Techno-Wizard 2.0 - Seeking Clarification on Device Levels

[Talon Starblade]

Alright, I looked through a lot of the posts here, but didn’t see my question answered for Techno-wizardry…
So by what guidelines do you determine Device Level? And what effect can differing ability make beyond a bonus for working downward? Any simple spell adds to an armor or vehicle is easy enough to figure out, but other things, like weapons?

For example… A Master (7th level) and his two apprentices (3rd and 1st) begin working on a standard TW TK-Revolvers. A Device Level 3 weapon design.

Now, the master has some options… namely that he can make that old design at only DL3 and get a +20% to his construction skill role, but what if he did make it at the full DL7. What real benefit would there be, if there is one? Would he have to upgrade the device’s properties in order to make use of his higher level of ability?

In contrast, his apprentices are working hard just to make a standard one. For the 3rd level apprentice, he makes no changes (because he matches the level), but for the newbie in the team, is it even possible for him to make one on his own? The device is 2 full levels beyond his level. The charts with the pluses and minuses only list the ability to subtract from DL for a bonus.

Next up, conversions.
Battery conversions: fairly simple, I figure most of them are only a DL1, while the more portable version of the Mystic generator would have varying DL’s (house sized, building sized, town sized) are tougher, but still difficult to set at.

Weapon conversions: Ok, another difficult subject. The original versions were a lot cheaper to make than the TK weaponry, so would they be a lower level device conversion? Easier to convert with actual electronics, rather than convert from just mechanical designs like guns? The only example of a possible way of doing a blaster mod, is to take an E-clip, gems and what not, and the spell "Sub-particle Acceleration," and boom, gun itself is left untouched and still usable with standard E-Clips (I'd rate this one as much harder to pull off, hence higher DL)... But toe actually convert the weapon itself... What DL's for different kinds of energy guns?

Vehicle conversions: this is the hardest one of all, as there are NO examples to work with, and frankly the old system of conversions never really seemed viable. Example: TK engine convert a motorcycle and an ATV transport camper. Both have different handling characteristics, but the cost is the same to create, require the same amount in parts and gems, give the vehicles a top speed of 210 mph, and a range of 50 miles before needing recharge. And all the other conversion types are the the same way.

So, how do these convert? I would think that the vehicle characteristics (speed, handling, and range) would remain the same as the original vehicle, much like the weapons keeping all their original statistics, only the engine has been changed or adapted. What would the DL’s be like… The Spells and gems are actually easy to figure out, but the DL’s are hard to figure out… Especially if something that is so much a part of the Techno-wizard working. What kind of guideline for assigning DL’s would there be? And could a small bike, atv, or car be a DL as low as 1 or 2?

Anyone, please supply me with information, ideas, and what not. If there IS documentation at all, please let me know, cause I’ve been trying to work these things out, some things just need examples.


Update: Come on guys... Somebody's gotta have SOME information or thoughts on this...

[Talon Starblade]

Oh come on. No one has any thoughts on this subject? No dea at all?

[cchopps]

I'm in the process of shifting my old campaign from RMB to RUE for TW and have been looking at this stuff the last few days. Our PC TW hasn't played with all the rules yet, but some.

Alright, I looked through a lot of the posts here, but didn’t see my question answered for Techno-wizardry…
So by what guidelines do you determine Device Level?

I'm leaning toward using a minimum DL of 1/2 the highest spell used in the item (possibly 1/2 the highest spell level +1) and the maximum DL being the main TW's level. The main TW making the item must be at least the same level as the DL.

And what effect can differing ability make beyond a bonus for working downward?

Creating an item at a lower DL lower's the PPE Cost of creating the item, which in turn lowers the activation cost, parts cost, and time to make. In general, you are better off making an item at the lowest DL possible.

Any simple spell adds to an armor or vehicle is easy enough to figure out, but other things, like weapons?

Really depends on the effect. The most common is going to be duration of an effect. For weapons, it is probably going to affect range. It really depends what your primary/secondary spells are and how the spell caster's level matters for them. Sadly, a bunch of spells really aren't affected by caster level. In that case, I'd probably tie the spell strength to the device level (a TW gets a +3 to spell strength at level 12, so only a Device with a 12 DL would get that +3).

A Master (7th level) and his two apprentices (3rd and 1st) begin working on a standard TW TK-Revolvers. A Device Level 3 weapon design.

Now, the master has some options… namely that he can make that old design at only DL3 and get a +20% to his construction skill role, but what if he did make it at the full DL7. What real benefit would there be, if there is one? Would he have to upgrade the device’s properties in order to make use of his higher level of ability?

That item is based on two 3rd level spells (TK and Energy Bolt) and neither of those have any applicable level based variables. So with this particular example going strictly by the rules there is no benefit to raising the DL.

As to why the device in the book is DL 3 I have no idea. In my game (1/2 spell level +1) it would be, but there is no reason for it based on RUE.

As an ST, without adding an additional secondary to increase range, I'd probably let them use their spell strength bonus to give a +1 to strike. So, for a typical TW a DL of 4 would be +1, DL 8 would be +2, etc.

In contrast, his apprentices are working hard just to make a standard one. For the 3rd level apprentice, he makes no changes (because he matches the level), but for the newbie in the team, is it even possible for him to make one on his own?

Nope. Page 132 under "Techno-Wizard Device Level" it says the DL can't be higher level than the creating Techno-Wizard. The level 1 TW could only assist one of the other two. Not make one on his own.

Battery conversions:

I've been thinking about these. I was thinking of just sticking with the conversions as they are in the RMB, allowing all TWs to do them, and not having any DL.

Weapon conversions:

Sorry. I couldn't follow what you were saying in this paragraph. ??

Vehicle conversions:

I totally agree with your assessment of this problem. I haven't really thought about it much yet. I'd probably look at the conversion of the simplest engine, come up with some sort of ratio, and then apply that ratio to more expensive engines.

I just posted a thread earlier tonight about trying to figure out a way to convert the RMB TW armor upgrades to the RUE system. Any ideas on your end?

C. Chopps