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1) Dark Day Date Confusion

On page 11 of the rulesbook (RB) it is clearly stated that Dark Day occurred on March 6, 2000. But there are two passages that are obviously a mistake:

On page 7 of the RB the Wanderer says that it is "a year and a day" since Dark Day - the entry is dated May 8, 2001, which would make Dark Day May 7, 2000. This mistake is "supported" by RB pg 22 where it is said that some Seekers predicted Dark Day to happen in May 2000 (they did that six months prior to the invasion, as said in the text).

My guess is that those two paragraphs were simply overlooked in the final version, probably at one time Dark Day was supposed to happen in May, not March 2000.

2) Carson's Re-Election

There is another minor mistake in the RB when it comes to figures: On page 13 it is said Carson got 76% when he was re-elected, page 31 says 89%. Both say re-election, both say by popular vote.


3) Blood of Hounds

In the description of the Vampire's Bite in the RB pg 183 it is said that "Hounds, Hunters and Hollow Men are animated shells with no blood". Please clarify, as we know from Between the Shadows that (at least in the Nightlands), Hounds do have Blood. Oh, and if youre at it, it would be nice to get an official word about what happens to their Blades when the bodies disappear on Earth.

4) Combat Rules

Disarm is mentioned sometimes in the RB, but is not explained in the Combat Section. Also, in the Hand-to-Hand-tables, there is no Bonus for Disarm, probably a mistake, probably not.

The Knockout/Stun rules are not complete (duration, what roll is needed - natural 19, 20 as usual?).

Please add missing rules for Modern Combat (as, for instance, presented in Systems Failure) especially the "to-hit-numbers" for close (5), medium (8) and long distance (12). Also, the rules on Re-Loading (RB pg. 209) need clarification (quote: "Note that it will take much longer to reload while in the thick of hand to hand combat" - uhm, yes, how long?).

The rules for Horror Factor could be updated (from World Book 4).



5) Nightbane Abilities

Please clarify, wether Nightbane can sense Latents or only Nightbane in both forms after the first Becoming. Also, please clarify (or make up rules) limb-regeneration (in both forms?). Same goes for the Healing rate of the Facade (our houserule: double the rate of normal humans).

6) Creating a character

Is there a reason that the Attribute Bonus table on pg. 34 starts with an attribute of 17 (instead of 16, like in Palladium Fantasy)?

Also, while copy&paste, the common Speed chart seems to have been ommitted for unknown reasons!

7) Skills

It would be nice to have a new Skills Table including the Skills from the four World Books.

Also, Criminal Sciences & Forensics and Forensic Medicine seem to be two skills according to the Skills Table, but the first one does not have Base Skill and plus per Level. (I would prefer it if they were combined into one skill anyway.)

8) PPE

PPE regeneration (5 per hour thru rest/sleep) from BtS should be added to the RB.

9) Equipment

I would love to see a lot more "normal" Equipment from day-to-day life in the price-tables!!

Thanks for the attention, there will be more...

The Equipment Pages desperately need to be re-written for the new millennium. $500 for a VCR? C'mon, I know that some people call them antiques, but no one's going to auction one at Southeby's.

The Last Darkness wrote:Also on the Dark Day events technicaly dpending on your view both sides can be wroung. It may have happened in March or May, just houserule what you prefer.

Our origenal GM had it occur on September, 1999 to give a little homage to Nostradamus.

the discussion on this topic is here: viewtopic.php?t=59625

In this thread, please stick to listings of errors, omissions, wish-lists and the like. thank you.

filo_clarke wrote:The Equipment Pages desperately need to be re-written for the new millennium. $500 for a VCR? C'mon, I know that some people call them antiques, but no one's going to auction one at Southeby's.

Don't you mean the equipment pages should be updated for the late 1980s? That alone'd fix the VCR price problem

filo_clarke wrote:The Equipment Pages desperately need to be re-written for the new millennium. $500 for a VCR? C'mon, I know that some people call them antiques, but no one's going to auction one at Southeby's.

just seen a vcr for 23.99 at Walmart.

Lextar wrote:Just wondering if any of the questions in the first post get answered? I'm interested in no3 and 5.

yes and no in a way...both have been discussed on the board (the threads are easy to find), but we dont have an "official" answer.

Lextar wrote:Just wondering if any of the questions in the first post get answered? I'm interested in no3 and 5.

Nope. They likely won't be until a new book comes along to address the issue (or the old books see a new edition). I hear that the authors of the next Nightbane book are planning to clarify some problems like these, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Given the current rules for supernatural beings in Rifts and BTS2, the blood thing may be seen as a result of the hounds' "earthly" bodies being accretions of ectoplasm and earthly material, while their bodies in the Nightlands (their home dimension) are their true form.

In the Nightlands book the write-up for Ursus the Titan is missing a listing of his Nightbane Talents.

