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Before I say anything I'd just like to say that I'm going to open up emotionally and put myself in a rarely vulnerable state so please do not be an *******.

Okay.

I am making this thread here because every so often there is a D&D gathering called a "Delve" in my town and a few months ago I went in the hopes I would find gamers interested in joining my Palladium game. I live in a small red neck country town in Australia so finding "gamers" is hard and most of the time when you do they are dregs no one else wants (and normally for good reasons; I've come across practitioners of bestiality other sexual deviants and compulsive liars, etc, etc, etc.). Now the thing is... I can come off rather intimidating, I am confident, intelligent, know my strengths and weaknesses and well, lets face it... not a lot of "gamers" like that.

So when I went to the last delve I had the table laughing and it was a good time had by all, except afterwards it turned into "tear him down" and no one was interested in joining my game because the regular DM's saw me as a "threat" I guess. So my point is... there is another delve coming up and I just don't know what to do. I feel like a sales person who has an awesome product but does not know how to pitch it or how not to scare people off.

The first thing I learned was every single person had an opinion about Palladium and Rifts while only one person had ever played it and from what I understood it was a short-lived game where they played a Werejaguar (and did not understand the rules at all).

*sigh*

So yeah... what do I do? I don't want to change who I am or pretend to be someone I am not. I am not offended by concepts like cannibalism and the idea of monsters killing and eating people isn't taboo with me (which is one of the major complaints that I got)... I mean... I'd always just figured that "monsters eat people" but apparently thats not a thing in D&D 4E and bringing it up can offend people.

I kno I should've thought this short post out a little more clearly but I wanted to to be raw and honest. In short I want to be able to have fun with new people and share the Palladium experience with new gamers but I don't know how to do it. How do I get past the preconception? The one new player I got loves it and is at my house every weekened even if the game is not scheduled just encase I run it they love it that much, they've stopped playing other games just to be at my house (its a considerable drive) just on the off chance I'll run it... so the game is good, my game mastering is good... but I am at a loss at finding a way for people to see past "threat" and "munchkin game" and actually try it out and form an opinion on their own.

Akashic Soldier wrote:Before I say anything I'd just like to say that I'm going to open up emotionally and put myself in a rarely vulnerable state so please do not be an *******.

Okay.

I am making this thread here because every so often there is a D&D gathering called a "Delve" in my town and a few months ago I went in the hopes I would find gamers interested in joining my Palladium game. I live in a small red neck country town in Australia so finding "gamers" is hard and most of the time when you do they are dregs no one else wants (and normally for good reasons; I've come across practitioners of bestiality other sexual deviants and compulsive liars, etc, etc, etc.). Now the thing is... I can come off rather intimidating, I am confident, intelligent, know my strengths and weaknesses and well, lets face it... not a lot of "gamers" like that.

So when I went to the last delve I had the table laughing and it was a good time had by all, except afterwards it turned into "tear him down" and no one was interested in joining my game because the regular DM's saw me as a "threat" I guess. So my point is... there is another delve coming up and I just don't know what to do. I feel like a sales person who has an awesome product but does not know how to pitch it or how not to scare people off.

The first thing I learned was every single person had an opinion about Palladium and Rifts while only one person had ever played it and from what I understood it was a short-lived game where they played a Werejaguar (and did not understand the rules at all).

*sigh*

So yeah... what do I do? I don't want to change who I am or pretend to be someone I am not. I am not offended by concepts like cannibalism and the idea of monsters killing and eating people isn't taboo with me (which is one of the major complaints that I got)... I mean... I'd always just figured that "monsters eat people" but apparently thats not a thing in D&D 4E and bringing it up can offend people.

I kno I should've thought this short post out a little more clearly but I wanted to to be raw and honest. In short I want to be able to have fun with new people and share the Palladium experience with new gamers but I don't know how to do it. How do I get past the preconception? The one new player I got loves it and is at my house every weekened even if the game is not scheduled just encase I run it they love it that much, they've stopped playing other games just to be at my house (its a considerable drive) just on the off chance I'll run it... so the game is good, my game mastering is good... but I am at a loss at finding a way for people to see past "threat" and "munchkin game" and actually try it out and form an opinion on their own.

You should take your other friend with you and just play a couple of those DnD sessions until you become close to a couple of the people. Then get to talking about Palladium with those people and invite them over to play after there is a comfort level and they are interested in trying it.

Remember that you are going to a gathering of D&D- that's kind of like showing up to a Palladium Open House and saying-"This game sucks! We all should be playing (insert system here). "
You really should try playing D&D with them, as Juce suggested, and bring your friend. Then run a game where you do D&D, Palladium style. I converted a few Pathfinder people recently by running their characters as Palladium Fantasy characters- I just converted their character sheets after playing 2 sessions of Pathfinder with them-Most people love not being tied to hex maps! Try something similar.
If you want more advice, feel free to send me a pm.

Thanks guys.

I never said their D&D game sucked but I did rooster an eyebrow when I said "I crash tackle it to the ground!" and everyone had a hemridge because they couldn't find the rules for something like that.

Juce734 wrote:You should take your other friend with you and just play a couple of those DnD sessions until you become close to a couple of the people. Then get to talking about Palladium with those people and invite them over to play after there is a comfort level and they are interested in trying it.

This.

For the time being just enjoy the role playing you are doing no matter what the game. when you are relaxed and in yours and their comfort zones suggest a Rifts (or whatever) game. The thing about it is that you may never get them to choose Palladium Fantasy over D&D but if some people want to play zombies, super heroes, horror, or the "be all" that is Rifts youre not in competition its just a change.

