The Most Powerful Force in Robotech

[Colonel Wolfe]

In peopel's Opions Which Force isn Robotech is the Most powerful across the board (Mecha, Ships, Force Size)? (Please dont use Logic Like "the RDF/REF they have the Script Backing them")

My Vote is for the Masters, Even the Weak Force they sent to Earth was nealrly Enough to Topple the United Earth Forces.

[AzathothXy]

What about Haydon?

[AzathothXy]

I know, but you gotta love cosmic-level powers. I've always been a fan of Galactus, and I see Haydon in a similar light.

[Ice Dragon]

Dolzas Grand Fleet.

[Svartalf]

Dolzas Grand Fleet.

Which is why it got smashed and the earth forces were victorious?

[Hystrix]

I'm gonna say the Robotech Masters at the hieght of there power. Are we factoring in that the Masters had the Zentreadi as part of thier forces? Because if we are then it was the Masters hands down...

[Borast]

Assuming the Zentradei are part of the Master's forces...the Masters.

[Ice Dragon]

Dolzas Grand Fleet.

Which is why it got smashed and the earth forces were victorious?

They were lucky and the grand fleet has a stupid commander.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The Sheild Attack by the SDf-1, the Warp Fold Manuver by Emmerson... Humanity in Robotech has the Tendency to Atempt Insane Manuvers that have the Luck of being Sucessful.

Maybe "Insane Desperation" is one Advantage Humanity has had over the other Forces in the Universe.

[Lt Gargoyle]

The Masters at thier empires peak. but i the end The Invid. The regsis still had the ability to defeat the REF and only left when the humans decided to destroy the planet instead of losing. Not to mention anyone who can create an army with but thought has the advantage hands down.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The invid were powerful against the Puny REF force sent to reclaim the earth. But comparable aginst the Master Mother ships, and the Grand Fleets 6Million ships... the Invid have no real advantage.

The Regis was Able to destroy a Few Ships in the Fleet that Liberates earth, but she didn't harm the SDF-4. She preformed a Desperation Manuver on her way out of the Solar system, She Blew up a Few ships, i Doubt the Entire Fleet thou.

The Invids Real Weakness in no Capital Scale ships, the Mobile Hives and the "Rengent's Ship" are not really on Par with any Ship in the UEF fleet.

A Senario of the Invid vs. the Zent Grand Fleet or Masters Fleet. (or combines, since they techinically the same force)

[Shin Kenshiro]

The Grand Fleet without a doubt. While the Masters indeed had awesome power, the Zentraedi were the power of the Masters. And the only reason the Grand Fleet went down is because it rebelled against itself. The Rain of Death alone proves that no human force could stop the Zents if they indeed had wanted only destruction. While the Invid have massive numbers, the Zentraedi do as well, and a much longer range in fleet ship weaponry. Only on the ground or in close combat do the Invid really pose an equal threat to the Zentraedi.

[AzathothXy]

The Marduk.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Marduk?????
/puke
Thats as bad or Worse than Haydon.

Like MacII... Read the comic [url=http://www.opusgames.com/games/rcd/rcdcomic.html]here

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[Hystrix]

Dolzas Grand Fleet.

Which is why it got smashed and the earth forces were victorious?

Yeah but they were having to play w/ kid gloves though, if they wanted to they could have wipped out the whole planet w/ ease. But like w/ all things there was restrictions. My vote is for Dolza's grand fleet.

Yep. Anyone who says that the RDF/REF/SC where the most powerful forces weren't taking into consideration that fact that Earth was nearly wiped clean of life three times!

[AdmTolval]

Invid forces under the Regis. They never been defeated. And only left Earth because it was contaminated by the Masters.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Never Defeated?

hmmm... Masters Defoilate there Homeworld (Masters 1, invid 0)
The REF is on the Brink of Victory, She Destroyes about half the Fleet on her Escape route. She Made up some reason to Run, not to lose Face infront of the Humans & Stage 5's, she Knew the End was near and her Destruction was inevibatible.

