Forums of the Megaverse®

So i distinctly remember reading in a book somewhere about that crazy lonestar geneticist creating modified and augmented super humans in secret by splicing in supernatural genetics to human embryos. I mean it was like a large section in a book, complete with gear, psychology profiles, pros and cons of the process and a new specific martial art combat style for them. But for the life of me i cannot find it in my collection. Can any one point me to the book this information is in or did i have a really intense and realistic dream a few years ago?

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:So i distinctly remember reading in a book somewhere about that crazy lonestar geneticist creating modified and augmented super humans in secret by splicing in supernatural genetics to human embryos. I mean it was like a large section in a book, complete with gear, psychology profiles, pros and cons of the process and a new specific martial art combat style for them. But for the life of me i cannot find it in my collection. Can any one point me to the book this information is in or did i have a really intense and realistic dream a few years ago?

No, that stuff's in a Rifter. They're called Janissaries, for some reason.
Along with a lot of other munchkinnery.
There were a lot of really good Rifter articles, but then there were a lot of CS fanboy wet dreams.

Janissaries were before Psi-Stalkers could turn MDC on ley lines though, so even though they're still relatively overpowered, they don't seem AS overpowered by comparison and are actually more of a plausible idea now.

I could especially see something like this happening if the CS ever had closer ties with the New Navy and studied the .... whatever Nemo is called .. Sea Titans

Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

Hoenstly i dont find cs munchkinry all that obnoxious. We were gonna get it somewhere, and having a lot of it grouped in one area is convenient. Makes it easier to ignore or work around. Besides, i dont think of many things in rifts as being overpowered or munchkin. Game balance was never in the cards, as the setting doesnt even try for equivalence. And im happy for that. It means i never have to worry about balance as a dm, i just pick a level of power and tell my players to choose class in that general area of power.

Besides, if you want to see real munchkinry, import a splicers house into rifts. I love that particular power fantasy.

Edit: anyone has the rifter issue handy? I have 80 to look through and even a general number would help. Im making my own genetically modified humans and want to compare and contrast multiple sources to avoid/mitigate powercreep.

jaymz wrote:Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

You can't say:
"This isn't overpowered because this other thing is more powerful."

The Janissaries are overpowered and the Sea Titans are just as munchie.

HWalsh wrote:

jaymz wrote:Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

You can't say:
"This isn't overpowered because this other thing is more powerful."

The Janissaries are overpowered and the Sea Titans are just as munchie.

Could be worse, Sea Inquizitors with a large sdc machine gun and silver ammo can turn a vampire intelligence into chunky salsa in only a couple of rounds.

HWalsh wrote:

jaymz wrote:Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

You can't say:
"This isn't overpowered because this other thing is more powerful."

The Janissaries are overpowered and the Sea Titans are just as munchie.

Bruh, half the rccs in rifts make sea titans look like anemic kittens. The other half make humans look like demigods.

There is no scale.

That said, i have been doin some side by side comparisons and the janissary blows the sea titan out of the water in every single respect. Also the true atlantean, the amazon, the lemurian and the neo-human. You know, only all the explicit super humans i could find in a quick scan of my books. The only exceptions being amazons are all mystics, being split caster/psychics on top of their supernatural physicality, and neo-humans who are all master psychics with some neat powers. But the janissary still has significantly better stats and mdc all around than the lot of them, even undead slayers at early levels. And while lemurians and atlantians have really great gear, occs, or powers the janissaries also come with bs gear than is way too strong, like power armor equivalent armor and combat robot equivalent weapons.

this is why i consider all rifters non-canon. well part of the reason why. the CS articles all seem to form a single great argument for why i will not allow them at my table without my explict go-ahead when i run a game.

Honestly the rifter has a lot of really great stuff. It mostly the coalition that should be basically non cannon. Its obviously kevins baby tho.

HWalsh wrote:

jaymz wrote:Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

You can't say:
"This isn't overpowered because this other thing is more powerful."

The Janissaries are overpowered and the Sea Titans are just as munchie.

You're allowed to have a wrong opinion.

