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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:11 am
  

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Is it possible to shrink a hero and fly/teleport into an enemy's mouth into his body or just stay in his mouth.

Then start attacking the enemy's mouth and body from the inside?

So if let's say if a character like ant-man fly or teleport into a bio-borg enemy and then attempt to grow himself inside the bio-borg enemy, wouldn't the enemy explode?

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:07 am
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
V-Origin wrote:
Is it possible to shrink a hero and fly/teleport into an enemy's mouth into his body or just stay in his mouth.

Then start attacking the enemy's mouth and body from the inside?


Sure. No reason you couldn't. Though if you get to the stomach you'd start taking acid damage from digestive fluids

Quote:
So if let's say if a character like ant-man fly or teleport into a bio-borg enemy and then attempt to grow himself inside the bio-borg enemy, wouldn't the enemy explode?


I'd say it'd depend on the relative durability. What happens if you were to grow back to full size while in a tiny Box?

It's possible they'd explode, or you might crush yourself to death. depends on what's tougher.

Two ordinary humans, one with the power of Shrink and nothing else, would propbablly severely injure or kill them both.

If your Invunerable, you'd probablly burst most things by default except other invunerables.

But if you fly into the mouth of someone with APS Steel, and your body is ordinary without super durability, you'd probablly crush yourself and he'd be only moderately harmed.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:58 pm
  

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Also, depending on the alignment of the person using this attack and who/what they use it on, there could be MAJOR PR backlash.

Use this on a monster, you'll be declared a very lucky, brave, and insane hero(it's a favorite trope, in fact, somebody getting swallowed, then fighting their way out from inside).

Use it on a guy you could just have easily decked or clocked with a chair from behind, and people will start calling you a bloodthirsty monster(last time I saw something like this was an issue of the comic The Authority, where a monster-villain snuck into the heroes' HQ by hiding inside the body of a pizza delivery person. The 'surprise introduction' was NOT pretty).

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:04 am
  

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Comment: "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79
"Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81
"Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"

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"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:50 pm
  

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zerombr wrote:
i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"



"Oh no. Not again."

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:35 pm
  

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Comment: "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79
"Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81
"Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
taalismn wrote:

"Oh no. Not again."



and that made it actually funny, nice :D

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Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:05 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
zerombr wrote:
i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"


Any particular reason, other than the obvious Ick factor?

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Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:04 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
zerombr wrote:
i just want to go on record that I LOATHE this sort of concept about as much as 'I just turn into a whale and fall on him!"


Any particular reason, other than the obvious Ick factor?


I can't speak for Zerombr, but for me it ranks in as an auto hit/win which I'm not a fan of.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:01 pm
  

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Comment: "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79
"Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81
"Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
yeah, I hate the idea of auto-wins. The idea of cherry picking specific abilities to work together in ways that are generally against the rules (see using ectoplasm to put pencils in peoples heads or other power ideas that the staff has nixed), just vexes me. If nothing else the idea of a character finding ideas like that a) something they want to repeat, covered in blood and gore at the horror they've caused. b) the character just somehow ended up with these powers that just specifically allow this crazy combo thing to happen.

I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, but you're not really a hero if your main attack plan is 'explode the guy from within', 'drop on the guy as a whale', or otherwise attack him in ways that most people can't defend against turning him into ludicrous gibs.

Hero!

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"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:48 pm
  

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I agree with the others. Ideas like this, while technically possible, go against the spirit of the game and therefore are inappropriate. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

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taalismn wrote:
Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:48 pm
  

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Or the GM allows it, but the resultant PR backlash gets the person who uses the tactic targeted by every hero/villain in the country, backed by the appropriate organizations. The character gets dog-piled by numbers, if not abilities the supposedly unstoppable tactic doesn't work on.

Or, worse yet, the GM allows the same tactic to be used against the person who invented it, if just to prove to the PC just how it feels to be on the receiving end.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:40 pm
  

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Comment: If I could go back in time, I would join the cast of "The Thrilling Adventure Hour"
taalismn wrote:
Or the GM allows it, but the resultant PR backlash gets the person who uses the tactic targeted by every hero/villain in the country, backed by the appropriate organizations. The character gets dog-piled by numbers, if not abilities the supposedly unstoppable tactic doesn't work on.

Or, worse yet, the GM allows the same tactic to be used against the person who invented it, if just to prove to the PC just how it feels to be on the receiving end.


Indeed. This is why I said 'inappropriate' and not 'impossible'.
Yes, you can do it.
No, it is not an appropriate option for a character in this game. Heroes shouldn't even have such thoughts. Villains should know that heroes won't stand for that level of atrocity and will hunt them mercilessly.

