Page 1 of 1
Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:11 am
by Axelmania
Say if a spell takes 2+ actions to cast, the 15 seconds you need to create a psi-sword, the minutes of meditation needed to heal or exorcise...
What sort of rules exist for interrupting people? Are they all-or-nothing or is there a middle ground where you can roll dice to see if you keep your focus or not? Is difficulty variable upon how much damage you take?
I can't remember if I saw something like this in a Palladium book anymore. I'm sure GMs could apply personal judgment but having impartial rules for it would be nice.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:41 am
by Mack
It's left to the GM.
Many years ago we had a raging discussion that centered on a high level mage battling little Timmy with a rock.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:39 am
by Glistam
Pages 189-190 of Rifts Ultimate Edition talk about it. Pages 53-54 present rules for this more clearly.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:49 pm
by The Beast
Axelmania wrote:Say if a spell takes 2+ actions to cast, the 15 seconds you need to create a psi-sword, the minutes of meditation needed to heal or exorcise...
What sort of rules exist for interrupting people? Are they all-or-nothing or is there a middle ground where you can roll dice to see if you keep your focus or not? Is difficulty variable upon how much damage you take?
I can't remember if I saw something like this in a Palladium book anymore. I'm sure GMs could apply personal judgment but having impartial rules for it would be nice.
If you're in the PFRPG setting then according to the MoM1 book mages from that setting are trained enough to the point that they can take eight points of damage and not lose their focus on the spell.
Now personally what I would do is take that rule, combine it with the Principles of Magic skill in TtGD, and give it as an OCC skill to all mages. Then if the mage is struck for more than eight points of damage I'd have them roll the skill to see if they maintain focus or not. I'd also have penalties applied depending on the amount of damage received. A mage struck for 10 points would just make a straight skill check, but one struck for 50 points would likely have a pretty sever penalty.
As for the rest, it's kind of like what Mack said.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:39 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Mack wrote:It's left to the GM.
Many years ago we had a raging discussion that centered on a high level mage battling little Timmy with a rock.
*nods* It is up to each GM to decide if they wish to implement casting time rules.
Thou, in my on-line gaming most of the GM's I've played with don't.
I think the PPE Channeling rules in one rifters ( R20 +/-2 ) had text like that situation explaining why the rules were written.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:03 am
by Axelmania
8 is a pretty strange starting point. I'd think even 0 damage would be distracting. Someone could flick me 100 x and not kill me but I would have trouble focusing.
Maybe always make a roll, but -1 to the roll per damage taken?
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:40 am
by Glistam
I guess if you don't want to use the existing rules then you can do whatever you'd like in that regard. Your idea seems fine.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:15 pm
by dragonfett
I would say 8 SDC or any amount of HP damage before a check is made (with a penalty equaling damage taken minus 8 for SDC, or equaling the HP damage taken).
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:32 pm
by Khanibal
What are you doing walking around without Armor of Ithan up anyway? Are you trying to get killed?
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:24 pm
by Axelmania
Perhaps conserve PPE?
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:21 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
Mysteries of Magic says that 8 SDC is the cannonical threshold for intterupting a spellcasters concentration. It doesn't say if this holds for psychics using powers with a medidation requirement but it wouldn't be a streach to apply it there too. It means little timmy throwing a rock (1d4 SDC) would need a natural 20 and maximum damage to successfully interupt an archmage casting.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:22 am
by dreicunan
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Mysteries of Magic says that 8 SDC is the cannonical threshold for intterupting a spellcasters concentration. It doesn't say if this holds for psychics using powers with a medidation requirement but it wouldn't be a streach to apply it there too. It means little timmy throwing a rock (1d4 SDC) would need a natural 20 and maximum damage to successfully interupt an archmage casting.
So in other words, little Timmy should throw two handfuls of rocks for a burst doing 6d4 damage.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:04 am
by Axelmania
8 damage was enough to kill a lot of spellcasters in the old days, seems a lot. I'm pretty sure if I was singing a song and someone hit me for 1 damage I'd lose concentration on it.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:59 pm
by Prysus
Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:29 pm
by dragonfett
Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
A dagger is still quite capable of interrupting a spellcaster, so long as it's used by someone with a high strength (or someone that has had Supernatural Strength cast on them).
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:59 am
by Axelmania
A 1d4 dagger would need +5 damage (PS 20 barring any bonuses to damage from HTH skill) to be capable of doing 9 on a non-crit, and even then it would only happen 25% of the time.
I've seen some daggers do 1d6 though, in which case you'd only need PS17, but then it would only happen less than 17% of the time.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:56 am
by dragonfett
Axelmania wrote:A 1d4 dagger would need +5 damage (PS 20 barring any bonuses to damage from HTH skill) to be capable of doing 9 on a non-crit, and even then it would only happen 25% of the time.
I've seen some daggers do 1d6 though, in which case you'd only need PS17, but then it would only happen less than 17% of the time.
Which is why I had added my caveat.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:49 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
Axelmania wrote:8 damage was enough to kill a lot of spellcasters in the old days, seems a lot. I'm pretty sure if I was singing a song and someone hit me for 1 damage I'd lose concentration on it.
I'm pretty sure if you had to spend every weekend for years practicing to sing while your instructor occasionally threw rocks at you, you'd either quit or get reasonably good at ignoring all but the best hits.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:52 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
dragonfett wrote:Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
A dagger is still quite capable of interrupting a spellcaster, so long as it's used by someone with a high strength (or someone that has had Supernatural Strength cast on them).