Operations wrote:I see no mention of the usual penalty for dodging fast moving ranged attacks (bows, guns, lazerz), but assume it should be there. Is it just well hidden like in Palladium Fantasy?

No, the rules for dodging gunfire didn't exsist until about 4-5 years ago originating in Rifts. Anything written in the 90's for palladium, including eairly rifts books, do not have the penalty for dodging fast moving ranged attacks because it didn't exsist yet.

Palladium Fantasy was redone into a second edition several years ago too, which is why the new version has it. the first edition one does not.

a ruling on whether wampyr's can create more of thier kind

csbioborg wrote:a ruling on whether wampyr's can create more of thier kind

Its not really needed since they are technically an abomination. They aren't meant to exist and unique factors are what it takes for one to become a Wampyr IE either being a latent Nightbane or the something else in the intended victim. Who knows. But I do not ever see them being able to create more of Wampyrs.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Lextar wrote:Just wondering if any of the questions in the first post get answered? I'm interested in no3 and 5.

I hear that the authors of the next Nightbane book are planning to clarify some problems like these, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Indeed we plan to, and have offered our suggestions for clarifying a number of these issues. However, Kev has the full authority to change or omit any answers we came up with for such questions. So, I can not in good conscience give what those answers may be to avoid any confusion that might arise from changes Kev might make.

However, my co-writer and I do pay attention to the questions that pop up around here (though we had many of these ourselves when we sat down to write the manuscript), so I encourage you all to keep adding legitimate questions to this topic if you have them.

Thanks.

Warwolf wrote:(though we had many of these ourselves when we sat down to write the manuscript)

you dont wanna share the credit, eh?

Vidynn wrote:

Warwolf wrote:(though we had many of these ourselves when we sat down to write the manuscript)

you dont wanna share the credit, eh?

Hah! Perhaps you should look at it as great minds thinking alike.

In all seriousness, half of the issues you mention in the first post are things we came up with during brainstorming. It was Irvin's idea to do a Q&A section for the manuscript. So, we tried to address the the most important ones we could with a Q&A section (i.e. adding something like the speed chart or newer equipment would require another printing of the main book rather than being stuck in the back of a random sourcebook).

As far as the PPE regeneration, I think we ended up finding it listed in some obscure location in one of the books (can't remember which one). However, I remember it matched the rate in Palladium Fantasy (which may be the same as BtS... I can never remember off the top of my head).

As far as stuff like skills, I assure you that I am doing everything in my power to bring the setting more in line with the newer Palladium material.

Warwolf wrote:As far as the PPE regeneration, I think we ended up finding it listed in some obscure location in one of the books (can't remember which one). However, I remember it matched the rate in Palladium Fantasy (which may be the same as BtS... I can never remember off the top of my head).

It's on page 126 of Between the Shadows.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Warwolf wrote:As far as the PPE regeneration, I think we ended up finding it listed in some obscure location in one of the books (can't remember which one). However, I remember it matched the rate in Palladium Fantasy (which may be the same as BtS... I can never remember off the top of my head).

It's on page 126 of Between the Shadows.

Thanks for the backup Tinker. I don't often have access to my books when I post.

Warwolf wrote:As far as stuff like skills, I assure you that I am doing everything in my power to bring the setting more in line with the newer Palladium material.

I think you succeeded:
"New Nightbane Creation Guideline Tables by education & background"

A fairly easy fix to the equipment table, at least for my own games is to go with a high end, average, low end scheme determined by the year, or era. For example take cell phones. If you are playing a HU game in the 1980s a basic cell phone that just works as a phone is going to be the "high end" of the era, and the only one available. A cell phone in 1995 with basic phone features will drop to "average" prices, the same phone in 2005 is now low end. If you are going for 2015 then what is a "high end" smart phone now will be average, or maybe low end, and have all the features expected of a smart phone today, plus some. If you do it this way you just need to set prices for high, average and low, and not specific phones. It doesn't work for everything, but it removed the problem of having a portable computer in Rifts being something that I can buy at Best Buy for today for half the listed value. If you want to go nuts add a super tech version. Following the cell phone example make the setting 1960, and your iPhone is now high tech super science that beats what was on Star Trek.

Are the ISP for Secondary Vampires listed anywhere (in Nightbane)? [not that it's hard to guess: 2D6x10?]

How about the Vampire's nightvision? The Master Vampire's "Natural Abilities" portion mentions that all vampires should have it, but i can't find it. Also, are Wampyrs supposed to be able to see in the dark?

Shadows of Light, pg. 143: the german translation of "the Catacombs of Rome" should read "die Katakomben von Rom" (not: "die Katakomben aus Rom").

Nightbane Survival Guide, pg. 34: Franz Kafka was not a German by Nationality (he spoke german but was either Czech or Austrian, subject to interpretation).

