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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:46 pm
  

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Palladin

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So I know the book says on page 143 that multiple OCCs or dual classes are not an option...

But later on (page 168, right column) in the 'Characters from other Palladium Games' section, there appears to be a contradiction to this:

Quote:
Robot & Power Armor pilots, should they survive their initial arrival, may be able to adapt to becoming:
1) a Dreadguard wearing Host Armor
2) an Outrider piloting a War Mount

Per page 13 (crossing dimensions) the Robot/PA pilots would probably have no incentive to make such a change until they unsealed their environmental armor, at which point they'd better unsuit quick before it kills them. I'm thinking a friendly Technojacker would be incredibly useful for helping Robots/PAs during that transition period since they can merge with it prior to unsealing the environmental so that they have as much time as they like to get out, and then walk the suit/bot to a safe distance (or perhaps let the Technojacker use it)

Since Dreadguard and Outrider are OCCs (pages 149 and 151) this conveys the impression that at least these two may be exceptions to the no-multiple-OCCs rule. Thoughts on this?

It seems to make sense since they appear to be two of the less invasion classes. I can totally see why things like Biotics, Saints, Skarecrows and Skinjobs would be unfriendly to multi-classing, since they all transform the human into something different, becoming all MDC and special powers and weird and stuff.

However, the Archangels, Packmasters, Roughnecks and perhaps Technojackers don't seem like the above 4, they seem more like the Dreadguard and Outrider in that they merely interact with gear rather than become it.

Since you have to be naturally plague-immune to be a Technojacker, it's unlikely most immigrants could simply switch to that though. Perhaps GMs could mandate a 1in100 percentile roll to see if someone has what it takes. Otherwise, the Arch/Pack/Rough options added to Dread/Out would bring the total options to 5, I think.

I also don't think there would be any issue with changing from one of the five skill-based classes (Archangel/Dreadguard/Outrider/Packmaster/Roughneck) to a Biotic because... well, they get memory-wiped so you would just lose all your old OCC skills, but could presumably keep playing a character with the same look and baseline attributes. I expect the Biotic process would prevent you from using a Host Armor or other stuff though, right?

Page 143's reasoning for no multiple classes is that characters are 'genetically modified', but I think that only covers the Biot/Saint/Scare/Skin classes which I explained previously I think this may have been more focused on, so that you don't have some crazy guy trying to be all 4 at once. I can also see how any of these 4 processes would interfere with becoming any of the other gear-based classes since it probably interferes with using Host Armor.

It's also clear that someone can not simultaneously be a Technojacker or one of these classes since they are mutually exclusive, the nanobots preventing symbiosis with the armor and stuff.

I do wonder though... if a Technojacker was sent to Nightbane (the barrier around that dimension would destroy his nanobots) and then came back, if they would somehow get altered nanobots (their body altering the normal ones in the environment?) or if they would lose their immunity (and all Technojacker powers, just keeping the skils) and thus be able to switch to one of the other classes.

The reasons against switching, beyond genetic restrictions, seem merely to be attitude-based ones, meaning most people would not want to switch, not that it's impossible, save for the genetic4.

I also don't think there would be any issue with changing from one of the five skill-based classes (Archangel/Dreadguard/Outrider/Packmaster/Roughneck) to a Biotic because... well, they get memory-wiped so you would just lose all your old OCC skills, but could presumably keep playing a character with the same look and baseline attributes.

I expect the Biotic process would prevent you from using a Host Armor or other stuff though, right? So there probably isn't any doing of that in reverse. Biotics are probably too feral to learn another OCC anyway. If Splicers utilized RCC classification, it would be a prime candidate for it.

I think Saints, Scarecrows or Skinjobs (three other RCCish things) might be prevented from becoming a Biotic though because they are already transformed?

