Should the Jaeger Rotary Missile Drum impose penalties?

[Mlp7029]

The Triax book has 4 interchangeable shoulder mounted weapons for the Jaeger. Three have movement and combat penalties but the Rotary Missile Drum drops not. I am of mixed thoughts on whether the lack of penalties was an oversight or left off on purpose. Your thoughts? The missile drum looks bigger the particle beam which has penalties.

[taalismn]

The missile drum looks lower in profile and more evenly distributed mass-wise across the shoulders, so it may have a lower center of gravity than the other weapons, so I'm going with a tepid 'no'.

[ShadowLogan]

The Triax book has 4 interchangeable shoulder mounted weapons for the Jaeger. Three have movement and combat penalties but the Rotary Missile Drum drops not. I am of mixed thoughts on whether the lack of penalties was an oversight or left off on purpose. Your thoughts? The missile drum looks bigger the particle beam which has penalties.

Just to be clear you're talking about the stuff in WB5 pg57-60 (weapon options for the unit). Technically 2 of them (TX-862FC/843P) have movement/combat penalties and 2 do not (unless that changed post 2nd printing, TX-884I/871MM).

I can certainly see applying a penalty to movement speed. That should apply to the -884I/871MM as they both have an overall mass of 6tons (ie fully loaded), much more than the 3-4.5tons of the -843P/862FC. So that alone IMHO would justify a movement penalty (never mind they are all to heavy for the unit to lift/carry).

I'm not sure about the combat bonuses penalty (25-50%) as the reduction in many cases could result in factional values, and depending on how you round it could negate the penalty or exaggerate it (ex, if a +2 bonus is reduced by 25% that is +1.5 bonus, round up to 2 and there is no actual penalty, round down an the penalty's effectiveness jumps to being the same as a 50% penalty). Some of this can also depend on where/when the penalty is applies to the bonuses (Total vs RC:B/E+unit).

If the 4.5tons imposes a 50% penalty (vs 3 tons at 25%), then the penalty for 6 tons is going to be even higher IMHO.

[Mlp7029]

The Triax book has 4 interchangeable shoulder mounted weapons for the Jaeger. Three have movement and combat penalties but the Rotary Missile Drum drops not. I am of mixed thoughts on whether the lack of penalties was an oversight or left off on purpose. Your thoughts? The missile drum looks bigger the particle beam which has penalties.

Just to be clear you're talking about the stuff in WB5 pg57-60 (weapon options for the unit). Technically 2 of them (TX-862FC/843P) have movement/combat penalties and 2 do not (unless that changed post 2nd printing, TX-884I/871MM).

I can certainly see applying a penalty to movement speed. That should apply to the -884I/871MM as they both have an overall mass of 6tons (ie fully loaded), much more than the 3-4.5tons of the -843P/862FC. So that alone IMHO would justify a movement penalty (never mind they are all to heavy for the unit to lift/carry).

I'm not sure about the combat bonuses penalty (25-50%) as the reduction in many cases could result in factional values, and depending on how you round it could negate the penalty or exaggerate it (ex, if a +2 bonus is reduced by 25% that is +1.5 bonus, round up to 2 and there is no actual penalty, round down an the penalty's effectiveness jumps to being the same as a 50% penalty). Some of this can also depend on where/when the penalty is applies to the bonuses (Total vs RC:B/E+unit).

If the 4.5tons imposes a 50% penalty (vs 3 tons at 25%), then the penalty for 6 tons is going to be even higher IMHO.

You are correct only two have penalties. Makes even less sense to me now that the heaviest weapon has no penalty.

[Warshield73]

You are corrupt only two have penalties. Makes even lesssense to me now that the heaviest weapon has no penalty.

