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I've been paying closer attention to the Demon Hunter category, namely their circle magic and what it can do...

Banishment back to hell (pg 26) notes something interesting:

• if the demon that leads/commands them (typically a Greater Demon) is banished to Hades, ALL the Lesser and Sub-Demons that served him, even
  those outside the circle, get no saving throw and are banished

This denotes a mystical component and connection between master (leader/commander) and servant/follower.

I guess what I'm wondering here is, how would we go about establishing that link?

Unless there's some actual act to designate that relationship (maybe a greater demon who can summon a lesser demon using a spell or natural ability) what if demons are just considered informally working together to avoid this kind of mystical mass-deportation?

IE a demon lord sends 100 alu "hey listen to what this Archfiend says, but he's not technically your leader, I am" to avoid the problem of the alu getting deported when the archfiend gets trapped in the circle.

Who knows what fielty lurks in the hearts of demons? The circle knows!!! Hahahaha...

Seriously, it is magic. It's not science. It just does what it does. Rule-lawyering is far beneath any demon lord to engage in.

GM makes the call on behalf of the circle... and, yeah, that may mean a traitorous or independent demon may be left behind for the PCs to deal with... if the story requires it.

Well when a mommy demon and a daddy demon love each other very muuuuuuch.....

But more seriously like with many rules in Palladium I don't think they thought much of the back end of 'how does it work' and just does.

Now that doesn't mean you can't make a whole game it out like that, but I'd also think greater demons wouldn't (generally) WANT to give up control like that and let their minions run free if they got kicked out of it.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote: Fri May 23, 2025 4:50 pm But more seriously like with many rules in Palladium I don't think they thought much of the back end of 'how does it work' and just does.

Now that doesn't mean you can't make a whole game it out like that, but I'd also think greater demons wouldn't (generally) WANT to give up control like that and let their minions run free if they got kicked out of it.

Daniel Stoker

Yup. I'd agree with that.

I'd add that there are a bunch of lesser known rules that could be modified to influence how a GM runs demon NPCs. I'm thinking of from Rifts where there are rules in HoH that impact how demons react when you defeat their leader.

Just like in movies, when the boss is killed, their underlings slink away and heroes rejoice. Same thing here, it could be overt control by the boss demon or it could simply be an effect that the authors of the spell would make things more cinematic.

What I'm thinking is maybe there ought to be some kind of mystic bond where in exchange for the problem of your minions getting auto-deported you get some better control over them or something.

Like a micro-Ensorcel of sorts.

Plane wrote: Sat May 24, 2025 6:36 pm What I'm thinking is maybe there ought to be some kind of mystic bond where in exchange for the problem of your minions getting auto-deported you get some better control over them or something.

Like a micro-Ensorcel of sorts.

I like the idea... maybe more like a minor pact between demons.

hey maybe demons found some way to Love Charm each other and that's what does it

Oh lordy, don't bring that here please.


Daniel Stoker

Or a demonic version of faerie food that imposes a state of subservience or loyalty...

I would imagine it as more of a hierarchy than any other kind of bond. you take out the general and the battle is over.

Maybe we could invent something as simple as: in order to establish this bond, the lesser demon must swear on their true name an oath of loyalty to their leader. It may be considered by demon hierarchy as a mainly symbolic gesture, but ties in to this effect. It also makes desertion and defection harder to do (I guess swearing an oath to a new leader wipes out the old one). A GM could rule that a "leader" may have some temporary minions assigned to them for a specific task (or loaned from another demon) that may not have taken an oath - or perhaps even temps are expected to swear an oath of allegiance, and then swear back to their previous master when their job is done?

Plane wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 12:05 am IE a demon lord sends 100 alu "hey listen to what this Archfiend says, but he's not technically your leader, I am" to avoid the problem of the alu getting deported when the archfiend gets trapped in the circle.

What's an Alu Demon doing taking orders from an Archfiend Deevil?! Traitors!!!