Weird GB recoil and Deevil issues

[J_cobbers]

Has anyone ever noticed in RUE that the GB is worse off shooting the Boomgun underwater without the pylons than on dry land? Under water it gets thrown back 1d4x100 yard/meters and lose initiative and 1d4+3 actions vs the mere 30 feet on dry land (and no mention of lost initiative or actions per pg 72 RUE, but I presume those are found elsewhere). Using real-world physics you would think being under water would actually minimize the recoil rather than enhance it. But this is Rifts and we should know better!

Likewise any good rules lawyer would spot under the effects of the sonic boom that it doesn't effect Greater Demons, Demon Lords, Eementals or Gods. But Deevils (greater or Lords) are missing from that list. which means logically that they'd be effected like Dragons and similarly powerful beings, i.e. effected for 1d4 minutes. This means in the Minion war, the GB is better off fighting Deevils rather than Demons. Or it could just be another glaring omission. I only mention it because Demons and Deevils are distinct groups in the PB megaverse.

[Johnathan]

Has anyone ever noticed in RUE that the GB is worse off shooting the Boomgun underwater without the pylons than on dry land? Under water it gets thrown back 1d4x100 yard/meters and lose initiative and 1d4+3 actions vs the mere 30 feet on dry land (and no mention of lost initiative or actions per pg 72 RUE, but I presume those are found elsewhere). Using real-world physics you would think being under water would actually minimize the recoil rather than enhance it. But this is Rifts and we should know better!

Likewise any good rules lawyer would spot under the effects of the sonic boom that it doesn't effect Greater Demons, Demon Lords, Eementals or Gods. But Deevils (greater or Lords) are missing from that list. which means logically that they'd be effected like Dragons and similarly powerful beings, i.e. effected for 1d4 minutes. This means in the Minion war, the GB is better off fighting Deevils rather than Demons. Or it could just be another glaring omission. I only mention it because Demons and Deevils are distinct groups in the PB megaverse.

1 - I think the whole underwater thing has to do with forces as they are applied underwater. That and with it being underwater, without pylons, it's arguable that the GB would actually "spin out of control" after firing their Boomgun underwater, thus the delay in actions. Also, I would theorize, the GB doesn't have the luxury of their stabilizing thrusters underwater.

2 - My gut tells me it's "glaring omission" as there seems to be no logical reason NOT to include Deevils into that equation. I know, it's shocking.

[J_cobbers]

1 - I think the whole underwater thing has to do with forces as they are applied underwater. That and with it being underwater, without pylons, it's arguable that the GB would actually "spin out of control" after firing their Boomgun underwater, thus the delay in actions. Also, I would theorize, the GB doesn't have the luxury of their stabilizing thrusters underwater.

2 - My gut tells me it's "glaring omission" as there seems to be no logical reason NOT to include Deevils into that equation. I know, it's shocking.

On point one, and I should have mentioned it, the thrusters do function underwater and can propel the GB at 15 mph either under water or at the surface while swimming. Again doesn't make sense, unless factoring in the water down the barrel of the boom gun that has to be pushed out of the way of the round adding to the mass acting on the armor, but still I think that it would be balanced out by amount of water the frame of the armor is pushing back against as well.

As for point 2, yes totally a glaring omission, but oh so exploitable by twinky power gamers as an instance of black letter rules as written.

[Blue_Lion]

If the recoil was based off a shock wave affect that affect would be stronger under water. In addition they probably assumed its floating would cause a longer hang time on the knock back.

[Zer0 Kay]

Has anyone ever noticed in RUE that the GB is worse off shooting the Boomgun underwater without the pylons than on dry land? Under water it gets thrown back 1d4x100 yard/meters and lose initiative and 1d4+3 actions vs the mere 30 feet on dry land (and no mention of lost initiative or actions per pg 72 RUE, but I presume those are found elsewhere). Using real-world physics you would think being under water would actually minimize the recoil rather than enhance it. But this is Rifts and we should know better!

Likewise any good rules lawyer would spot under the effects of the sonic boom that it doesn't effect Greater Demons, Demon Lords, Eementals or Gods. But Deevils (greater or Lords) are missing from that list. which means logically that they'd be effected like Dragons and similarly powerful beings, i.e. effected for 1d4 minutes. This means in the Minion war, the GB is better off fighting Deevils rather than Demons. Or it could just be another glaring omission. I only mention it because Demons and Deevils are distinct groups in the PB megaverse.

Bah, if we put science into it you shouldn't fire the Boomgun underwater if it is a real railgun (likely one of the few) and not a coilgun (like all the rest), then one needs to worry about exposed rails charged with enough electricity to launch one of the fastest rounds in the game. Massive electrical discharge and a gun that needs repairs before it can fire again as the round would be arcwelded onto the rails.

