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I was trying to get a productive discussion on this before the thread was shut down. Here it is again.

I think that Palladium should license their properties to Amazon Kindle Worlds so that those that wish to write fiction based on those properties could do so and both Palladium and the authors could get paid to do so with no overhead on the part of Palladium.

I personally would love to write for the Beyond the Supernatural, Ninjas and Super-spies or Fantasy setting.

I heard about this on a related thread, and the more I look at it, the more it seems like a great idea. Fiction can be a great catalyst for RPGs and their associated products, either by bringing in new fans or by building interest among existing fans.

Kindle Worldsis a way for IP owners to encourage and profit from quality fan fiction. There are no expenses for the IP owner or author, and the IP owners can establish whatever guidelines they want.

Kevin often encourages us fans to unleash our imaginations. Would this be a good venue to do so?

It would be a fantastic idea for Palladium, I would LOVE to write in the Palladium worlds again!!! I have no desire to write RPG's anymore but I have tons of ideas for fiction stories set in the Palladium Megaverse.

i think it would be nice, though a little tricky, i am sure amazon owns everything you submit to them unfortunatly.



I think a better idea would be to setup a fan fiction sections that have to follow the guidelines of the forum rules (IE: no crossover with products not licensed to palladium lines of course.)

No they do not, I publish extensively on Amazon and they DO NOT own what you publish.

ok, after reading the agreement it would seem that the own the setting not the story, that is interesting indeed. plus possible royalties. wish i was good at putting ideas into words.

My understanding is that Amazon owns neither the setting nor the story. They own the electronic publishing and delivery space, so they make their money by taking a cut (30% + delivery fees depending on the file sizes involved). The guidelines are set by the licensing entity (So Kevin could make rules like "No pornography or erotica, no crossover fiction involving Robotech, no profanity, and absolutely no referring to the Palladium world as "Palladia").

I agree so much that I already started a thread on this topic in this forum. Great minds, eh?

Sounds sweet. Color me interested.

The more I look into it the more I see it as a no brainer. All Palladium would have to do is sign up and provide the style/content guide for the writers ans Amazon. Amazon and the writers do the rest and Palladium gets paid every month.

There is NO way the IP could be affected by putting them up on Kindle Worlds. Palladium would set the guidelines.

I don't really get the NO votes, there is almost no lifting on the Palladium side.

If past behavior is indicative of future decisions, I do not think Palladium would go for this.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just saying I don't think that it's their style.

I don't think that Palladium is interested in licensing their franchises in situations where they can't vet the material before it's released. I know that if I owned the longest running franchises of all time I too would be super careful about who I let write for them and make sure that I had approval over everything that gets released to prevent work from entering the canon that I didn't approve of.

I voted no. I would forsee many problems if they chose too.

I'm not opposed to the overall idea. I'm not sure that it's the best for Palladium.

popscythe wrote:I don't think that Palladium is interested in licensing their franchises in situations where they can't vet the material before it's released. I know that if I owned the longest running franchises of all time I too would be super careful about who I let write for them and make sure that I had approval over everything that gets released to prevent work from entering the canon that I didn't approve of.

Palladium publishes non-canon stuff four times a year, and Kindle Worlds is billed as a fan fiction publishing vehicle, not a regular fiction publishing vehicle. Anyone who buys a novella about the Pecos Empire should be under no illusion that what they're reading is the gospel of Kevin. Kindle Worlds has mechanisms such that any story that doesn't meet Palladium's guidelines can have the offending content edited, or can have the entire story taken down.

Really, people are already writing fan fiction about Rifts. There are some good examples here on the boards. Kindle Worlds is a way to assure quality, improve distribution, and make some money for Palladium and the fan fiction authors.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I voted no. I would forsee many problems if they chose too.

I'm not opposed to the overall idea. I'm not sure that it's the best for Palladium.

What problems do you foresee?

Pepsi Jedi wrote:If past behavior is indicative of future decisions, I do not think Palladium would go for this.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just saying I don't think that it's their style.

I would like to disagree but they won't go for it. I might be a pessimist yet chances are good they won't even look into it.

Sureshot wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:If past behavior is indicative of future decisions, I do not think Palladium would go for this.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm just saying I don't think that it's their style.

