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 Post subject: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:51 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:01 am
Posts: 24
3 quick questions. Humans from Wormwood are minor m.d.c. beings. Do they also regenerate faster than a normal human? Second, do they have supernatural strength? And third, do they have supernatural endurance? Thanks for your responses.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:33 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador

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grimmhold wrote:
3 quick questions. Humans from Wormwood are minor m.d.c. beings. Do they also regenerate faster than a normal human? Second, do they have supernatural strength? And third, do they have supernatural endurance? Thanks for your responses.


Natives of Wormwood are mega-damage creatures, but human in every other way.

Page 45 Wormwood.

So no, no, and no.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:15 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:19 am
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi
Amusingly enough, Wormwood human fist fights are basically tapping each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:10 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
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The default rate of healing for MDC creatures was 2D6 MDC per day, so yes they do heal faster. That's an average of 4. Even with proper medical care I think humans only heal 2 HP / 4 SDC per day, unless you're playing N&SS/TMNT where you heal SDC every hour.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:28 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 285
Cranus wrote:
Amusingly enough, Wormwood human fist fights are basically tapping each other.

Actually...

http://palladiumbooks.com/background-and-settings

"10 In Wormwood since everyone is a Mega-damage being does that mean physical attacks cause no damage, ie. a punch or normal sword. This seems to imply that people of wormwood can beat each other up till the cows come home and only suffer fatigue from failing away at each other
Answer: Wormwoodians are mega-damage beings in reference to SDC objects from other dimensions. Swords and fists will inflict standard damage within their own dimension."


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:55 pm
  

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Knight

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So based on that a Wormwood human can beat a Wormwood human to death with an MDC Ironwood stick, but couldn't scratch a Vanguard Brawler with the same stick? For that matter, an Earth human could beat a Wormwood human to death with the same stick?

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:48 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

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I take it to mean SDC creatures do SDC damage, forex 1d4 for a punch. When wielding an SDC object they do SDC damage. When wielding an MDC object, they do not do MDC damage. ETA: Weapons explicitly doing MDC damage ate an exception,forex vibroblades or rune weapons.

MDC creatures do MDC damage, 1d4 MDC for a punch. No bonus damage, no supernatural PS.When wielding an MDC object, they do MDC damage. When wielding an SDC object, they do SDC damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:08 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Just run the whole setting in SDC. It works far better.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:02 am
  

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Knight

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Thorr-kan, the problem, at least for me is MDC guy does MDC damage and SDC guy does SDC damage takes SNPS/strength level out of the equation. What happens when your MDC Wormwood guy (remember, Woodwood guy has regular PS) punches an SDC guy? What happens when Wormwood guy punches MDC armor?

My earlier example with the Ironwood enchanted stick is a MDC item that does SDC with normal PS. You normally need higher level PS to do MDC with with an Ironwood item.

Thanks Braden, you have a point.

I remember years back we had a Woodwood character pop up and did something weird in our group using AR. As I recall we gave the WW guy super high levels of SDC(100 SDC for each of his MDC points), and a high AR(maybe 18?). That way two WW guys could kill each other, but it will take a LOOOOONG time.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:26 am
  

Hero

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:49 am
Posts: 1301
RockJock wrote:
Thorr-kan, the problem, at least for me is MDC guy does MDC damage and SDC guy does SDC damage takes SNPS/strength level out of the equation. What happens when your MDC Wormwood guy (remember, Woodwood guy has regular PS) punches an SDC guy? What happens when Wormwood guy punches MDC armor?

My earlier example with the Ironwood enchanted stick is a MDC item that does SDC with normal PS. You normally need higher level PS to do MDC with with an Ironwood item.

Thanks Braden, you have a point.

I remember years back we had a Woodwood character pop up and did something weird in our group using AR. As I recall we gave the WW guy super high levels of SDC(100 SDC for each of his MDC points), and a high AR(maybe 18?). That way two WW guys could kill each other, but it will take a LOOOOONG time.