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taalismn wrote:
Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:11 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
zerombr wrote:
yeah, I hate the idea of auto-wins. The idea of cherry picking specific abilities to work together in ways that are generally against the rules (see using ectoplasm to put pencils in peoples heads or other power ideas that the staff has nixed), just vexes me. If nothing else the idea of a character finding ideas like that a) something they want to repeat, covered in blood and gore at the horror they've caused. b) the character just somehow ended up with these powers that just specifically allow this crazy combo thing to happen.

I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, but you're not really a hero if your main attack plan is 'explode the guy from within', 'drop on the guy as a whale', or otherwise attack him in ways that most people can't defend against turning him into ludicrous gibs.

Hero!


I can understand that, but I also don't entirely agree with it. Some people do enjoy the challange of combat and turn-by-turn adaption and tactics. Others find their fun in stratagy and and character creation and winning their fights before the game even starts.

The only problem is when they get mixed into the same group. The group that enjoys the thrill of combat feel cheated by those who build Overpowered characters who never feel challanged, while the players making them feel entitled to enjoy the fruits of their cunning and see no reason to make bad choices just to drag out the fight.

I've found the happiest groups are ones where all the players fall into the same catagory. Either they are all the type who want to play Fair with reasonably balanced characters and opponents for the challange of combat, or they're all the type who want to curbstomp the enemies as efficently as possible, preferably with the villians not even getting a turn before their heads explode.

I've also found it's not even really an issue of Roleplayers vs. Powergamers. I've been in several groups of Serious Roleplayers who enjoy playing overpowerd characters so they can cut the combats short to just a turn or two and get back to Roleplaying their characters. Not everyone enjoys the combat aspect of RPG's. Sometimes the reason they want to Gib the villians is just an immature power fantasy, and sometimes Combat's just their least favorite part of the game and they want it to be over ASAP. The idea of an Auto-Win is very attractive if you just want to get back to what you were doing before the villian interupted.

So I do respect your preference for "Fair" fights in Heroes games, but I will point out that doen't mean that everyone who doesn't feel the same way is doing it wrong. I generally, for my part, perfer World-Building games. Last night the session was about the party using their superpowers to save a village from flooding. Not just saving people from drowning or clearing the floodwaters, but figuring out how to salvage crops so they don't have a famine and even trying to fix their infastructure and build a Dam so that kind of flooding doesn't happen again. You don't need a Villain or a fight to have interesting challanges for a Super-Powered party, and frankly in a space-spanning game, a villain twirling his moustash and robbing a bank is probablly the least interesting challange that i'd rather not waste my time with. Explode his head and get back to the fun part.

Really, why dont' more superhero games focus on Noncombat use of Superpowers. I'd rather build a weather control machine then yet another ray gun. Clean Energy and water will save far more lives than punching Dr. Evil in the face 30 times until his SDC is slowly depleted. I'd rather just end the fight quickly and get back to saving the world.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:58 pm
  

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Comment: If I could go back in time, I would join the cast of "The Thrilling Adventure Hour"
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
zerombr wrote:
yeah, I hate the idea of auto-wins. The idea of cherry picking specific abilities to work together in ways that are generally against the rules (see using ectoplasm to put pencils in peoples heads or other power ideas that the staff has nixed), just vexes me. If nothing else the idea of a character finding ideas like that a) something they want to repeat, covered in blood and gore at the horror they've caused. b) the character just somehow ended up with these powers that just specifically allow this crazy combo thing to happen.

I know I can be a bit of a stick in the mud, but you're not really a hero if your main attack plan is 'explode the guy from within', 'drop on the guy as a whale', or otherwise attack him in ways that most people can't defend against turning him into ludicrous gibs.

Hero!


I can understand that, but I also don't entirely agree with it. Some people do enjoy the challange of combat and turn-by-turn adaption and tactics. Others find their fun in stratagy and and character creation and winning their fights before the game even starts.

The only problem is when they get mixed into the same group. The group that enjoys the thrill of combat feel cheated by those who build Overpowered characters who never feel challanged, while the players making them feel entitled to enjoy the fruits of their cunning and see no reason to make bad choices just to drag out the fight.

I've found the happiest groups are ones where all the players fall into the same catagory. Either they are all the type who want to play Fair with reasonably balanced characters and opponents for the challange of combat, or they're all the type who want to curbstomp the enemies as efficently as possible, preferably with the villians not even getting a turn before their heads explode.