I would like to disagree but they won't go for it. I might be a pessimist yet chances are good they won't even look into it.

I really hate to think that. Times have changed so much, Indie publishing is on the rise. They should really grab onto this momentum while it's going.

Look at the licensors who've signed on with Kindle Worlds... somehow I think the fear of Amazon appropriating Palladium's idea is a bit premature.

As a place for stories...looks okay. Just not a place for 'game material'.

yeah... nobody ever claimed it was a place for game material

J.L. Duncan wrote:

Hotrod wrote: Kindle Worlds has mechanisms such that any story that doesn't meet Palladium's guidelines can have the offending content edited, or can have the entire story taken down.

I was looking for this and couldn't find it. Could you post a link?

Sure.

Amazon Kindle Worlds FAQ wrote:If we have any questions or feel that your work does not follow the applicable Content Guidelines, we'll contact you via e-mail. You'll have a chance to revise your work accordingly. We reserve the right to take down any work after it is published if we become aware of infractions.

My only concern is this electronic media and its not "in print" meaning twenty years from now, are you still going to see the
work on a format that allows for it to be viewed? Something in print in a book will be around for centuries. I have three novels
published by Iuniverse, so they physically exists. Because of the expense ($600 for their basic package) I did the fourth book in
electronic format with Barnes & Noble on their Nook Press before it was called Nook Press (its free too). The books is available
on line for Nook but you can't physically touch it or hold it, and if anything happens to Nook Press what happens to it? So I'm on
the fence with this Amazon thing. As a writer and Palladium fan I'd love to write all kinds of fiction for Palladium. I have three
completed HU novels (a series) on my computer(s) and two-thirds of a Palladium Fantasy (one of a three part series), and the
ideas and outlines for others that I've never done anything with, just wrote them for the sheer love of writing and I'm a crazy
Palladium fan. However, if something like this is allowed by Kevin with official guidelines and rules, I'm still not sure about doing
it. Guess I like looking at my 9 full bookcases more than some electronic device lying on the couch.

ebook sales are eclipsing traditional and are available many platforms. Also via createspace and lightning source print on demand paperbacks are cheap and easy.

Reagren, I respect those concerns and your preference for physical books. I myself have a Rifts novel manuscript, and even though my hope is to publish it electronically, I've printed out a few copies and had them bound. I got it printed for free at school, and it cost me ~8 bucks per copy to bind it.

Consider, though, that unless Kevin decides to take another bold step into published fiction like he did with the Rifts novel trilogy, none of your Palladium-based stories will get published. As much as I'd prefer Palladium to publish my story, I'm a realist. Fiction doesn't pay Palladium's bills. Games are what brings in the bacon, and games are (rightly) their priority.

I think it's better to have a story published in some medium than to have it never get published and rot on your bookshelf or poof with your hard drive.

The new generation of writers are almost all grounded in the electronic format, paperback sales are becoming a secondary concern. That being said I offer paperbacks of all my longer works.

http://joshhilden.com/buy-books-directly/

Could it benefit the company, increase exposure, and provide a fertile ground for mining new talent? Yes.
Do I believe that the sole proprietor and decision maker in charge of the company, who has something of a reputation for wanting to maintain absolute editorial control of his IP would ever do it? No.
I'm not voting because I hate gaming fiction in general, I almost always skip over it, and fanfic entirely.

I don't care for it when it's written like it's flavor text in a RPG book.

Josh Hilden wrote:I don't care for it when it's written like it's flavor text in a RPG book.

Sorry, I don't quite follow you. What is it that turns you off: flavor text that is written like it's an excerpt from a larger work, or fiction that's written like RPG descriptions? Or is it something else?

the later not the former.

debatable. the main problem with not needing to invest anything into it, is that you don't have any control over it as a result.

so sure, you can do that... and then someone decides to publish their 20-page "backstory" (read: explanation of why their character has 10 different character classes and breaks all kinds of other rules in an effort to convince their GM to let them play a half-vampire were-dragon demigod ninja gunslinger with a greatest rune katana and boom gun pistols).

the simple truth is this: sturgeon's law (or, rather, sturgeon's revelation) is pretty accurate.

