Recreating SDF-1 in Mars

[Hav0k]

Well, the idea is to play an adventure that recreates the events in "Bye-Bye Mars" with a group of veritech pilots.

I read several articles and watched the episode a few times, and what I got is:

1- SDF-1 lands near Sara Base
2- Destroids are deployed to secure supply routes while veritech squadrons fly around the base to cover.
3- Gloval orders to move the SDF-1 closer (why????)
4- After an unknown amount of time (any ideas??), a pod is blown to pieces, and Zentreadi ambush is discovered.
5- All stations go to red alert.
6- *I assume* that supply personnel is immediately recalled to the SDF-1 *before* trying to take off (including destroids), since they are very vulnerable if left behind, veritechs will cover.
7- SDF-1 tries to take off, but gravity mines are already working.
8- Gloval orders Lisa to blow the reflex furnace under the base, and orders veritechs (and remaining destroids) to retreat and lure the zentraedi near the base (How can this be accomplished, since retreat means "go away" and lure means "go in"??? someone can explain???)
9- Base explodes.


Now for my questions :

- Is this description correct? anything missing or in the wrong order? Can someone comment on my questions inside the description?

- I was thinking that the adventure could have a Hook-Line-Sink type of description. The problem is I can't find a good "Sink" for this. Everything is very "clear" and straightforward, and for a group of veritech pilots the mission is clear (cover, protect, and shoot every single Zentraedi in sight). anyone has an idea of a possible "twist" for this scenario?

Thanks.

[Colonel Wolfe]

HOOK: The SDF-1 is low on Beer

LINE: Mars base Sera has a Large Stockpile of Billy Beer.

Sinker: Khyron has Drank all the Billy beer and planted mines everywhere, only way to escape is to BLOW up some stuff!

[glitterboy2098]

1- SDF-1 lands near Sara Base
2- Destroids are deployed to secure supply routes while veritech squadrons fly around the base to cover.
3- Gloval orders to move the SDF-1 closer (why????)

he orders it to move closer to facilitate the transfer of material. (IE: to make it easier to move stuff.) the ship set down several miles from the base as a precaution against an ambush, but when they found the base "abandoned" they moved the ship close so that destroids and non-ICE vehicles could move the supplies without having to travel several miles.

4- After an unknown amount of time (any ideas??), a pod is blown to pieces, and Zentreadi ambush is discovered.
5- All stations go to red alert.
6- *I assume* that supply personnel is immediately recalled to the SDF-1 *before* trying to take off (including destroids), since they are very vulnerable if left behind, veritechs will cover.

i'd give it about 6 hours, 2 hours to land and check the base, 4 hours to move supplies.
the supply personnel would be recalled, but some might have been caught outside when the pods attacked. (story hook. your players could end up gaurding a convoy of trucks.)

7- SDF-1 tries to take off, but gravity mines are already working.
8- Gloval orders Lisa to blow the reflex furnace under the base, and orders veritechs (and remaining destroids) to retreat and lure the zentraedi near the base (How can this be accomplished, since retreat means "go away" and lure means "go in"??? someone can explain???)
9- Base explodes.

for the veritechs, retreat would mean "get to orbit". so if they lured the pods towards the base, then took off straight up.........



the hook is they think it's just another mission. then the ambush hits, and they end up getting stuck guarding a convoy. then the SDF-1 leaves without them. so now they have to hideout on the martian plains, guarding the trucks and the vital supplies, staying one step ahead of the zentreadi. after a few hours, they can make contact with the ship, and arrange a pickup, and transfer the supplies to the shuttles. of course, the zents dog their heels the entire way.

[Lt. Holmes]

... "wow" just doesn't describe how cool those two ideas are

They make me want to run out and play them right now

[Hav0k]

Thank you alll (specially Glitterboy and AlexanderDeath).... Excellent!! just what I needed...