Although these 4 RCCish classes may not be able to become the 5 other skill-based OCCs due to inability to use Host Armor or similar, I do wonder if they could switch to other OCCs when leaving the Splicers dimension. The main impediment would be using technology, since they carry the infectious nanobots with them. But that would still leave a lot of non-tech classes open. Biotic Saloon Girl perhaps? Skinjob Fleshsculptor?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:51 am
  

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Hero

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Most of the bio-tech used by the various OCCs is specifically tailored to a specific character... using their genetic code as part of the process.

Remember, we are talking about bonding two living organisms together... which means they are going to need to be genetically compatible on some level. For much of the generic bio-tech, it is usually based on a universal code... not unlike Blood Type O which in theory can be accepted by anyone in need of a blood transfusion.

More complex bio-tech creations, like Host Armor and many War Mounts will need to be more closely tailored to a given user. In the case of Outriders and their ability to bond with almost any mount... that could also be explained with those selected for the OCC being sort of like universal acceptors (those with blood type AB... who can accept nearly any blood type without too many side effects). True, each has their preferred mount and rarely consider using a different one... but in the heat of battle, they can adapt as the situation needs. Host Armors on the other hand, are intended to be used by a specific individual... to the point where they can't be used by anyone except that specific person.

Now, does this mean that an Archangel can't decide to become a Dreadguard? No, but it does mean that changing over will require time to grow a Host Armor specifically for him... and it also means that all the time and resources that went into training him as an Archangel (not to mention growing him a custom Wingpack and Living Armor) was more or less wasted. Additionally, it is also probable that many of the Resistance get their OCCs because of careful screening that determines which OCC they are most likely to excel at (and least likely to reject to become something else). Many likely feel that they were born to be exactly the OCC they have and wouldn't dream of being anything else.

So while it is theoretically possible for a character with one of the more skill based OCCs to change to a different one... it is rarely done (both because of the resources already spent in making them what they are and because most are actually what they want to be). True, there are some OCCs (like the Biotic) that it is unlikely anyone wanted to be... and others (like the Scarecrow) that they didn't fully understand what they were becoming until it was too late... but these are likely the minority (I find it hard to believe that any given House has enough criminals or "defective" individuals to have a huge army of Biotics... though it is possible some of the more ruthless Houses have "recruitment" or conscription drives to fill out the ranks).

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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:47 am
  

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Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
Due to personal preference, I don't allow any creatures from other games. Splicers is dimensionally isolated.

So, while I don't necessarily have anything to contribute to this conversation, I will be watching this thread with interest.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:52 am
  

Palladin

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regarding biotic numbers, bear in mind that:

1) everyone is always under a lot of stress because their lives are constantly threatened, even in the relative safety of their havens.
2) biotic conversion is also the punishment for many *minor* crimes, not just big things like murder.
3) "mentally disturbed" quite possibly includes PTSD, for example. the sample great house has 30% "non-combatants", and only 10% "other OCCs" (which may also be non-combatants), so you can expect a fairly high rate of related problems.

and after all that, only 2% of the barren marsh great house are biotics - frankly, i think it's kept artificially low by a high attrition rate. but the presence of large numbers of biotics really does make sense, imo.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:47 pm
  

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Knight

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Multi classing I think would be pretty rare in splicers mainly due to lack of resources. Even rich houses are still living pretty day to day so while somebody could be an outrider/packmaster arch angle it is unlikely a great house is going to sink that many resources into a single point of failure. That is putting a lot of time and energy on stuff that cannot all be used at the same time by a single person.

That is why in a lot of the OCC if you lose your host armor then you are SOL and have to make due with lesser stuff in the future simply because they don't dare waste expensive hard to make armor on the "wasteful".

Biotics are pretty common as its a way to turn criminals or those who are physically/mentally impaired into a useful expendable combat unit. Again even a rich house cannot afford to waste resources and energy on dead weight. You either perform duties required of you or you are turned into something that can. A lot of splicers can be condensed down to the saying "needs must when the devil drives".


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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:30 pm
  

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Palladin

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One major limitation is I think someone can only be bonded to one Host Armor at a time.

I think I understand now what they meant about genetic modifications, turns out the Dreadguard ARE genetically modified, just in a less obvious way.

