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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:54 pm
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:19 am
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For all those that have the game and played. Is buying the game worth the time and effort. I've Asked my local gaming store if anyone has been playing and the response is not good. I love robotech and the few finished pieces I've seen look amazing. I'm also worried about the games future with all the issues about getting future mini's out. To me I'm getting the same feeling i got with the RIFTS card game towards its end ( sad face). Is there an good videos of game play out there anywhere.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:55 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:55 am
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Location: On board the Dixon covering my squads back
Comment: Macross fan first
Robotech fan second
I played the game a few times just to get used to the rules. They were ok nothing groundbreaking about them. Except the game kinda slows down when you get into melee combat because instead of just rolling to attack like most games you have to stop and decide which HtH attack to use and if you want to use command points or not. Then there's the trouble folks have had with the blast rules. There's also the fact that some rules are scattered all over the book while others are in small print on cards that can be easily lost.

Then there's the models themselves. First off there not miniatures, there miniature models. So if you've ever built a 1/72 scale Valkyrie with all those pieces then you know what your in for. Parts that should be only one piece are split like the heads of the vf-1 in robot mode. In fact you have to glue the cockpit separately and that is one of the smallest pieces on the sprue that it's easily missed or lost. The zentradi models aren't so bad except the tiny bits for the Glaug and the scout pod. You'll spend more time building than playing at first. In my neck of the woods everyone laughs at the game and PB. So instead of getting new players I just put my two boxes in the closet collecting dust.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:04 pm
  

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Location: On board the Dixon covering my squads back
Comment: Macross fan first
Robotech fan second
Almost forgot to add results will vary from person to person. But overall this game has received less than great reviews from various online bloggers. If you want to play a mass combat game you could try battletech, drop zone commander, or X Wing. X Wing alone has a solid set set of rules. It's by far one of the better/fun games out there.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:59 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 259
It really depends on what you're in for. As Kryptt said, the rules appear to be passable, but nothing particularly inspired. And there appears to be no movement (though frequent claims to be doing so) on fixing them.

The miniatures when done WELL are quite good, but getting them to that stage if you're not reasonably proficient or better, and in the numbers needed (a standard 300pt game appears to require in the neighborhood of 30 miniatures, unless working to avoid Pods or Valks), appears to be a lot of work.

There were supposed to be some gameplay videos under consideration (Update 137), but almost 18 months later, nothing. Inability to work to deadline seems to be one of the two biggest problems with the campaign/company (the other being inability to communicate often and in a manner that smooths rather than ruffles feathers).

Obviously at this point, anyone with an opinion is going to be biased. So you need to take that into account. Personally, if you are interested in the game to that level, checking EBay for people getting out probably isn't a bad idea. But I'd warn against investing more than a token amount while the future is still in flux. If/when Wave 2 arrives, you'll at least know that you aren't getting half a promise. Of course, you'll still then have to contend with the bad PR and lack of impetus the game has.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:40 pm
  

Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:43 pm
Posts: 26
If you like, or would like to try your hand at, building a fairly complex miniature you will enjoy what is in the box. If you like fairly simple mini games you will also like it. If you are scared of or have no experience at building miniatures you should avoid. If you have rules lawyer tendencies, or want to be able to reference things on the fly (and yes, those are typically apposed gaming personalities but it is true) then you won't like it. A few tricks I have employed: take your box to the local store on the day/night they have mini building/painting/advice whatever going on. Offer other people to build your mini, teach you how to (something), or whatever. They will get built faster and you might find someone else who will do some test games with you. It may even sell another box or two at your local store... which is at least good for the store.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:49 pm
  

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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:55 am
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Location: On board the Dixon covering my squads back
Comment: Macross fan first
Robotech fan second
Morgan Vening wrote:
There were supposed to be some gameplay videos under consideration (Update 137), but almost 18 months later, nothing.



Actually there is a gameplay video out on YouTube featuring one of the mods here, unfortunately there are several rules inconsistencies that give out the wrong information.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:11 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 259
Kryptt wrote:
Morgan Vening wrote:
There were supposed to be some gameplay videos under consideration (Update 137), but almost 18 months later, nothing.

Actually there is a gameplay video out on YouTube featuring one of the mods here, unfortunately there are several rules inconsistencies that give out the wrong information.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt by not mentioning that. It being a volunteer rather than a PB employee, and it being notably terrible on getting things right, I didn't want to unfairly associate it with an official response.

