Attribute rings

[Veknironth]

Well, I have a few questions about these rings from the Western Empire.

The first is, can a ring take you over the normal racial maximum? I.e., could someone with a 22 PS buy one of the +10 PS rings and end up with a 32.

The second is, does the PB (edited) ring make alter your physical features while you wear it, or just make you seem more attractive to people? I guess the same goes for MA. Does it make you more eloquent, or just make people regard you more highly?

The third is, can you boost more than one stat at a time? This goes to the old D&D "One magical ring per hand" rule. I'm guessing you can't wear two rings that boost the same stat and have them stack. But could you wear a ring that boosts PS and then one that Boosts PE?

The fourth is, if your PE is increased by the ring, does that also increase the number of hit points you have? The same question would relate to the Superhuman Strength spell.

-Vek
"How many magic rings/talismans can you have on you at once?"

[kiralon]

Yes
i assume you mean pb and a bit yes, as its in the description - physical, so stuff like facial symmetry etc, however high charisma people can be physically ugly so no for ma
yes
yes, but when you take it off your current hp goes down by that much as well as your max so it doesn't heal you, just gives you more capacity to take damage, so if you are on 4 hp do not take it off.

[The Dark Elf]

IMO:

1. Yes

2. No. It enables you to perform tasks as if your attribute was high but does not later your physiology to get there.

3. Yes. I would honestly also say if the ring power says +10 to PS then 2 would equal +20. The wording is plus ten so multiple are cumulative! If like some spells it indicates the target number of the attribute to be altered too then that's different (but that's up to the GM to allow so many rings of similar powers in their game).

4. I would say no as your P.E. only affects your starting Hit Points. We do play that altering your attributes with minuses (from permanent physical damage) affects the characters related bonuses but we don't lower HP by -XXX if they have PE minuses. This also increases the bonuses if they rise (which is the point of the power).

[Veknironth]

Well, DE, you are out of your mind with the free stacking. I know it would take around 1 million gold, but in theory someone could wear 10 rings that boost PS by 10 each and boost their PS by 100. That's a cool +85 damage. That's assuming only one ring per finger!

In a more serious vein, how would that impact someone with supernatural strength? No effect, same effect? Different?

-Vek
"Why don't any of these rich western noble NPCs wear attribute boosts on every protrusion?"

[kiralon]

And the main book does mention not getting cumulative bonuses and the example in the main book is +1 to save
as strength and supernatural strength have differences in damage and lift capabilities i wouldn't allow the ring to work, but i do add the supernatural strength standard punch damage to any weapon damage done by the creature with supernatural strength already.

[green.nova343]

And the main book does mention not getting cumulative bonuses and the example in the main book is +1 to save
as strength and supernatural strength have differences in damage and lift capabilities i wouldn't allow the ring to work, but i do add the supernatural strength standard punch damage to any weapon damage done by the creature with supernatural strength already.

Correct, p. 253 on 2nd Edition. And you can't combine it with an amulet, either. So yeah, no wearing 20 PS rings to get +200 PS (yes, you can wear 20 rings, 10 finger rings & 10 toe rings -- toe rings possibly the way to go if you want to physically conceal them).

I would personally say, however, that the bonus is a straight bonus to your attribute, regardless of whether you have normal (Human) PS or some form of augmented PS. So whether you have PS 22 (Human) or PS 22 (Supernatural), you could get boosted up to PS 32, but your type of strength would be unchanged. Note that the benefit for Supernatural PS would be to potentially boost up both the base punch damage & give you an extra +10 SDC to the punch.

That being said...nothing could stop you from wearing 8 separate attribute-boosting rings (1 per attribute), & combine it with, say, a Rune Ring of the Dwarven Lords. Although that last ring technically increases your attributes, it's not technically a specific attribute-boosting ring, so I feel you could combine it. So that 9-ring combination could give you a total of +5 IQ, +3 ME, +3 MA, +16 PS, +5 PE, +3 PP, +3 PB, & +10 SPD, along with +20 SDC. Granted, you have to deal with the shrinkage, & dealing with an intelligent ring, but still...

[ShadowLogan]

1. I do not see why not. You can get a ring to grant you Supernatural Strength, even if you have normal PS. Now I would not allow the Attribute Ring to apply to enchanted PS (ex. Bob the Fighter has PS of 17, and a Ring of +5 PS, when Jane the Mage casts "Superhuman Strength" on him, his PS is raised to 30 SN, but doesn't get the +5 from the Ring. now if Bob had SN PS naturally, then yes I could see it raising the attribute, but if Jane casts "Superhuman Strength" on him it would raise it to a flat 30 per the spell).