Although you can be bonded to a new Host Armor if the old one is destroyed, I think that involves genetically modifying the person to accept the new armor (just like you modify the armor to accept the person) so someone couldn't bond to 2 host armors at once and be Gardener-by-Day/Dreadguard-by-Knight...

But the thing is... if your armor gets destroyed, you have to build up its Bio-E from scratch, and since that's level-based, it would be easier to do that by restarting at level 1 in a different class. A lot of people might get so depressed about losing their Host Armor that they would leave their current clan in shame and go join some other one and start a new career.

Another issue is things besides Host Armor. Things like Living Armor do not appear to be as touchy (1-person-only) we can see a lot of people have both Host Armor AND a back-up living armor. So for classes like the Houndmaster (or wait... I'm thinking Dead Reign... whatever the Splicers guy is... PACKmaster) who just use Living Armor, it seems like this could be compatible with dual-classing.

I'm not sure about the Wing things that the Archangels use though. Do they operate more like Living or more like Host?

Another interesting thing which suggests OCC-changing in spite of the forbiddence... page 107 gives the example of Ralph (that Bellamy fellow who gives the world overview on page 16). He was initially a Roughneck and then changed to become a Dreadguard. So it seems to me like you can at least multiple-OCC change from Roughneck to Dreadguard, the Red paints that pic. Although... his stats on page 68 only list the Dreadguard OCC and not Roughnough... but it wouldn't be the first time an NPC doesn't list EVERYTHING about them (Dragons and Gods omitting Thoth being a Stone Master, Wormwood omitting Lazarus' knowledge of the Mental Blast spell from FoM)

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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:21 pm
  

Palladin

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i'd say that for the roughneck to dreadguard conversion, it's more along the lines of "if you distinguish yourself on the way to becoming a roughneck (which process will include actual combat before you're experienced enough to fully earn the OCC), they bump your training to instead making you a dreadguard". it's not so much that he was a roughneck, then changed OCCs to a dreadguard. rather, he was a roughneck in training, and impressed his superiors enough to have his training upgraded.

anyways, on to other parts: i think you're reading it wrong. there is no limitation on a character having only one host armour bound to them (other than practical limits, such as feeding them all, and a general lack of available resources; if two people have host armours, both can be used at the same time. if one person has two host armours, only one is ever being used at the time, the other is wasted). what is limited is that a host armour can only be bound to one person... not the other way around.

dreadguards are very likely not modified at all. in the core book, saints, scarecrows, skinjobs, biotics, and packmasters are modified (packmasters of course being the least modified of all those by a significant margin; they have bio-comms and that's it, and are considered to be essentially unmodified by most - just don't forget you have bio-comms in or out of armour ^^). the resistance takes a very dim view on human modification as a rule, and dreadguards are the elite forces.

generally speaking, with each OCC in addition to the training involved there is a bunch of gear as well. the resistance might be able to afford more training for special cases, but are unlikely to offer more gear to someone without having them be the appropriate OCC in the first place, or at least, not gear that can't be temporarily assigned and then reassigned elsewhere if needed.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:38 am
  

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Hero

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Think of Roughnecks as the enlisted men in the army while the Dreadguard are the officers. With the right training, one can start their career as an Officer/Dreadguard... or one can work their way up through the ranks starting as a Roughneck and then becoming a Dreadguard.

Also, with Ralph, I think we are confusing his background with his actual stats. His background had him starting off in the ranks of the Roughnecks, but as play begins he had just been inducted into the Ranks of the Dreadguard as a 1st level Dreadguard. It's like saying one was in the Army before becoming a Cop... yes, you got a lot of your training from the one profession that helps you with the second, but it doesn't exactly mean you are a dual-class character. In Ralph's case, he has all the stats and skills of a Dreadguard, but got his training (learned those skills) from his time with the Roughnecks as opposed to other Dreadguards who are taught in special academies (the equivalent of West Point) or with personal trainers (not unlike nobles who became knights or samurai). Dreadguards are, in many ways, the upper class of Splicer civilization and while most are groomed for their lofty position from the start, it is possible that others can earn a position in their ranks. Ralph is just from the latter group rather than the former.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:16 pm
  