It's rare, but sometimes nothing is better than something.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:28 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:14 pm
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It was the first time doing anything like this for me. Over all, not bad. Yes, I will agree, they need to work on getting the number of parts per model down, but over all, again, not to bad. Rules, not to bad either. Again, never played any games like this before, but still was having fun. Over all, it still needs some work, but if they can fix them, and get some momentum going, if could be a good game.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:56 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:35 am
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Location: somewhere between Tolkeen and Chi-Town
Comment: I'm a Derrik, Derriks don't run.
The mini models are a pain to assemble and paint. Unless you are skilled you are better off finding someone with the skills to do it. They do look good when properly done. Not having anyone around here who plays and I got a similar response at the local gaming stores I cannot say either way about the rules. The one time I played was with the guy who is painting my minis and the rules seemed basic enough. We never really got into any hand to hand.

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"The Devil's among us!
Stay back boy!...This calls for Divine Intervention!
I kick arse for the Lord!"
-Father McGruder- Braindead (a.k.a. Dead Alive)


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:24 pm
  

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Sir_Nytehawk357 wrote:
For all those that have the game and played. Is buying the game worth the time and effort. I've Asked my local gaming store if anyone has been playing and the response is not good. I love robotech and the few finished pieces I've seen look amazing. I'm also worried about the games future with all the issues about getting future mini's out. To me I'm getting the same feeling i got with the RIFTS card game towards its end ( sad face). Is there an good videos of game play out there anywhere.


There is a gameplay video on youtube from the Open House but as stated before it's horrible. The Megaversal Ambassador who is giving it makes a mistake literally every time models interact (at least for the first few minutes which is all I could take before stopping) and there are no painted models nor any terrain. It has a "we thought of this and prepped for 5 minutes" kind of feel and unfortunately that is the "best" how to play video we have. The video quality and audio are also not great. I found it after I finally decided to try and learn the rules. I read through the book once and found myself constantly referring back to it while the video was running because what the demo guy was saying didn't make sense. After finding the fourth or fifth basic mistake in as many model interactions, I realized it was doing more harm then good as a learning tool and stopped watching. I imagine the lack of painted minis, terrain, and overall prep and polish do the same as a sales tool as well.

As for whether or not it is "worth the time and effort", that answer is very personal and varies from person to person. I can only tell you what experiences I've had and how they've shaped my current opinion. Folks have already covered the minis and the rules and I generally agree with what was posted (the rules are OK with a few obvious exceptions and the minis are too much of a hassle compared with the competition to build). I'll instead cover the other integral part of playing the game, the community i.e. finding someone to actually play with.

When the kickstarter was running, I advertised for it at my local store and, just like with you, the response was... um... not good. Not good as in if they had posted it here they would have been banned. That is my local area's general opinion of Palladium at that time. Now, not being a stranger to the drama that surrounds Palladium since I've been an on and off customer and fan for multiple decades, I told everyone that Palladium was NOT handling the running of the campaign but rather Ninja Division was and that the prep work was 98% done. Neither turned out to be remotely true unfortunately. For the next year, every time I saw those guys who I tried to recruit, they gave me some light hearted ribbing as to the status of the KS (which was worsening month after month). The atmosphere hasn't changed since they finally released 1/3 of the sculpts 1 year late. There is still alot of dislike about the company and that colors decisions about whether to give them money. The only guy that did go in one the kickstarter didn't bother to try out the game after assembling a few models (and he, like me, is a veteran modeller, not a newbie).

I tried reaching out to possible fans at other local metro stores and found a store with a few folks expressing interest. Unfortunately nothing panned out and one of the three folks that ended up responding sold me his painted minis whereas the other two stopped responding to thread posts about trying out the game. The reasons he gave? No one playing and the minis were a pain to assemble (he had no opinion on the rules since he hadn't played and didn't know about palladium before pledging so no preconceived notions about them either). My own untouched minis are now for sale because I don't have the motivation to put them together either (but I'm keeping the painted ones just in case). Games need a community and in my experience there is none locally, just like with Palladium RPGs. YMMV and there are people out there playing but it seems like they're in the minority. Neither the adepticon or open house tournies could get enough players to fill the tables and that is pretty bleak on a national scale.

