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Hello everyone, i am creating this post because i am currently trying to make a custom revolver (actual a pair of them) as family heirlooms for a Gun Master OCC character i am making and i am curious to see if it is at all possible to somehow make it super easy and fast for the gun to be reloaded. the pistol is a modified .44 magnum revolver with a blade under the barrel.( here is an image im baseing it off of, i do not own this image, it is simply something that i found cool and thought it would be a cool idea. http://hbimg.b0.upaiyun.com/a32248e682a ... dIZ0_fw658 ) the guns have also been enchanted and made MDC with a permanent enchant weapon spell. I am assuming that just because the pistol is enchanted that this would not translate to the ammo when placed inside meaning the damage would still be SDC, although this is just speculation and i am open to other opinions.

so far i have thought about using the spells speed weapon, and superhuman speed in a spell chain, speed weapon probably being the primary spell, to reach the desired result.

i figured that since speed weapon gives you 2 attacks per action but that its only increases the speed not the agility meaning that moving at the faster speed without boosted agility would be difficult to get bullets into their respective spots. i figure that when doubled with superhuman speed that the doubling of attacks might be able to be translated into reloading instead of just attacks. i am also considering adding telekinesis into the spell chain to help aid with loading the gun, making it so that it helps guide the bullets into their slots.

i have also done some digging and found the TW magical sheath in rifter #2 and i am curious if it would be possible to turn it into a holster instead of a sheath. although the TW magic sheaths say they activate the magic upon removal of the weapon. since i don't want the bullets getting shot out of the revolvers as soon as i draw i was wondering if it is possible to, instead of activating the spell chain would it be possible to transfer the built up PPE from the TW magical sheath (holster) into a diamond or emerald or diamond on the weapon, effectively charging it and having the spellchain capable to activate as soon as the user needs it.

Any feedback or advise that you can give or offer is helpful, im still somewhat new to rifts ( I've only been playing for about 6 months) and i am not very knowledgeable about a lot of things

Have you considered purchasing mundane speed-loaders for the guns?

You got there before i did. Almost all of the revolver weapons im aware of have single-action speed loaders available.

Looks like a custom version of the S&W Model 3 Schofield .45 revolver. I would have it capable of taking fullmoon clips for fast reloading.

yes i have thought of useing a speed reloader on the weapon, but i am trying to see if it would be at all possible to build up the speed so much that it can be done as a bonus action.

the double attacks given from speed weapon, the enhanced speed from superhuman speed, with a speed reloader, and the gun masters ability to use a gun like hes had it since birth (and his ability that reduces reload time specifically) i would like to think that all of this would be enough to accomplish this but i am still unsure and am still looking for feedback.



what book is that one in?

Speed loaders can be found in WB14 (New West) pg212, possibly other places.

I wouldn't allow Speed Weapon to be used for reloading. It is for melee weapons only. Superhuman speed wouldn't matter either (its focus is on the legs). Magical Adrenal Rush and Timeslip or Time Hole (or similar) spells might work.

I wouldn't have an issue (off hand) with turning the TW Sheath into a Holster (IIRC I've seen a TW Holster somewhere, but don't know when/where).

I don't think you'll be able to get a gun to reload as a free action. You'd want to check with your GM. If your the GM, you can always house rule it in.

while yes speed weapon is intedned for melee weapons that doesnt mean it is limited to them, im pretty sure that the spell wont just disapear becuase the item has multipul moveing parts. at least thats my reasoning behind it, although i can deffinately see the logic gehind it not deing used for reloading.

and on a similar note superhuman speed when cast on people increases leg speed but that does not mean it is limited to just legs, there are examples of it being used on vehicles as well, and im sure there is a weapon out there somewhere that uses it as well.


and thank you for the suggestions of other spells i really appreciate the help on this

this may be relevant to your needs:

https://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/ ... 9#p1956440

it isn't official, of course

Another approach would be to use TK-38 Endless Revolvers (New West). With those, you don't have a reload for 38 shots. (Assuming your character can recharge a TW weapon.)

Actually, that's exactly what it does. It doesn't function.

Here, the relevant part of the spell:



Bold, Underlined, and Italicized for emphasis. Melee weapon. Full stop.

It also goes on to state:



It works on melee weapons. Only.



It will, in fact, "just disappear" if used on anything other than a melee weapon. You cast the spell, you lose your PPE, AND the spell fails.



