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I'm pledged, can't wait to get it already!

I am pledged as well. I am a little cranky that all the early bird ones were gone before I got home from work but that always seems to happen.

I really like the opening video, although in my opinion the Glitter Boys are clearly cheating. Palladium needs more of these to post to a YouTube channel.

I have one concern, there are a lot of trolls who have clearly pledged that are going to drop out at the last minute. This could mean that it will look like the game will get funded but at the last minute it won't be. Anyone else worried about this.

Warshield73 wrote:I am pledged as well. I am a little cranky that all the early bird ones were gone before I got home from work but that always seems to happen.

I really like the opening video, although in my opinion the Glitter Boys are clearly cheating. Palladium needs more of these to post to a YouTube channel.

I have one concern, there are a lot of trolls who have clearly pledged that are going to drop out at the last minute. This could mean that it will look like the game will get funded but at the last minute it won't be. Anyone else worried about this.

Hard to say. If I were one of the folks causing trouble, I'd pledge at the $1 level, because this way they can lose a buck, and (in their view) call out the 'I told you so's when things go wrong. (Well, in their view.) There's... restrictions on pulling out on pledges in the last hours of a project if doing so would cause the project not to fund. Betting $100 on timing strikes me as... weird.

I don't think it looks like there's a lot of big fake bids, so I think he's safe that way.

jcfiala wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:I am pledged as well. I am a little cranky that all the early bird ones were gone before I got home from work but that always seems to happen.

I really like the opening video, although in my opinion the Glitter Boys are clearly cheating. Palladium needs more of these to post to a YouTube channel.

I have one concern, there are a lot of trolls who have clearly pledged that are going to drop out at the last minute. This could mean that it will look like the game will get funded but at the last minute it won't be. Anyone else worried about this.

Hard to say. If I were one of the folks causing trouble, I'd pledge at the $1 level, because this way they can lose a buck, and (in their view) call out the 'I told you so's when things go wrong. (Well, in their view.) There's... restrictions on pulling out on pledges in the last hours of a project if doing so would cause the project not to fund. Betting $100 on timing strikes me as... weird.

I don't think it looks like there's a lot of big fake bids, so I think he's safe that way.

OK, I did not know that there were restrictions on pulling out of a project in the last days or hours as I have never backed out of one so that's good. I have reduced my pledge a few times but never in the last day.

Went live when I was at school, so the early bird ones were already gone. It was a bummer as my rent went up this month. With luck saw someone changed their bid a few hours ago making one available and snagged it.

i wish i had the money. sadly i doubt i'll find enough budget for this before it ends.

guess i'll just have to buy one when they hit the open market.

i'm curuous as to whether a glitterboy figure will be one of the stretch goals, or just one of the first expansions after it hits market?

Glitterboy is supposed to be a stretch goal.

I liked the video but that's not how I envisioned Glitterboys activating their weapons, and the recoil jets didn't fire to compensate for the attacks made.

Glistam wrote:Glitterboy is supposed to be a stretch goal.

I liked the video but that's not how I envisioned Glitterboys activating their weapons, and the recoil jets didn't fire to compensate for the attacks made.

i felt the same way! i always envisioned them facing square to the target.
Video still looks cool though.

Warshield73 wrote:

jcfiala wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:I am pledged as well. I am a little cranky that all the early bird ones were gone before I got home from work but that always seems to happen.

I really like the opening video, although in my opinion the Glitter Boys are clearly cheating. Palladium needs more of these to post to a YouTube channel.

I have one concern, there are a lot of trolls who have clearly pledged that are going to drop out at the last minute. This could mean that it will look like the game will get funded but at the last minute it won't be. Anyone else worried about this.

Hard to say. If I were one of the folks causing trouble, I'd pledge at the $1 level, because this way they can lose a buck, and (in their view) call out the 'I told you so's when things go wrong. (Well, in their view.) There's... restrictions on pulling out on pledges in the last hours of a project if doing so would cause the project not to fund. Betting $100 on timing strikes me as... weird.

I don't think it looks like there's a lot of big fake bids, so I think he's safe that way.

OK, I did not know that there were restrictions on pulling out of a project in the last days or hours as I have never backed out of one so that's good. I have reduced my pledge a few times but never in the last day.