[boring7]

Aunt Phyllis says that water makes you lighter, which is why fat kids don't drown. Therefore the Glitterboy is lighter and is knocked back farther. QED. Then she giggles and makes up down for a split second because it's funny.

[Greepnak]

I thought it was because the GB can achieve neutral buoyancy and as a result probably spins out of control like a badly made paper airplane in a fluid medium. On dry land it doesnt get sent for a head over heels twirl and just falls to the ground since the only world-forces acting on it would be gravity and recoil with air pressure being negligible, not like water pressure.

I mean, there's a reason astronauts train for space movement in pools while set up in suits to achieve neutral buoyancy.

[Axelmania]

Has anyone ever noticed in RUE that the GB is worse off shooting the Boomgun underwater without the pylons than on dry land? Under water it gets thrown back 1d4x100 yard/meters and lose initiative and 1d4+3 actions vs the mere 30 feet on dry land (and no mention of lost initiative or actions per pg 72 RUE, but I presume those are found elsewhere). Using real-world physics you would think being under water would actually minimize the recoil rather than enhance it. But this is Rifts and we should know better!

I figure that had something to do with how Palladium makes Sonic attacks worse underwater. I think here they mixed up the sonic boom with the knockback. Or maybe linked the two somehow

Likewise any good rules lawyer would spot under the effects of the sonic boom that it doesn't effect Greater Demons, Demon Lords, Eementals or Gods. But Deevils (greater or Lords) are missing from that list. which means logically that they'd be effected like Dragons and similarly powerful beings, i.e. effected for 1d4 minutes. This means in the Minion war, the GB is better off fighting Deevils rather than Demons. Or it could just be another glaring omission. I only mention it because Demons and Deevils are distinct groups in the PB megaverse.

Worth noting that the denizens of Dyval have been referred to as "another horde of demons" in the Conversion Book.

The whole Devil>Deevil thing was a bad move considering 'Deevil' was and still is the name of a specific kind of Dyvalian.

So a Greater Dyvalian can be thought of as a Greater Demon, in that respect, if you respect the classics.

I notice Alien Intelligences are absent from this list... as are Super-Godlings like the Hundred Handed.

If the recoil was based off a shock wave affect that affect would be stronger under water. In addition they probably assumed its floating would cause a longer hang time on the knock back.

Latter hadn't presently occurred to me, it's a good explanation.

Like for example, if a Glitter Boy was shooting while falling off a cliff and had nothing to attach to, that distance would probably be greater.

[J_cobbers]

Has anyone ever noticed in RUE that the GB is worse off shooting the Boomgun underwater without the pylons than on dry land? Under water it gets thrown back 1d4x100 yard/meters and lose initiative and 1d4+3 actions vs the mere 30 feet on dry land (and no mention of lost initiative or actions per pg 72 RUE, but I presume those are found elsewhere). Using real-world physics you would think being under water would actually minimize the recoil rather than enhance it. But this is Rifts and we should know better!

I figure that had something to do with how Palladium makes Sonic attacks worse underwater. I think here they mixed up the sonic boom with the knockback. Or maybe linked the two somehow

Hmm it's a thought, RW physics takes a back seat as usual.

Likewise any good rules lawyer would spot under the effects of the sonic boom that it doesn't effect Greater Demons, Demon Lords, Eementals or Gods. But Deevils (greater or Lords) are missing from that list. which means logically that they'd be effected like Dragons and similarly powerful beings, i.e. effected for 1d4 minutes. This means in the Minion war, the GB is better off fighting Deevils rather than Demons. Or it could just be another glaring omission. I only mention it because Demons and Deevils are distinct groups in the PB megaverse.

Worth noting that the denizens of Dyval have been referred to as "another horde of demons" in the Conversion Book.

The whole Devil>Deevil thing was a bad move considering 'Deevil' was and still is the name of a specific kind of Dyvalian.

So a Greater Dyvalian can be thought of as a Greater Demon, in that respect, if you respect the classics.

I notice Alien Intelligences are absent from this list... as are Super-Godlings like the Hundred Handed.

Guess that puts them into the same category as Dragons? Alien Intelligences are arguably on par with gods, so you could go either way, but being on par dragon would be the floor for them at worst.

If the recoil was based off a shock wave affect that affect would be stronger under water. In addition they probably assumed its floating would cause a longer hang time on the knock back.

Latter hadn't presently occurred to me, it's a good explanation.

Like for example, if a Glitter Boy was shooting while falling off a cliff and had nothing to attach to, that distance would probably be greater.

Hmm I hadn't considered that the GB would have a neutral buoyancy being made of super-dense chrome and all I figured it would sink like a stone unless swimming and using the thruster system, but yeah that's a more plausible explanation given the game rules as written. Yay for having to come up with wonky explanations for how physics work in Rifts