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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:38 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Has anyone smashed these two games together into one setting before? If so, how well did it work and what tweaks did you have to make? I can see this mash up working very well, and I can see where some of the odd pieces might rub up against each other.

Also, would it be better to try to use Nightbane with the first or second edition of Beyond the Supernatural? Looking at the original publication dates it seems that it was put out closer to the first edition. Which, on that note, would it really make any difference since the system itself hasn't really changed all that much?

Thanks in advance,
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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am
  

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Yes. They actually work quite well together. I am also fairly sure Mr. Lucifer has used them together as well.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:11 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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Mr. Jays wrote:
Yes. They actually work quite well together. I am also fairly sure Mr. Lucifer has used them together as well.


This is good to hear. I'm working on throwing something together that takes place in the 1920's and I want to use a lot of elements from both of the settings (and some elements from Dead Reign as well now that I'm thinking about it). On the surface they seem like they should honestly be supplements of the same game rather than different settings in a lot of ways. I'm pretty excited to see what all I can harvest from both.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 pm
  

Hero

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The main concern would likely be with balance depending on the nature of the game. An average nightbane in Morphus form has, before including any physical skills, 28 HP and 100 SDC, with a Supernatural PS of 20.5, PE, and SPD of 20.5 and a PP of 16.5, and the equivalent of HtH Martial Arts with an extra attack per round. Even randomly rolled morphus can then send those totals much higher (I remember a guy who rolled a bizzare character for the morphus and ended up with a centauroid scorpion with biomechanical armor, crystaline growths and the bones stigmata (among others that I don't recall, since he rolled 4 characteristics on the Nightbane Characteristics table); he had nearly 800 SDC in Morphus form!).

Now, in some games those kind of stats next to BTS PCCs would completely skew things. In others they wouldn't.

Would be interesting to rule if a nightbane ally entrring their morphus would trigger an increase in available ISP for the PCCs.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:52 pm
  

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dreicunan wrote:
Would be interesting to rule if a nightbane ally entrring their morphus would trigger an increase in available ISP for the PCCs.


If one of my players decides to roll up a Nightbane, I am 100% stealing this idea. I really love the idea that their Morphus would trigger that. I would probably play it up as being a minor threat (x2 multiplier) at most though. That way it could be used strategically without giving the characters too insane of a boost every time they enter into combat . . .

This has me thinking now . . .

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:56 pm
  

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First question: Is this a BTS game with Nightlords in it or a Nightbane game with BTS themes. If it is BTS with Nightlords in it then balance is going to be a problem as the minions pf the Nightlords are seriously tough and just one hound can cut through a party of regular humans without breaking a sweat.

If you run the Nightbane with BTS themes you could just use Nightbane OCCs. There are human mages, psychics, and soldiers OCCs in especially the first 3 Nightbane books that are all suitable for a BTS style game.

Just a few thoughts

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:46 pm
  

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Knight

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dreicunan wrote:
The main concern would likely be with balance depending on the nature of the game. An average nightbane in Morphus form has, before including any physical skills, 28 HP and 100 SDC, with a Supernatural PS of 20.5, PE, and SPD of 20.5

PE 20 or 21 gives a nice +3 to save vs magic on top of the +4 they inherently enjoy in Morphus, meaning it'll probably take a couple castings of the 10th level spell "Bind Nightbane" (p 144) until it takes, but once it does, forcing them into facade for at least 2 hours is a pretty nice balancer if you can lure some into a 400ft diameter circle.

I believe Nightbane qualify as supernatural beings in morphus, which means you could possibly keep them back using Protection Circle: Simple? Pg 143 only mentions vampires/elementals/Hounds/Hunters/Nightlords as being greater beings. Those who aren't listed (Night Princes, Nightbane) might be lesser beings.

Though it does seem kinda odd that Hounds are somehow greater than lesser beings, but it is what it is.

If PC:Simple didn't work, PC:Superior would since it works on ALL supernatural beings.

Then, if you shift to Facade to get into the circle (seems like it might work) your save vs magic would lower and make you vulnerable to 'Bind Nightbane' from the Night Priest / evil sorcerer / etc. Of course who is vulnerable since he can't rely on supernatural helpers to be in that area.