Yeah, it's a special collision of circumstances - it's got to be in the last day or so, and it's got to be enough that would call the funding into question. So, if the project is at 200% funding, then cancelling your pledge wouldn't be a problem.

----

Speaking of the kickstarter itself, it looks like it's growing in a healthy way, and I feel that it's likely to fund. I'm not sure how many stretch goals are going to be achieved - a lot of the add-ons are books that folks who are fans of Rifts are likely to already have, so that means most people will just be backing at the $100 level. I'm fairly sure there's 1000 fans who would lay down money for the game, but I'm not sure if there's 1500 Rifts fans who would lay down money for the game. (There really hasn't been a lot of advertising to folks outside of the palladium faithful, so I'm not sure how many other boardgamers are going to find and back the project, and miniatures fans aren't likely to want the minis because they're an odd size.)

But, as always, we'll find out what happens when the fat lady sings, and that won't be for a while.

you have to admit though, the big add-ons being existing products will help the funding some. no need to pay development costs for those.

I don't get the $100 cost for 20 minis. CMON and others have been doing $100 KS with dozens of minis in the base set. The GlitterBoy should be a KS pledge freebie considering its iconic status.

Also, are the minis really 32mm? AKA, not usable with 99% of the minis on the market. That would be weird and counterproductive.

Is the rulebook posted anywhere? That's usually standard for boardgame KS these days.

Spinachcat wrote:I don't get the $100 cost for 20 minis. CMON and others have been doing $100 KS with dozens of minis in the base set. The GlitterBoy should be a KS pledge freebie considering its iconic status.

Ehhhh, I'm willing to be more lenient regarding the price point; trying to compare this project to ones done by CMON or FFG isn't helpful as those two both are operating on significantly higher production runs, and thus the price-per-unit for them is going to be less expensive.

Spinachcat wrote:Also, are the minis really 32mm? AKA, not usable with 99% of the minis on the market. That would be weird and counterproductive.

This, on the other hand, is something that seems worrisome, particularly with regard to the below.

Spinachcat wrote:Is the rulebook posted anywhere? That's usually standard for boardgame KS these days.

Not that I've seen yet - I've asked a couple of times now about when they plan on posting the rules. Given the lack of gameplay information*, pretty much the only thing that can get folks excited is the existence of the minis, which could be repurposed for whatever...assuming they were of a size that would make sense.

*And in one case, seemingly contradictory gameplay information, specifically regarding what defines "skirmish play."

actually 32mm true scale (which is what these look like) is only a bit bigger than the 28mm "heroic" used by 90% of the miniatures companies out there. the 'heroic' scale is oversized and uses exaggerated features.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WsXtH2GLRtE/T ... Scales.jpg
a scale compare to older GW 28mm (before the scale creep struck again) to the 32mm.

another older GW vs 32mm scale compare, from Malifaux by Wyrd games
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/ ... /Sizes.jpg

in fact most companies creating new games have been shifting to a 32mm to 35mm scale because it allows you to fit in a lot more details without it looking cartoony.
look at Dreamforge's 32mm scale Eisenkern
http://www.crittohit.com/imagestore/art ... arison.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/2 ... 1354038492
http://i46.tinypic.com/aktwzc.jpg
or AT-43 and DUST?
http://www.adpublishing.de/assets/image ... _1size.jpg
the difference is fairly minor, roughly the difference between a person who is 6ft and a person who is a bit over 5ft. or in the case of the heroic's, five and a half.

jcfiala wrote:I'm fairly sure there's 1000 fans who would lay down money for the game, but I'm not sure if there's 1500 Rifts fans who would lay down money for the game.

Savage Rifts had 4,238 Backers, and Savage Worlds is a Minis based RPG rule set..

MADMANMIKE wrote:

jcfiala wrote:I'm fairly sure there's 1000 fans who would lay down money for the game, but I'm not sure if there's 1500 Rifts fans who would lay down money for the game.

Savage Rifts had 4,238 Backers, and Savage Worlds is a Minis based RPG rule set..