My final advice is IF you don't mind waiting for who knows how long to get some variety in gameplay with wave 2 (zentraedi only have one army style currently... horde) and IF you don't mind trying to overcome the large amount of hostility towards palladium and IF you don't mind fixing some mistakes in the ruleset and IF you don't mind putting together miniatures that are easily the most needlessly complicated I've seen for the size in 25 years of minis gaming, you should buy in and give it a shot. If any of those are unacceptable, you should wait and see first if someone else is going to put in the large amount of time and effort to do so in your area.

_________________
Congratulations, Palladium Books. You just threw away a customer of 28 years because of how you handled Robotech Tactics.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:04 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 343
I would echo what evryone has already said. Even getting the models from the basic box (starter set) takes a lot of commitment - this is certainly not pick up and play. What is worse the basic starter set is really not enough for legit forces beyomd intro and small home brew games.

That said I have perservered over the last 6 monhs and now have a lot of stuff to put on the table and yes there is a decent - if average game - hiding away here. However, to get my group to play I have to supply the models, noneelse wants to invest , so long term is a mystery at the moment.

Al this is not being helped by the apparent relectance on the part of PB to engage in anything meaningful with backers or people interested in dipping their toes into this - flash sales and pleas to spend aside. The lack of concrete progress on the much needed wave 2 models - the game needs the variety especially the zents - has put this even furthr back into many games collections. The constant will they produce wave 2 and no they won't debate is very very negative and drags the game don even more.

PB are promising paer mins and the tule book is on sale this weekend so maybe just spend a few doolars for the book and play out some games with the paper minis (or proxies) and see if it is a game for you.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:27 pm
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:30 pm
Posts: 9
I've been a veteran of miniature games for over 25 years, and tend to disagree with most of what I'm seeing here. The game, as many miniatures games are, are not for the inexperienced. You need basic modeling skills to put the figures together. Yes, the fact that the VF-1S head is two halves instead of a single piece is a bit of a pain, and there are times where I have to get the green stuff out to fill gaps, but like I said, this isn't for newbies. The rules I find to be easy to play and easy to teach. It's all based around your command points (resource management), and tactics. Players of the UEDF will have more decisions to make with Valkyrie modes, as this derives what you can and can't do in combat. For a first try, I think they did an awesome job. And if you play the RPG or reverse engineer to the RPG, the character creation/addition section actually works! If you're expecting 40k, or Warmachine, go play those games because this is Robotech and I feel they captured the experience well. A Valkyrie should splat a handful of pods with a missile volley. But, the Zentradi player can strategically place his command pod and or recovery pod and bring them back when he gets the command points to do so.

Now army creation is less than perfect and confusing, and yes the book should include the rules for the cards, but this is their FIRST minis game. Try and cut them some slack or this game will die if it isn't supported. I've waited too long for that.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:14 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I can't speak for the gameplay, as I assembled a dozen models (which were way more work than they needed to be, in my opinion) and stuck it in the closet. If you don't mind assembling dozens of figures at 15-25'ish pieces per unit (with 3-4 attachment points on the sprue; read: a lot of trimming and filing), then go for it.

But as for the future of the game? They've been talking about organized play for 2.5 years. It was going to be Ninja Division, and then it was going to be the Megaversal Ambassadors, but aside from a tournament at Adepticon (with only half of the ticket holders actually playing) and another at the PB Open House this year (not a yearly thing), it seems to be a few folks like Jaymz and other community members taking it upon themselves. So basically, if you expect a tournament or league scene, you may have to start your own.

As for the future of the product line, I think this thread sums it up pretty well;

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=148485

Long story short, we haven't seen substantial work on the wave two models in over 7 months, and Wayne promised us an update on the status of all the figures 3 months ago, and we're still waiting on that as well. They continue to claim that the end of the year or Q1 2016 is the delivery target, but repeatedly state that they're working on trimming the parts count down, meaning they're not even close to production (milling up to two dozen or so molds is going to take a considerable amount of time in and of itself).

If you just want Veritech Fighters, Destroids, and Battlepods, go for it. If you're lusting after a MAC-II, FPA, MPA, Super VT's, and the like, I'd say hold off until wave two has considerable progress made. Like, it's being loaded on a boat at least.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:35 am
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:30 pm
Posts: 9
Sir_Nytehawk357 wrote:
For all those that have the game and played. Is buying the game worth the time and effort. I've Asked my local gaming store if anyone has been playing and the response is not good. I love robotech and the few finished pieces I've seen look amazing. I'm also worried about the games future with all the issues about getting future mini's out. To me I'm getting the same feeling i got with the RIFTS card game towards its end ( sad face). Is there an good videos of game play out there anywhere.


