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Howdy, Folks. I have a PC in my campaign who has established the God Complex insanity. It makes for really good roleplay because he plays the insanity VERY well. Case in point. He had 3 other PC's and about 10 NPC's or so (3 or 4 could be able to stand and deliver in a fight) in a bar. They were trying to recruit a crew for their ship and the captain of another ship disrespected him (in his eyes). The captain sent his first mate out of the bar. The "God" PC continues to up the ante when they notice about 40 or 50 of the captain's crew outside ready for a fight. Rather than retreating or de-escallating the situation, he continues to be a jerk and does some temporal time voodo on the captain. The crew backed down eventually but in the face of insurmountable odds, he stuck to his guns and played in character.

So since this insanity causes such good roleplay for the players and myself, I want to start rewarding him. He has established his holy symbol and has started recruiting members for his church. As his church grows he should start getting powers.

How should I start incorporating the effects of his worshipers into power? Should it be when he's around a large group of his followers, should he start getting powers he didn't have before? I'm at a loss of how to start "godding" this guy up.

HELP!!!!!!

Aaryq wrote:Howdy, Folks. I have a PC in my campaign who has established the God Complex insanity. It makes for really good roleplay because he plays the insanity VERY well. Case in point. He had 3 other PC's and about 10 NPC's or so (3 or 4 could be able to stand and deliver in a fight) in a bar. They were trying to recruit a crew for their ship and the captain of another ship disrespected him (in his eyes). The captain sent his first mate out of the bar. The "God" PC continues to up the ante when they notice about 40 or 50 of the captain's crew outside ready for a fight. Rather than retreating or de-escallating the situation, he continues to be a jerk and does some temporal time voodo on the captain. The crew backed down eventually but in the face of insurmountable odds, he stuck to his guns and played in character.

So since this insanity causes such good roleplay for the players and myself, I want to start rewarding him. He has established his holy symbol and has started recruiting members for his church. As his church grows he should start getting powers.

How should I start incorporating the effects of his worshipers into power? Should it be when he's around a large group of his followers, should he start getting powers he didn't have before? I'm at a loss of how to start "godding" this guy up.

HELP!!!!!!

Honestly? A browse of the Gods in Palladium's "Dragons and Gods" might help a lot....as might taking a look at how D&D3E (or 3.5) handle such powers.

With that said, in situations like this I'm a big fan of "winging" it. But remember, if you start godding up one player....it's only a matter of time before similar things are necessary for the rest of the party, or else they'll literally start getting one shotted by the things that will now "casually challenge" your god pc.

It's a dangerous slippery slope that I enjoy exploring....but before you go ahead and start rewarding him, you might want to get a feeling for how the rest of the party feels about the ante being upped like this.

Don't worry. I'm not a big fan of unbalancing my characters. If he becomes a god, the other characters will get boosted in their strengths (men at arms will get more tech, mages will get more and/or better spells, psi characters will get more psionics, etc). Balance will not be an issue.

Other things to think: What niche do he occupies as a God? Is there another god who can feel challenged? This can lead to a confrontation first between cults and then between gods themselves. Good luck

mobuttu wrote:Other things to think: What niche do he occupies as a God? Is there another god who can feel challenged? This can lead to a confrontation first between cults and then between gods themselves. Good luck

He is a time god. He has started manipulating religious teachers of the Norse Pantheon to sneak him in there as a LESSER God. His goal is to be stuck to the tree of Yasgradsill (I also can't spell). He has a few hundred follwers right now plus a few priests.

sawg138 wrote:Wow. Well, if nothing else, he's an interesting character, though I wonder if he'll survive his crucificion on the World Tree. He'd be awful vulnerable at that point and it sounds like he makes enemies as readily as followers. Just food for thought.

I don't think anyone survives the crucification. I was pretty sure that was the point. You die and are transformed and/or given knowledge. Sounds like a good turning point for a story to me.