Nightbane Survival Guide, pg. 39: Chernobyl is not in Russia but in the Ukraine.

The Ashmadi is listed has having "Supernatual" for Combat style. It can't learn any Hand to Hand combat skills. (I've just been assuming they have some equivelant of Martial Arts like Nightbane) But it would be good to actually get a ruling on this.

UR Leader Hobbes wrote:The Ashmadi is listed has having "Supernatural" for Combat style. It can't learn any Hand to Hand combat skills. (I've just been assuming they have some equivalent of Martial Arts like Nightbane) But it would be good to actually get a ruling on this.

Due to my examining the text, I would go with 4 APM, with just the listed & attribute bonuses.

Rhomphaia wrote:DVD players are a threat to national security, and thus have been outlawed by the Preserver administration. The result is a soaring price in VCRs.

*Sniff, sniff.* I smell another source book.

In all seriousness, this topic has made me want to do some material on the black market for various things (including armaments). Maybe if I end up doing the Resistance Faction Book...

Greetings!

I have the older version of the game: Nightspawn, and I cannot find whether or not Dopplegangers, Hounds or even Hound Masters can Mirror Walk. Any help would be appreciated. The derscription of Dopplegangers implies that they cannot Mirror Walk on thier own, so, obviously they must be sent by someone. I want to know whom? Is the typical "sender" a Hound Master? A Night Priest with a mirror-based variant of Nightlands Portal Spell? Is it a Nightprince? I kinda like this one, as I have little use for a Nightprince otherwise. Still, that's a VERY BUSY monster!!!

It sure as heck ain't likley to be a full fledged Nightlord! If every Nightlord had to do all of his/her own Mirror Walking of troops and Dopplegangers, then resistance really would be impossible, as any sign of imminent failure brings the Nightlord in to fix the mess before it gets out of hand-thus the good guys would automatically LOSE and confrontation with a simple Doppleganger crwaling out of the mirror (an event implied to be scary/creepy but not beyond a new Nightbane)!

So SOMEBODY besides any given Nightlord is sending over all those Dopplegangers and other Minions, all over his/her area of control simultainiously on Dark Day! So who amounst the Nightlords' Minions can Mirror Walk themselves and/or others?

pretty sure dopplegangers can mirror walk on their own, just 2 limitations:

1) most of them are basically zombies. you have to wake them up before they are going to even think to choose to mirror walk.

2) if they are on the same side of the mirror wall as the person they are a doppleganger of (and that person is alive) for more than a certain time (24 hours iirc) they shrivel up and die.

My player just pointed this out today, but Guardians and their ability to heal. It says they can heal themselves or others once per round, but then in the same entry, only once per minute.

"Guardians can heal wounds at an amazing rate. This power can be used once per melee round on itself or on others <-> Activating this power counts as two melee actions/attacks, and it can only be done once every minute (4 melee rounds"

I ended up telling him he can heal others once per round, but only himself once a minute, but has there been any clarifications? I just started getting back into Nightbane. Sadly I wish I knew earlier how things were, as I sold all my books, only to now learn "Shadows of Light" is out-of-print and priced extremely high :/

Vidynn wrote:1) Dark Day Date Confusion

On page 11 of the rulesbook (RB) it is clearly stated that Dark Day occurred on March 6, 2000. But there are two passages that are obviously a mistake:

On page 7 of the RB the Wanderer says that it is "a year and a day" since Dark Day - the entry is dated May 8, 2001, which would make Dark Day May 7, 2000. This mistake is "supported" by RB pg 22 where it is said that some Seekers predicted Dark Day to happen in May 2000 (they did that six months prior to the invasion, as said in the text).

My guess is that those two paragraphs were simply overlooked in the final version, probably at one time Dark Day was supposed to happen in May, not March 2000.

This is clearly evidence that the Wanderer is a fabrication by the Seekers (or at least this so-called 'diary' of his was) meant to ret-con history. They are taking advantage of the panic to abuse alliteration to make modern records coincide with their prophecies. Seeing as how the Nightlords' government would probably be happy to have the public forget dark-day, hacking computer records that list the month would be simple enough, no?

Marcethus wrote:unique factors are what it takes for one to become a Wampyr IE either being a latent Nightbane or the something else in the intended victim. Who knows.

Pg 184 (upper left) 'Slow Kill' makes it pretty clear that Wampyrism is just some random thing that happens when Secondaries make more vampires. They can't be made by Masters or Wilds. The Strigoi (Shadows of Light) can also make Wampyrs, and do so at a slightly higher rate.

No mention under the Slow Kill of this only happening with Latents, or of Latents getting some kind of enhanced chance of Wampyrism, so that theory is pretty moot. So too is the bit about being 'strong willed' since the percentage chance of becoming a Wampyr isn't modified by ME. The theory about them being 'true innocents' or having 'pure souls' is also bunk. All three "possible explanations" that the occultists speculate about sound cool, but aren't supported by the rules on turning someone into a Wampyr.