Stats in most Rifts, and to be fair in lots of games, are very inconsistent. To me the weight is part of it, the other is the profile and center of balance it provides. In my games I looked at the DV-40 HK Drone, WB 5 pg. 87-89. It can carry the p-beam and the ion with MRML. The p-beam has the same 25% penalty that the Jaeger has but the Ion/MRML has a 50% penalty like the flak cannon. So I just assumed that is correct and leaving it out in the Jaeger description was an error.

Not perfect and the weight of the systems still seems off but the SRML are so low profile that it may be easier to run at full speed.

[Mlp7029]

You are corrupt only two have penalties. Makes even lesssense to me now that the heaviest weapon has no penalty.

Stats in most Rifts, and to be fair in lots of games, are very inconsistent. To me the weight is part of it, the other is the profile and center of balance it provides. In my games I looked at the DV-40 HK Drone, WB 5 pg. 87-89. It can carry the p-beam and the ion with MRML. The p-beam has the same 25% penalty that the Jaeger has but the Ion/MRML has a 50% penalty like the flak cannon. So I just assumed that is correct and leaving it out in the Jaeger description was an error.

Not perfect and the weight of the systems still seems off but the SRML are so low profile that it may be easier to run at full speed.

Thanks for bringing up the DV-40 HK Drone. Interesting the p-beam has the exact same penalties as the Jaeger but the Ion/MRML has the same movement penalty as the Jaeger but no combat bonuses penalty like the Jaeger. I am going to apply the 50% speed and combat stats penalty to the Ion/MRML for sure. Still thinking about whether the rotary missile drum should have the 25% penalties more from a game balance perspective. If the rotary missile drum has no penalties why wouldn’t the NGR equip every Jaeger with a rotary missile drum as standard load out unless one of the other three weapon systems is substituted. A Jaeger with a rotary missile drum should be able to kill a lot more gargoyles than one without the drum. I am leaning towards a 50% speed penalty for the rotary drum because it weighs as much as the other types with a 50% speed penalty but only a 25% combat bonuses because the rotary looks like it would be more balanced.

[Warshield73]

You are corrupt only two have penalties. Makes even lesssense to me now that the heaviest weapon has no penalty.

Stats in most Rifts, and to be fair in lots of games, are very inconsistent. To me the weight is part of it, the other is the profile and center of balance it provides. In my games I looked at the DV-40 HK Drone, WB 5 pg. 87-89. It can carry the p-beam and the ion with MRML. The p-beam has the same 25% penalty that the Jaeger has but the Ion/MRML has a 50% penalty like the flak cannon. So I just assumed that is correct and leaving it out in the Jaeger description was an error.

Not perfect and the weight of the systems still seems off but the SRML are so low profile that it may be easier to run at full speed.

Thanks for bringing up the DV-40 HK Drone. Interesting the p-beam has the exact same penalties as the Jaeger but the Ion/MRML has the same movement penalty as the Jaeger but no combat bonuses penalty like the Jaeger. I am going to apply the 50% speed and combat stats penalty to the Ion/MRML for sure. Still thinking about whether the rotary missile drum should have the 25% penalties more from a game balance perspective. If the rotary missile drum has no penalties why wouldn’t the NGR equip every Jaeger with a rotary missile drum as standard load out unless one of the other three weapon systems is substituted. A Jaeger with a rotary missile drum should be able to kill a lot more gargoyles than one without the drum. I am leaning towards a 50% speed penalty for the rotary drum because it weighs as much as the other types with a 50% speed penalty but only a 25% combat bonuses because the rotary looks like it would be more balanced.

The NGR is not going to give every Jaeger an SRML for 2 reasons. One is the cost, not just in launcher but in missiles. Second is a Jaeger with a pack cannot be dropped from things like a dragonfly jet or they would be fewer in number in other transports.

As for penalty I would not go higher than 25%. I personally give no penalty but that is probably too generous but my reason was compactness and profile. If you think about hiking with a pack weight is not nearly as important as how you are supporting it on your hips and shoulders. the SRML is very compact and centered so moving at speed with it shouldn't be as difficult as it is with long barreled weapons like the other three.

