


This is how the spell works.

Not how you are trying to stretch the wording .. (Which is not even there to stretch in the first place)

[Killer Cyborg]

Time Slip
Range: Self
Duration: Half a melee (7.5 seconds)
Saving Throw: Not applicable
P.P.E.: 20

This invocation momentarily removes the caster from the stream of time. Allowing the spell caster to “slip between” the ticks of the clock. The world around is frozen in time from the mage’s perspective but to the mage time flows normally. Giving the mage half a melee to perform any action(s) he/she could normally perform in that time. A mage with 4 attacks per melee would gain two actions or be able to cast one low level spell.
The magic is such that the mage can fully interact with his surroundings but cannot harm anything while time is frozen. This effect is referred to a temporal invulnerability. While frozen they simply cannot be hurt by any means. Spells effecting the mage will also have time pass for them but affecting others or area effect spells will not.
To those surrounding the mage it is as if nothing happened except that the mage may have instantly (from their perspective) shifted position.

Much better.
(Of course, I liked it the first time you posted it too. )

[Lenwen]

Time Slip
Range: Self
Duration: Half a melee (7.5 seconds)
Saving Throw: Not applicable
P.P.E.: 20

This invocation momentarily removes the caster from the stream of time. Allowing the spell caster to “slip between” the ticks of the clock. The world around is frozen in time from the mage’s perspective but to the mage time flows normally. Giving the mage half a melee to perform any action(s) he/she could normally perform in that time. A mage with 4 attacks per melee would gain two actions or be able to cast one low level spell.
The magic is such that the mage can fully interact with his surroundings but cannot harm anything while time is frozen. This effect is referred to a temporal invulnerability. While frozen they simply cannot be hurt by any means. Spells effecting the mage will also have time pass for them but affecting others or area effect spells will not.
To those surrounding the mage it is as if nothing happened except that the mage may have instantly (from their perspective) shifted position.

Much better.
(Of course, I liked it the first time you posted it too. )

I agree this version actually allow's the mage that cast it .. to actually be able to use it according to the law's of Palladiums combat/action criteria ..

Very well done I hope that you do not mind that I myself personally use this version of the spell, as it makes 100% more sense then the actual spell as listed and described ..

[drewkitty ~..~]

maybe it was reclassified as Temporal magic, and thus, because it was not 'Common Magic" anymore, it was dropped from being reprinted in RUE.

I did a re-write a few years back

Time Slip time for a proper description.

That the spell gives the mage some extra time is how I've seen how this spell works from day-1 of playing rifts. That is The Only Rational way to interpret the bad spell description spell.

[Shark_Force]

Caster A has 5 attacks and has two attack/actions left to cast a spell for that melee round.

Player B has 10 actions and 6 actions left for that melee round.

Caster A casts Time slip. (And is now out of actions/attacks for this round) Means he can not do a single thing in the 7 seconds the caster now has ..

While Player B instead of having 6 actions now has 4 actions ..


This is how the spell works.

Not how you are trying to stretch the wording .. (Which is not even there to stretch in the first place)

Q. does the mage get time to do stuff?

A. yes. 7 seconds.

Q. are there restrictions on what 'stuff' the mage can do?

A. yes. nothing that causes damage. no other limitations

Q. is there a method for determining how much a character can perfom, something relating actions to time?

A. yes. it is attacks per melee.

conclusion: it can be determined how much a mage can do during a time slip by comparing their attacks per unit time to the amount of time the mage has. for simplicity's sake, it's easiest to just take their attacks per melee, and reduce it to half, since that is a close approximation of what you would get anyways unless you start getting into very large numbers.

but hey, if you want to get into an argument about how RAW works (or rather, doesn't work) without interpretation, then i can do that. tell me, what effects occur when a character dies? remember, you're trying to argue for following only the letter of the law, so i'm going to need a quote, including book title and page number. simply informing me that it's obvious what happens when a person dies is not sufficient to demonstrate that the rules can be used without applying common sense.

[cchopps]

I just now realized that Time Slip didn't make it into Ultimate Edition. Any word as to why?

Anyone know of other spells (or psionics) that are missing?

It is listed in my RUE Gold on page 227 between Time Hole and Tongues.

C. Chopps

[Dr. Doom III]

Caster A has 5 attacks and has two attack/actions left to cast a spell for that melee round.

Player B has 10 actions and 6 actions left for that melee round.