Just a few questions:

1- Veritechs can go into orbit from Mars without any special boosters? (I think they can, because gravity and air are not the same compared to Earth. And I think Rick does just this in the episode...)

2- You agree with the 6 hour period. But my question is: Did the Zentraedi gravity mines take SO LONG to charge up? We really dont have a reference in the episode, but I dont think those mines needed that much time, and that was the ONLY thing holding back Khyron and his troops... I would say 3 hours... or even less....

[glitterboy2098]

To answer the first - Eart requires Mach 8 to break, the Martian Atmosphere requires Mach 6.5 - 7 to break (relative to size), Most of the technical specs state the VT's speed at between mach 2.8 and 4.7 - so in all likely hood, no, they couldnt resonably do so - BUT, they could do a high altitude randezous with the SDF-1 and land (Especially since Battlepods can't fly in atmosphere)

and to find the palladium requirements, divide that by 1/2.

in palladium, earth only requires mach 5 to reach a stable orbit, so mars would be around mach 2.5-3.

even an alpha could pull that.

[Colonel Wolfe]

well, Mars has about 1/3 earths Mass.... I'd say halfing the Force needed to get to Orbit is not to bad... Booster Sleds and the Beta are needed to reach Earth's Orbit... but may not be needed on other Planets.

as for killing the game, not Really... Mars is a hugly Diffrent envroment than earth... I'd Allow for Limited Flight of Battle pods on mars... not Really Flight, but Huge Leaps that they use the Thrusters to guide with...

plus Balance? when dose Palladium system think of Balance?

[glitterboy2098]

I have never seen that anywhere in Palladiums rules - ever, and sorrry, doing that? Is just plain going to kill your game - its a balance issue. It would remove the point of the booster sleds, and later the Beta, and so on and so forth.

in the robotech RPG, the super Vf's speed is listed s mach 4.8 and able to reach orbit, (the regular Vf lists the speed needed as about mach 4.7 or so, IIRC)

mutants in orbit lists mach 5 as being required to enter orbit. (which i thought was funny because in MiO, all the "shuttles" are listed as being originally pre-flash cargo ships from earth, though most can't even each mach 5 under their rules.)

the same rules are in HU, Macross 2, and to a limited extent PW.

[Colonel Wolfe]

nice.

Launching fomr Sea Level, a Ship needs to atain a Speed of Mach 31 (sealevel) to escape the Pull of the Earth.... of Corse this is Launching fomr the Surface of the Planet, but that Number is Deciving.... 24,200 mph is the Veloisty needed to Reach a "Infinte" Distance away from the Earth.... To Establish a Orbit you need Less Veloisty, Depending on how high of an Orbit is needed. a Veritech beginning its Climb to Orbit at 40,000 feet need nto go a full 24 thousand MPh... but only 17131 mph (Mach 25) to Reach a Circular orbit.
even with these stats... the Beta's Mach 8 is not enough for Escape veloicty of earth.

i found this on Astronomy Answers

[Colonel Wolfe]

"Sub-orbital space flight refers to a mission that flies out of the atmosphere but does not reach the speeds needed to sustain continuous orbiting of the earth. The view from a sub-orbital flight is similar to being in orbit, but the cost and risks are far less." Space ship one Press Relase

Space Ship one only Reached a Low orbit of 62 miles, but as the Quote above states, it is a Sub-orbital space flight. I'm no Physisits, but Getting that high, when your Launched from the back fo an Air Plane 50thousane feet up may not Require the Extream thrust that getting a True Curcualr Orbit of the space shuttle. The Space Shuttle has a Orbital Height from 3o0km to 500 km, Mught higher than the 100km's the SS1 reached.http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/AndresMok.shtml

[Colonel Wolfe]

Martian Gravity is about 1/3 our, so if you Weight 200 pounds here, you weigth about 70ish there.... but dealin with Mass, you are 90Kg here, and 90Kg there... i still hate the Metric system...