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Palladin

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Shark_Force wrote:
there is no limitation on a character having only one host armour bound to them

what is limited is that a host armour can only be bound to one person... not the other way around.

dreadguards are very likely not modified at all


Although it is clear that multiple Host Armors can be bound to a person, the examples of this happening are when the original is destroyed. My views come from this text:

page 151 wrote:
The Dreadguard is genetically bonded to one specific Host Armor (this is the only Host Armor he can operate)

If the Dreadguard's Host Armor is destroyed, another will be bonded to him

page 153 wrote:
The Outrider is genetically bonded to one specific Host Armor (this is the only Host Armor he can operate).

page 156 wrote:
The Roughneck is genetically bonded to one specific Host Armor (this is the only Host Armor he can operate).

If the Roughneck's Host Armor is destroyed/slain..another Host Armor may be bonded to him


It seems from the initial statements that the bonding is actually a 2-way process. The Armor is bound to the person so that only that person can use the armor (Proto-Armor is similar but can be used frozen by blood relatives) and the person is bound to the armor so that it is the only Host Armor which he can use.

So apparently these statements
page 143 wrote:
"Splicer characters are genetically modified" .. "committed to whatever biologically engineered warrior they have become"
would apply to Dreadknights, Outriders and Roughnecks, since they are genetically bonded to an armor (which is a genetic modification).

I mean.. if it WERE possible to simultaneously own several different suits, even though that would not be a normal thing, I think we would see it at least among Warlords, since they would have the wealth and power to stockpile and store spare suits and there would be incentive to create those backups for them. At least one NPC would own a pair of Host Armors... but is there one who does?

The initial statements talk about people being bound to the armor, one specific one, the ONLY one, so this sounds like they could not be simultaneously bound to 2 suits of armor.

Although 2 suits might be bound to him... that would only be half of the requirements. When people are bound to Host Armor they are genetically modified, so you could only be genetically modified to operate 1 suit, which would prevent using the other.

So basically you would have to return-to-base and get an Engineer (or whoever it is that does the genetic modification on humans that lets them use Host Armor) and get them to rewrite your genes any time you got a new suit or wanted to switch back to an old suit.

Although we know (via Host Armor-replacement) that a human can be modified multiple times to suit new armors throughout their lifetimes, I expect armors are bound-for-life and could not be rewritten if their human died. I guess those suits are probably just recycled, like most Homunculi.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:52 pm
  

Palladin

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if you had 2 suits of armour, you'd have to spend double the amount of time feeding it. not only is that wasteful in resources, since you can only wear one at a time, it's wasteful in time, because now you need to spend all that time feeding both of them, and have little time to actually use either of them.

this is particularly worse for someone like a warlord, who has additional demands on their time. simply put, it isn't a good idea for multiple reasons for anyone to get multiple host armours. no mention is made of modifying the pilot, so more likely it's simply an acknowledgement that you won't get another one assigned to you while your old one is intact; that is, you can't just borrow one from another dreadguard. (if multiple layouts are desired, i would expect rather to have extra living armour suits, as those have much easier feeding requirements... in fact, that's the only reason i could see a dreadguard even *having* an improved living armour of any sort at all, is so that they can have two different available equipment layouts. personally, i'd actually make the living armour the heavy combat option if possible, considering the regeneration rate on living body armour....


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:16 am
  

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Palladin

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Does feeding necessarily take time though? If it was a solar-powered armor couldn't you just leave it out in a place that gets a lot of sunlight, or a room lit by artificial light, hassle-free?

Same with heat-fed armor, couldn't one just leave them near a hot spring or volcano or someplace that stays warm?

I do see your point about the other kinds who have mouths though (well, the parasite doesn't, but it needs to eat your poop and skin) since it seems like they require you to put them on to be able to chew their food.