Caster A casts Time slip. (And is now out of actions/attacks for this round) Means he can not do a single thing in the 7 seconds the caster now has ..

While Player B instead of having 6 actions now has 4 actions ..


This is how the spell works.

Not how you are trying to stretch the wording .. (Which is not even there to stretch in the first place)

And that doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

[Lenwen]

Caster A has 5 attacks and has two attack/actions left to cast a spell for that melee round.

Player B has 10 actions and 6 actions left for that melee round.

Caster A casts Time slip. (And is now out of actions/attacks for this round) Means he can not do a single thing in the 7 seconds the caster now has ..

While Player B instead of having 6 actions now has 4 actions ..


This is how the spell works.

Not how you are trying to stretch the wording .. (Which is not even there to stretch in the first place)

Q. does the mage get time to do stuff?

A. yes. 7 seconds.

Q. are there restrictions on what 'stuff' the mage can do?

A. yes. nothing that causes damage. no other limitations

Right here is where your interpretation of the spell breaks down. The other Limitation of this spell is the Caster Absolutly must have actions left, to do as they please within the 7 seconds ..

If they do not have any actions left after casting this spell .. They can not do anything .. According to the Palladium's written combat rules.

This is the part your trying to get around .. and canonly speaking you absolutly can not get around this very fact.

The simply proof is .. show me in the spells description .. where it grants .. -- > ADDITIONAL < -- .. Actions ..

And then I will ceed the point.

If you can not verbatium show me a quote from anything that dictates such and ability linked directly to Time Slip ..

I rest my case.

[Shark_Force]

it gives you additional time. the character already has X actions per Y time. it doesn't have to give bonus actions per melee, it gives bonus 1/2 melees instead. since the spell explicitly allows the caster to do something during that 1/2 melee, it must give them attacks... after all, if you have no attacks per melee, you cannot do anything in that melee..

and again, mr "i'm going to claim that the rules are intended to be used without making any obvious leaps of common sense", show me, including book and page number, where the effects of being dead are defined. if you want me to accept that the rules are intended to be used explicitly as they read, show me that it can even work.

[Lenwen]

it gives you additional time. it must give them attacks...

I highlighted the two most important parts of your last post.

Giving more time .. does in fact not translate into .. Givin more attacks/actions ..

I am still waiting for you to quote to me where in the spell that the Spell implicitly states ..

"Grants X amounts of actions/attacks per melee to the caster"

[Shark_Force]

I am still waiting for you to quote to me where in the spell that the Spell implicitly states ..

where in the books does it implicitly state that being dead has any negative impact on the character? where does it tell you that you can't just get up and walk around, have a chat with your best buddy, go eat dinner at a fancy restaurant, go take a nap, and then spend all night at a rave?

should we therefore assume that unless it explicitly tells us what being dead does that being dead has no impact on the character? that it doesn't prevent them from taking actions as usual?

your argument has no foundation. go find a better one.

[Lenwen]

your argument has no foundation. go find a better one.

Magic Adrenal Rush - Implicitly dictates .. +2 actions for the duration of the magic.

Speed Weapon - Implicitly dictates .. Doubles the attack/actions for the duration of the magic (with this weapon)

Fleet Feet - Implicitly dictates .. Doubles the attacks/actions for the duration of the magic.

All 3 Spells inplicitly dictate .. the addition of melee actions for X amount of time.

Time Slip does not. Because it in fact does not grant more actions/attacks per melee .. it in fact grants 7 more seconds thats it .

Bench mark spells which clearly support my side of the debat.. and you tell me my arguement has no foundation ?

Show me 1 spell in all of Palladium that gives you something .. that is not listed in the Spells description please ..

I showed you my work.. how bout you show me yours ?

This ought to be hilarious !!

[cchopps]

Hopefully it's because they realized that the spell made no sense as written, and that it needed a serious rewrite.

Really? Seems perfectly clear to me:
Half a melee to do whatever you want, as long as it isn't causing damage to someone. When the spell ends no one else has a clue what you did except for any changes they might observe.

So can some one please tell me why other people on this very Palladium board .. thinks Time Slip grants them MORE actions per melee ?

Because it clearly does not. It takes away 2 melee action from those not affected, but it by no means adds attacks/actions to those of the caster ..