(for those who have no idea what i'm talking about when i refer to sturgeon's law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law )

so while it's nice that you don't have to spend time editing and/or approving things, the drawback is that someone else who ultimately probably doesn't give a crap about your baby is going to be in charge of approving and editing, and may simply apply a rubber stamp to anything that comes across their desk for the former and completely disregard the latter.

particularly when you consider that the 90% is referring to 90% of *published* material (meaning there's probably ten times that much stuff that was so bad, it didn't even get to make it into the 90% of stuff that is crap)... so even hoping for 10% of the resulting published material to be good is iffy.

now please, don't read this as me telling you (or anyone) in particular that your writing is bad. it's not that you, or me, or any one individual is the concern... it's everyone as a whole. you may be the most brilliant author in the world, or have the most amazing story to tell that would be incredible... but there are probably a whole bunch of other people who also have a story they want to tell, only it's going to be completely incomprehensible trash or worse. not having quality control is a terrible way to market your brand.

So yeah the only reason for Palladium to NOT do it is lack of 100% control.

That's not how KINDLE WORLDS works. Palladium would provide the style/content guidelines and Amazon is responsible for making sure they are adhered to.

Josh Hilden wrote:It would be a fantastic idea for Palladium, I would LOVE to write in the Palladium worlds again!!! I have no desire to write RPG's anymore but I have tons of ideas for fiction stories set in the Palladium Megaverse.

I would also be glad to contribute.

I don't think that Palladium would want to give up the control required for this kind of thing, though.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:It would be a fantastic idea for Palladium, I would LOVE to write in the Palladium worlds again!!! I have no desire to write RPG's anymore but I have tons of ideas for fiction stories set in the Palladium Megaverse.

I would also be glad to contribute.

I don't think that Palladium would want to give up the control required for this kind of thing, though.

I agree, but it makes little sense to me if that's the reason.

Ninjabunny wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:That's not how KINDLE WORLDS works. Palladium would provide the style/content guidelines and Amazon is responsible for making sure they are adhered to.

So let's see pally sets the guidelines for what can be written?
They do not have to edit it or publish it?
They will still make money off of it for doing nothing?
And they retain control of their ips?

That is my understanding.

How is this a bad thing?

It's not. It would be an awesome thing.
It would be just what Palladium NEEDS right now- a way to make money without requiring any time or effort on Kevin's part (or anybody's part) beyond setting up the initial stuff.
Once they got it going, they could kick back and collect the money.

As I said the only downside I see is Kevin not looking I to and just thumbing his nose at it.

Yes.
And I'd wager good money that's essentially what would happen with this idea.
Or that Kevin would fully and honestly intend to look into the matter, and a decade or two would roll by before he got to it.

Josh Hilden wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:It would be a fantastic idea for Palladium, I would LOVE to write in the Palladium worlds again!!! I have no desire to write RPG's anymore but I have tons of ideas for fiction stories set in the Palladium Megaverse.

I would also be glad to contribute.

I don't think that Palladium would want to give up the control required for this kind of thing, though.

I agree, but it makes little sense to me if that's the reason.

Yup.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Or that Kevin would fully and honestly intend to look into the matter, and a decade or two would roll by before he got to it.

In my opinion, this.

It is an interesting idea but there are some potential areas that would require some though. The danger of fan fiction stuff like this is if some idea gets put into one and then something similar winds up in an actual game book there could be potential royalties and other issues. It all really depends how tight you can make the terms and agreements. I know privateer press does something like this for ebooks and it is going pretty well for them.

The license holder owns all of the published work and has right to use it. It's pretty standard, it's not like traditional fan fiction it's more like the non canonical Star Trek novels.

They can if they want I'm just saying that's not how it works. The thing is set up to be a win win for all three parties.

The 2 Kindle World Topics have been merged.

J.L. Duncan wrote:

Josh Hilden wrote:They can if they want I'm just saying that's not how it works. The thing is set up to be a win win for all three parties.