I think it does mention modifying the pilot, it says the pilot is genetically bound to the armor, and can use only that armor. Not 'only this armor and any other armor they might bond to simultaneously' or 'a pilot can only use suits of armor bound to him' but emphasizes the 'only one'. So I think it is a mutual meant-to-be.

I think the pilot needs to get genetically re-modified to 'divorce' his old armor and 'marry' a replacement suit, basically. I don't know how long that takes though or what it entails. There should be some decent cost to prevent someone flip-flopping between a pair of suits with extreme ease.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:21 am
  

Palladin

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supposing it does take genetic modification to make you able to accept an armour. what's to keep them from making two armours, each keyed to your new modified genetic information?

you can only use that one armour because nobody gets more than one. nobody needs more than one, and frankly, there is very little reason to even *want* more than one in the first place.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:59 pm
  

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Knight

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Think of it from a limited resource perspective. Would you be giving one person multiple sets of host armor at the same time knowning once bonded nobody else can use that armor and they can only ever use one at a time. Is it better to have one guy with an extra set of host armor in mothballs or two people wearing host armor active at the same time.

We know that it is possible if you lose host armor to get another set but unless you are a dreadguard or some rare flavor like a swarm master or gardener if you lose your armor you are not getting another host armor to replace it. Its not that you are not capable of using it again its just that they lack the resources to give another set to somebody who has proven "wasteful" of a precious resource.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:27 pm
  

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Palladin

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Shark_Force wrote:
supposing it does take genetic modification to make you able to accept an armour. what's to keep them from making two armours, each keyed to your new modified genetic information?

Every armor would be a unique snowflake, so you could only modify yourself to accept 1, presumably no perfect-cloning tech exists.

Shark_Force wrote:
nobody gets more than one. nobody needs more than one, and frankly, there is very little reason to even *want* more than one in the first place.

If it was possible to do, some wealthy powerful warlord WOULD get more than one. There is definitely a reason to want more than one, such as versatility. One could be a bruiser for dominating HtH, another could be a flier, another could be a Gardener, etc. Need is irrelevant when there is greed.

kaid wrote:
Think of it from a limited resource perspective. Would you be giving one person multiple sets of host armor at the same time knowning once bonded nobody else can use that armor and they can only ever use one at a time.


Not often, no, but if I was a Warlord I might do that for myself and any close family or friends. If someone nukes your armor with bomb-spores when you are passing time with your spouse, having a backup would make a lot of sense.

It definitely would not be a good tactic to make a habit of doing this en-masse when you can spread them among more people to allow more simultaneous use, but there WOULD be rare cases of it happening if it were possible.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:38 pm
  

Palladin

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they do have backups. it's called living armour. the great majority of the enhancements available to host armour can be used on living armour. you need a flying version? here's a wingpack you can use - when you're done with it, return it to stores and someone else can use it.

if a warlord wants a backup suit, he can get one - but it's much cheaper and easier to use something other than a host armour for that.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:03 pm
  

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True, but there are some things that you may not be able to put on a wing pack or a living armor. Inevitably the flexibility allowed by Host Armor, whatever incentivizes its use at all to begin with, would create incentive to own two different ones. Even if it was just for bragging rights, someone is going to do it, if it was possible.

Unless an NPC has, I figure we take the -one armor- bonding policy literally and make it 1-at-a-time with an undefined transition process.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:56 pm
  

Palladin

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why would you have two just for show? like i said, there is evidently some degree of maintenance required for any host armour. the main advantage it offers over living armour is that you can feed it stuff which is available almost anywhere, rather than having to bathe it in a special nutrient pool (well, that and the other benefits from metabolism of course). you can take a host armour on a four month patrol. you can take a living armour on a one week patrol.

furthermore, i don't see the resistance as being particularly impressed by material wealth. the resistance is something like 60% or more soldiers. i don't see them as being particularly impressed that you have two host armours. i expect that if you want to impress them, you're probably better off showing off your combat skills, not flaunting how you waste resources that could be put to better use elsewhere.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:16 am
  

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Lol. I don't think I've ever ready anything that was so over thought here on the boards (with the exception of how does paired weapons work).