So can some one please inform me as to why some posters think Time Slip adds actions/attacks for the caster ?

because it gives the mage 7 seconds (half a melee) in which the mage can do stuff while nobody else can.

Those 7seconds do not grant more attacks.

It grants 7 seconds. Not More attacks.

Again .. why can not posters on this palladium site understand the difference between the two ?

My thought is that this wording was back from RMB when casting a spell didn't take an attack. In RMB you could cast 2 low level spells per 15 seconds (completely unrelated to attacks) and so it was reasonable for a GM to allow a player to cast 1 low level spell with those free 7 seconds as long as it wasn't an "attack" spell.

I'd also like to point out that the description talks about moving around during time slip and we all know how there really are no good rules in the books for how Speed/#ofattacks/and the 15 second round interact. I'd say that moving (covering distance) doesn't count as an "attack" especially under RMB.

I think the real problem is that "attacks" got a bit of a redefine in RUE but we are stuck with the RMB/BoM write-up of time slip.

C. Chopps

[Shark_Force]

it doesn't give them something that isn't specifically stated.

it gives them 7 seconds. during which they are not restricted from taking actions, provided those actions do not cause any harm.

seriously. your argument is pathetic. if i didn't know you already as someone who will just refuse to accept a point no matter how much evidence is given, i'd assume you were just trolling by now. in any event, i'm done with this conversation until you provide some proof that you don't get actions based on time. (note: 1 melee is a defined amount of time)

[Lenwen]

it gives them 7 seconds. during which they are not restricted from taking actions, provided those actions do not cause any harm.

That is correct, IF they have actions left to take .. Otherwise they get no actions durring the extra 7 seconds.

seriously. your argument is pathetic.

I couldent help but notice .. as I quoted spells that showed how wrong you are in this matter ..

All you do is insult me .. instead of trying to show me why Time Slip would be able to grant extra attacks/actions .. when clearly if it did .. It would say that very thing.

And I still find it funny how you think Granting 7 extra seconds in time .. is the same as giving extra attacks ..

Guess in your games .. Temporal Magic is unstoppable...

i'd assume you were just trolling by now.

You know what they say about that word assume .. and as far as trolling .. tossing insults as opposed to actually debating with me .. is as far as one needs to go to see which of us are in fact the troll ..

You still have yet to show me where in the spells description (Book/pg#) where it flat out stats it grants X amount of actions for the duration of the 7seconds ...

in any event, i'm done with this conversation until you provide some proof that you don't get actions based on time. (note: 1 melee is a defined amount of time)

Only in your world does time equate to additional attacks/actions .. where none are stated to be ..

[Dr. Doom III]

it gives you additional time. it must give them attacks...

I highlighted the two most important parts of your last post.

Giving more time .. does in fact not translate into .. Givin more attacks/actions ..

I am still waiting for you to quote to me where in the spell that the Spell implicitly states ..

"Grants X amounts of actions/attacks per melee to the caster"

It grants a half a melee. The attacks that come with it are a given.

[Lenwen]

It grants a half a melee. The attacks that come with it are a given.

I pose to you the same question that I pose to the other poster.

1) - Why do other spells directly detail the very number of attacks they grant when thier given that exact power ?

2) - Why does Time Slip not directly state it grants X Amounts of actions/attacks ?

[cchopps]

It grants a half a melee. The attacks that come with it are a given.

I pose to you the same question that I pose to the other poster.

1) - Why do other spells directly detail the very number of attacks they grant when thier given that exact power ?

2) - Why does Time Slip not directly state it grants X Amounts of actions/attacks ?

In RMB attack meant attack. In RUE attack means "action." Since Time Slip doesn't allow you to cause damage why would it, written under RMB, give extra attacks?

I think that is exactly why.

C. Chopps

[Balabanto]

your argument has no foundation. go find a better one.

Magic Adrenal Rush - Implicitly dictates .. +2 actions for the duration of the magic.

Speed Weapon - Implicitly dictates .. Doubles the attack/actions for the duration of the magic (with this weapon)

Fleet Feet - Implicitly dictates .. Doubles the attacks/actions for the duration of the magic.

All 3 Spells inplicitly dictate .. the addition of melee actions for X amount of time.

Time Slip does not. Because it in fact does not grant more actions/attacks per melee .. it in fact grants 7 more seconds thats it .

Bench mark spells which clearly support my side of the debat.. and you tell me my arguement has no foundation ?