[Colonel Wolfe]

From the best i can see, Either the Destruction of the Invid homeworld, or Rendering it unihabitable is Something implied in the Serise. The invid have some reason to hate the Masters. I think the Master may have done it, heck even Zor him Self may have Done it, Zor's Exact Role in Masters Society and how long ago he Died are not shown in the Serise well...

(off Topic: I Sometimes Wonder if Zor Prime is not a "Clone" of Zor, but a Captured Human Programed with Zor's Brain Pattrens)

[Colonel Wolfe]

In the Japanese Southern Cross, "Zor Prime" is actually just that: a captured human (former security guard, Moon Base Aluce) who was reprogrammed as a high performance bioroid pilot.

.....at least I think that's what I read in the synopsis, I didn't watch the relevant episode...

Yeah, That basically where i got the Idea, They Keep many ideas fomr the Origonal Serise, I think this one is one that I'd liek to see Kept, Sc was the most Edited Portion of the Serise (the 1st epidose of the Sc portion is like 10 or so episodes in to the origonal serise) keepin a few hold overs wouldn't be to much a strech.
In the Origonal Serise, the 3 tube the Master have are Actually un tainted Clones, the Spores fomr the Ruins actually Cause Sterlization that was what the Zor wanted to stop, as well as enslaving humanity )

[Svartalf]

I just don't understand all those votes for the Masters... after all, when they appear on the scene, they are well past their prime and eventually get foiled in taking over ONE minor planet... which basically seals their fate, as this prevents their access to a resource they desperately need.

My vote goes to the REF... humans with high tech, ingenuity, luck, and the diplomatic ability to gather allies as they go in their crusade against the remnants of the Masters and the newly discovered Invid threat.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The Masters Send one Fleet to Earth, I seriously Doubt that was there Entire Force. The Come on the Scene hunting a Legend, "Zor's Battle Fortress"

As for the REF.

The REf's Tech might be on Par with the Masters in Mecha Design, but its Still older then the Tech the SC sent against the Masters Fleet.
as for diplomancy, The Hunters & his Merc crew Make allies of the Sentinels, They Leave the REF, and Join the Sentinels... not really the REF Making Allies at all.
Luck and Ingenuity, Humanity is full of that.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

For that matter, the SC and New Generation substories only focuses on a small section of the scope of things. (Macross seems to pin everyone in the main personalities in the middle of things).

Southern Cross and Mospeada are not substories. Macross is NOT the main thrust of Robotech. If any of the three arcs could be called that, its Southern Cross.

[Lt. Holmes]

I would definitly have to vote for the Invid (in fact, I DID vote for them ), if only because they have the numbers to throw away in any single conflict.

The really nasty thing about the Invid isn't their individual power, because each mecha is relativily weak on their own. The Invid are the most powerful force in the RT Universe because they're willing to sacrafice as many troops as needed to accomplish their goals. In fact, that's the main thrust behind their battle tactics. Outnumber your opponent 10,000 to 1 and you'll win sooner or later.

Take a look at the Second Reclimation Wave at the start of the New Generation. The Invid suffered hideous losses but were still able to absoteluly mop the floor with the REF forces and still had billions of troops (if not more) on the planet below. They were able to hold off the Third Wave of the REF, which was the whole freakin' fleet.

Add to this was their sheer ferocity and total lack of regard for themselves, and you get a fighting force that, if left unchecked, would've been able to spread from Earth and cause God only knows how much havoc across the rest of the Galaxy.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Well, The Invid are a Force to be Reconed with, but the History of the Invid is one of Defeat. The Masters have Wiped the Floor with them in the far history fo there Race. The Zents Never Mention Fighting the Invid, if the Invid was a Huge threat They would have Mentioned them to their New Human Allies. I dont think the Invid were a Threat until after the Zentradi were defeated... or why stay Hidden? The Masters Feared the Invid getting to there Protoculture Matrix before they Could "Liberate" it from the Humans. Once The Spores from the Matrix entered the Atsmophere of Earth, only then were the invid anything more then a Nusenace to the Masters.