The answer is very very simple. Robot/PA pilots can become Dreadguard/Warmount pilots because they are already used to piloting/using the robot/pa as an extension of themselves. What happens when they come to the Spliciverse (in the simplest of terms) is that they swap out a mechanical suit for a biological suit. Pilot Robot/Pa and Robot/PA combat (imo) is the same skill as Pilot Host Armor/Warmount and Host Armor/Warmount combat. The difference is mechanical vs biological.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:09 pm
  

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Shark_Force wrote:
why would you have two just for show?
Maybe the same reason Bruce Wayne owns so many cars and bikes? It can be a sign of affluence, of your versatility, of you being prepared, having a backup plan.

I'm not saying most Warlords would do this, but inevitably at least a couple would probably do it.

Shark_Force wrote:
there is evidently some degree of maintenance required for any host armour. the main advantage it offers over living armour is that you can feed it stuff which is available almost anywhere, rather than having to bathe it in a special nutrient pool (well, that and the other benefits from metabolism of course).

True, some armors require more maintenance than others (like it being harder to find meat than to find sunlight or heat, in most cases) so it would be easy to own a dozen low-maintenance Host Armors (just find a sunny garden for light or a hot spring for heat) but for anything that needs to chew food, that would be high-maintenance and you wouldn't wan to own more than one.

Shark_Force wrote:
i don't see the resistance as being particularly impressed by material wealth. the resistance is something like 60% or more soldiers. i don't see them as being particularly impressed that you have two host armours. i expect that if you want to impress them, you're probably better off showing off your combat skills, not flaunting how you waste resources that could be put to better use elsewhere.

Agreed, which is why I expect the majority of Warlords are pretty utilitarian and humble about not wasting resources, to send a good impression to their troops. But there's got to be some stuck-up Warlord out there who would get at least 1 extra armor.

They might have a 'peacetime' armor which they use to grow food, lots of armor to counteract assassins, etc. Then a 'combat' armor which is maxed out with weapons when they know they will be going on the offensive.

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:
I don't think I've ever ready anything that was so over thought

Robot/PA pilots can become Dreadguard/Warmount pilots because they are already used to piloting/using the robot/pa as an extension of themselves.

What happens when they come to the Spliciverse (in the simplest of terms) is that they swap out a mechanical suit for a biological suit.

Pilot Robot/Pa and Robot/PA combat (imo) is the same skill as Pilot Host Armor/Warmount and Host Armor/Warmount combat. The difference is mechanical vs biological.

It's being thoroughly (not over) thought out because the book discusses Robot/PA pilots (skills attained from a previous OCC) becoming Dreadguard/Outrider, a new OCC. Yet OCC changes are something we're told is not to be done. I'm using the Robot/PA as evidence that this is merely a roleplaying restriction than blatent out-ruling.

No, they are not the same skills, they are different skills.

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Last edited by Tor on Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:23 pm
  

Palladin

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bruce wayne exists in a world where ostentatious displays of wealth are a show of power.

furthermore, as a warlord i feel like any need to defend against assassins would largely coincide almost exactly with the kinds of mods useful for coping with the machine in battle. i don't envision splicers battles involving much, if any, standing battles. if those sorts of battles happen, there is pretty much one inevitable outcome; the machine has millions upon millions of robots in storage, and is still constantly manufacturing new ones, and doesn't particularly care if you destroy a bunch of robots because they can just be recycled anyways.

rather, i expect that in the field, a warlord will want to have good senses, extremely fast reflexes, and high damage output that will allow him to destroy an enemy quickly before they can call in help, and then disappear entirely. those same excellent senses, swiftness, and firepower advantages will be of great use against an assassin as well.

furthermore, while you may argue that we don't have any sample NPCs that use multiple host armours is proof that it's not possible, i would point out that we really only have *one* full sample NPC in the entire book, period. and he isn't a warlord. we also have 4 other NPCs who frankly have shorter writeups than the average weapon in the game. there is more written information about bio-e vents than there is about any one of them, and there's more game mechanic information about bio-e vents than there is about all of those other NPCs combined.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:52 pm
  

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Hero

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Chances are that the Warlord who feels he is entitled to a second Host Armor "just for show" is soon to be replaced by the Dreadguard Lieutenants who feel he is wasting valuable resources for no practical gain. Remember, in nearly all Great Houses, Warlords who are seen as incompetent, weak or otherwise unfit to rule are replaced through challenges by others... and someone who wastes the valuable resource that creating a Host Armor takes, is very likely going to be seen as someone unfit to rule a Great House.