IF is the opperative word ... i think it has something to do with rolling against your coma/death roll ... with possible negatives. after all .. look at all the various magic items that would be lying about at the base of the tree or where ever you choose to get stuck.

while it would be interesting to 'steal' said items .. personally ... i think the serpent would have something to say about that. it does have to eat as well.

otherwise? ... a 'god complex' yeah .. understandable .. but actually granting powers? .. kinda hard to picture it myself. and instead of the norse pantheon .. why not one of his own creation?

his insanity would drive him to do that instead, well my thinking on the topic would have him try to start up his own .. even if it means he ... 'borrows' priests from other pantheons ...

What the character did was got the person to start spreading his name thru the Norse pantheon, as he convinced the guy that he was a forgotten member of the pantheon. Right now he is just trying to get as many worshippers as possible.

Well, one thing to recall is that he's likely annoying people who are currently in the Norse pantheon by inserting himself into the family, as it were... especially if his deeds reflect badly upon the Aesir and Vanir.

And, of course, he's claiming their enemies as his own, so there's always the giants who might move against an upstart godling...

In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.

since the guy was turning to us for ideas instead of just going to the books himself, odds are he's not going to be following the letter of the law.

Marrowlight wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.

since the guy was turning to us for ideas instead of just going to the books himself, odds are he's not going to be following the letter of the law.

Exactly. The letter of the law has its times, and I would like to stray from the book...mostly because I want to bring this campaign to epic levels.

Aaryq wrote:

Marrowlight wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.

since the guy was turning to us for ideas instead of just going to the books himself, odds are he's not going to be following the letter of the law.

Exactly. The letter of the law has its times, and I would like to stray from the book...mostly because I want to bring this campaign to epic levels.

But it's helpful to know the letter of the laws one is breaking, after all.

Torquemada wrote:I also don't think that ascension to immortality and attaining god-hood really fits into Rifts (as the previous rules mentioned come from PF-based books...)

Given how squishy even gods are in Rifts, I don't see why not.

Torquemada wrote:wow, looks like I'm alone on this one, but it's not the first time, so here goes:
The God Complex is an insanity. I don't see the need to reward someone for being insane by granting them God-hood. I also don't think that ascension to immortality and attaining god-hood really fits into Rifts (as the previous rules mentioned come from PF-based books...)
Rewarding the player for playing in character is one thing, but think about this...it's an insanity...if it was something that really happened, it wouldn't be an insanity. That's like saying just because I believe in my heart of hearts that I can fly, then I should eventually be given the ability to fly, and I just don't buy it. If this was something truly achievable, others would be actively striving for it, not just acquiring it because of a mental affliction.

If teh character wasn't doing anything to actively promote him/herself as a god, I'd agree. But, if he is actually gaining followers, and people are worshipping him, I have to go with the becoming a God. And since that's the case, that's what gets my vote.

Now, as has been said here on the boards, and in books, etc, when you worship, you send some of your PPE to what you're worshipping (of course, you don't ever actually see this side of it, even is playing a magic user or a priest.. hrmm... I see a house rule in the making!).

Now, as such, that PPE goes to the God. Or in this case, the would-be God. Who spends the PPE. Now, if he's not spending this PPE for the worshippers, the worshippers may not worship for too long.

As such, I'd start with a simple 1ppe per 10 worshippers. But of course, he's going to have to be doing things for them to keep worshipping him.

As such, he's going to be burning some of his OWN PPE until he gets more followers. Which means that he is probably going to be spending more than he's making, at least for a while. I'd say at 1,000 worshippers, he can get 1ppe per 5worshippers. And at 5,000 worshippers, he can figure out how to invest spells and such through a priest. Not the actual prayers and miracles, just basic spells. He can also start having the priest gather the PPE from worshippers (like a focus for their worship), and just gather it from him. At 10,000 worshippers, he can figure out how to answer prayers and miracles. That's when he can actually start being more "godly".

At least, that's all IMHO

Lucky wrote:How exactly do you spend PPE on your followers? It's not as if you can redeem it for prizes...

Casting spells for them, doing things for them. In other words, keeping them happy. Basically, until you can start having priests and whatnot, YOU have to do all the tasks you'd have THEM do. Healing, preaching, helping, blessing. etc etc etc. of course, the problem with that is people see you as a person, not a god.

