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I have a player in my group who I no longer wish to play with. He is very open about his prejudiced opinions and won't shut up about them even when asked to keep them to himself. Originally he wasn't such a bad guy, but it seems that as he has warmed up to the group and come to realize that we are all pretty relaxed and able to take and make jokes about nearly any subject, he has decided that we are ok with being a sounding board for some of his more "out there" ideas on how people should be treated. The problem is that I have more than one game being played with this guy, we have been playing for about two or three months now and its only been in the last two weeks that he has decided to act in such a disrespectful manner. He had shot down my attempt to set up a Rifts game, played some in my Dungeons and Dragons campaign, and pressured me for a Weird Wars 2 campaign. Nobody really gets along with this guy anymore, but I get the feeling he is going to take it super personally and try to destroy my group if he can't play in it (mainly because he has told me of how he did that to another group he was in once).

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to kick out somebody who won't respond to a well reasoned argument? Just sitting him down and telling him that we aren't going to play with him anymore is going to be the first thing I try, unless somebody has a better solution?

Unfortunately there is really no good way to politely tell someone that they are being a jerk. I think the first thing is to just, privately, tell him that as the GM, you do not feel that his continued presence in your game would be constructive. You can tell him that you feel that he is being disruptive, in your opinion. And then point out that as the GM being disruptive to you is sufficient. Then tell him that you are sorry, but that you will have to ask him to find another gaming group.
There is, unfortunately, little that can be done to prevent retaliation.

"Sir, you have offended me and I no longer wish to play with you. Please remove yourself from my table. Thank you."

Do not argue. Do not offer reason. If asked why, tell them that you will not discuss the matter further.

So far these are very good and honest straight forward ways of doing this.

The passive-aggressive way, is to change the game night time and don't tell him. BTW this isn't a good idea.

The group and sometimes more effective way, is to talk to the rest of the players. Make sure they are all in agreement on this person leaving the game. Then, as the GM, tell him he is no longer welcome in your game and that you would like him to stop coming to the game. I would do this either at the end of a game session or reach out to him outside of a session.

Breaking up with a player can be very difficult. Good luck.

FatherMorpheus wrote:The group and sometimes more effective way, is to talk to the rest of the players. Make sure they are all in agreement on this person leaving the game. Then, as the GM, tell him he is no longer welcome in your game and that you would like him to stop coming to the game. I would do this either at the end of a game session or reach out to him outside of a session.

Agreed.
I'd tell him in private, so he won't feel as humiliated, but it's important to have group support so people don't think you're a tyrant.

Personally, I also like to fire a warning shot across people's bow: "If you keep doing x, then you won't be in the group anymore."
That way, if anybody wants to give static about it, I can clearly say, "I asked him to quit doing x, and told him what would happen. He chose to keep doing it, so it happened. That's not my fault."

You're in an interesting position on that one.

In my group the GM is the guy you're mentioning.

Well, not for Rifts, I GM that. Though for everything else, yeah. It's a trip sometimes.

If asking him nicely to leave doesn't work, you can always kill is character off.

Stop inviting him. If necessary, change your schedule. If he finds out and calls someone, tell him that nobody's really comfortable around him and everyone's sick of his bigoted ****.

I never suggest the passive-aggressive 'change the date' method. I'd first check with your other players, either one at a time or preferably in a group setting to make sure everyone is in agreement with you that he's a problem for X reasons and he should be either confronted or simply removed. With each person in agreement, it's not hard to cut someone out of the loop entirely via communication blackouts after said person has been informed they are no longer welcome. With that said, it's not always that simple (goes way back with so and so, someone finds him more funny than offensive etc), creating a more complex structure of links (why the talking about it is important).

Assuming you have support from the others in your group, either immediately move to remove him, tell him he's no longer welcome, privately and calmly (if you feel he can be violent or prone to anger, do it in a semi-public setting, in your gaming area with others near, but not in earshot, etc). Over the phone or via e-mail can also be fine options, but are less strong messages to the person. If he arrives regardless, lock him out, tell him to leave, if they are particularly ham fisted about it (hammering on doors, shouting from outside, etc), police can be involved if it gets really dramatic (I can't tell the level he'll go without knowing him of course, so use your own judgement, but I do know people, particularly those who think they can force groups apart tend to throw tantrums).

Do not allow yourself to get drawn into debate over your choice, and don't let the others in your group to fall into that trap. He's removed, and that's that, there is no discussion.

In the event there is not 100% backing, tell the descender that you'll give him a warning, that if he continuities doing X, he'll be removed, and inform the group as a whole that X isn't acceptable at your table, and anyone doing X will be removed. It may act as a warning shot, given the example, people of the type I assume he is with what I know will likely take this as a challenge more then a warning, it will likely try to buck it sooner rather than later to see if he can get away with it. Be clear that you are 100% serious, and are 100% committed to seeing through the resolution of the matter.

I can't really provide guidance beyond that without a great deal more information on the person, the nature of the group, and their general outlooks on the matter.

How much chatting goes on at ur table? Are you really sociable or is it strictly a game?
If its a game just try to bring it back round to "Ok, shall we continue playing or what?" and describe the next scenario.