I said no more overpowered as well not that they weren't. Reading comprehension is your friend.

jaymz wrote:

HWalsh wrote:

jaymz wrote:Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

You can't say:
"This isn't overpowered because this other thing is more powerful."

The Janissaries are overpowered and the Sea Titans are just as munchie.

You're allowed to have a wrong opinion.

I said no more overpowered as well not that they weren't. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Well its a good thing you're open to wrong opinions, because not only is the sea titan not overpowered, its not even actually powerful to begin with. Id say the janissary is though.

Sea titans have completely human stats except for the supernatural strength and endurance. Barely have enough mdc to match medium armor equivilence, and deal about as much damage in melee as a laser pistol. That not what i would call strong, much less impressive. Its so far from what id call over powered that im laughing a bit about it.

Take a good hard look at both overall and you'll find they more comparable than you think.

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:Besides, if you want to see real munchkinry, import a splicers house into rifts. I love that particular power fantasy.

splicers great houses are only powerful when taken out of context.

their opponent is an insane machine hell-bent on their destruction with essentially unlimited resources to spend. if it was a serious war instead of their opponents thinking it's fun to toy with them, they'd all be little more than a greasy smear of genetically modified goo.

Shark_Force wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:Besides, if you want to see real munchkinry, import a splicers house into rifts. I love that particular power fantasy.

splicers great houses are only powerful when taken out of context.

their opponent is an insane machine hell-bent on their destruction with essentially unlimited resources to spend. if it was a serious war instead of their opponents thinking it's fun to toy with them, they'd all be little more than a greasy smear of genetically modified goo.

if something "only seems overpowered because the setting is even MORE overpowered" it's overpowered and you should be apologizing for trying to go full superman when everyone else was trying to keep things spiderman.

Eh, splicers definately have their weaknesses and would struggle on rifts earth if not played both smart and well, though they can get some big numbers.

Sidenote, if you are trying to play spiderman when you have been told to play superman, thats your problem. Likewise, trying to play superman when you have been told to aim for spiderman is a you problem. There is no inherent scale to rifts, if the gm doesnt tell you to stick to a powerlevel, or give you any idea what campaign level you should be at, thats a them problem. A cosmoknight cant unbalance any campaign unless the gm is stupid, i'd say the same for a sea titan. And no, the sea titan doesnt even touch high level play.

As another side

jaymz wrote:

HWalsh wrote:

jaymz wrote:Janissaries are no more overpowered than sea titans from underseas and the sea titans came first.

You can't say:
"This isn't overpowered because this other thing is more powerful."

The Janissaries are overpowered and the Sea Titans are just as munchie.

You're allowed to have a wrong opinion.

I said no more overpowered as well not that they weren't. Reading comprehension is your friend.

The main difference between the Lone Str Janissaries and the Sea Titans is that the Titans are full canon where Rifter Optional.
I do like the STs better. The LSJ are just a bit of blatant power creep, and goes crosswise with the CS stance forbidding genetic augmentation and the LS head reasurcher's anti-magic stance as set forth in the Machinations of Doom sourcebook.

Emerald MoonSilver wrote:Sea Inquizitors with a large sdc machine gun and silver ammo can turn a vampire intelligence into chunky salsa in only a couple of rounds.

Unless it's smart enough to just lurk within the earth like an elemental since it doesn't need to breathe.

Vamps really should be doing that a lot. If you had MD claw attacks digging should be easier than it is for Inabu Ui

Axelmania wrote:

Emerald MoonSilver wrote:Sea Inquizitors with a large sdc machine gun and silver ammo can turn a vampire intelligence into chunky salsa in only a couple of rounds.

Unless it's smart enough to just lurk within the earth like an elemental since it doesn't need to breathe.

Vamps really should be doing that a lot. If you had MD claw attacks digging should be easier than it is for Inabu Ui

if they're deep enough the bullets can't reach 'em, they're deep enough they can't reach what's firing the bullets. or did you assume the earth would somehow tighly pack itself over then after they dig themselves the hole?