I got the same response from my local game store. They cited cost and that not many people seemed interested in playing. However, checking with my friends, they were VERY excited. In fact we've combined our boxes and bought booster sets. We know a friend who has an online store. He's able to get us the Robotech stuff we want and I have no qualms using them. You may want to consider if your local store is a good measurement for what's good to have and what's not. Sometimes, in my experience, their opinions are based more on personal bias than true interest. I'm planning on playing a few games at the store to see if interest can be generated (after I finish putting setting together and getting them painted up).


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:37 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:50 pm
Posts: 562
A reply to another thread but gives more info to the OP from which to make his/her decision:

xandarr2000 wrote:
I offered to paint my cousin's set up as I do a ton of hobbyist Army Painter for GW products as well as FFG and just Bones minis. I normally thoroughly enjoy painting miniatures but these have been a complete nightmare. I have put together full scale models with tons of fiddly bits but mercy half the time you cannot tell the piece from the sprue itself. On some of the minis the mold lines were almost absent, forcing creative painting to give the effect of the lines or grooves matching. I wanted so bad to support this product but to be frank when I read the kickstarter reports I had my doubts at the process. It felt more like they were trying to do model airplanes and snap-tite models and not Wargaming miniatures. I have to admit when painted up the models do seem decent about scale, and I can appreciate how hard it was to try to pull off the detail they did. But overall, I just do not think I will buy them in their current state. No reason with most of the models they cannot get them down to 5-10 pieces max.


viewtopic.php?f=97&t=147129&p=2885899#p2885899

_________________
Congratulations, Palladium Books. You just threw away a customer of 28 years because of how you handled Robotech Tactics.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:39 pm
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Dacono colorado
Arkangel wrote:
I've been a veteran of miniature games for over 25 years, and tend to disagree with most of what I'm seeing here. The game, as many miniatures games are, are not for the inexperienced. You need basic modeling skills to put the figures together. Yes, the fact that the VF-1S head is two halves instead of a single piece is a bit of a pain, and there are times where I have to get the green stuff out to fill gaps, but like I said, this isn't for newbies. The rules I find to be easy to play and easy to teach. It's all based around your command points (resource management), and tactics. Players of the UEDF will have more decisions to make with Valkyrie modes, as this derives what you can and can't do in combat. For a first try, I think they did an awesome job. And if you play the RPG or reverse engineer to the RPG, the character creation/addition section actually works! If you're expecting 40k, or Warmachine, go play those games because this is Robotech and I feel they captured the experience well. A Valkyrie should splat a handful of pods with a missile volley. But, the Zentradi player can strategically place his command pod and or recovery pod and bring them back when he gets the command points to do so.

Now army creation is less than perfect and confusing, and yes the book should include the rules for the cards, but this is their FIRST minis game. Try and cut them some slack or this game will die if it isn't supported. I've waited too long for that.


I have to disagree with just about this entire post. I really hate doing it because it makes me feel like a troll but here goes. I have also been doing miniature games since the original chainmail game. That should give you a pretty good reference for the timeframe I started back in the Dark 70's and 80's.

Arkangel wrote:
The game, as many miniatures games are, are not for the inexperienced You need basic modeling skills to put the figures together. Yes, the fact that the VF-1S head is two halves instead of a single piece is a bit of a pain, and there are times where I have to get the green stuff out to fill gaps, but like I said, this isn't for newbies


Actually the entire premise behind their initial promise is that they were going to do it THEIR way, which would make the price point more realistic then those other mini based war games, and the set was touted as being for war gamers and collectors a like. MEANING their intent was that johnny gamer could pick up the introduction set and get rolling within a few weeks. Oh not so, as johnny gamer (my cousin for instance and SEVERAL of his friends whom are big gundam fans as well to give an example of the complexity in models they are use to dealing with) complained within weeks. He sent it out to me knowing I have put thousands upon thousands of miniatures together, and even I found it COMPLETELY flawed in both design in execution of the models. So it WAS intended to bring new players into the war gaming genre, and instead the botched hack job on the sprues from the factory to all the other issues with just the box set itself repelled them. So it was fully intended to be for newbies since I would hazard the guess that the Robotech crowd base of long time war gamers is probably surprisingly lower then you would first expect. They knew going into it they would be bringing in new blood.