Yeah, but $100 for 20 minis is a bit weak, price-wise. Plus I can't count how many times I've used groups of colored disks for the bad-guys in a Savage World fight.

it isn't just the mini's though. it is rules, maps, the character, weapon, and special abilities cards, various counters, etc. with the maps, cards and counters in full color.

a full game.

glitterboy2098 wrote:it isn't just the mini's though. it is rules, maps, the character, weapon, and special abilities cards, various counters, etc. with the maps, cards and counters in full color.

a full game.

The problem for some is that they're not interested in the game. As Rogue Studios have said it's unlikely there'll be a miniatures only option (stating it'd arguably not save any money), it's hard to argue that both the extra components add value to someone who doesn't want them, and that they add a negligible price to the game.

It doesn't help that the separate miniature prices don't appear to be particularly competitive. On the face of it, they're comparable to other miniatures companies (5 for $33MSRP vs 7 for $50 from Wyrd). But those companies usually use a much harder material for producing models, which allows for a higher level of detail, as boardgame plastic is often too soft to get that level of detail. When that material is in play, the value is significantly less. For CMoN's The Others, a similar price you'll pay at retail ($35MSRP) gets you a Beta Team box, which is 17 models (11 unique sculpts) and all the supplemental stuff (cards, dice, maptiles on thick card). Yes, CMoN stuff mass produce enough to get an economy of scale that Rogue Studios won't be able to achieve, but that IS the economy they're working in.

They either need to be competitively priced, completely outshine on quality (and remember, there's a difference between prototypes shown and mass produced soft plastic, just ask base box Shadows of Brimstone backers), or have an X factor that'll push it, without the need to be pushed (the hype factories that are Zombicide and Kingdom Death). Now, I understand the desire to want to point out where you see value, but if people aren't seeing it on their own, it's rare they can be convinced otherwise. It's the equivalent of telling someone their opinion is wrong, and yours is right. "You're wrong. Let me tell you why." is just going to raise hackles. You may be able to convince a few, but most people are going to object, possibly even dig in harder. Even if you're right.

I wish Carmen all the best of luck. There's some people making his life more difficult, a few going too far, but there's also been some significant missteps this early in the campaign (including being on their third lead spokesman in three days, Carmen withdrawing from messaging), and that it's taking much longer to fund than I thought it would (I figured third or fourth day, and finishing with a quarter mil was reasonable), I think he's going to need it.

At this stage, I think it'll probably still fund, but I am concerned if that'll actually be a good thing. Assuming nothing else changes, and the backers average $125 each, funding means production of 16 unique sculpts into molds, production of those miniatures and the relevant cards, components and boxes, x800 copies and freight that from China, for $100,000 (less Kickstarter fees, taxes, and PB's licensing fee, and any outstanding developmental debt he's accrued). Thankfully for Carmen, he's added backer shipping after the fact. But I hope his numbers are robust, because it's looking like it might be a little tight. Obviously, I don't know the details, but I do know several Kickstarters that if they'd barely funded, the creators would have been completely hosed. RRT being the prime example. 70K simply would NOT have been sufficient to produce what was offered on release.

So, good luck to Carmen. I really do hope he gets his dream realised. But there are still some significant hurdles for him to clear.

glitterboy2098 wrote:it isn't just the mini's though. it is rules, maps, the character, weapon, and special abilities cards, various counters, etc. with the maps, cards and counters in full color.

a full game.

Sure.

But I was replying to the comment on how many Savage Worlds: Rifts backers there'd been, and I was assuming that the reason a Savage Worlds: Rifts backer would primarily want to pick this up was because of the miniatures. (Thus, my comment on using colored disks for badguys.)

(And I should point out that there doesn't seem to have been a lot of outreach to Savage Worlds: Rifts backers about this kickstarter, so they may just not be aware of it.)

I figure there's a couple of kinds of backers for SW:R. Rifts "faithful" who like to buy just about everything, who bought it to see what the new system was like; Older Rifts players who'd drifted away either due to dissatisfaction with the original rules system or folks who were turned off due to something the company had done in the past; and Savage Worlds fans, who have learned that Pinnacle runs a few solid kickstarter and delivers good product, and were interested in trying out this new world. The first group is already pledging for this game if they've got the spare money, or are waiting for their next paycheck (or, sadly, may not know the game is being kickstarted). The second group is either decided not to back or is waiting to see more details. And the third group is interested in the miniatures to play Savage Worlds: Rifts with, rather than as a boardgame, and it was their reaction to the price level I was commenting on.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

There is a 4th group of buyers. Jane board game buyer looking for a good fun game to play. This is by far the largest group of $$$ in this niche hobby. Unfortunately RogueHeroes does not seem to be doing anything to cater to this most important of groups.