Correct, it is limited to doing exactly what the spell says, no more, or less. It gives you a Speed attribute of 44, +2 to parry and +6 to dodge and makes you impervious to fatigue from movement. Thats all it does.



Source? 'cause none that im aware of that aren't the TW Imitator Power Armors, and it is being used to provide their increased SPD attribute. Their flight systems (if they have them) are provided by Flight spells.



Pretty sure not, but feel free to quote that source.



There are no "bonus actions" in Palladium. There are "free" actions - like Auto Parry and Auto Dodge, that dont consume actions, but reloading is not one of those things. There is no "Auto Reload".

Losing an attack to reload isn't the end of the world.

Now if I could upgrade that thing to fire Saturn-Vs...

As Col. Tetsuya said, "Speed Weapon" and "Superhuman Speed" can't really be used this way.

You could create a TW device that has a spell chain that could alter spell parameters, but that is not the same as simply enchanting the weapon (as in the OP). Even then the TW device to use a spell has to match the form and function, and speed loading would not be part of the gun itself IMHO.

At 8th lvl the Gunmaster from China can use ISP to make energy bullets in the gun. The class also has the ability to turn SDC shots into MDC shots at first level, so you don't need to worry about the ammo needing to be enchanted.

What about a different approach? Use some form of dimensional pocket (something similar to the bottomless quiver for arrows) to give the revolver more shots without reloading? It would not be sustainable, but might give you 12, 18, or 24 shots to start without a reload. Basically you have a speed loader with the enhanced payload. Heck, you can have one loaded with silver bullets, or whatever specialty rounds you are using.

A TW Dimensional Pocket Speed Loader would be nasty on something like a Triax Pump weapon, or one of Bandito's Big Bores as well. Have half a dozen with different loadouts ready to go.

i like the idea of useing a dimensianal pocket however i have thought about doing that before but there is a problem. there is nothing to guide the bullets into their slots correctly, a bullet could go in backwards or get jammed. in the case of the bottomless quiver the user has to pull the arrow from the quiver and load it meaning that there is no need for the spell to guide the arrow to be nocked onto the bow.




"A Techno-Wizard might build an engine
based on conventional concepts, but add in spells like Superhuman
Strength to grant a 4-cylinder engine the power of an 8-cylinder engine
when activated, or Superhuman Speed to increase the vehicle's overall
speed and performance." Page 129 Rifts ultimate edition rulebook


yes it does say that it can only be used on a melee weapon but how does it determine that something is a melee weapon? is it becuase it has a blade? my gun has a blade and there are hammers out there and staffs that would be aloud. does it determine if its a melee weapon based off the number of parts a weapon has? the juicer chainsaw has multipul moveing part. does it base it off the ability to be used in hand to hand combat? my gun has a blade and im pretty sure there isnt anything stopping people from useing the stock of a gun to whack someone over the back of the head.

my point is that magic isnt limited on its capabilities. it says in the book of magic that you should expand not limit.

and below is another example of how diffrent kinds of spells can be used in ways that most wouldnt think about, showing that anything can be possible.
"Any number of modifications to technology can be made, especially
because magic can circumvent physics. You might use the spell Impervious to Fire to prevent overheating, or an Energy Bolt spell to power a
laptop computer, or Carpet of Adhesion to give you more traction than
tires could possibly afford." RUE page 129


spells are not fixed they can be changed to fit the situation and need.
"Say you have an automobile with Carpet of Adhesion on the
tires. If you were 5th level, this would last 50 melee rounds, or 12.5
minutes. Unfortunately, at full power, it's enough to act as a braking
system! So the Game Master may allow you to tone it down to 1/1Oth
normal strength, and increase the duration by 10 times, giving it effectively sticky tires and incredible traction, but with a total duration of
over two hours - 125 minutes!" RUE page 129 is an example of how this can be done.

and yet timeslip the spell that you suggested (thank you by the way ) somehow would fit it better?

"while you could build a TW energy cannon out of a
washing machine, it would be incredibly difficult." RUE page 130

it doesnt have to fit the form perfectly or at all it is just easier to create if it does. a washing machine has almost nothing to do with an energy cannon yet it can be made into one. the gunblade i am designing has a blade and is already a weapon so i dont see it as that fer of a jump. and certainly not as extreme as going from a washing machine to an energy cannon

It might help your understanding if you realized that those rules were from a Rifter article, and only included in RUE because people wanted a hard-and-fast system for TW item creation. Kevin even mentions that on page 130. Theyre complicated, and broken and nearly unplayable.