That solution (just make all the mdc super high sdc with a high natural AR to beat) seems like a decent solution to all MDC. You could set a damage number (say 80) that bypasses the AR automatically.

I also have often thought that a damage threshold would have been a better solution for mdc.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:58 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 285
RockJock wrote:
What happens when your MDC Wormwood guy (remember, Woodwood guy has regular PS) punches an SDC guy?

He does 1d4 MD. No strength bonus to damage.

RockJock wrote:
What happens when Wormwood guy punches MDC armor?

He does 1d4 MD. No strength bonus to damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm
  

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Knight

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MDC damage without enhanced strength just doesn't jive for me. If it works that way then a SDC human should be able to pick up and MDC stick and do MDC damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:04 am
  

Hero

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:49 am
Posts: 1301
RockJock wrote:
MDC damage without enhanced strength just doesn't jive for me. If it works that way then a SDC human should be able to pick up and MDC stick and do MDC damage.
Perhaps it would make more sense if you think of the wormwood humans as having been warped by the planet to be able to do mdc damage to mdc things. In other words, it works because magic.

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Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:05 am
  

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Knight

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Like I said, we did it with the SDC/AR trick in my group. You can easily go with WW people doing MDC to everything magically, though I would just go ahead and give them some kind of enhanced PS/SNPS if I was going that route. That way WW people fit in with the rest of the Megaverse. You can just as easily go with the original, as written that WW humans can't really hurt each other via fistacuffs. You can still kill hurt somebody unarmed, but not as easily (sleeper hold for example). Or you can go with the Q&A answer.

I get that the Q&A says a punch from a WW guy or SDC sword does MDC damage in their dimension. It also opens up about as many problems as it solves because it only talking about the WW dimension. Will an SDC sword or punch damage a WW human on Rifts earth? Will a SDC M2 .50 Cal now do gigantic MDC in WW? To muddy things even more the book talks about the Apok doing MDC damage to supernatural baddies with SDC weapons, AND doing only SDC punch damage to mortals, which to me would include WW humans.

As long as your group plays Wormwoodians with some internal consistency it doesn't really matter which version you use. That's one of the advantages in PB games.

I have not gone back and reread Wordwood in ages, so I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any mention of SDC guns, but they do have magic TW flintlocks.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:26 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
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Is there really a problem if you allow MDC humans from wormwood to pummel each other forever without hurting each other?


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:51 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Axelmania wrote:
Is there really a problem if you allow MDC humans from wormwood to pummel each other forever without hurting each other?

Since that exact issue was one of the problems brought up by the people in this thread. And those posters presented it as being a problem from their view point/in their games...
The answer would be a pretty clear cut, slam dunk 100% no brainer "yes, yes it is"
You can qualify that with "for some games" but seriously... if someone posts a question about something that they see as a problem then yes there is a problem there from their point of view.
Especially if there are multiple posts that then follow on from other people about ways to solve said problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:51 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
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eliakon wrote:
Since that exact issue was one of the problems brought up by the people in this thread.

Cranus brought it up first and merely called it amusing, not a problem.

Thorr-kan linked an amazing "backgrounds and settings" page I can't recall having seen before (which I overlooked completely, first time reading this thread) very pretty.

RockJock had questions about how to interpret it.

eliakon wrote:
And those posters presented it as being a problem from their view point/in their games...

RockJock mentioned "the problem, at least for me is MDC guy does MDC damage and SDC guy does SDC damage takes SNPS/strength level out of the equation"

It sounds like he was calling the ruling at palladiumbooks.com/background-and-settings a problem, not the pre-errata offline RAW which didn't give any MD punches mundane Wormwoodians.

I agree with RJ and would also point out that it makes "Art of Defense" (pg 60) very strange since it only does 2D4/2D6 MD to "supernatural monsters" and does 3D6/5D6 SDC to "mortal creatures". As far as I know, Wormwoodians would still be mortal creatures...

