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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:18 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
As GMs, when our games run long enough, odds are we'll have players, even those that have natural SDC characters, that can handle quite a bit of nonsense.

Do you balance things when they start getting superior gear? how?

my current campaign is at a point where my players go through a suit of armor almost every fight and are in pretty much constant danger of getting killed. though there are still some challenges that are more simple for them, the combats that I plan are pretty dangerous.

so when this happens, do you turn it up more? larger numbers, more powerful foes? they do a lot of urban combat, so flying isn't totally normal, and fights tend to happen at close range. I guess what I'm really looking for are some ideas. the game has them ferreting out some CS spies in kingsdale.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:42 pm
  

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Explorer

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Comment: I am a perfectionist who is good at nothing. You can imagine my frustration.
I would let them coast for a little while. Let them fight the types of enemys you have been throwing at them, if for no other reason than to let them feel the effects of have more powerfull gear, then before they get too comfortable with it throw the more powerfull advisaries at them. Getting new stuff isn't much fun if you can't feel like a big dog for at least a little while.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:11 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
I don't disagree...but a gunslinger who got his hands on a pair of phase beamers...well, its amusing to me at least. :p

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:45 pm
  

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Regardless of the game I am running, I consistently establish very early that the bad guys are frequently vastly more powerful than the player characters and that a stand up fight will likely end with their gorey deaths. For a certain subset of players, that's incredibly disappointing and they don't play with me for long. For everybody else, it biases their behavior to approach problems from an oblique angle, look for non-violent resolutions, and to never assume that an encounter will be easy or even survivable. I prefer to operate like this because it makes it a lot easier to coax players into complex, multi-layered intrigues and other stories that depend on players choosing not to blast their way out.

So, in answer to your question, I don't often try to scale the combat to the player characters. Any combat they get into is appropriate to the situation. And if they've misjudged that situation, it may end badly for them. I've actually had very few TPKs employing these methods, so I am inclined to recommend them.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:48 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:05 pm
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Location: Memphis, TN
I find that it takes care of itself.

As the PCs get more powerful, they pursue more challenging goals.

--flatline

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I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:02 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
flatline, you'd be surprised at the lack of planning and ambition at the gaming table here and there.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:12 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:05 pm
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Location: Memphis, TN
Alrik Vas wrote:
flatline, you'd be surprised at the lack of planning and ambition at the gaming table here and there.


Sorry, I come from a culture of power gamers. I forget that for some groups, that isn't the normal mindset.

--flatline

_________________
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:32 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
I come from the same, but my players just don't have the same ruthless planning.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:29 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:41 pm
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Location: Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada.
Comment: Just an old dude Gamer (GM and Player) who had the honor of gaming with several great groups of folks over the years.
The current situation as listed seems to be a campaign/adventure(s) set in Kingsdale doing counter-espionage in an urban setting with what sounds like a jump-into-action (rather than planning) / hack-n-slash style of approach.

Primary Difficulties: constant near death and destroyed gear/armor.

DAMAGE SURVIVABILITY:

Layered MDC:
- Innate MDC: Natural (D-Bee, Mutant, variant/D-Bee human), Artificial Constant (Gene-Splicers, Bio-Wizardry, Mutant/Super Powers), Artificial Temporary (Various spells, Tattoos of Strength/Yakuza Tattoo W8, Various Body Hardening Mystic Martial Arts W8:Japan - see Shikome Kido-Mi dragon MMA max 3 with undefined corruption penalties - personally: 1 alignment shift & 1 recurring enemy/organization per MMA seems about right P to S to UnP to Ab to An to M to D or whatever). Rare/exclusive stuff such as Yakuza is fairly easy to justify as simply a randomly rifted Yakuza Tattoo-ist who has set up shop, joined another organization, or started his own organization. If not on the same continent (or even sure if same dimension for that matter) then not exactly betraying his old organization.
-- Which may benefit from Rapid In-Combat Healing as well as Between Combat Healing.
- MDC Clothing (Wearable under armor): There are many, many sources of this from obscure natural materials (tree-hugging hippie ones) to Triax to homemade (W19 Australia) to specialized Merc ones (NG Stalker Suit - Merc Ops p87).
- The MDC Armor Itself: Most possible effective MDC is generally ideal (balanced against mobility issues). TW Armor Mods can make a huge difference (RMB, BoM, CW, etc): Impervious to Energy, Invulnerability (BoM), etc.
- MDC Force Fields: TW Armor Mod Armor of Ithan/etc, Tech FFs - Naruni (Mercenaries)/etc, Innate FFs - Create Force Field Major Super Ability/etc (D4:Skraypers), Psionic FFs (Psychic Body Field, TK Force Field, etc), Other Magic FFs (various).
- Augmentation Via Auras: Various abilities or auras may extend special benefits to worn armors/FFs as well (Impervious to damage types, etc).
- Autododging: Various degrees of: HTH Commando/Aikido/Kendo, Superhuman Agility (Merc Adventures Combat Magic/possibly as TW Mod). Enhanced autodoge abilities may allow to be used versus ambush/surprise/attacks from behind (Juicers/Crazies/Intuitive Combat/Certain Innate Radar Abilties/etc).
- Stealth/Concealment: Mundane (Prowl), Tech (thermal/infrared blocking armors/camouflage/etc), Magic (TW Mod/Invis Superior/etc), Psionic (Psionic Invisibility/etc).