I agree with this. Also, do not let them get to you. Smile with their insults and let them roll off of you. Remember, the key to all of this is to have fun. Maybe see if you can get a game table of your own and get your game on an official schedule [if there is one] - bill it as "Fantasy Gaming Like you never seen before" or something of the sort. Then let them come to you. Have your buddy there hanging with you having fun.

zyanitevp wrote:Remember that you are going to a gathering of D&D- that's kind of like showing up to a Palladium Open House and saying-"This game sucks! We all should be playing (insert system here). "
You really should try playing D&D with them, as Juce suggested, and bring your friend. Then run a game where you do D&D, Palladium style. I converted a few Pathfinder people recently by running their characters as Palladium Fantasy characters- I just converted their character sheets after playing 2 sessions of Pathfinder with them-Most people love not being tied to hex maps! Try something similar.
If you want more advice, feel free to send me a pm.

A/S - you and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but there is some really good advice in this thread.

I am with the above. Go. Play. Enjoy. It is harder to make a "sale" (to use your salesman analogy) when you have no real cache with the customers. You sit in. You play with them and let them get to know you. You build a repetoire with them. THEN the "sale" becomes much easier.

I know you're a good guy regardless of our own personal issues about Palladium but I didn't know that until I got to know you to some extent. I'd game with you in heartbeat now. I never would have originally.

My first advice is move. Seriously. If your real persona is anything like your web presence, then "small red neck country town" sounds like a terrible place for you. Especially with your bias against sheep loving. Who are you to judge!!!

BTW, for those who do not know, Delves are D&D 4e events that are linked combat encounters. Unlike D&D Encounters events which are mini-campaigns played over a season, a Delve is more like playing FFG's Descent or the old HeroQuest boardgame.

AKA, a Delve is not really a RPG session like those that a RPGA Game Day would host. That may be part of the problem.

What happens after the Delve? AKA, does the event go until the store closes? If not, could you run a Rifts game after the delve? Or is there a local pub where you could all eat and play some Rifts too?

Here's my thinking - if lots of people in your area have to drive hours to find a game, then they may be willing to spend a few extra hours after playing something else before doing the drive home. If the Delve organizers have a website, forum, email list etc, see if you can let everybody know you will be running something cool, fun and exciting AFTER the D&D is done. That way you are not competing with the other DMs and not trying to steal players from the D&D event.

The first thing I learned was every single person had an opinion about Palladium and Rifts while only one person had ever played it and from what I understood it was a short-lived game where they played a Werejaguar (and did not understand the rules at all).

What??? Why aren't they just conforming their thoughts to the approved opinions of the Palladium echo chamber???

Yeah....this is problem of engaging players who are not defenders of the faith. PB has almost a NAMBLA level bad reputation among gamers and its bizarre to hear people tell their spooky campfire stories about some nightmare Rifts campaign that a friend of a friend of a cousin once told them about in 1998 that made it unsafe to ever look a Rifts cover again.

You can't convert people who don't want to listen. Don't even try.

Your only hope are people who are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and that comes with trust. Maybe you need to become a Delve DM? If you don't hate 4e, then running Delves can be a lot of fun - especially if you are a good DM who can elevate the combat into something more dynamic and weave roleplaying into the battles.

There are players who care about systems and editions, but most do not. Most players want to play RPGs with a good GM who will make sure they have a good time at the table. If you can prove that you are a Good GM, then some of them will trust you when you invite them over to your place for a Rifts game.

I'd always just figured that "monsters eat people" but apparently thats not a thing in D&D 4E and bringing it up can offend people.

Wow. Again, time to move.

The one new player I got loves it and is at my house every weekened even if the game is not scheduled just encase I run it they love it that much, they've stopped playing other games just to be at my house (its a considerable drive) just on the off chance I'll run it...

That is not a player. That is a stalker.

Put your stalker to work. Tell him to recruit players for you. Give him a deadline and expectations, like get me 4 players for Saturday November 17th for a game from 4pm to 10pm. Reward him with XP and turn a blind eye when he steals your underwear for his "Akashic + Me = 4ever" shrine that he's set up in his closet.

He may get you a good group. I did that in college with a freak of the week and he even found me a girlfriend. She was completely nuts, but really cute. The nutball did recruit a good RPG group for me...albeit I never asked them their thoughts on bestiality.

Akashic Soldier wrote:I never said their D&D game sucked but I did rooster an eyebrow when I said "I crash tackle it to the ground!" and everyone had a hemridge because they couldn't find the rules for something like that.

Sadly, you had a weak DM. That's just a Charge / Grab combo so it's a STR check vs. Reflex with a +1 bonus for the charge and you both end prone if you succeed. Page 290 in the PHB1.

My advice.......jump back into my chat game......forget those guys (never knew Austrailia had rednecks) and bring your warlock back to my game.




In all seriousness, if they don't wish to join your game, you might be forced to look else where, or to lead your own palladium revolution.

Tall tasks to be sure.

Getting people away from 4e D&D is fairly easy in my area. There's gaming conventions where 4e D&D is played but at such a minor scale that it is swamped out by other more specialized games. I ran a Rifts demo at one of these con's a couple years ago and had four people bickering over one copy of a RUE that was for sale. It's all about where you pick your battles and where you pitch the game. Con's that specialize in open gaming where everything is played are venues that are a lot easier to attract players too. Those stuck in 4e D&D .... whatever world it is ... are hard to break from that. Not saying it isn't possible, but it may be a bit tricky. Use the advice the coordinators gave you above as well, it'll really help out.

Good advice all around. My thoughts were along those of zyanitevp.

gasaraki1 wrote:Honestly Man...F**k them!!

gasaraki1 wrote:I have had people that dont like my attitude

Funniest thing Ive read in a long while.