Two weeks isnt a long time to be behaiving differently. - Id ask him if he is enjoying the game sessions as he seems different. If he replies that he is and he's still enjoying it then Id raise the issue of his disruptiveness and that you feel it's off putting to your flow which is off putting to the games flow. Ask him to stick to the game and keep behaviour or opinions u dont agree with away from the table.
If he repeats remind him its getting too much.
Then when ur absolutely ready to kick him it will NOT be a shock. That is what you hope to accomplish here- him leaving not being a shock to him.

Good luck

Illendaver wrote:I have a player in my group who I no longer wish to play with. He is very open about his prejudiced opinions and won't shut up about them even when asked to keep them to himself. Originally he wasn't such a bad guy, but it seems that as he has warmed up to the group and come to realize that we are all pretty relaxed and able to take and make jokes about nearly any subject, he has decided that we are ok with being a sounding board for some of his more "out there" ideas on how people should be treated. The problem is that I have more than one game being played with this guy, we have been playing for about two or three months now and its only been in the last two weeks that he has decided to act in such a disrespectful manner. He had shot down my attempt to set up a Rifts game, played some in my Dungeons and Dragons campaign, and pressured me for a Weird Wars 2 campaign. Nobody really gets along with this guy anymore, but I get the feeling he is going to take it super personally and try to destroy my group if he can't play in it (mainly because he has told me of how he did that to another group he was in once).

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to kick out somebody who won't respond to a well reasoned argument? Just sitting him down and telling him that we aren't going to play with him anymore is going to be the first thing I try, unless somebody has a better solution?

The issue is the question is only half the problem. "How do you tell them I don't want to play with them" is obviously simple on it's face. "I don't want to play with you"

the real question is "how to do it without hurting their feelings". You can't. you can try to soften the blow, but trying that can also make it worse, depending on the personality of the person in question. The best you can do is find a way to make it easier, and we don't know this person at all to give advice for that.

Or, you could privately ask him if something has happened recently that might be causing him problems. A recent behavior change might be a sign that there are emotional issues that are completely unrelated. But he might be lashing out in your games.

We recently had to do the same thing in our game. One player was making the game unplayable. We ended up stopping the game, rolled new characters, and changed the GM. It did not help. The player continued the inappropriate behavior with a new character. We had a very frank discussion on how the game was going and decided to switch to board games and card games for a while. It's still social, and still a lot of fun. I think it gave the group a chance to relax, have a drink and create a better dynamic. Now we are jumping back in and having more fun then ever. That player is not joining us for Rifts, but still doing the card game night.

I like the direct approach. "This isn't working anymore, I don't think you and this group are a good fit, time for you to find another group where you can be yourself without offending others."

When he asks why, you can simply say his opinions have offended you and others in the group. You play games to have a good time, but when you are upset over something another has said, you can not enjoy yourself. So, it's time to move on. Don't waiver, don't let him talk his way back in, be firm.

Personally, I think you should have given him a warning and that going from zero to out is a going to blind side the guy, which I would not do if he were a friend, or even an acquaintance. It's hard to be direct sometimes, especially if you are young, but saying "Hey dude, that was offensive, if you can't refrain from those kind of comments, you are going to need to find a new group." Then, if he continues, at least he was warned why he was kicked out.

you know...I will play devil's advocate here. without knowing exactly what is being said between you and this guy, I will have to assume based on what you said that there are OFF-game stuff being discussed that you disagree with. you never said he was disruptive with the game, it just seems like you don't want to associate with this guys "prejudiced opinions". play another game...he hates RIFTS encourage the other players to play that, he will get mad and leave or be so disruptive you wont feel bad about asking him to leave.

"look, you need to understand. The Group is going in a different direction and we feel that this direction doesn't fit your style of opinions and expressions. I'm Sorry. I guess what we are really trying to say is......... we need some space."

Just don't play it out how one online-GM did. One of the players in his 2nd edition AD&D game was playing a VERY racist elf (which admittedly they are racist but still...), game had barely started and the GM brought in a vengeful orc fighter 2 levels higher, multiple attacks, declared she ALWAYS went first rather than dicing it each turn, did way more damage than him, etc and left him leaving the game in protest at such a one-sided fight where he got quickly sliced and diced. I didn't bother staying in the game much longer as a result after seeing that as it destroyed any trust I had in the GM that he'd run things fairly. You don't want to handle things in a fashion that the other players will side with the disruptive player.

Invite the player to a next game and calmly tear his character sheet into pieces while the other players bounce Mountain Dew cans off his head. Sounds bizarre now, but we did that to a terrible player back in high school.

You can bet that our 2nd most annoying player got the point and became less annoying.

Sadly, adults aren't supposed to be that honest and we supposedly have to couch our language to spare the feelings of people who never took a moment regarding anyone else.

I say, hurl the Dew!

So I need to know... did you do it? How did you do it? How did he take it?

Give him a Counseling Statement (copy and paste this in your browser for the form: armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pdf/a4856.pdf) including his actions, why they were wrong, what your expectations are, and further plan of action from that point forward, including what his responsibilities are. Then get a Volkswagen Hubcap with a chain and make him wear the 'Hubcap of Shame' if he still wants to play. If anyone ask him about it he must say the words. If he doesn't like that, go with, 'please leave, and good day sir!' If he's rude in public, I'd have no problem calling him out in front of that public, that'll serve as a warning to the rest. Don't like it, he can walk out through the room of a thousand 4-siders. You're the GM, you own that game. If he has ANY comments to offer it better be from the position of Parade Rest.