Orin J. wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:Besides, if you want to see real munchkinry, import a splicers house into rifts. I love that particular power fantasy.

splicers great houses are only powerful when taken out of context.

their opponent is an insane machine hell-bent on their destruction with essentially unlimited resources to spend. if it was a serious war instead of their opponents thinking it's fun to toy with them, they'd all be little more than a greasy smear of genetically modified goo.

if something "only seems overpowered because the setting is even MORE overpowered" it's overpowered and you should be apologizing for trying to go full superman when everyone else was trying to keep things spiderman.

... see, here's the thing.

in the setting for which the splicers characters were made, you are supposed to be going "full superman" (or the equivalent except in a category other than raw physical power). nobody is supposed to go full spiderman in the setting. so I have no idea what you're complaining about.

in the context that they're supposed to be viewed in, a splicers character can only be described as being like superman if we assume that lex luthor has hundreds of millions (if not billions) of regular hired goons that can punch superman to death with their bare hands, and also can huck rocks hard enough to kill him from thousands of feet away and can run as fast as the flash to be able to chase superman down and reinforce quickly any time he tries to do anything, and also lex has hundreds of thousands of more powerful goons that could accidentally vapourize superman by farting in his general direction whilst trying to mock him in a manner suggesting they are monty python fans. and, while we're at it, lex luthor is also brainiac, except there are already seven copies of him, more can be made at any moment, and if you do manage to hurt him he can instantly inhabit any number of other bodies scattered in nigh-impenetrable strongholds located all across the globe.

if you bring them into rifts, that's *your* fault, and your problem.

if everybody is super, then nobody is super. and in the splicers setting, everybody is quite super.

Shark_Force wrote:

Orin J. wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:Besides, if you want to see real munchkinry, import a splicers house into rifts. I love that particular power fantasy.

splicers great houses are only powerful when taken out of context.

their opponent is an insane machine hell-bent on their destruction with essentially unlimited resources to spend. if it was a serious war instead of their opponents thinking it's fun to toy with them, they'd all be little more than a greasy smear of genetically modified goo.

if something "only seems overpowered because the setting is even MORE overpowered" it's overpowered and you should be apologizing for trying to go full superman when everyone else was trying to keep things spiderman.

... see, here's the thing.

in the setting for which the splicers characters were made, you are supposed to be going "full superman" (or the equivalent except in a category other than raw physical power). nobody is supposed to go full spiderman in the setting. so I have no idea what you're complaining about.

in the context that they're supposed to be viewed in, a splicers character can only be described as being like superman if we assume that lex luthor has hundreds of millions (if not billions) of regular hired goons that can punch superman to death with their bare hands, and also can huck rocks hard enough to kill him from thousands of feet away and can run as fast as the flash to be able to chase superman down and reinforce quickly any time he tries to do anything, and also lex has hundreds of thousands of more powerful goons that could accidentally vapourize superman by farting in his general direction whilst trying to mock him in a manner suggesting they are monty python fans. and, while we're at it, lex luthor is also brainiac, except there are already seven copies of him, more can be made at any moment, and if you do manage to hurt him he can instantly inhabit any number of other bodies scattered in nigh-impenetrable strongholds located all across the globe.

if you bring them into rifts, that's *your* fault, and your problem.

if everybody is super, then nobody is super. and in the splicers setting, everybody is quite super.

Orin J. wrote:if something "only seems overpowered because the setting is even MORE overpowered" it's overpowered and you should be apologizing for trying to go full superman when everyone else was trying to keep things spiderman.

why, precisely did you prove my point by making a more labored version of the strawman i quoted making the point? we're talking about how broken it would be in rifts. that's.....that's the whole point. did that slip past you?

Shark_force really has the right of it for the most part. I'd add that a splicer going full superman is still well below the level of anything i'd consider full superman in rifts. I'd only consider a splicer to be very high powered if it were very highly specialized, and we all know what happens to overspecialized pcs. They have a lot of legitimate weaknesses and limitations, and i'd only consider them OP if i also viewed things like sea titans OP. And as stated above, i really very much dont. That said, if someone brings superman to a spiderman campaign, thats on them and the gm equally. The gm needs to set guidelines for both what they and the players can expect, and the players need to adhere to them. Rifts in and of itself as a setting, as previously stated, has no scaling. Nothing is over or underpowered really, because rifts isnt that kind of game. You pick a genre, you pick appropriate characters for that genre, you play. Its not dnd where everyone has the same expectations and adventures, because the game can literally only do one thing.

