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In an effort to make character creation take slightly less than a week, our group has decided to house rule the skill system. We think it also make skills much more useful in actual game play. Link below for those interested.


New Skill System

Thanks for this. This was really cool and informative.

With such a sodium-rich document, you'll want to watch your blood pressure and check for fluid retention periodically.
At a glance, your system seems to make sense. I downloaded a copy for possible future use.

in one aspect its an interesting redo/take on the skills, but to be honest I don't like it because I despise the D20 ripoff aspect. I actually think that the d20 game system is a rather lame game design in many ways.

the one point I will give you credit for, is you reduced part of the biggest issue IMO with d20 which is not enough skill points in general. (I still don't get why rogues get 8 sp/level plus IQ mod, and half the classes only get 2 because we all know a fighter and a mage have no need to actually know anything right?

guardiandashi wrote:in one aspect its an interesting redo/take on the skills, but to be honest I don't like it because I despise the D20 ripoff aspect. I actually think that the d20 game system is a rather lame game design in many ways.

the one point I will give you credit for, is you reduced part of the biggest issue IMO with d20 which is not enough skill points in general. (I still don't get why rogues get 8 sp/level plus IQ mod, and half the classes only get 2 because we all know a fighter and a mage have no need to actually know anything right?

Agreed on all points. However, I could see using a streamlined system like this one for Heroes Unlimited. I wouldn't use it for any of the other PB games, but I would entertain the idea for HU. It lends itself better to the high powered, larger-than-life characters than the standard d%-based skill system does.

wow pretty hostile pdf as it stands.

I love the idea of streamlining skills, seriously. I think though, it needs to be done Eclipse Phase style though.

Don't know why my replies are missing.

I think the link was extremely hostile. I even wonder if it violates forum rules. It's hostility also turned me off so that I didn't get past the first page.

Personally I'd prefer more skills. I think more skills helps to round out characters. They're also more true to life. "Skill categories" might give one an advantage over someone without any skill at all but that doesn't mean a person who's only driven a car with an automatic transmission can drive one with a stick. Sure they can steer the car but getting it to where they're supposed to go..? Safely? Just because someone can do digital photography doesn't mean that they can develop film nor can someone who can develop film be able to use a computer. Just because a person can play a harmonica doesn't mean they can play a flute even though they're both wind instruments. A person might not even be able to play the same instrument when changing clefs on the sheet music. I know from experience the fingering is different for horns. But "skill categories" says I should be able to play both with no problems. It also means that all characters end up being the same since they can all do everything.

I think there should be some skills that are generic and could possibly cover most of the category but also specific skills for those wanting to specialize or distinguish their characters from others. I also think though that there should be a bonus if the character wants to learn more than one as they're not starting completely over.

its missing because they moved the forum over from a few days ago.

zerombr wrote:its missing because they moved the forum over from a few days ago.

Oh okay. Thank you.

Been using these rules in my campaign for a couple months now. They work really well. And it cuts down character creation time to less than 20 minutes. Doing just the skills the old way took me longer than that, making NPCs a pain to create. And the broad skill set makes the characters much more flexible. To me, this makes it much more cinematic and heroic. But then again, if I want realistic, I would not be playing a role playing game.

Like the idea. I definitely would love us to move in the direction that the Eight Attributes actually
mean more in character creation and contribute more to the actual game. How do you roll
play a M.A. of 10. What does it mean to have an I.Q. 9-15? And I can't describe how much I hate
those HU 2nd edition skill programs and they are really obsolete for N&SS. A Telephone Hacker is
no longer the spy disguised as a repairman who puts a "bug" in your landline phone or climbs up
the telephone pole outside the villains lair and taps the line. A Telephone Hacker in this day and
age is a guy who steals your cellular device.

The biggest obstacle we have at Palladium Books is 40+ years of sourcebooks that can be made
instantly obsolete by creating an entirely new rule system. That makes a warehouse full of 40
years of sourcebooks devalued. WotC (Hasbro with $5.21 billion and 5000 employees (2017) and
Paizo can do that. They just decide to update their line and stop supporting older editions. Who
cares if you have 500,000 unsold copies of 4th edition books at such and such price. Palldium is
6-7 people and punch of freelance writers and artists.

That's why its always cool to see people house rule the product in way that makes it work for
them.

strtkwr wrote:Been using these rules in my campaign for a couple months now. They work really well. And it cuts down character creation time to less than 20 minutes. Doing just the skills the old way took me longer than that, making NPCs a pain to create. And the broad skill set makes the characters much more flexible. To me, this makes it much more cinematic and heroic. But then again, if I want realistic, I would not be playing a role playing game.

I can understand speeding up the creation of NPCs but I still prefer to have as many skills as possible for characters. A broad skill set just means everyone has the same skills. Everyone might as well play "the Bard" with 50 character sheets available.

Reagren Wright wrote:Like the idea. I definitely would love us to move in the direction that the Eight Attributes actually
mean more in character creation and contribute more to the actual game. How do you roll
play a M.A. of 10. What does it mean to have an I.Q. 9-15? And I can't describe how much I hate
those HU 2nd edition skill programs and they are really obsolete for N&SS. A Telephone Hacker is
no longer the spy disguised as a repairman who puts a "bug" in your landline phone or climbs up
the telephone pole outside the villains lair and taps the line. A Telephone Hacker in this day and
age is a guy who steals your cellular device.

How would you normally play them? The higher the number the more charismatic and smarter the character is.

I don't mind skill programs but I do agree N&SS could use a good updating. Lots of skills can. I wouldn't get rid of everything though. They could be used by an older character or in an area that isn't as advanced.