Show me 1 spell in all of Palladium that gives you something .. that is not listed in the Spells description please ..

I showed you my work.. how bout you show me yours ?

This ought to be hilarious !!

All right. Let's try it your way.

Roarshack, an Ice Dragon Hatchling who is only three and a half years old, is locked in battle with his adventuring group, Alistair Duncson and his council, and Karl Prosek, Joseph Prosek, and two Death's Head transports. Roarshack casts Time Slip! 93 people lose two actions!

Everyone loses two actions? Right?

Eight hundred Plus Miles Away, Reggie, a Psi-Tech from Lazlo and his group of adventurers are facing off against a Cro Demon mage and his legion of psynetic crazies and Brodkil.

Everyone loses two actions, right?

How many people constitute everyone? How many combats and places in the world does this affect? Your interpretation is unreasonable because the spell is so poorly written as to not be inclusive as to who is and is not affected by the spell. If the spell affects YOU, people outside of you should not be suffering penalties.

[Lenwen]

your argument has no foundation. go find a better one.

Magic Adrenal Rush - Implicitly dictates .. +2 actions for the duration of the magic.

Speed Weapon - Implicitly dictates .. Doubles the attack/actions for the duration of the magic (with this weapon)

Fleet Feet - Implicitly dictates .. Doubles the attacks/actions for the duration of the magic.

All 3 Spells inplicitly dictate .. the addition of melee actions for X amount of time.

Time Slip does not. Because it in fact does not grant more actions/attacks per melee .. it in fact grants 7 more seconds thats it .

Bench mark spells which clearly support my side of the debat.. and you tell me my arguement has no foundation ?

Show me 1 spell in all of Palladium that gives you something .. that is not listed in the Spells description please ..

I showed you my work.. how bout you show me yours ?

This ought to be hilarious !!

All right. Let's try it your way.

Roarshack, an Ice Dragon Hatchling who is only three and a half years old, is locked in battle with his adventuring group, Alistair Duncson and his council, and Karl Prosek, Joseph Prosek, and two Death's Head transports. Roarshack casts Time Slip! 93 people lose two actions!

Everyone loses two actions? Right?

Eight hundred Plus Miles Away, Reggie, a Psi-Tech from Lazlo and his group of adventurers are facing off against a Cro Demon mage and his legion of psynetic crazies and Brodkil.

Everyone loses two actions, right?

How many people constitute everyone? How many combats and places in the world does this affect? Your interpretation is unreasonable because the spell is so poorly written as to not be inclusive as to who is and is not affected by the spell. If the spell affects YOU, people outside of you should not be suffering penalties.

Since there is no definitive answer for that .. I can not answer it ..

Just like there is no definitive answer in anywhere .. in the spells entire description that says it gives another 7 seconds worth of actions to the caster.

It only imparts 7 extra seconds to the caster.

Period.

[Balabanto]

The problem is, that bleeps the world up. Let's say I have eight different groups in the same world. And I do!!!!

I CANNOT run the spell this way. It requires a level of bookkeeping that is truly insane and not worth it.

Okay, at 6:23 PM on June 14th, 109 PA, Boshack Finklebotter casts Time Slip.

Is anyone in combat on the planet right now? All righty! They all lose two actions!

This interpretation is too broad, and generally screwy. It's easier to gain two actions inside the slip than it is to figure out some justification for a 7th level spell being so powerful that everyone on Earth loses two actions.

[Lenwen]

1) - This interpretation is too broad, and generally screwy.

2) - It's easier to gain two actions inside the slip

than it is to figure out some justification for a 7th level spell being so powerful that everyone on Earth loses two actions.

I totally agree with part one. Not with part 2 .. and for the 3rd part .. merely look at other 7th lvl spells ..

Remember range is one of the biggest weakness's for magic ..

There is no spell lvl 7 in the known megaverse that can effect an entire planet .. let alone on the scale your trying to imply .

7th lvl Power Bolt range would be a GREAT way to start off for range .. an twink it up or down to what you need .

This spell is totally broken an is in VAST .. need of a canon rewrite.

But by the way it is written .. it does not give +X amount of extra Attacks to the Mage who casts it .. all it does is grant +7 extra seconds ..

If you have enough attacks to cast the spell (it is lvl 6 which means it takes 2 actions to cast) and still have actions AFTER the cast thats fine an dandy ..

But if you do not have any actions after you cast Time Slip .. thats another can of worms all together ..