As to orin j, learn about something before talking about it. Or read for comprehention. Splicers would absolutely not be overpowered in rifts. Its been said before. If you arent aware i will explain. They hit mid tier on average, and highly specialized splicers breach high tier. They have power armor equivilent attack and defense at the high end and are largely biological. This comes with positives, negatives, and limitations. They have regeration yeah, but it isnt fast. They have pretty strong ranged attacks, but only on weapons that have very limited ammo. Like when you empty your clip the only way to reload is to eat a full meal and wait for it to digest before getting into another gunfight. They are pretty decent in melee too. But if they dont specialize they never get strong. And if they specialize they give themselves more weaknesses to exploit. I wouldnt throw one at a newbie gm, but i wouldnt hesitate to throw one at an amateur.

Frankly if anyone has issues with with how "overpowered" things are then maybe its not the game it's you....

Rifts has NEVER been a virtue of balance and low to medium gaming right from day one. You can play a vagabond, a Glitterboy and a Hatch;ling dragon just using the bloody core book. Yet I repeatedly see people moaning and whining how stuff is over powered this or overpowered that.

Go play a different game then since apparently THIS game REALLY isn't going to be your thing.

Orin J. wrote:if they're deep enough the bullets can't reach 'em, they're deep enough they can't reach what's firing the bullets

That's what astral projection is for

Orin J. wrote:did you assume the earth would somehow tighly pack itself over then after they dig themselves the hole?

Tunnels have a tendency to collapse if dug deep enough and unsupported.

Maybe not "tightly" but it's still cover.

Plus they could always have their vampire minions trample the earth. They have supernatural PS so they can probably stomp it down pretty hard.

jaymz wrote:Frankly if anyone has issues with with how "overpowered" things are then maybe its not the game it's you....

Rifts has NEVER been a virtue of balance and low to medium gaming right from day one. You can play a vagabond, a Glitterboy and a Hatch;ling dragon just using the bloody core book. Yet I repeatedly see people moaning and whining how stuff is over powered this or overpowered that.

Go play a different game then since apparently THIS game REALLY isn't going to be your thing.

Uh, how about no. You're confusing "Stuff in the core book" to "Hey, let me play a temporal wizard!"

There is a difference between something out of RUE and something out of SA2.

Maybe you should stop trying to grab the most OP thing you can imagine and simply be happy with something from a base book?

HWalsh wrote:You're confusing "Stuff in the core book" to "Hey, let me play a temporal wizard!"

Temporal Wizards aren't as unbalanced (ie start with high level spells) compared to main ones now that RUE gave the core book ones a boost.

HWalsh wrote:There is a difference between something out of RUE and something out of SA2.

That depends entirely on which thing from which book you're talking about.

There are things in SA2 inferior to the new dragon hatchlings, for example. Plus the Glitter Boy can still trounce a lot of the new PAs/bots.

The power balance complaints are more along the lines of other stuff like the CS compared to SA powers. But I don't really see the trouble, it explains why CS hasn't just conquered SA.

Fenris2020 wrote:

Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:So i distinctly remember reading in a book somewhere about that crazy lonestar geneticist creating modified and augmented super humans in secret by splicing in supernatural genetics to human embryos. I mean it was like a large section in a book, complete with gear, psychology profiles, pros and cons of the process and a new specific martial art combat style for them. But for the life of me i cannot find it in my collection. Can any one point me to the book this information is in or did i have a really intense and realistic dream a few years ago?

No, that stuff's in a Rifter. They're called Janissaries, for some reason.
Along with a lot of other munchkinnery.
There were a lot of really good Rifter articles, but then there were a lot of CS fanboy wet dreams.

Generally speaking, I tend to feel the same way.

Every now and then though, I see something, the vacuum balloon radio network thing is a good example, that I really enjoy as a unique approach to solving problems within the limitations the setting presents.