Also, there are no canon examples of that spell chain, either.



Because its magic. Magic isn't science. It doesn't go "well this has a blade on it, so its technically a melee weapon.." its magic. And guns with blades on them aren't melee weapons. They can still shoot.

Magic works the way magic says it does, because its magic. It doesn't have scientific properties to exploit.



Uh, yeah, a hammer or staff is a melee weapon, so of course it would be allowed. (<- proper spelling for allowed; "aloud" is "out loud").



Does the weapon have the ability to be used at range powered by something other than muscle? Then it isn't a melee weapon. It's not that hard of a concept. Yeah, you can grab a rifle by the barrel and beat someone with it.. but that doesn't make it a melee weapon. It makes it a gun that you're beating someone with.



Quite the contrary, Magic is EXTREMELY limited in its capabilities. The spells do what they say they do, and not one thing more or less.



Becauset his isn't altering what Carpet actually does. Carpet makes things sticky. In this modification, it still makes things sticky... simply less so. The spirit of spell is preserved.

Speed Weapon doesn't apply to guns. Full stop. The spirit of the spell and its basic function is limited to melee weapons. Only.

Wavering on being insulting:

What you're trying to accomplish is pure cheese. Maybe dont do that.

so put a machine in there that takes care of all those things. it's just an empty space connected to regular space by a small hole. so long as your loading system is not larger than can fit through that hole, no problem, and there are plenty of systems that can fit into a dimensional hole and connect through a small opening.

i'm really not seeing why this is a problem.

you can either have ammunition stored nearby and loaded in mechanically and automatically through something like a mystic portal, or you can do it extra-dimensionally, or even have a device to automatically teleport object bullets into place (it is highly recommended that you include something in the spell chain to make teleport object more accurate) and it will involve the lowest amount of modifications possible to your heirloom pistols. all you need is something to link one end of the portal to the other, and a conventional machine that is lined up with that portal and designed to load bullets into your gun automatically. (you could also use a TW machine that is designed to load bullets into your gun i suppose).

Ok, I just reread the description of the bottomless quiver in Western Empires, and I would copy it pretty much as is, but for bullets. It does not fit the rules for a TW weapon, and would be something an alchemist would make, using the quiver as a guide/example. I assume that when you load up the quiver you need to put the arrows facing the right direction, as in no pointy in at the top, so the bullets need to be loaded the same way. If you have different bullets loaded (say silver, hollowpoint, and regular rounds) the next shot will be of a random type, unknown to the shooter. That is why I mentioned using one for silver, another for regular etc in my earlier post.

There are not specific rules to make this work, but I think the Bottomless Quiver gives you a guideline to follow. The killer would be finding someone with the knowledge to make it. If this is meant to be a one of a kind magic item handed down for hundreds of years then you can go with the idea that the reloaders are one of a kind, can't be reproduced, or replaced. Maybe a Techno Smith and a few friends could make one.


I also swear I remember a TW vehicle/PA/Robot somewhere that had a extended magazine for missiles using a similar idea, but I might just be smoking something. I know Kitsune did a similar thing with a magical bracer that held a set of daggers.

Speed loaders can reload a revolver in one melee action, according to the listing for them in New West. Doesn't get any faster than that.

If you want to enchant the weapon, just make it indestructible or something.

yeah i've thought of that before. using teleport for the bullets however teleport works by the user touching the object and sending it away. as far as i can tell it cant be used to summon things to the user. however if anyone finds an exception to this i am happy to learn about it



and yet they are still in the RULEBOOK meaning that they are used as the RULES for building TW items.



And yet it is still in the book as an example. therefore it can still be done



i think this explains itself. i was simply demonstrating how the BOOK was showing that spells can be altered to fit the needs of the user.

Page 9
magic is bendable and depends on the user

Page 9
magic isn't limited.


sorry everybody for going off on this tangent i thank you all for all of the tips and advice as well as the suggestions all of the constructive advice is very welcome

Timeslip could work if the enchantment is not TW based (the OP's does not specify that this is a TW gun, only "the guns have also been enchanted and made MDC with a permanent enchant weapon spell." which amounts to regular enchantment).

As far as making it work in a TW device you are correct that form does not have to match function, but it is much easier when it does. Without that match you end up needing additional spells and parts IMHO.

Making a Timeslip spell work could by installing a clock face (working or painted on) that activates every time the cylinder is opened. You might need some other spell(s) in the chain to make it work. Or you could enchant a speed-loader instead, etc. Nothing requires the Timeslip spell to be done to the gun itself.