The biggest obstacle we have at Palladium Books is 40+ years of sourcebooks that can be made
instantly obsolete by creating an entirely new rule system. That makes a warehouse full of 40
years of sourcebooks devalued. WotC (Hasbro with $5.21 billion and 5000 employees (2017) and
Paizo can do that. They just decide to update their line and stop supporting older editions. Who
cares if you have 500,000 unsold copies of 4th edition books at such and such price. Palldium is
6-7 people and punch of freelance writers and artists.

That's why its always cool to see people house rule the product in way that makes it work for
them.

I don't see 40+ years of sourcebooks as a problem. I see it as a good thing. I can also understand frustration with companies that just toss all of that to change things. Any changes to the rules shouldn't be so major as to obsolete older books.

the rules may change but yeah there's no reason for the history or theme to change.

Oh no I'm advocating we get rid of 40 years of history. In fact it's the one thing that seperates
Palladium from the rest of the pack. It gives us a major distinction and the niche market.
However, if you waiting for Yin Sloth Jungle 2nd edition to come out, we need to get sell off the
last copies of 1st edition.

How would you normally play them? The higher the number the more charismatic and
smarter the character is.

Yeah but you the player are creating the persona and speaking the words. If I'm the GM
and I tell you your Elf character who has a MA of 5 has to negotiate a deal between you and the
scabbard maker it up to you to come with what words your going to say. Now I suppose if
you have a MA of 20 you can roll trust/intimidate, but you still need to tell me the G.M. what your
saying.

Now suppose you used your MA like this. You double the attribute number and have to roll under
it as a percentile number, and maybe you have a skill or two that adds +10% to it, then your MA
is contributing to something your character is doing. Then you and I (the G.M.) don't have to role
play it (if we don't want too). I say roll your MA when you talk to the scabbard maker, you roll a
10. I say you successful negotiate the deal. With that being your base number then whatever you
say I could also add numbers to it.

The same thing could be done with all skills. Double the I.Q. and add bonuses based on race,
O.C.C, and other factors. Now everyone I.Q. gets to be a part of the role playing experience.
Making every character unique. Even if your character doesn't know a skill I could use say roll
I.Q. to see if your character can make a guess. Keep the simplicity but don't go in the direction of
other companies before or after us.

Reagren Wright wrote:Oh no I'm advocating we get rid of 40 years of history. In fact it's the one thing that seperates
Palladium from the rest of the pack. It gives us a major distinction and the niche market.
However, if you waiting for Yin Sloth Jungle 2nd edition to come out, we need to get sell off the
last copies of 1st edition.

But we're not buying 1st Ed Yin Sloth because we want it for 2nd Ed...

Reagren Wright wrote:How would you normally play them? The higher the number the more charismatic and
smarter the character is.

Yeah but you the player are creating the persona and speaking the words. If I'm the GM
and I tell you your Elf character who has a MA of 5 has to negotiate a deal between you and the
scabbard maker it up to you to come with what words your going to say. Now I suppose if
you have a MA of 20 you can roll trust/intimidate, but you still need to tell me the G.M. what your
saying.

Now suppose you used your MA like this. You double the attribute number and have to roll under
it as a percentile number, and maybe you have a skill or two that adds +10% to it, then your MA
is contributing to something your character is doing. Then you and I (the G.M.) don't have to role
play it (if we don't want too). I say roll your MA when you talk to the scabbard maker, you roll a
10. I say you successful negotiate the deal. With that being your base number then whatever you
say I could also add numbers to it.

The same thing could be done with all skills. Double the I.Q. and add bonuses based on race,
O.C.C, and other factors. Now everyone I.Q. gets to be a part of the role playing experience.
Making every character unique. Even if your character doesn't know a skill I could use say roll
I.Q. to see if your character can make a guess. Keep the simplicity but don't go in the direction of
other companies before or after us.[/quote]

Why must you roleplay the lower numbers but not the higher ones? Why force roleplaying at all? Acting it out is supposed to be the fun part but if you want just skip to the dice rolling. IQ is also always part of the process. The higher the IQ the greater the chance of successfully using the skill or attempting a skill you don't have.

The Beast wrote:

Reagren Wright wrote:Oh no I'm advocating we get rid of 40 years of history. In fact it's the one thing that seperates
Palladium from the rest of the pack. It gives us a major distinction and the niche market.
However, if you waiting for Yin Sloth Jungle 2nd edition to come out, we need to get sell off the
last copies of 1st edition.

But we're not buying 1st Ed Yin Sloth because we want it for 2nd Ed...

Why not have both editions? I've always found having more than one useful as not everything gets ported into the new one.

Sambot wrote:Why must you roleplay the lower numbers but not the higher ones? Why force roleplaying at all? Acting it out is supposed to be the fun part but if you want just skip to the dice rolling. IQ is also always part of the process. The higher the IQ the greater the chance of successfully using the skill or attempting a skill you don't have.

I think the issue is that anything below IQ 16 has no distinct effect on the game. 16+ gives you a skill bonus, but there is no mechanical difference between IQ 3 and IQ 15. So those who want to roleplay their attributes can use the suggestions given in RUE, but it is still subjective. Those who would rather go straight to dice don't have any reason to care what their IQ is unless it is 16+ since it doesn't affect their characters at all. If instead, your exact value had an influence on the game mechanics, then it would add greater nuance to each character. Instead, ME, PS, PE, and Spd are the only attributes that have a mechanical impact when they are below 16. The other 4 Attributes don't actually matter. I believe that is the point that was being made. I could be misunderstanding.