Board index » Across the Megaverse® » G.M.s Forum

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:27 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:20 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Western Kentucky
So one of my players has chosen to play as a Techno-Wizard, and this is going to be my first time GMing with a TW in the group. So my question for you all is how do you handle the creation times? I like the new rules and how everything is fleshed out but I hate how long it takes just to put even a (relatively) basic flaming sword together. Of course my player is always trying to use his free time in game to work on his creations but managing adventuring while also working on the construction of their items is a chore to say the least and I know he'd enjoy the class more if he actually was creating and prototyping in a quicker manner. While I want to change the amount of time it takes to create such items I don't want to unbalance the game by allowing him to create things too quickly either and figured I'd see if anyone else had any advice.

So do you all use the by the book length of time and creation rules, or something more home brewed?

_________________
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, Rage against the dying of the light. - Dylan Thomas


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:42 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15025
Location: Eastvale, calif
The firs thing that comes to mind is to ask people here to review the purposed TW magic item.

Sorry about the time aspect you don't like, but …..to make a regular flame sword takes an alchemist over three months to enchant. So TW's have it easy time wise when compared to those that make regular magic items.
But look at it this way, the rules does not say that the TW has to build it all in one go. So a little now and a little later, then some more tomorrow, it s possibility.

_________________
Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

My Artwork


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:32 am
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 28341
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
SlaytheDragon wrote:
So one of my players has chosen to play as a Techno-Wizard, and this is going to be my first time GMing with a TW in the group. So my question for you all is how do you handle the creation times? I like the new rules and how everything is fleshed out but I hate how long it takes just to put even a (relatively) basic flaming sword together. Of course my player is always trying to use his free time in game to work on his creations but managing adventuring while also working on the construction of their items is a chore to say the least and I know he'd enjoy the class more if he actually was creating and prototyping in a quicker manner. While I want to change the amount of time it takes to create such items I don't want to unbalance the game by allowing him to create things too quickly either and figured I'd see if anyone else had any advice.

So do you all use the by the book length of time and creation rules, or something more home brewed?


::puts on Old Man hat::
Back in my day, Technowizard PCs couldn't invent any new device at all, except ones that simply cast spells that functioned as if the TWs cast them.
They could make devices to cast spells for them, and they could convert existing power sources to Techno-Wizardry.
That's it.
And that was pretty good. It was a good enough class.

As of RUE, you have PCs that can create devices that do WHATEVER the GM and PCs decide that the devices should be able to do.
And people are complaining about creation time...?
How long did it take Edison to invent the lightbulb?
How long does it take a lone smith to forge a sword?
How long does it take a gunsmith to make a good weapon?
How long does it take for most important things to be created by a lone craftsman/artisan?
A long time.
The more important, usually the longer the time it takes.
Because things that are worth doing, take time.

::takes off Old Man hat::

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:51 am
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15025
Location: Eastvale, calif
Killer Cyborg wrote:

How long did it take Edison to invent the lightbulb?

Point of myth'conception...
Edison didn't invent the lightbulb. He just invented the long lasting filament for use in lightbulbs.
;)
Sort of like the Myth'conception about how the"Puritans" were fleeing intolerance. Or the Myth'conception that lemmings mass migrate (run into the sea) when their population gets too large. (Thank Disney for this one)

_________________
Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

My Artwork


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:33 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6152
Location: WI
Quote:
While I want to change the amount of time it takes to create such items I don't want to unbalance the game by allowing him to create things too quickly either and figured I'd see if anyone else had any advice.

Well there are a few ways w/n the rules to manipulate the amount of time it takes:
-Primary Gem quality (higher the better as it will reduce the PPE Construction Cost when you do the math, which will influence the construction time), this could get expensive/difficult to procure
-rules do allow for a rush job (RUE pg135, 2/3 time and 1/3 time BUT you take a skill penalty)

How the PPE is "spent" during construction really isn't stated, and it seems unrealistic to expect a TW to work for several days straight (or more) on a project so "breaks" seem like something that is expected during the process. I would probably allow some time reduction IF the character has built several of the item before (or something very similar) owing to familiarity with assembly/procedures.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:40 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
Posts: 4916
Location: Right behind you.
Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
Cure minor disorders, create water, a ceramic cup, some wiring and a gem or 2.

pay 4 PPE, free coffee for the rest of your life.

That's what TW's should be doing. Water/waste management, basically, use ley lines to improve quality of life. Weapons are good for business, but there's so much competition. :P

_________________
Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:24 am
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 257
Unless your player has a proven design to work from pay attention to the prototype notations. It very unlikely a first attempt will turn out as intended. Time Hole is the spell your player needs. My Temporal Wizard uses Time Hole to get enough time to enchant Talismans. In his case he needs time to accumulate the PPE. TW are not really adventuring characters if they want to build stuff. The Rifts novels have a TW in them who is always pulling all nighters to work on his gadgets.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:40 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 4187
An APC converted to be a mobile work shop also helps.