Think of it like the resource drives of both World Wars... where common people made due without a lot of items so that the soldiers fighting in the war could have the resources they needed. Many found hoarding such resources were prosecuted by the law... which during war time can be quite severe. There was even a lot of propaganda to the effect that it was one's patriotic duty to make due with out these items so that the soldiers fighting in the war could have the items they needed to fight that war.

The same can be said for the Resistance in Splicers... hoarding resources that can be used by others to fight against the machine could be seen as an almost treasonous act. Indulging in a vain display of power by creating a second Host Armor that is unlikely to actually be used while another soldier has to go without is a severe waste of resources... one that can lead to incalculable losses. Such vanity is not likely to be seen in a positive light... and a Warlord who was so vain would likely see a large number of challenges to his right to rule the House.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:05 pm
  

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Shark_Force wrote:
while you may argue that we don't have any sample NPCs that use multiple host armours is proof that it's not possible
While I have the freedom to do so, I have not actually made that argument, I just think unless we see that, there is nothing to suggest being bonded to more than 1 at a time is possible.

The proof it's not possible is because it says you are genetically bonded to a single armor, one only.

Razorwing wrote:
Chances are that the Warlord who feels he is entitled to a second Host Armor "just for show" is soon to be replaced by the Dreadguard Lieutenants who feel he is wasting valuable resources for no practical gain.

For the most part, yes. Most societies that have survved would not tolerate. Inevitably some oddity is going to manage it though, one with a lot of friends.

There are other reasons besides show, anyway. Unless you buy healing upgrades, many host armors regenerate their MDC pretty slowly, so having a spare would let you set aside a heavily-damaged armor and let it heal itself while you pilot a fresh suit in the interim.

If someone wants to switch to a fresh Host Armor so they can immediately set out on another long-term campaign, I doubt they would be shamed for that.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:15 pm
  

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if you have the resources and power for a second host armour, it's likely you also have the resources and power to get your main host armour regeneration (i would expect that one of the perks attached to being a warlord is that in addition to any bio-e you may have been awarded on the way to becoming warlord, you are also much more likely to be given further bio-e rewards). which means, rather than having a pile of resources sitting in your home 95% of the time or more, your main host armour is now more useful in the field.

alternately, as i've already said several times, you can just make use of your living armour, which can still be quite effective and which generally speaking has almost miraculous healing times.

as yet another possibility, and quite likely even more resource-efficient, you can just buy yourself a stockpile of slap patches. at 100 credits each, they cost very little and used in quantity can quickly heal a host armour from barely alive to full MDC in short order. (precisely how quickly is a bit unclear; nothing says you can't apply more than one at a time, so arguably if you pop a bunch of them just before a fight starts you may be able to get full armour regeneration every round for several rounds... although, if you're expecting to face that much firepower you really should be picking your fights better).


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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:08 am
  

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People are in theory supposed to have the Bio-E on their armor limited by experience and endurance, so any BioE spent buying higher regen capabilities is energy not spent on weapons.

Most warlords probably have a Saint working for them who could rapidly heal their armor, of course...

But it is nice to have a failsafe in case a Saint accidentally dies (even if people do not target them, sometimes the fog of war obscures a target until its too late) or if they abandon you.

The living armor is definitely the more common alternative. But as people have pointed out, it has a limited duration of use if you want to use it for any lengthly missions, since you need to re-energize it in a nutrient bath.

I mean heck... enemy forces might actually DESTROY the nutrient baths... if you were forced to abandon base or cut off from returning, some Warlords might prefer to be in a Host Armor in case that happens.