The new stretch goals are a good step in the right direction. I think if the colour rulebook level were dropped to $110k...add a level for for cardboard tiles...add a level for co-op play...it would be much more a competitive game.

jcfiala wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:it isn't just the mini's though. it is rules, maps, the character, weapon, and special abilities cards, various counters, etc. with the maps, cards and counters in full color.

a full game.

Sure.

But I was replying to the comment on how many Savage Worlds: Rifts backers there'd been, and I was assuming that the reason a Savage Worlds: Rifts backer would primarily want to pick this up was because of the miniatures. (Thus, my comment on using colored disks for badguys.)

(And I should point out that there doesn't seem to have been a lot of outreach to Savage Worlds: Rifts backers about this kickstarter, so they may just not be aware of it.)

I figure there's a couple of kinds of backers for SW:R. Rifts "faithful" who like to buy just about everything, who bought it to see what the new system was like; Older Rifts players who'd drifted away either due to dissatisfaction with the original rules system or folks who were turned off due to something the company had done in the past; and Savage Worlds fans, who have learned that Pinnacle runs a few solid kickstarter and delivers good product, and were interested in trying out this new world. The first group is already pledging for this game if they've got the spare money, or are waiting for their next paycheck (or, sadly, may not know the game is being kickstarted). The second group is either decided not to back or is waiting to see more details. And the third group is interested in the miniatures to play Savage Worlds: Rifts with, rather than as a boardgame, and it was their reaction to the price level I was commenting on.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

wizardofthenorth wrote:There is a 4th group of buyers. Jane board game buyer looking for a good fun game to play. This is by far the largest group of $$$ in this niche hobby. Unfortunately RogueHeroes does not seem to be doing anything to cater to this most important of groups.

The new stretch goals are a good step in the right direction. I think if the colour rulebook level were dropped to $110k...add a level for for cardboard tiles...add a level for co-op play...it would be much more a competitive game.

The 3 groups I was listing were buyers for the RPG Savage Worlds: Rifts, not for this new game. You're quite right that if they could tap into the board gaming community, they might have a much easier time of getting funded. However, they haven't tried to reach out to them - there's no entry on boardgamegeek, they didn't get information to the folks who announce board game kickstarter news there, and I rather expect we won't be seeing any of the usual board game reviewers here. (Which is a shame, this could be right up the Dice Tower's alley.)

Ah...I didnt catch the submarket your were specifically referring tool. cheers

Myrddin201 wrote:

Glistam wrote:Glitterboy is supposed to be a stretch goal.

I liked the video but that's not how I envisioned Glitterboys activating their weapons, and the recoil jets didn't fire to compensate for the attacks made.

i felt the same way! i always envisioned them facing square to the target.
Video still looks cool though.

Funny, to me this is always how I pictured the GB firing. A lot of the earlier artwork, Like SB2 Mechanoids pg. 90, show a very dynamic firing stance. As dynamic as you can be when you're bolted to the ground.

If they did 50 minis for $100, the Savage Rifts backers (and many others) would flock to the KS, and that would allow the economies of scale.

But as I posted a month ago, the safer, cheaper path would have been cardboard minis (ala Paizo) and they could have printed scads of them and drawn in the SWR fans too.

I am still unpacking my The Others: 7 Sins goodies and its insane how much value is in that box. The KS marketplace has spoiled gamers with ROI and set a new standard and expectations for backers.

BTW, has anyone played the Rifts boardgame?

Any bloggers do a review yet?

I'd be interested to read a 3rd party take on the game.

Spinachcat wrote:BTW, has anyone played the Rifts boardgame?

Any bloggers do a review yet?

I'd be interested to read a 3rd party take on the game.

Yeah, I think one of the reasons the campaign's been put on hold, is that Carmen's realized that he needs to set up some reviews on the game to have on the front page. I don't think he had any lined up.

There apparently was someone who had playtested it posting in the comments of the kickstarter but... yeah, finding anything in that cesspool is not worth trying.