The best way to use a knife to stop a spellcaster from casting is to cut out his tounge. What's the penalty on that called shot, again?
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:44 pm
by dragonfett
I don't believe that there is one in melee range, but you also don't get any bonuses either iirc.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:08 am
by eliakon
Nekira Sudacne wrote:dragonfett wrote:Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
A dagger is still quite capable of interrupting a spellcaster, so long as it's used by someone with a high strength (or someone that has had Supernatural Strength cast on them).
The best way to use a knife to stop a spellcaster from casting is to cut out his tounge. What's the penalty on that called shot, again?
There isn't any way to make a 'called shot to the tongue' with a knife...
As for the fact that they can soak a sword blow...
...yes whats the point? This is palladium where most adventurers can survive getting shot several times, and it can take 20 or 30 sword hits to take down a person just wearing winter clothing...
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:52 am
by Library Ogre
Nekira Sudacne wrote:dragonfett wrote:Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
A dagger is still quite capable of interrupting a spellcaster, so long as it's used by someone with a high strength (or someone that has had Supernatural Strength cast on them).
The best way to use a knife to stop a spellcaster from casting is to cut out his tounge. What's the penalty on that called shot, again?
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” - Vlad Taltos
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:37 pm
by Prysus
eliakon wrote:As for the fact that they can soak a sword blow...
...yes whats the point? This is palladium where most adventurers can survive getting shot several times, and it can take 20 or 30 sword hits to take down a person just wearing winter clothing...
Greetings and Salutations. Except that the Wizard will be able to soak all 20 to 30 without ever being interrupted a single time. That, in itself, isn't an issue. The fact that this is written to be a "weakness" however makes me feel this is bad game design. Now, if that 8 points was cumulative and everything after might interrupt (either total per spell, or total per battle), that's one thing. But I don't see being able to stand in the middle of a melee fight and just soaking every attack without interruption until you die as a weakness/vulnerability.
In my previous example involved lower damage weapons. If we up it to 2D6 (good damage for a 1-handed weapon) the characuer has a 33% chance of interrupting a spell. So 1 in 3 strikes. With a 3D6 weapon (good damage for a 2-handed weapon), you have about a 50% chance. So basically the "weakness" is that if you use one of the best non-magical weapons in the setting you have a 50/50 shot of brushing it off like nothing.
If Palladium described them as tough as Men at Arms and able to stand in a whirlwind of battle firing off spells, that would be different. Instead, we're told about this weakness and how they need to avoid combat, to be followed by a rule that doesn't support the concept. Just a paragraph before the up to 8 damage rule we're told how hard it is to stay focused while being kicked and stabbed and dealing with arrows, in which the rule makes a majority of those cases a minor threat (or less).
My issue is the mechanic doesn't support what is written. I'll add the my perspective will be in part shaded by the fact RUE came out years prior (but after I believe the MoM manuscript had been turned in) to MoM, which discusses how easy it is to interrupt mages and how even near misses can do it, followed by a passage in MoM that talks about how weak they are and a rule that doesn't match up with what's described or established. Furthermore, I suspect it's one of those things that will then be glossed back over in future books for more the RUE concept.
For the record, I get that some people would like their level 15 Wizard to be awesome and hard to interrupt. But this rule covers the level 1 Wizard the exact same, with no difference between the two. Something like handling 1 point of damage per level I might even accept (as just a quick idea off the top of my head).
The rule without any context about ease, strength, weakness of spell casting is fine. The rule within the established system I feel is out of place. Others of course are welcome to feel that the rule is perfect as is. That is their right. I'll disagree, as that it my right. Farewell and safe journeys.
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:52 pm
by dragonfett
Mark Hall wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:dragonfett wrote:Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
A dagger is still quite capable of interrupting a spellcaster, so long as it's used by someone with a high strength (or someone that has had Supernatural Strength cast on them).
The best way to use a knife to stop a spellcaster from casting is to cut out his tounge. What's the penalty on that called shot, again?
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” - Vlad Taltos
This! So this!
Re: Interrupting non-instant powers or spells
Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:47 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:dragonfett wrote:Prysus wrote:Greetings and Salutations. Actually, MoM states 8 damage as how much the caster can take. You have to do more than 8 (9 or higher) to interrupt the spell caster. That means he can take a dagger to the gut or a slash with a short sword across the chest and not lose the slightest bit of concentration (unless a critical is rolled, and even then he has a better than average chance). The number always seemed odd (and high) to me, personally. Just wanted to clarify that 8 damage won't interrupt the caster (and put some weapons into the equation for a better concept of how much that is). Farewell and safe journeys for now.
A dagger is still quite capable of interrupting a spellcaster, so long as it's used by someone with a high strength (or someone that has had Supernatural Strength cast on them).
The best way to use a knife to stop a spellcaster from casting is to cut out his tounge. What's the penalty on that called shot, again?
There isn't any way to make a 'called shot to the tongue' with a knife...
That
was a joke and not meant to be taken seriously.
As for the fact that they can soak a sword blow...
...yes whats the point? This is palladium where most adventurers can survive getting shot several times, and it can take 20 or 30 sword hits to take down a person just wearing winter clothing...
What point? I was simply answering the question. I didn't say I disagreed with the fact they can soak it. It makes casters much more playable.