The rules while I would say being plagued with a few minor flaws are not terrible and errata or two will clear up any issues there. It all comes down to the models Lord help you if you have any kind of tremors (as I do from my multiple sclerosis) trying to cut things from the sprues or connect tiny fins on a veritech or piece a head together (that had no real reason to not be a solid mold). The models themselves are filled with minor flaws, to include air pockets on one of the zentraedi battle pods, which of course led to copious use of green stuff. You are absolutely right in saying these models are not for newbies, you are absolutely wrong in saying that was the intention. From day one of the KS they pushed out how this was a boon for war gamers and robotech fans alike. The models were not up to any kind of quality in comparison to the wait required to get them, the flaws obviously stemming from lack of quality control measures at the factory and the substandard resin they chose feels more like plastic toys you buy in a bag at big lots.

_________________
Chris

"No matter how far you have to go, always take pride in how far you have already gone"


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:44 am
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:30 pm
Posts: 9
Oh I agree they could've done some different things with the models. My first Officers Pod has wire instead of antenna because the ones for it snapped in half when I tried to snip them from the sprue. I had the same problem with one for the recovery pod. Also, while you have more freedom with the Valkyries for posing, the pods I have trouble with getting their feet aligned together if I want them to stand, otherwise it's a flight stand or running pose. With some creative modeling and a big wad of green stuff I modeled one doing a "roundhouse" kick on a flight stand. So I guess the million-dollar question is did the company who pressed the minis have previous experience, or was this their first major run?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:57 am
  

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Palladin

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:35 am
Posts: 8296
Location: somewhere between Tolkeen and Chi-Town
Comment: I'm a Derrik, Derriks don't run.
the stress of dealing with the community over this past 2 yrs is as much a problem as the game pieces. The fact there are no real official supported pages or forums except this one which has it's own issues and tends to be avoided instead of populated with ideas like the other closed pages is a problem.

_________________
Customer Service Director for Northern Gun

"The Devil's among us!
Stay back boy!...This calls for Divine Intervention!
I kick arse for the Lord!"
-Father McGruder- Braindead (a.k.a. Dead Alive)


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:28 am
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:30 pm
Posts: 9
Yeah, I gathered that from both the "Sticky" post about playing nice, and the general venom tossed around (yikes!!). However, I'd be happy to help anyone with modeling questions. For example, on one of my Excaliburs I added the command/control upgrade pack to it, but I also drilled, and pinned and small wire to the head so it looked like a high-gain antenna. There's some little things you can do to make your models stand out or not. However, I feel that you're going to need a) the proper tools (pin vice, wire, green stuff, liquid green stuff, plastic glue, modeling glue, super glue, accelerator, Xacto blades, rotary tool, etc), b) know how you want the model to look, c) take your time cutting the smaller pieces carefully from the sprue, and d) tons of patience.

Also knowing ahead of time that the main box will NOT supply two 300-point (their recommended size) armies, and that you will need to buy "boosters" is some advice that I wish I would've had BEFORE buying (I still would've bought the game, but then I would know what I was dealing with). In addition, it's clear they wrote the rules before making up the cards. I'm not sure I'm keen on the army creation rules. It means having an awful lot of cards available on the table/clipboard. It would've been better to have a listing of each unit and their upgrades, or stats for each unit, or a better way go. But overall, I'm pleased with my investment and can't wait to see Wave 2 (next year... Maybe?)


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:34 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 343
I would agree that to get the most out of these kits you do need a reasonable amount of modelling experience and a full "modelllers kit" does help. However, this was supposed to be a starter set, that was also aimed oat non table top gamers (RPGers) as well.

If you compare GW starters or even Warmachine you are getting detailed models without the need for multiple small part, appalling in box instructions - where was the sprue layouts? - and even a relative novice can get stuff to table in a day or so, Other games like the new HAlo spaceship game or Drop Zone Commander emphasive this even more. Even the venerable Battletech came up with one piece models - even if the detailing was maybe not the best.

I backed the game, I swore at the models while assembling and painting them, but I kinda like then now. The game is quick to learn plays fast -apart from the convulated, unnecessary melee options- and delivers a decent on table experince . However, it does need a lot of commitment and frankly in the cutthroat world of table top gaming there are better options out there.

PS I have you stumped, I have been pushing "toy soldiers" around for over fifty years - I go back to the real dark ages of Airfix and Don Featherstone.


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