I think you just work for Kindle-

I kid...

nah they work for me

it all comes down to whether you trust amazon to take care of palladium's intellectual property.

if you do, then it makes sense to let them handle it. if you don't trust them to do a good job of it, well, the only reasonable position would be to not let them anywhere near your intellectual property because they'll probably devalue it; like i said, if their approval process is just someone doing a quick scan for specifically disallowed stuff (like erotic fanfics or swear words), and their editing process is to run things through a spell checker, you don't want them in charge of deciding what gets published.

now, i actually abstained. i don't know that we have enough information to make that decision yet. my personal opinion is that it might be better to adopt a "wait and see" approach at this time; if amazon does a decent job of basically being a publishing company, i'd say it makes sense to let them manage it. if amazon just lets anything through without concern for quality or setting continuity, then i wouldn't want them to touch anything i care about with a 29 1/2 foot pole.

you have to understand that when you go to a movie or read a book and you think to yourself "wow that movie/book sucked really badly", you're not looking at the bottom of the barrel*. you're looking at the part that is just slightly below the top, and there is an extremely deep pit of suckiness that extends far beyond that.

* there are a few exceptions... i'm pretty sure the star wars holiday special, for example, was perhaps not at the very bottom of the barrel, but it's quite deep.

Shark_Force wrote:it all comes down to whether you trust amazon to take care of palladium's intellectual property.

if you do, then it makes sense to let them handle it. if you don't trust them to do a good job of it, well, the only reasonable position would be to not let them anywhere near your intellectual property because they'll probably devalue it; like i said, if their approval process is just someone doing a quick scan for specifically disallowed stuff (like erotic fanfics or swear words), and their editing process is to run things through a spell checker, you don't want them in charge of deciding what gets published.

now, i actually abstained. i don't know that we have enough information to make that decision yet. my personal opinion is that it might be better to adopt a "wait and see" approach at this time; if amazon does a decent job of basically being a publishing company, i'd say it makes sense to let them manage it. if amazon just lets anything through without concern for quality or setting continuity, then i wouldn't want them to touch anything i care about with a 29 1/2 foot pole.

you have to understand that when you go to a movie or read a book and you think to yourself "wow that movie/book sucked really badly", you're not looking at the bottom of the barrel*. you're looking at the part that is just slightly below the top, and there is an extremely deep pit of suckiness that extends far beyond that.

* there are a few exceptions... i'm pretty sure the star wars holiday special, for example, was perhaps not at the very bottom of the barrel, but it's quite deep.

True, Kindle Worlds is no guarantee of quality beyond formatting and adherence to a set of guidelines. Anyone who shells out $1.99 for a Kindle Worlds novella shouldn't be expecting Charlotte's Web. It's billed as published fan fiction. There will be crap stories, and there will be "meh" stories. However, Sturgeon's Rule cuts both ways, and there will be some good stories. The reviewing process and word of mouth will sink the bad ones and float the good ones to prominence.

You mentioned the Star Wars Christmas Special as an example of a bad derivative work. How much damage did it do to Star Wars? How many other crap or "meh" stories or associated Star Wars products are out there? Last I heard, that franchise was worth a couple billion.

Kindle Worlds isn't like the Star Wars Christmas Special. It won't be getting thrust onto public-space TV. Individuals will decide whether or not to pay a small cheeseburger's value in cash based on both their interest in the IP and the reviews/word of mouth about the stories and authors.

Palladium may have had a bad experience with the Rifts novel trilogy. That cost them investment capital and time. Some might argue that that series damaged their reputation, since they themselves published those stories. I doubt anyone will blame Kevin if "Rifts: Attack of the Floopers" on Kindle Worlds turns out to be less than a masterpiece.

The whole reason Kevin won't go for it.... "This whole electronic thing is just a fad, and we don't have the time to set up for a fad"

Also after a certain point good/bad/meh is all subjective.

The main thing that Palladium would need to understand is that Kindle Worlds won't reflect on Palladium as a publisher, because Palladium won't be publishing it.
It won't mean Palladium losing any rights to character or setting either. In fact, the standard setup is that if the owners of a setting like any element, they can take it and use it how they like, with no obligation to compensate the creator in any way. Basically, they gain rights over other peoples work, not the other way around.

Long story short, what it would do is to allow Palladium to profit from (and to some extent control) fan-fiction that people are going to write anyway.

Like I've said... win win win. Even if Palladium only averaged $100 a month that's a hundred bucks they wouldn't have had before.