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Well, I was wondering about the size of the parchment and the script on magical scrolls. Surely, if a Jotan makes a scroll, it's going to be much larger than a scroll made by a gnome. Would the Jotan be able to read the gnome scroll without magnification? Does the scroll automatically increase its font size for any reader? How small can a scroll be? Could it be the size of a postage stamp, or even smaller?

This seems like a great tool for a spy. You could have scrolls of various types written on tiny scraps of paper that you could only read with some manner of magnifying glass. If an alchemist cast Reduce Self on him or herself, and then created a scroll, that thing could be really tiny.

-Vek
"It would be 'scroll down' to reduce the size and 'scroll up' to increase the size."

Microdot scrolls lol, 1960'sish based cold warish private detective/spy adventure set in the western empire could be a lot of fun.

But normally you would think so, but palladium is very humancentric, but its written in the language of choice, so I don't see why it wouldn't, and the requirement to read, is to read, so if the jotan has microscope yet again i'd be fine with it.

- I use the calibri font at size 45 rather than 11, but i don't use italics or .

Scrolls do not automaticly resize to fit the reader.
there is no text saying how big or small a scroll has to be like in Pathfinder.


opinions (1st two are based on the canon text, the third would be just a house rule)
The smallest a scroll can be is as small as a mage can manually (pen/pencil/other writing implement) write the scroll.
A computer's printer is not a writing implement.
If the scroll is on the person when they are resized, if the personal effects are resized also then the scroll is also resized.

3"*5"

I don't have hard numbers for you, but I tend to assume most scrolls are about the size of a sheet of A4/8.5"*11" paper. Not for any particular reason, but because that's the size I figure things to be.

Mark Hall wrote:3"*5"

I don't have hard numbers for you, but I tend to assume most scrolls are about the size of a sheet of A4/8.5"*11" paper. Not for any particular reason, but because that's the size I figure things to be.

See, human sized. I go by about a4 size for the wielder, otherwise as you mentioned a giant or a gnome would look odd.

@Drewkitty There is no writing of a scroll, wizards cannot create scrolls (says so in the book). The way to get scrolls is by the spell which just magically appears on the paper and has no size limit, so I guess you could make it as big or small as you like.


Scroll production is a joke. It costs 800-1200 gp for a lvl 1 scroll even though it costs a minimum of 100 ppe to make.

kiralon wrote:Scroll production is a joke. It costs 800-1200 gp for a lvl 1 scroll even though it costs a minimum of 100 ppe to make.

It is very different coming from other game systems. I see it as a part of spell knowledge that was lost during/just after the Elf Dwarf wars. The high level of the scroll creation spell being an indicator of rarity rather than difficulty. Obviously it is something jealously guarded by Alchemists to keep the non-divine scroll market to themselves.

Keep in mind that clergy can pray for scrolls through Prayer of Intervention, unless that is just something from 1E. I think the only thing we really have about scroll size is that they have to be legible (I would assume to the creator), otherwise you can't use them. I could definitely see that being different based on the species involved in creating the scrolls. I'm now imagining some abnormal faerie somewhere that studied magic putting out scrolls that aren't quite small enough for the words to be engraved on the head of a pin.

Kraynic wrote:

kiralon wrote:Scroll production is a joke. It costs 800-1200 gp for a lvl 1 scroll even though it costs a minimum of 100 ppe to make.

It is very different coming from other game systems. I see it as a part of spell knowledge that was lost during/just after the Elf Dwarf wars. The high level of the scroll creation spell being an indicator of rarity rather than difficulty. Obviously it is something jealously guarded by Alchemists to keep the non-divine scroll market to themselves.

Keep in mind that clergy can pray for scrolls through Prayer of Intervention, unless that is just something from 1E. I think the only thing we really have about scroll size is that they have to be legible (I would assume to the creator), otherwise you can't use them. I could definitely see that being different based on the species involved in creating the scrolls. I'm now imagining some abnormal faerie somewhere that studied magic putting out scrolls that aren't quite small enough for the words to be engraved on the head of a pin.

The scroll creator has to be able to read, but it is created in the language of his choice that he can read.
Its is magically created so it would have to be legible or the spell would be useless
The prayer of intervention still does it to no cost to the caster

100 ppe would take a few days of rest to recover, the lvl of the spell isn't as much an issue as the ppe cost, as the spells might as well be an alphabetical list.

Just a minior point,
The scroll has to be made in a language the mage is Literate (read and write) in.
The reader only needs to be able to read the language.