Although, I did have one player who worked around all that. He was a mind mage...who went by the name "Hastor, the King in yellow". He worshipped the God Azirine. Which was his true name. So he acted like a priest. Which means people saw him as a priest. So everything he did in the name of the "God", was just that much more convincing.

So what if he has a god complex? it's an insanity. He may draw attention from a god who likes to mess with mortals. He either admires his moxy or wants to teach him a lesson

Torquemada wrote:not a fair question, since there is nothing to indicate whether they were always gods, and therefore imbued with certain knowledge skills and abilities since inception, or whether they ascended to godhood like this character is attempting. Notable exception being the Dragon gods like Styphon, but as we all know, dragons are supernatural creatures of magic born with the full knowledge of how to use magic.

I stand by my first response: This is an insanity, not a path to divinity.

Right. Like there arn't Mad Gods

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Torquemada wrote:not a fair question, since there is nothing to indicate whether they were always gods, and therefore imbued with certain knowledge skills and abilities since inception, or whether they ascended to godhood like this character is attempting. Notable exception being the Dragon gods like Styphon, but as we all know, dragons are supernatural creatures of magic born with the full knowledge of how to use magic.

I stand by my first response: This is an insanity, not a path to divinity.

Right. Like there arn't Mad Gods

Beyond which, at the end of the day, the GM isn't asking for your approval on whether or not he should do it, he's asking for guidelines on how to do it.

Torquemada wrote:well, gee, thanks. I hadn't realized that. Now my whole opinion's changed. lol. seriously, though, I realize that, but since this thread has turned into a debate on my opinion, I stand to defend it. S'ok, though, I've been in the unpopular pool before...I know how to swim ;^)

The point wasn't to change your opinion...it was to remind you that it was never asked for by the OP, so don't expect to change his.

But thanks for the woe is my defense there -- Truth be told, I hadn't realized the whole thread had turned against you. Hell, I barely even noticed who you were tbh. Trust me, while I can't speak for the others I can promise I never was 'against' you and was completely focused on the OP and his goals, not those who would detract from it needlessly.

And with that said, to the OP -- did the rest of the group feel it was cool to push the game into this avenue? It's been a week or so now.

Magic is about belief, according to the rules. If you 100% believe you can perform magic, you can. If you don't believe or you only have 99% belief, you can't.

While you do need to learn the spells or get really good rolls to create your own, just believing you are capable will be sufficient (see above) to get you started.

Insanity is a really good way of getting that 100% confidence. Nothing like a good delusion to tell people to take their "falsehoods" and stick it, since you know the truth.

So, that would make it easy for the mindset needed for a character to change classes or dual class (also allowed via the rules) and start working with PPE. From there, little bitty baby steps towards forming a cult and syphoning their PPE (also in the rules) to perform bigger and better spells, and so on.

So, it's doable. And it doesn't have to take that much time to amass the needed followers. Heck, look at L Ron Hubbard. And if the character does convince some of the other gods that he is simply a forgotten but legitimate god, that definitely deserves a creativity kudos in some manner (quickening the process, some of the abilities early, extra abilities) as that god's adherents are likely to know of the "recovered" god, and recognition allows for a tiny bit of belief.

As far as the original question goes, I think that Goliath has really, really good ideas and details. That sounds very workable and fair to both GM and player.

And the fact he hasn't been injured yet can't hurt.

I think that what I have now will be as follows:

Roll per session to see how many follwers he gains
Slight PPE increases per level and a % of it occuring mid level
Freak surges of PPE if his people sacrifice something (he may or may not know how to control such a massive influx of PPE and a spell might randomly pop off)
Increased spell knowledge per level
As he notices this, his insanity will become more and more powerful
Eventually he will be unable to be cured from the insanity
Gods giving him subtle hints or aid

Things he needs to watch out for:
Martyrs in massive numbers (if a large number of his followers are slain, he will gain another PPE surge but then his overall PPE will go down)
Loss of massive numbers (people loose faith or are die a non-martyr's death) will result in a loss of PPE
Angry gods rival to the gods that are friendly to him

More on this later