Whne the Second Reclimation Wave came to Earth, they were Caught of Guard by the Number of Invid on planet, because they were told fomr the recon they had it was a Small Occupation force. The "Small" occupation force that Wolfe and Crew Fought against may have grown, but Billions of Invid is not Shown by the Animation (an Accrucate count is impossible, but IF there were BILLIONs of the invid... more then 3-6 would show up to take out Scott and crew, as Much of a problem as they were, the Regis would have Eventually sent several thousand to Scour the entire area they were last reported in to remove the Threat)

When the REF's Final Reclimation force Came, the Invid's Old Tatics did nothing to Stop them.... if Over whelming was a great tatic, they should have sent Several thousand Clam shipsd in to Orbit and Take out the REF in orbit.
As for a Lack or Personal Regard, the Regsis was not Willing to let her Children Die in mass when the REF decided to Blow up the Planet. the Regsis's Ancestors were defeated, she Chose to Run away rather than face Massive Defeat (of corse her Escpae Aided by Scott & Crew.. damn Traitors). At least she gets to go be a Plague to the Universe.... w/o a home and protoculture to feed her kids.

[Lt. Holmes]

For clarification, I consider all three portions to be three substories. I left out Macross in the example simply because the SDF storyline seemed to lynchpin the characters into every major battle, while the other two stories gave the impression of a larger scale with many fronts type of conflict rather than all attention focused on a single spot.

And that is why Macross is always my least favourite of the shows Besides, you just CAN'T go wrong with the Cyclones...

[Colonel Wolfe]

first let me say that the sentinels IS cannon and i don't care what colonel wolfe syas about it!

second, the children of the sdf 3 were definately the power in the universe. who else could mentally pluck the fold drives out of the sdf 1 from fantoma space? and they protected the sdf3 from the regis at the end.

but, since they are not a choice here, i'm going for the invid. if the masters and the zentradei were so bad a$$ then why were the invid able to occupy and enslave al the planets in the fantoma system? mo-fo!!!

I'm Quite Glad you don't Care, but you are unimformed about Current robotech continuity.

From HG's FAQ:

Q: What is the definitive source of events in the Robotech universe when discrepancies arise in continuity?
- Anonymous
A: The original television series is the primary source of story continuity for the Robotech universe. Subsequently published material (including The Sentinels) represents secondary continuity. All future works are built upon the core continuity presented in the original series, which can also be supplemented by material from secondary sources where it supports the storyline of the television episodes. Where conflicts arise, consistency with events of the television episodes takes priority.

Everything Printed, said and Done with the Sentineals is no Longer Core Continuity.

The Sentinels Diagress with the Core Continuity, as Do the Novels (Which you Obviously read) in very many Places. Your children of the SDF-3 would Fall undfer the REF Choice, was not the SDF-3 a member of the REF, and Said Children onboard.

As for you Invid commnets, Not Shown in the Animation, not Clued in by the Animation.... in the Final Episode The Regsis says:

"Whether one race or the other emerges victorious is of little meaning. Such hatred can only breed more hatred. Oh, my children…if we stay, this conflict will rage from generation to generation. Hear me! When we sensed the first indications of the protoculture resources on this world, we thought that, at last, we had found the home for which we searched. We called together all our people scattered through galaxies to begin life anew on this planet."

She Say ALL here people were on Eart, never Mentions a Regent, and Flees earth when she sees the REf is gonna Kick her butt. she Didnt A) Call for reinforcements from her "husband" b) ever Imply she had Previsouly Defeated the Masters in a War.

Seams Very Clear by her Statement All invid in the Universe are on earth.

My advise for you, Burn the Mckinney Novels, and Watch the Show.

[Lt. Holmes]

Blasphemer.

And damn proud of that fact, too

While Macross will be the most flashy of the bunch with the prettiest mecha toys... it always ends up on the bottom of the list for me when it comes to comparing the three generations.