Convert the revolver into a mechanically belt fed system from the dimensional pocket.

Or use Teleport: Lesser to move ammo from a (mystically connected) ammo belt/container to the gun (as you have two guns, you need 2 belt/containers). You might need a few other spells in the chain, and probably put a restriction on distance for teleporting.

how would the belt fed system work? i love the ideas and advice that you bring to the table however i feel like some are at time a bit to complex for me. i think i would have to see a drawing or example of the belt fed idea to understand how it would work.

and i like the idea of teleporting the ammo but as i do believe i mentioned before teleport only teleports items away from the user after they touch them. i am curious about the mystically connected idea though would you happen to have any examples of this being done or described before? it sounds like a good idea and if its possible then i may already have a good idea/setup for it.

Mechanically it would work just like any other belt fed ammo system. Only in this case the belt connects the Revolver and the Dimensional pocket space, the belt acts like the hand reaching into the pocket to put/pull something out.

It probably would require a customized cylinder in order for the dimension pocket to work.

There was at least one belt-fed revolver historically.
https://fishgame.com/2014/11/belt-fed-revolver/


Mystically Connected examples:
-WB2's Symbiotic Weapon Modification (pg125) allows a weapon to appear in the owner's hands. This is Biowizardry.
-MercOps TW Derringer (pg141) it teleports in from a pocket dimension.

I think I've seen similar TW/magical features elsewhere I just don't have the time to look for them (I know one is a PF magic weapon feature)

Teleport the spell works to move it away from the mage and require them to touch it, TW version need not. You might need some additional spells in the chain, but since you can set the destination each slot on the belt corresponds to a cylinder (for the destination). You could only use one belt with one gun (that is what I mean by mystically connected), sort of like Circle of Travel (high level teleport spell).

Actually, theyre OPTIONAL rules.



Except it doesn't say that.



Flavor text are not rules. Please show me where it says "a spell can do a bunch of things it doesn't say it can do"

Dont worry, ill wait.

Also, your interpretation is off. All this is saying is that unlike, say, electricity, which is a form off energy that is strictly limited in its applications, Magic as a whole can do just about anything. It is NOT saying that any spell can do anything.



No, but individual spells are.



Suggesting that you actually obey the rules is plenty constructive.

I mean, look, ive dealt with more than my fair share off powergaming cheeseheads and i know its impossible for people like that to ever admit that you've been proven wrong, but seriously.

Imagine if instead of constantly trying to seize on flavor text to break the game, you actually just obeyed the rules, and didnt try to constantly subvert the rules and their intent.

You cant get free reloads. Get over it.

shadow logan thank you once more for the suggestions and help on the development of this weapon. thank you once more for the ideas about the belt fed and the chain gun ideas but i would like to try to keep it more like a conventional revolver. but great ideas nonetheless

and thank you for the information on the teleport spell it is helpful. and in regards to the mystically connected idea i believe that i had misunderstood you, when you said "mystically connected" i thought you were saying that the weapon was connected or "bonded" with another peice of equipment, for example possibly a holster. this was my train of thought and i was thinking that if this where possible that i could link the cylinder of ther revolver with an ammo bag and have the ammo teleported into it, efectivly reloading. the caseings left in the cylinder would be telleported into the bag or just outside of the gun. anyway that is what was going through my head when you had mentioned mystical connection. so thank you for the advice.

Hi, just my 2 cents.
Draw the weapon up then sit down with your GM. Explain to Him/Her/Them your ideas and work on it together. Once finished, let your GM work it into the story then Yosemite Sam it up. Heck maybe you can shoot so much and often you can attain a small degree of Flight: Hover with it!

J.

hahaha i like the enthusiasim, and thank you for the support. although i feel like i am missing something when you say "yosemite sam it up." i get the general idea behind what you but if there is any kind of joke or refrence in these words then its lost on me, sorry

Not knocking on you but I'd guess you are fairly young then, or perhaps from outside the US?

In any event -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tiun-2iwrg

Yes watch that video!

There's a weapon that's going to snag badly on something....

ok now i get the referance. i used to watch luneytunes as a kid but i was never any good at remembering any names other then bugs bunny and daffy duck.

as for the revolver i am leaning toward the teleporting ammo idea. but i would still like some input and ideas, possibly some help strucuring and refineing a spell chain that could accomplish the task.

If you are going to shoot that much, perhaps you can reload this way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuwo76h6jgY

-STS