Especially if you are trying to say it canonly "Grants" extra attacks .. (Which it does not)

[Crazy Lou]

Lewen, if it helps to see why people give half a melee worth of actions to the caster here's another way of why they're doing that: Time is frozen for everyone except the caster for 7 seconds. The usual combat rules technically don't apply since the world is frozen. There is no combat because the caster can't do anything that's damaging, and the whole world is frozen. The mage has essentially "turned off" the combat mode of the game for 7 seconds, and has those seconds to do whatever he wants. However, for bookkeeping purposes, the GM must know how much the caster would be able to do in 7 seconds (which is a really short time if you think about it). Because the combat rules can tell the GM how much the caster can do per second (in terms of actions as a fraction of a 15 second melee), the GM borrows that mechanic as a way of keeping track of how much the caster does/can do before the spell ends.

[Lenwen]

Lewen, if it helps to see why people give half a melee worth of actions to the caster here's another way of why they're doing that: Time is frozen for everyone except the caster for 7 seconds. The usual combat rules technically don't apply since the world is frozen. There is no combat because the caster can't do anything that's damaging, and the whole world is frozen. The mage has essentially "turned off" the combat mode of the game for 7 seconds, and has those seconds to do whatever he wants. However, for bookkeeping purposes, the GM must know how much the caster would be able to do in 7 seconds (which is a really short time if you think about it). Because the combat rules can tell the GM how much the caster can do per second (in terms of actions as a fraction of a 15 second melee), the GM borrows that mechanic as a way of keeping track of how much the caster does/can do before the spell ends.

I understand the concept of why other posters "Think" its ok to give the caster additional actions/attacks due to the extra 7 seconds .. the spell gives you.

But .. assuming it grants more actions with out the spell actually saying just that .. are reading more into the spell then what is actually stated as being inside the actual spells description.

That does not mean I do not understand the concept. Merely show's that in the spells description additional attacks/actions are not granted threw the spell itself .. only additional time .. 7 seconds to be exact.

Either until the spell is modified .. or explained flat out by KS himself ..

The spell does not grant additional actions/attacks for the 7 seconds it grants .. it only grants the 7 seconds to do with what actions you still have left .. Canonly speaking.

[Crazy Lou]

yeah, it's technically a house rule, it's just a house rule that's been implemented b/c that sort of effect makes more sense based on some of the description.

I'd probably just doublethink and do what the spell says too rather than trying to make it actually make sense, but I don't know as I've never had a game with a character who has that spell. So I dunno.

[Lenwen]

yeah, it's technically a house rule, it's just a house rule that's been implemented b/c that sort of effect makes more sense based on some of the description.

Where in all the books as it been implimented ?

[Crazy Lou]

yeah, it's technically a house rule, it's just a house rule that's been implemented b/c that sort of effect makes more sense based on some of the description.

Where in all the books as it been implimented ?

Um... I was agreeing with you? I called it a house rule because the spell as written is somewhat contradictory. It's not explicitly stated as working that way anywhere. That was my point in my last post. Implemented BY GMs.

The problem is that since it's somewhat contradictory, you have to so some interpretation or the spell doesn't make sense. That's why the spell has been being discussed this much, and why your strictly literal interpretation of the spell was the subject of some debate, since the spell is conflicting in the explanation of its effects.

[Lenwen]

yeah, it's technically a house rule, it's just a house rule that's been implemented b/c that sort of effect makes more sense based on some of the description.

Where in all the books as it been implimented ?

Um... I was agreeing with you? I called it a house rule because the spell as written is somewhat contradictory. It's not explicitly stated as working that way anywhere. That was my point in my last post. Implemented BY GMs.

The problem is that since it's somewhat contradictory, you have to so some interpretation or the spell doesn't make sense. That's why the spell has been being discussed this much, and why your strictly literal interpretation of the spell was the subject of some debate, since the spell is conflicting in the explanation of its effects.

Agreed.

I asked for where it was implimented because I thought perhaps you had a book that I did not, which could have helped out with this whole thing.

With spells .. I tend to take a very litteraly view for them. If the spell does not say it adds something .. then in my games according to the spell's description .. it does not add anything not found within its description.

This spell would fall into that catagory. In my world an my point of view, tho I no doubt understand why other people might make the leap from adding time to mean added actions/attacks.