Currently they are Researching the Effects of Martian Gravity on Mammels, they plan to Launch a Satalite in to Space the will Re-create the Gravity of mars and See how Mice sent there Develop in the 1/3 Gravity of Mars.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/mars_biosatellite_020918.html

I'd Allow a VF to Get to Space on Mars. Plus in one of the newer Comics, Karl Reiber (Lisa's old Flame) is on mars base and Gets to orbit in some POS Tommy yune had him flying.

Many of the Ships in Robotech have Anti-Grav systems that let them break orbit, I beleive thats the Main form of Propulsion on board Zent. Landing Pods.

You can Make a Brick Fly, as long as you have a Strong enough Thrust behind it, Look at the Beta... Brick with Thrusters.

[Lt. Holmes]

Look at the Beta... Brick with Thrusters.

But an attractive-ish brick, you must admit.

[Cpt. J. Hunter]

To reach Earth orbit takes mach 5, thats what the space shuttle reach, I looked it up. To escape earth orbit (trans-atmoshpiric) is atleast 5.5 (the max speed of the Metal Siren (Macross II). In Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide under Trans-Atmospheric Capabilities (page 180) they say you need mach 5+ to acheive escape velocity.

All Robotech Veritechs can go mach 4 (jet) and mach 1 (Gaurdian) in an Earth like Atmosphere. But Mars has less atmospheric pressure then Earth, less then one hundredth. This means Veritechs can go faster.
Mars' gravity is 3/8 of Earths (100 Earth lbs= 38 Mars lbs). So a Veritech would weigh less then 15,000 lbs (6.5 tons).
With all this it could at least reach a very high Mars orbit, even in Guardian mode.

[Colonel Wolfe]

To reach Earth orbit takes mach 5, thats what the space shuttle reach, I looked it up. To escape earth orbit (trans-atmoshpiric) is atleast 5.5 (the max speed of the Metal Siren (Macross II). In Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide under Trans-Atmospheric Capabilities (page 180) they say you need mach 5+ to acheive escape velocity.

Looked up where? The RPG books? use Google, he's your Friend

As Stated in Pervious posts, the Space Shuttle Reaches a Max Veloicty of over Mach 22.... as stated HERE

or ad Quote' fomr this Site:http://physics.ucsd.edu/~cdpgrad/shuttle.html

After the solid rockets are released, the shuttle is still attached to the external tank and its launch engines are still being fed propellants from the tank. When the shuttle reaches an altitude of about 57 miles, it changes trajectory to fly more horizontally, and pick up speed. In order to achieve orbit, it needs to accelerate to approximately 17,500 mph (~5 miles/sec). Once it reaches this critical speed (about 8-1/2 minutes after lift-off), the shuttle launch engines are shut off, and the shuttle separates from the external tank. The tank re-enters the atmosphere and burns up on re-entry. It is the only part of the Shuttle system that cannot be used again

[Lt. Holmes]

I don't know why, but I always thought of Bye, Bye Mars and any possible Martian setting as being the realm of the Destroids.

I mean, sure, the VTs are good and nice and all that, but the open deserts of the Martian surface would be the ideal stomping ground for the tough nuts that comprise the Planetary Forces of the RDF.

Besides, I've always been a closet-Roid supporter. They never get enough love

[Cpt. J. Hunter]

Colonel Wolfe said

Looked up where? The RPG books?

For talking about the game, yes. That's why I added the Aliens Unlimited page. I know the Shuttle in real life goes mach 22.36842105, but it's the game we're talkin about, I used game rules.
But we are talkin' about Mars not Earth. Just cause Veritechs have ceilling heights on Earth does not mean those apply to Mars. Mars even in real life would not have the same escape velocity.
Anyways I think a Veritech can reach Mars orbit, but then I think Rick just met up with the SDF-1 in high altitude before it reached orbit.
I am sorry for the confusion I caused.