2. Based on Charismatic Aura (pg194 2E Level 4 Wizard Spell), I would have to say physical features are not altered, but you have an "aura" around you. PB is tricky IMHO since it is highly subjective anyway.

3. IMHO it depends on how you choose to classify the Attribute Rings. If you classify them by generic ability (alter attribute, regardless of specific type) or by specific ability (alter specific attribute). If it is a generic ability, then the 1 per type only rule applies, but if you go by specific ability, then yes you can wear one for each of the 8 attributes. IMHO, unless someone is abusing it, then I would go with specific ability rather than generic.

4. No your HP are not altered, only a permanent change to PE should impact available HP.

[drewkitty ~..~]

PS ring: yes.
PB rings: the temporary boost is real....but doesn't last taking the ring off.
MA rings: Shrugs..maybe the char just attacks more attention when they talk or move.
More than one stat improved: yes.
numbers of rings limitation: nothing canon.
Q4...any answer would be an opinion.

[The Dark Elf]

Well, DE, you are out of your mind with the free stacking. I know it would take around 1 million gold, but in theory someone could wear 10 rings that boost PS by 10 each and boost their PS by 100. That's a cool +85 damage. That's assuming only one ring per finger!

No denying it!

Do you get +85 damage? The table for PFRPG stops at P.S 30. Are attributes beyond that mentioned for PFRPG? In fact, does PRFRPG mention using "the table below" (etc.) to work out bonuses that your character has? It's been a while since I looked but IIRC (happy to be corrected)...

[Veknironth]

Well, I have it in my memory that PS is +1 to damage for every point above 30 as it goes off the chart. I also seem to remember it's another 3% bonus to skills for each point of IQ, and +1 to S/P/D for every 2 points of PP, etc., but I can't remember where I saw that. I don't see it in the PFRPG main book, but perhaps it's in another Palladium title? I know there is the SPD chart with the SPD attribute going up to 200 so, there is some precedent for abilities over 30.

-Vek
"Someone know where in the megaverse that over 30 rule is?"

[kiralon]

Turtles is the first place i remember it, and I also remember someone mentioning that kevin said PP shouldn't go over 30, so it does sound like the bonuses might apply

[Prysus]

Well, I have it in my memory that PS is +1 to damage for every point above 30 as it goes off the chart. I also seem to remember it's another 3% bonus to skills for each point of IQ, and +1 to S/P/D for every 2 points of PP, etc., but I can't remember where I saw that. I don't see it in the PFRPG main book, but perhaps it's in another Palladium title? I know there is the SPD chart with the SPD attribute going up to 200 so, there is some precedent for abilities over 30.

-Vek
"Someone know where in the megaverse that over 30 rule is?"

Greetings and Salutations. I know there have been various house rules that had such things, but the rulings presented above aren't quite official (to the best of my knowledge) and I don't know of anything specifically in Palladium Fantasy.

However, in Rifts Ultimate Edition page 284 (as well as Rifts Game Master Guide page 24) there are rules for attributes going over 30. The rules cover multiple things, but I'll try to touch on the same specifics as above.

I.Q.: +2% per 5 I.Q. points above 30.
P.S.: +1 point of damage per point of P.S. (same as the table).
P.P.: Strike/Parry/Dodge bonuses stop at 30, but you get +1 to Initiative for every 3 points above 30.

And I don't want to quote the whole section here, but this area will cover others attributes as well as have additional bonuses in other ways such as lifting/carrying capacity, bonuses to certain skills, etc.

Hope some of that helps. The information may be in other books as well, but those are the ones that I can reference easily (because Rifts is a popular setting for many and still gets updated, I try to stay up to date on its rules). Farewell and safe journeys.

[Hotrod]

Regarding stacking attribute bonuses, there are rules against wearing identical bonus items. There are different ways I might interpret this:

1. You can only boost each attribute with one magic item at a time. So the max bonus you can get is the maximum on a single item.
2. You can't repeat the same type of bonus for a given attribute. So a combination of three rings with a +1, a +2, and a +3 to strength will stack to +6, but a combination of two rings with +3 to strength will not.
3. You can't repeat items with the same enchantments. So if you have two items with different enchantments that both result in a +1 to strength, they will stack. They just can't be the same specific enchantment.