_________________
Under the Pain of Death
I would Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:32 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 3:45 am
Posts: 106
I guess it all depends on what sort of campaign you're running, but why can't there be some down-time between sessions? Most adventurers wouldn't be on the road constantly, but rather journey to one town, maybe hire a room at a tavern for a few weeks while in town, go check out a few job offers for adventurers, etc. Obviously if you're running an ongoing adventure there may not be much downtime (using the old D&D staple, while you're in the dungeon itself), but after that particular jaunt you might allow the PCs a week or two to recuperate. If the TW was making a simple device that can be easily carried he could easily make that in the downtime and take it around with him to fiddle with, although it may be difficult to do the same with larger items if the group was frequently on the road. That being said, why not turn the actual construction process into an adventure itself? The PCs have to find a mechanics shop to work on a particular device. Once they've found it they may need to find ways to hide what they're doing in there, otherwise local urchins take notice and before long they have a bunch of kids hanging around outside to check out this strange gadget being built in the creepy workshop!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:24 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 5742
Location: Clone Lab 27
I have extended set of house rules to handle TW item creation.

I tend to do a cinematic invention where something is designed and built in a single session.

By the book he can run all the formulas he wants you decide the end affect.

_________________
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:29 pm
  

Adventurer

Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:49 am
Posts: 499
Location: Garden of Dreams
Comment: I don't know what i'm doing, that's for realities GM to figure out
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:

How long did it take Edison to invent the lightbulb?

Point of myth'conception...
Edison didn't invent the lightbulb. He just invented the long lasting filament for use in lightbulbs.
;)
Sort of like the Myth'conception about how the"Puritans" were fleeing intolerance. Or the Myth'conception that lemmings mass migrate (run into the sea) when their population gets too large. (Thank Disney for this one)


myth'conception? I think I've read that book, have you heard of a pervert?...I mean a pervect?

and so in other words the time for Edison to invent the lightbulb...is still counting?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:25 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9478
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
One thing I do is that I have the player roll their success roll for the design...
...behind my DM screen.
That way they do not know if the plans they worked up really work or not until they either go back over them and 'proof read' them (do a second design roll) or they build a prototype and test it.

This makes people rather leery of using huge hard to get stones like 10 or 20ct stones in their first tries...
...this tends to cut down on the "I'll just keep rolling until I succeed on the design, then make my device at level 1 with 10 or so extra carets so that it will cost next to nothing to make and use and only a few hours to cobble together" shenanigan that I tend to see in far, far, far too many P TWs.
Now don't get me wrong, I want TWs to be able to build things. Heck if a design is cool enough I will simply wave my hands after the design and say "eureka you did it, your positive this is it" regardless of what, or even if they have rolled. Rule of cool > random dice and all that. But at the same time when someone wants to make the "perfect weapon" that will do a number of horrible things, at a huge range, and costs 1PPE to fire... then they will never manage to make it work. A successful roll will simply tell them that they don't think the design is possible as planned and they will need to go back to the drawing board. Normally though it never gets to that point as most PCs tend to discuss devices before hand and am willing to say "Sure" "Never" and "That's awesome go to it"

Basically, if the TW wants to have fun and be a contributing member of the party I make sure that they can do that, even if I have to bend a few rules here and there. If the TW wants to break the game, or PvP in a non-PvP game, or horn in on other characters niches so they can be better than the specialist at their own game? Then they will find that it won't work no matter how they try (And they will get a stern talking to and repeated behavior will result in being asked to find a different game)

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:46 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 2
These are all great ideas. (Hi baby DM here :D) I really like the idea of needing a draft design and blueprints and having to build prototypes. I've got an operator and a technowizard in my group (though the TW is my party NPC so he's kinda moot really) But they're also not the kind of characters to go and make serious weapons and such really...


But they are both coffee addicts so maybe that TW ceramic mug would be a thing.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Whoops, I moved. Tulsa, OK now
Comment: Anything worth killing is worth overkilling.
Yes, it's in the book as a playable class, but they're not as "adventure ready" as some others.

"A Glitter Boy, a Cyber-Knight, two Juicers and a Techno-Wizard (or Body Fixer, etc.) walk into a firefight with a Coalition S&D squad..."

_________________
"Then one day, I was just walking down the street and I heard a voice behind me say, 'Reach for it Mister.', and I spun around and there I was face to face with a six-year-old kid.
Well, I just threw my guns down, walked away. Little bastard shot me in the ass.”

-Waco Kid (Blazing Saddles)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:10 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 257
SlaytheDragon wrote:
So one of my players has chosen to play as a Techno-Wizard, and this is going to be my first time GMing with a TW in the group. So my question for you all is how do you handle the creation times? I like the new rules and how everything is fleshed out but I hate how long it takes just to put even a (relatively) basic flaming sword together. Of course my player is always trying to use his free time in game to work on his creations but managing adventuring while also working on the construction of their items is a chore to say the least and I know he'd enjoy the class more if he actually was creating and prototyping in a quicker manner. While I want to change the amount of time it takes to create such items I don't want to unbalance the game by allowing him to create things too quickly either and figured I'd see if anyone else had any advice.

So do you all use the by the book length of time and creation rules, or something more home brewed?

I suggest you read the Rifts novels. The TW in them modifies a few weapons and is on at least the second prototype of a forcefield for his NG Skyking. The first iteration cut of air flow into the jet intakes. Your player needs to focus on slight modifications to existing TW designs. Perhaps the TW has the designs for a few devices from his apprenticeship/education. Maybe start with something like modifying the TW Lightblade in RUE to remove the Life Source so he has a design that works like a normal TW design. Unfortunately designing machines is not a task measured in hours. It is often measured in man-years. I am a mechanical engineer in the aerospace business with decades of design experience.


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group