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...when someone would argue in an AD&D forum that Chaotic Good is defined as 'The Ends Justifies The Means' and will use any method a Chaotic Evil person would because intentions is what matters. Now I have. Rape, Robbery, Murder, all that and more he says is completely acceptable to the Chaotic Good person so long as he's intending to do a great good with the actions. That's so far disconnected from what Chaotic Good is if he didn't seem so serious about believing it I'd swear he was just saying it to troll.

This mind you was in response to a GM wondering if he ought to change a CG PC's alignment in his group to CN after he flew ahead of the party, negotiated a peace with some villagers that had been forced into looking for the PC group to kill them by the big bad, then when his party arrived massacred all of the now neutral and non-threatening villagers. This mind you includes the PC learning their backstories, knowing that they were both forced and duped by the big bad into being a threat to them and knowing that they would disband or could even ally with the group against the Big Bad. But the GM isn't sure about whether or not to change his alignment down... eye rolling smiley PC clearly demonstrates he's CE and the GM isn't sure and thinks leaving him CG is what he'll do, as he and the other guy somehow think that being Chaotic it's okay for him to just turn around and arrange a mass murder in direct contravention of his Good alignment.

Apparently neither seem to clue in on the fact that the Chaotic is going to be constrained by the Good portion of the alignment, and good would never engage in such a blatantly evil action no matter how chaotic they are.

in a way yah he is right….but only if they mean breaking laws that forbid doing the good. the actions/means still have to be good actions/means. Like stoping corrupt police from killing a witness to their crimes from testifying against them might involve 'resisting arrest' and other ""unlawful acts"" to protect the witness.

However, this doe not let the CG good char going around killing people to further their plots. Their actions still have to "BE" good.

If the CG started going around killing people for a plot they are working on then the GM should secretly be scoring points for the evil they do. Then after a decided upon amount start having their alinement driven magic starting to not work for the char. Maybe w/o even telling the player as to why.


sort of like how only good (lawful) chars in the PB system are the only ones that can used good rune weapons/artifacts.

Well, the PC can think anything he wants. If I was GM, he can have any alignment on his character sheet, but the world, the NPCs, the deities, etc all know that he is CE and deluded.

-STS

This is the sort of reason why I don't do alignments in any game I play, no matter the system.
I just let people act as they act and there are no short cuts to find out who is good and who is evil, nor are there shortcuts to find out if your actions are good or evil, and especially I don't have to decide what the universal definition of "good" is that holds in every and all situation no mater what la la la.

This is why alignments are a suggestion in any game I've been in. Though going evil is frowned upon in my group. Mostly because our GM would be CG if real life was alignments, me? I run NG, and usually fall somewhere between that and just plain neutral, I don't really care about other people but I like to meddle and make things better. I don't have a problem working with evil, and if the laws work with me i'll work with them unless I need to break them to achieve my goals. I'm not for an extreme state of law or chaos, and i'm not really good, I just don't hold with murder and rape and all that other stuff unless its for a clear purpose and only against those who deserve it. Or at least I feel deserve it. And I like to help those who are innocent or in love...

as for the starting rant? If the character thought he was "doing good" then I would let him be CG...but what in the heck kind of backstory are you trying to feed me for rape, murder and robbery being good deeds? did you rape a rapist, murder a murderer and give all you stole to the poor? if not you're now irredeemably CE and I await the day your character is dragged screaming into hell.

eliakon wrote:This is the sort of reason why I don't do alignments in any game I play, no matter the system.
I just let people act as they act and there are no short cuts to find out who is good and who is evil, nor are there shortcuts to find out if your actions are good or evil, and especially I don't have to decide what the universal definition of "good" is that holds in every and all situation no mater what la la la.

This. People don't have alignments, they have personalities, and sometimes just everybody is a jerk. Not a rape and murder jerk, but you know what I mean.

It's especially annoying in PB games. Technically if you're good (Principled or Scrupulous), you can't even loot the bodies of the bandits who tried to kill you. You have to either be Unprincipled or Aberrant to take that sweet chromed .45 off the gang-banger you offed, or the variable laser rifle off the dead boy who had an issue with you being alive, and not human.

this is why i like that PB actually gives definable details as to what an alignment will and won't do. they should really list those as "goals" or "ideals" rather than hard limits, but it at least gives GM's and players a rough idea of what each alignment is like.

Nightmask wrote:...when someone would argue in an AD&D forum that Chaotic Good is defined as 'The Ends Justifies The Means' and will use any method a Chaotic Evil person would because intentions is what matters. Now I have. Rape, Robbery, Murder, all that and more he says is completely acceptable to the Chaotic Good person so long as he's intending to do a great good with the actions. That's so far disconnected from what Chaotic Good is if he didn't seem so serious about believing it I'd swear he was just saying it to troll.

This mind you was in response to a GM wondering if he ought to change a CG PC's alignment in his group to CN after he flew ahead of the party, negotiated a peace with some villagers that had been forced into looking for the PC group to kill them by the big bad, then when his party arrived massacred all of the now neutral and non-threatening villagers. This mind you includes the PC learning their backstories, knowing that they were both forced and duped by the big bad into being a threat to them and knowing that they would disband or could even ally with the group against the Big Bad. But the GM isn't sure about whether or not to change his alignment down... eye rolling smiley PC clearly demonstrates he's CE and the GM isn't sure and thinks leaving him CG is what he'll do, as he and the other guy somehow think that being Chaotic it's okay for him to just turn around and arrange a mass murder in direct contravention of his Good alignment.

Apparently neither seem to clue in on the fact that the Chaotic is going to be constrained by the Good portion of the alignment, and good would never engage in such a blatantly evil action no matter how chaotic they are.

Still not the most evil the most evil alignment is Chaotic neutral as there is no telling which way that person will go. One day he saves a dog from a kid being cruel to it the next day he eats it.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Still not the most evil the most evil alignment is Chaotic neutral as there is no telling which way that person will go. One day he saves a dog from a kid being cruel to it the next day he eats it.

You should never eat a kid. First of all, they're dirty. Secondly, they're high in fat content. Thirdly, you might not get invited to the block pot luck again.

Khanibal wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Still not the most evil the most evil alignment is Chaotic neutral as there is no telling which way that person will go. One day he saves a dog from a kid being cruel to it the next day he eats it.

You should never eat a kid. First of all, they're dirty. Secondly, they're high in fat content. Thirdly, you might not get invited to the block pot luck again.

Well chaotic neutral are crazy... besides it isn't their fault that someone brought the kid as a side; it was even in a portable red dish, I mean it even says rad io flayer... oh, I see now, come on the words are close... And come on I figured rad no was French like horse doers or goose patty.