I've also found it's not even really an issue of Roleplayers vs. Powergamers. I've been in several groups of Serious Roleplayers who enjoy playing overpowerd characters so they can cut the combats short to just a turn or two and get back to Roleplaying their characters. Not everyone enjoys the combat aspect of RPG's. Sometimes the reason they want to Gib the villians is just an immature power fantasy, and sometimes Combat's just their least favorite part of the game and they want it to be over ASAP. The idea of an Auto-Win is very attractive if you just want to get back to what you were doing before the villian interupted.

So I do respect your preference for "Fair" fights in Heroes games, but I will point out that doen't mean that everyone who doesn't feel the same way is doing it wrong. I generally, for my part, perfer World-Building games. Last night the session was about the party using their superpowers to save a village from flooding. Not just saving people from drowning or clearing the floodwaters, but figuring out how to salvage crops so they don't have a famine and even trying to fix their infastructure and build a Dam so that kind of flooding doesn't happen again. You don't need a Villain or a fight to have interesting challanges for a Super-Powered party, and frankly in a space-spanning game, a villain twirling his moustash and robbing a bank is probablly the least interesting challange that i'd rather not waste my time with. Explode his head and get back to the fun part.

Really, why dont' more superhero games focus on Noncombat use of Superpowers. I'd rather build a weather control machine then yet another ray gun. Clean Energy and water will save far more lives than punching Dr. Evil in the face 30 times until his SDC is slowly depleted. I'd rather just end the fight quickly and get back to saving the world.


You make some excellent points. While I still find murder to be inappropriate for heroes, I do agree with the rest of your post. I too would rather see some variety to the challenges presented in a game rather than yet another villain of the week. Villain of the week games can be a lot of fun, but when that is all you play it gets old.
I like what you're doing in your game. Sounds like a lot of fun!

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taalismn wrote:
Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:12 pm
  

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Comment: "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79
"Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81
"Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud

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Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:06 pm
  

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On the other hand, in RL, unless you've got Rules of Engagement you need to follow, the eyes of the media on you, or ethical scruples, people tend to use the expedient means of getting the job done.

Exploding people from inside falls on the other side of the dividing line(though it depends on your opponent; killing an enemy conscript who can plink at you? Not good. Demon Lord with the potential to kill thousands? Okay.)

It's like the oft-made criticism of Voltron:
"Why don't we START with 'FORM BLAZING SWORD!' if that's our guaranteed kill-it attack?!"

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:34 pm
  

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taalismn wrote:
On the other hand, in RL, unless you've got Rules of Engagement you need to follow, the eyes of the media on you, or ethical scruples, people tend to use the expedient means of getting the job done.

Exploding people from inside falls on the other side of the dividing line(though it depends on your opponent; killing an enemy conscript who can plink at you? Not good. Demon Lord with the potential to kill thousands? Okay.)

It's like the oft-made criticism of Voltron:
"Why don't we START with 'FORM BLAZING SWORD!' if that's our guaranteed kill-it attack?!"


Those people never watched Bleach or Naruto then. You never lead off with your best attack because if your opponent survives it you got nothing left.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:17 pm
  

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zerombr wrote:
I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud
As someone who has had a player have a supposed hero go on a killing spree, I can relate. I do all that I can to discourage instakill tactics.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:46 pm
  

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Stone Gargoyle wrote:
zerombr wrote:
I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud
As someone who has had a player have a supposed hero go on a killing spree, I can relate. I do all that I can to discourage instakill tactics.


Same here. Bad players do have a tendency to inform decisions more than good players do.

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taalismn wrote:
Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:59 pm
  

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i love the splashdown as a whale. The villain caught him and that's when Chris knew he was in trouble
CES

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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:28 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
zerombr wrote:
I'm all for different challenges too. I just like cinematic combat, and if that turns out to be a predictable 'plan A' where someone exploits the rules to instakill somebody repeatedly, and does that every single combat, all the while giggling (and yes I have had this player), then I have absolutely no interest in running for someone who is so gleeful to abuse rules.

Then again I did say I'm something of a stick in the mud


Eh, I would say don't let bad players define the technqiue. Your player there is clearly juvienile, but simply having a power combo doesn't mean it must be applied in every situation when other solutions would resolve it with equal efficacy.

But I think the core difference is you really like Cinematic Combat, and I certainly do enjoy it too, but I don't like it so much I want every fight to go that way. A big Cinematic battle should be the capstone of an arc, with a Villian who for whatever reason is not vunerable to or has ways around the players big combos, forcing them to adapt and improvise.

If Every fight is a cinematic showdown, I just suffer overload and get bored. Not every fight should be an epic showdown, and in fact i'd argue very few fights should be.

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Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:35 pm
  

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I'm not a big fan of the "grow from within" tactic, but a character with Shrink (constant mass) and a flight power could cause massive damage by flying in and staying shrunk, especially if the can reduce themselves to the size of a period.

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