Nightbane also do not appear to have any inherent bonus to save vs. possession... they'd be just as vulnerable as your average muggle! Even the Nightbane Sorcerer (p118) only gets a mere +2 to save compared to the +4 the normal Sorcerer OCC (p116) gets.

That seems something very valuable to keep in mind.... Nightbane would be #1 priority targets for those using Control/Enslave Entity (also 10th level on p144) to send Possessing Entities against the group. If they're able to possess a nightbane in Morphus and keep control of the body while it's in morphus, that could make it really hard to hold them down to do an exorcism ceremony!


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:32 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
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last i checked, nightbane are immune to mind control.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:36 am
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Shark_Force wrote:
last i checked, nightbane are immune to mind control.

With the specific exception of the spell "Bind Nightspawn"
It is the classic "specific text vs general text"
The RCC may grant blanket immunity... but the spell specifically states that it works on Nightbane/Nightspawn because that is the entire existence of the spell.
Ruling that they are immune to the spell would require stating that the game designers did not intended to write the spell in the first place!

It is sort of how Atlantians are immune to transformation...except that they can be transformed into Tattoo Men.


Anything that states that it is a specific exemption to a general rule is, by the nature of how exemptions work not bound by the rule it is an exemption to!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:32 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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eliakon wrote:
Anything that states that it is a specific exemption to a general rule is, by the nature of how exemptions work not bound by the rule it is an exemption to!


Well said!

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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:56 am
  

Palladin

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eliakon wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
last i checked, nightbane are immune to mind control.

With the specific exception of the spell "Bind Nightspawn"
It is the classic "specific text vs general text"
The RCC may grant blanket immunity... but the spell specifically states that it works on Nightbane/Nightspawn because that is the entire existence of the spell.
Ruling that they are immune to the spell would require stating that the game designers did not intended to write the spell in the first place!

It is sort of how Atlantians are immune to transformation...except that they can be transformed into Tattoo Men.


Anything that states that it is a specific exemption to a general rule is, by the nature of how exemptions work not bound by the rule it is an exemption to!


sure, but to complain that nightbane "only" get a small bonus (in particular compared to regular sorcerers) to save against mind control is disingenuous. nightbane have a bonus of *infinity* against the vast majority of mind control effects that exist. i rather suspect that the average non-nightbane sorcerer would make the trade gladly to be immune to everything except for a rare hyper-specialized effect that has been specially designed to get past their immunity, and let the nightbane have the extra +2 bonus to save, if you were to offer them that chance.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:57 am
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Shark_Force wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
last i checked, nightbane are immune to mind control.

With the specific exception of the spell "Bind Nightspawn"
It is the classic "specific text vs general text"
The RCC may grant blanket immunity... but the spell specifically states that it works on Nightbane/Nightspawn because that is the entire existence of the spell.
Ruling that they are immune to the spell would require stating that the game designers did not intended to write the spell in the first place!

It is sort of how Atlantians are immune to transformation...except that they can be transformed into Tattoo Men.


Anything that states that it is a specific exemption to a general rule is, by the nature of how exemptions work not bound by the rule it is an exemption to!


sure, but to complain that nightbane "only" get a small bonus (in particular compared to regular sorcerers) to save against mind control is disingenuous. nightbane have a bonus of *infinity* against the vast majority of mind control effects that exist. i rather suspect that the average non-nightbane sorcerer would make the trade gladly to be immune to everything except for a rare hyper-specialized effect that has been specially designed to get past their immunity, and let the nightbane have the extra +2 bonus to save, if you were to offer them that chance.

Oh heck yeah.
And more to the point... that means that they are +2 to save against the one attack that is designed to work uniquely to them.
Which is pretty impressive in and of itself!
I mean seriously that is +2 vs Kryptonite! My hats of to them!
Oh, and they ALSO get to stack on their out of this world bonus vs magic since its a spell.

I was just pointing out that this one spell could actually (sorta kinda in a limited way) affect Nightbane.

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