Recovering 100 PPE,
(note the next has been argued over) if on a LL or LLN the mage can recover their PPE in a matter of an hour or so. If he is consentrating on gathering the PPE. Up to the mage's total base PPE without getting into 'temp PPE' or 'overcharge PPE'. Thou this presumes that the mage lives on or near a LL/LLN for this option to be used.

(the other side argues that any PPE gathered from LL or LLN is always temp- or overcharge PPE.)

Hmm, I thought the book said you get back 10 ppe per half an hour on a ley line without meditation.
Would be interesting to see how many cities and towns are on ley lines, but the fact that the cost of spending 100+ ppe everwhere except some ley lines would likely mean its cheaper there, but the 1000 gold for the scroll doesn't seem to match the price per ppe scale, that's a big chunk out of any wizards week, and a bit illogical, but needing a spell to make a scroll that is fully formed is a bit silly then too. Wizards don't need a spell book, don't write scrolls. Why do they always have writing implements about. Some wizards study but also some just run around setting towns on fire.

Well, the sneaky I idea I had was for an alchemist to cast "Reduce Self" on him or herself and then write the scroll down on as tiny a piece of paper as he or she can manage. Then you could have that tiny scroll secreted away and if you needed it you could use some sort of magnifying lens to read it. The alternate would be someone making a scroll so large that it is area carpet size or larger. It wouldn't seem like a scroll and someone could have it lying on their floor in case of an emergency.

-Vek
"Also, how long does it take to make a scroll and what's the maximum magnification of lenses in the Palladium world?"

Both sounds like a cool idea. The scrolls aren't written, its just a bit of paper sitting there waiting for the words to be placed magically on the paper, and with no size or other restrictions other than being able to read I wouldn't see why not. I'd certainly allow it.

Its takes 3 actions to cast so 1-2 rounds unless you count create scroll as summing\creation(seems to point more towards golem making and the like) and then its 1d6x10+15 minutes

Veknironth wrote:Well, the sneaky I idea I had was for an alchemist to cast "Reduce Self" on him or herself and then write the scroll down on as tiny a piece of paper as he or she can manage. Then you could have that tiny scroll secreted away and if you needed it you could use some sort of magnifying lens to read it. The alternate would be someone making a scroll so large that it is area carpet size or larger. It wouldn't seem like a scroll and someone could have it lying on their floor in case of an emergency.

-Vek
"Also, how long does it take to make a scroll and what's the maximum magnification of lenses in the Palladium world?"

Create magic scroll is an 11th level spell, so it takes two melee rounds to cast (using the PFRPG main book rules). Or 1D6x10+15 minutes if cast as a ritual (create magic scroll can be either).

As long as the mage creating the scroll can read the words it looks like the size can be whatever they like (depending on the size of paper available). I assume that means with the naked eye, but I guess it is open to interpretation (if you create a scroll while holding a magnifying glass can you make the words smaller?). Even if magnification during creation is not permitted, a mage with particularly good eyesight might be able to make the scroll so small that the average person would need some sort of magnification to read it. Are there any races with particularly good "close up" or microscopic vision?

If you have a scroll laid out on the floor like a paper carpet, one day you might accidentally glance at the first word and therefore begin to "read" it. if you start to read a scroll but don't continue the words disappear and the spell is lost.

kiralon wrote:Hmm, I thought the book said you get back 10 ppe per half an hour on a ley line without meditation.
Would be interesting to see how many cities and towns are on ley lines, but the fact that the cost of spending 100+ ppe everwhere except some ley lines would likely mean its cheaper there, but the 1000 gold for the scroll doesn't seem to match the price per ppe scale, that's a big chunk out of any wizards week, and a bit illogical, but needing a spell to make a scroll that is fully formed is a bit silly then too. Wizards don't need a spell book, don't write scrolls. Why do they always have writing implements about. Some wizards study but also some just run around setting towns on fire.

If you're in a city, there's a lot of options for gathering PPE, though.

Sit in a tavern (or on your balcony) and borrow some from all the customers and passersby.

Go to a slaughterhouse and absorb it from the beasts.

Yes, 10 PPE every 1/2 hour on a LL. (opposed to the 10 per melee on rifts earth).

Gathering from others is another option in the PF setting. None of that 'the target has to know your doing it' rule of RUE's.

Still, it's pretty cheap for getting a level 11 spell cast. All other spells that high cost heaps more.

kiralon wrote:Still, it's pretty cheap for getting a level 11 spell cast. All other spells that high cost heaps more.

They did sort of ballanced it out so the char could have enough PPE to store with the spell.
(create scroll PPE)+(spell PPE)=total PPE