[Dr. Doom III]

It grants a half a melee. The attacks that come with it are a given.

I pose to you the same question that I pose to the other poster.

1) - Why do other spells directly detail the very number of attacks they grant when thier given that exact power ?

2) - Why does Time Slip not directly state it grants X Amounts of actions/attacks ?

Their descriptions aren't messed up and since it grants time I assume they, apparently wrongly figured common sense would be applied. Also since time is granted and characters have a varying amount of attacks granting a set number of attacks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Lenwen]

Their descriptions aren't messed up and since it grants time I assume they, apparently wrongly figured common sense would be applied.

So why would this be thee only spell in all of every spell ever mentioned that is "supposed" to add attacks .. yet .. does not even give 1 description of doing just that ?

I've already given 3 spells which do just that outside of doing other things ..

So your arguement here makes no sense ..

Also since time is granted and characters have a varying amount of attacks granting a set number of attacks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

Agreed giving a set amount of extra attacks would not make sense .. but granting Double or half the Caster's number of attacks in half the time .. would ..

Yet here again .. this is not stated as the case in the spell .. because the spell does not impart new attacks. The spell imparts 7 extra seconds ..

Better hope you cast magical adrenal rush (+2 actions/attacks per melee) .. or perhaps .. Fleet Feet (doubles your actions/attacks per melee)

Before you cast Time slip ..

Or at least have actions left to be able to do anything in the time slip +7 seconds the magic gives you.

[Balabanto]

lol, we converted the spell to this:

Time Slip
Range: Self
Duration: Half a melee (7.5 seconds)
Saving Throw: Not applicable
P.P.E.: 20

Everyone but you is frozen in time and loses 2 attacks. Immediately gain and take 7 seconds worth of actions. You cant hurt anybody mkay?


You really cant play word games with the palladium magic system. You just end up with frustration and failure.

I don't like that. It makes a TW Time Slip Item the most powerful thing in the game. Spend however much PPE and prep yourself up, everyone else is action denied every single action they have, take your remaining actions.

We converted the spell to this:

Time Slip
Range: Self
Duration: 2 Melee Actions
Saving Throw: None
PPE: 20

You gain two actions immediately. You may not take any actions that cause harm to another. No one else perceives what you do during the Time Slipped period, as you exist outside of time. You may not use Time Slip during a Time Slip.

[Lenwen]

So then the answer begs to be asked ..

What happens if your PC tried to do something that injured another being within the 7seconds ?

[Crazy Lou]

There's another spell (I think it was a spell of legend?) that's kinda like this IIRC and the way it handles it is any action that would cause harm to anyone ends the spell the instant the caster begins the thought process of initiating that damaging action, which would mean that whoever's being targeted would be "unfrozen" before the attack initiated and would have full opportunity to detect the attack and defend himself. I'd say that's what I'd have happen if you tried to break that rule for Time Slip too

[Dr. Doom III]

Their descriptions aren't messed up and since it grants time I assume they, apparently wrongly figured common sense would be applied.

So why would this be thee only spell in all of every spell ever mentioned that is "supposed" to add attacks .. yet .. does not even give 1 description of doing just that ?

I've already given 3 spells which do just that outside of doing other things ..

So your arguement here makes no sense ..

Also since time is granted and characters have a varying amount of attacks granting a set number of attacks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

Agreed giving a set amount of extra attacks would not make sense .. but granting Double or half the Caster's number of attacks in half the time .. would ..

Yet here again .. this is not stated as the case in the spell .. because the spell does not impart new attacks. The spell imparts 7 extra seconds ..

Better hope you cast magical adrenal rush (+2 actions/attacks per melee) .. or perhaps .. Fleet Feet (doubles your actions/attacks per melee)

Before you cast Time slip ..

Or at least have actions left to be able to do anything in the time slip +7 seconds the magic gives you.

BECAUSE IT GIVES TIME!
The other examples you give do not give extra time. They speed you up. Time slip does not make you faster it just gives you more time. Time in which you can do stuff. How many things you can do in a Palladium game is given in attacks per melee. The more melees the more attacks. 1/2 more of a melee is 1/2 more attacks. It's basic math or in Palladium Math: Basic.

[Dr. Doom III]

So then the answer begs to be asked ..

What happens if your PC tried to do something that injured another being within the 7seconds ?

Nothing happens. They are frozen in time and are unaffected by anything you try to do to them.