Just how I rationalize it but it really doesn't matter much. The slowest Jaeger is still moving at about 70 MPH but to me it is combat bonuses penalty. 50% is far worse for a juicer than it is for the average soldier so I have said it is 25% or 50% of the robot combat bonuses only, not the pilot's additional bonuses. So if you look at the bonuses on page 60 I reduce those numbers by 25% to 50%. But I do this with everything in PB. if it says a percentage penalty to combat bonuses or other things I convert it to a static number that is the same for everyone.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If I was being a meany GM I would impos ALL the penilties of the other weapon moduals on the one you're talking about.
As such answer A.

If I was being a lazy GM I'd go with answer B.

[Mlp7029]

You are corrupt only two have penalties. Makes even lesssense to me now that the heaviest weapon has no penalty.

Stats in most Rifts, and to be fair in lots of games, are very inconsistent. To me the weight is part of it, the other is the profile and center of balance it provides. In my games I looked at the DV-40 HK Drone, WB 5 pg. 87-89. It can carry the p-beam and the ion with MRML. The p-beam has the same 25% penalty that the Jaeger has but the Ion/MRML has a 50% penalty like the flak cannon. So I just assumed that is correct and leaving it out in the Jaeger description was an error.

Not perfect and the weight of the systems still seems off but the SRML are so low profile that it may be easier to run at full speed.

Thanks for bringing up the DV-40 HK Drone. Interesting the p-beam has the exact same penalties as the Jaeger but the Ion/MRML has the same movement penalty as the Jaeger but no combat bonuses penalty like the Jaeger. I am going to apply the 50% speed and combat stats penalty to the Ion/MRML for sure. Still thinking about whether the rotary missile drum should have the 25% penalties more from a game balance perspective. If the rotary missile drum has no penalties why wouldn’t the NGR equip every Jaeger with a rotary missile drum as standard load out unless one of the other three weapon systems is substituted. A Jaeger with a rotary missile drum should be able to kill a lot more gargoyles than one without the drum. I am leaning towards a 50% speed penalty for the rotary drum because it weighs as much as the other types with a 50% speed penalty but only a 25% combat bonuses because the rotary looks like it would be more balanced.

The NGR is not going to give every Jaeger an SRML for 2 reasons. One is the cost, not just in launcher but in missiles. Second is a Jaeger with a pack cannot be dropped from things like a dragonfly jet or they would be fewer in number in other transports.

As for penalty I would not go higher than 25%. I personally give no penalty but that is probably too generous but my reason was compactness and profile. If you think about hiking with a pack weight is not nearly as important as how you are supporting it on your hips and shoulders. the SRML is very compact and centered so moving at speed with it shouldn't be as difficult as it is with long barreled weapons like the other three.

Just how I rationalize it but it really doesn't matter much. The slowest Jaeger is still moving at about 70 MPH but to me it is combat bonuses penalty. 50% is far worse for a juicer than it is for the average soldier so I have said it is 25% or 50% of the robot combat bonuses only, not the pilot's additional bonuses. So if you look at the bonuses on page 60 I reduce those numbers by 25% to 50%. But I do this with everything in PB. if it says a percentage penalty to combat bonuses or other things I convert it to a static number that is the same for everyone.

I agree with your point about not being able to drop an equipped Jaeger from the Dragonfly. However I disagree with cost of the missiles being a huge issue. I think the additional expense of the missiles would be offset by reduced repair and replacement costs due to less Jaeger damage in combat. The missiles would be a huge force multiplier for the Jaeger. Granted not every Jaeger would use an interchangeable weapon system on every mission but when they can use one their effectiveness would go way up.

[glitterboy2098]

the inability to airdrop the jeager isn't really a flaw, since the add-on modules are clearly designed more for defensive deployments where airdropping is not part of the deployment. guarding military bases, cities, etc. places where the extra firepower is needed but strategic mobility is less so. or in supporting massed infantry and ground PA.