-----

If it wasn't for the current relevant situation I would almost say put them into adventure/campaign scenarios where they have to work outside of their current hack-n-slash comfort zone so they can work on tactics from another perspective.
- Example: (1st) Guarding ground based-convoys often in conjunction with some wasteoid NPC guards can often achieve this. (2nd) This can then scale up to figuring out how to guard and protect a remote town of people/D-Bees (particularly if they cannot relocate elsewhere: issues of nutrition/environment/innate HF/etc). Innovating ways of creating defenses, managing resources, innovating uses for utility abilities (Ironwood, earth elementals, Golems, etc), training locals to defend/arm themselves, and so forth. (3rd) How well they succeeded in the various convoy duties may determine how many experienced wasteoid NPC guards/etc survive to become relevant/key NPC contacts/allies in the town to be defended.

-----

Wrote an article at one point about power scale and encounter difficulties. Might provide some inspiration.
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129640

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Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:43 pm
  

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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:54 pm
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There's always a bigger fish

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:06 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
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Location: Right behind you.
Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
worry not, these guys know they aren't the biggest fish. they never assume they are, but they have a habit of going, "well, whatever, lets just attack", not collectively, but someone always jumps the gun and suddenly everyone is shooting...

they know that if they mess with the wrong crowd they might die, but they're also nearing the point where they are the crowd others don't want to mess with.

and Random, they use just about all that. sometimes fights are too easy, but I'm not into scaling it up just so they'll have a repair bill.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:53 pm
  

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I have two ideas:

1: Divide and Conquer. If the group has this habit, see if splitting them up does anything to change it.

2: Its a little more drastic, but make an example of someone. IE kill one of the characters. If they actually have to face that fact that their characters won't survive everything, they might shape up their act.

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--- author of "All Quiet on the Western.....What?" Rifter 84.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:02 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
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Location: Right behind you.
Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
actually death doesn't really deter these guys. they've accidentally killed each other before (N20 on a grenade with hijinks), one had their skull crushed by a monster brodkill and another was stabbed in the forehead with a vibro-knife while out of their armor.

they just like to live dangerously, it seems.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:22 am
  

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Sounds like they want a game that is a running fight. It's not my style but it you seem to be giving it to them. And if they're not deterred by death, I don't think you need to concern yourself too much with scaling the opposition. If you keep it fresh and lively, they'll probably be happy.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:08 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
not altogether inaccurate, I just wish they'd come prepared with spare characters, haha.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:47 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:05 pm
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Location: Memphis, TN
Alrik Vas wrote:
not altogether inaccurate, I just wish they'd come prepared with spare characters, haha.


We were "encouraged" to have 3 characters ready to go at the start of a campaign. We had lots of inter-party conflict at the beginning of a campaign, but once we got past a session or two, it settled down as the party gelled.

--flatline

_________________
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:30 am
  

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Alrik Vas wrote:
I just wish they'd come prepared with spare characters, haha.

Generate a stack of black-market characters. Anytime somebody gets their character killed without a backup, hand one over. They will either come prepared or the tone of the game will shift to be more conspiratorial. It's a win-win in my book. Alternately, you could generate a stack of floopers and shapers. That would take the tone of your game in a much different direction! :D

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:56 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
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Location: Right behind you.
Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
Well, currently there's A LOT of conspiracy going on, actually. Last game there was no combat and not much dice rolling. They weren't bored, but some people got a little frustrated trying to piece things together.

The still haven't found the mole in kingsdale's intelligence community, but they have exposed the CS operator team and are trying to flush them out of hiding. They put themselves in the bed of conspiracy when they took the job from NE to help them profit off the war haha...can't blame me for that.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:38 pm
  

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Floopers and shapers it is then! :P

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:56 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:20 pm
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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
Bill wrote:
Floopers and shapers it is then! :P


/facepalm

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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