A GM could of course rule at some kind of penalty to the percentile roll (which would decrease your chance of becoming a Wild, and increase your chance of becoming a Wampyr) based on one or even all three factors. Something like "subtract your ME" and "minus 10 if you're a Latent" and "minus 5 for Principled, 4 for Scrupulous/Taoist, 3 for Unprincipled, 2 for Anarchist, 1 for Miscreant/Aberrent" for example.

Vidynn wrote:5) Nightbane Abilities[/b] Please clarify, wether Nightbane can sense Latents or only Nightbane in both forms after the first Becoming.

They can, according to page 30, but only via the See Truth talent. This strongly implies that the normal Nightbane power of 'Supernatural Senses' wouldn't work.

Makes See Truth + Remove Facade (Nightlands pg 143) a potentially pretty good combo. Though I'm unclear if it would work. I think perhaps that the Facade/Morphus dichotomy does not actually exist until your first becoming, so a Latent's human form is NOT actually a 'facade', meaning I don't think you could force a Nightbane into awakening their abilities like this the way the Athanatos can with their own younglings.

filo_clarke wrote:The Equipment Pages desperately need to be re-written for the new millennium. $500 for a VCR? C'mon, I know that some people call them antiques, but no one's going to auction one at Southeby's.

They wete not $500 in the '90s either.
Now in the 80s they were expensive...6

Don't know if it was fixed in later printings but in Nightlands pg 32 under the list of Lilith's plans within the 'Too Real FXs' bullet point: the last line of the first paragraph says "The Nightbanes conquest and extermination'. I think it's supposed to say Nightlords given the context.

Maybe it refers to the Lords' conquest / extermination of Nightbane?

The best thing for exterminating Nightbane is conquering other Nightbane because that's the only way to find them in Facade form (Hounds can only detect them when they're supernatural beings in Morphus) and Bane-on-Bane detection has way better range than Hound smelling.

Axelmania wrote:The best thing for exterminating Nightbane is conquering other Nightbane...

I am reasonable certain that this never happens, though. It's been too long for me to remember where exactly, but I see to recall that Nightlords and their minions never, ever recruit Nightbane. If they have one, they kill one, period. Hunters never capture, and even Princes just slaughter. Personally I took this as either they know better (ie. had bad experiences in the past) or, more likely, have a sort of supernatural, instinctual desire that overcomes anything else to want to kill them.

Personally I took this as an acknowledgement that the Nightlords themselves are more supernatural evil predator types than Nightbane -- that whatever power they have, their minds have been seriously corrupted by it beyond reason. I liked this take a lot, which is why u remembered it.

I could picture an Ashmedai doing so, maybe, but they (1) are very smart, smarter on average than humans, and (2) would know better, since the Nightlords, if not a Hound Master, would probably summarily kill them for working with Nightbane at all. A rogue one, maybe, for its own reasons.

I'm usually loathe to bump such old threads, but since this one is stickied, I'll make an exception , just in case anyone else is looking for these answers.

UR Leader Hobbes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:18 pm The Ashmadi is listed has having "Supernatual" for Combat style. It can't learn any Hand to Hand combat skills. (I've just been assuming they have some equivelant of Martial Arts like Nightbane) But it would be good to actually get a ruling on this.

As far as I know, this has never been explained, but the Lizard King also has "Supernatural" combat style, except it specifies it has four attacks. It doesn't present this information as if it's standard, but it's something, at least.

GaredBattlespike wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:32 pmI have the older version of the game: Nightspawn, and I cannot find whether or not Dopplegangers, Hounds or even Hound Masters can Mirror Walk.
(...)
So who amounst the Nightlords' Minions can Mirror Walk themselves and/or others?

An FAQ in Rifter 48 specifics that Hounds, Hunters, and Hound Masters (no, wait, sorry, it specifies Houndmasters instead) can mirrorwalk, but Doppelgangers cannot, "illustrations aside". No mention of whether Ashmedai, Namtar, or anything described in other books can do so.

Sanctu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:01 pm

Axelmania wrote:The best thing for exterminating Nightbane is conquering other Nightbane...

I am reasonable certain that this never happens, though. It's been too long for me to remember where exactly, but I see to recall that Nightlords and their minions never, ever recruit Nightbane. If they have one, they kill one, period. Hunters never capture, and even Princes just slaughter. Personally I took this as either they know better (ie. had bad experiences in the past) or, more likely, have a sort of supernatural, instinctual desire that overcomes anything else to want to kill them.

Specifically, the core rulebook says that Nightbane who offer their services to the Nightlords are usually eliminated. This suggests that exceptions may exist, though this would be so gamebreaking (and difficult to combat) that I would personally recommend thinking twice before GMs make use of it.