This also makes Apoks a little bit less special, because aside from the doubling-benefit, a large benefit they have is converting SDC damage into MD. Why go to the trouble of pointing something out if it was only applicable off-planet? DB1 had symbiotes losing their powers immediately off-planet, which is still the case unless you have access to that special ritual from Firetown, far as I know.

eliakon wrote:
if someone posts a question about something that they see as a problem then yes there is a problem there from their point of view.

OP grimmhold's questions didn't involve calling anything a problem.

eliakon wrote:
if there are multiple posts that then follow on from other people about ways to solve said problem.

Solving the problem of the lack of MD punches, or solving the wording of their introduction in BAS10?

    1. Wormwoodians are mega-damage beings in reference to SDC objects from other dimensions.
    2. Swords and fists will inflict standard damage within their own dimension.

I'm very interested in discussing how to interpret that. MD beings are generally such in regard to SDC objects from any dimension (and in regard to MD objects too, for that matter...) so is it perhaps meant to imply they are not MD beings in reference to...
    1) SDC objects from Wormwood's dimension
    2) MDC objects from other dimensions

It's been a while since I checked the book, I'm trying to remember if there was even a universal statement about common weapons being MDC objects or inflicting MD. Page 42 describes hardened resin as being "as strong as steel" but I think steel can still be/inflict SDC.

Page 59 mentions "resin chain mail" having 20-40 MDC which is the first explicit reference I can find to resin being MDC.
Page 69 references "the lightest resin armor" offering 20 and "various types of light resin armor" providing 40 (other examples do not mention resin)
Page 118 mentions resin chain mail providing 40

Although there's higher MDC armor throughout the book, I didn't notice any which was explicitly "resin" so 40 seems to be the highest confirmed amount it can provide, chain mail being one of the "various types" which do so.

There could be plenty of explanations for how Wormwoodians enhance SDC-damag-inflicting resin weapons to inflict MD against monsters without needing special rules. Pg 50 mentions there are Temporal Wizards and "four spells of choice (any level)" so you could just say a couple selected the 15th level "Enchant Weapon (minor)" and they top them up every month or so once they revert to inflicting meager SDC.

This clearly isn't the case with some of them though, since we know EWM doubles the SDC damage and on 82 Dorsey Penecost has a broadsword with a "doubling crystal" (pg 109 is a stone, not a crystal...) that does 2d8/4d4 instead of the usual 1d8/2d4 that broadswords normally do.

In that case, maybe he just has a super-long-duration "Power Weapon" cast on his broadsword. There might be a diabolist-for-hire affixing permanence wards to swords to keep them enchanted with that, or a TTGD variation with higher-degree durations.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:23 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
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Location: Nashville.....ish....
To clarify my position I'm ok with WW humans being MDC beings with standard PS, and no ability to do MDC damage with their bare hands. They can still kill each other, but not easily. I'm just as happy with WW humans gaining something like Augmented PS or similar that lets them do low end MDC if they work at it(Power Punch etc). I do not like the Q&A version because it leaves too many unanswered questions based on different situations/combinations.

I'm good with any decision, just try to play it consistently.

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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:14 am
  

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Adventurer

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I'd make their strength be considered augmented so they can do MD on power punches.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:36 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
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Maybe there are some non-damage ways they could kill each other, such as strangulation or drowning?


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:32 pm
  

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Explorer

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Comment: Reflux adept.
Asphyxiation seems to be the way to go for Wormwood human vs human combat.

Starving people makes them weak or dead in weeks and denying water them makes them dead in days.


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 Post subject: Re: Humans from Wormwood
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:23 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5294
I remember hearing something about SDC weapons harming MDC creatures in Dinosaur Swamp but I can't remember where to look. Page 10 talks about hunting them... page 12 mentions "if the weapon at hand won't pierce the hide or skull, or do much damage, the eye is a perfectly viable target. Even if it doesn't pierce the brain cavity, the animal is blinded" but it's not very statistical... there's "could possibly do as much as triple damage" further down, but due to "would be considered Critical Strikes" I don't know if you could stack it with a natural 20.


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