Not sure how much a Slap Patch weighs, I wonder how many could be carried without impeding combat performance. A man`s palm is a moderate surface area but wafer-thin probably means very many could be carried. Some guidelines (like if you want to carry a bag full of them for your allies) would be good.

Considering each patch will give you an average of 7 MDC per melee for 5 melees, that`s 35 MDC per patch, pretty sweet. Ugh... they are not even 1-time use, 3x per day means 105 MDC per patch per DAY on average...

Those things are far too cheap IMO... must be very easy to produce, market must be flooded with them. I would buy dozens of them.

Letting these work may take less time than getting out of 1 suit and into a new suit, for all I know. Do not recall if it said how long it takes to suit up and suit down.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:53 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Tor wrote:
People are in theory supposed to have the Bio-E on their armor limited by experience and endurance, so any BioE spent buying higher regen capabilities is energy not spent on weapons.

Most warlords probably have a Saint working for them who could rapidly heal their armor, of course...

But it is nice to have a failsafe in case a Saint accidentally dies (even if people do not target them, sometimes the fog of war obscures a target until its too late) or if they abandon you.

The living armor is definitely the more common alternative. But as people have pointed out, it has a limited duration of use if you want to use it for any lengthly missions, since you need to re-energize it in a nutrient bath.

I mean heck... enemy forces might actually DESTROY the nutrient baths... if you were forced to abandon base or cut off from returning, some Warlords might prefer to be in a Host Armor in case that happens.

Not sure how much a Slap Patch weighs, I wonder how many could be carried without impeding combat performance. A man`s palm is a moderate surface area but wafer-thin probably means very many could be carried. Some guidelines (like if you want to carry a bag full of them for your allies) would be good.

Considering each patch will give you an average of 7 MDC per melee for 5 melees, that`s 35 MDC per patch, pretty sweet. Ugh... they are not even 1-time use, 3x per day means 105 MDC per patch per DAY on average...

Those things are far too cheap IMO... must be very easy to produce, market must be flooded with them. I would buy dozens of them.

Letting these work may take less time than getting out of 1 suit and into a new suit, for all I know. Do not recall if it said how long it takes to suit up and suit down.

The amount of BIO-E is the amount of strain that the person can stand (supposedly) which means that if you lost your armor, and if there was a valid reason to get you an identical replacement, you could get one (that whole 'librarian/engineer gift' thing) I honestly see that as being far more likely (in its own unlikeliness) than anyone being allowed to bond two suits.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:11 am
  

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Probably, yeah. The people who I think could get 2 suits (if it's even possible) would be those with the authority to boss around the Librarians and Engineers, IE some Warlords.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:28 pm
  

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Hero

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The whole dual class thing is very poorly thought out. There should never be dual classing in the game, ever. The writers that say you cant keep making npcs that are dual classed. You want to learn a skill find a trainer and you should be able to learn it over time!
Effectively you dual class to get more powers/skills/attribute points, your power gaming.
I think Nate is on the head here. Most likely you would die before you got out of the armor. That coin in your pocket just hit you with an MDC attack. Your zipper just burned you to ash. Your buttons just ate you. Every peice of metal you have tests for infection (ALL AT THE SAME TIME) the second you open the suit.
This may seem harsh but this is gone over so many times it is sickening. So sorry to offend.
If you say I am running splicers and the player wants to play a robotech pilot, tell him your running splicers and try to show him a class he might like, example outrider.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:35 am
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
Dual class characters exist.
Level x in the first class then achieve level Y in a new class.
Legit.
Multiclass???
Um not this system. Or more likely not yet in the system. Lol


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:00 am
  

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Hero

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However I can see things like gods, SI, ancient dragons might have the lifetimes in terms of thousands of years to justify them having more then one class.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:03 am
  

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Hero

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When we look at Ralph "The Red" Bellamy he is a dreadguard, anything else is fluff for storyline.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:57 am
  

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I actually was just mulling this over. Ralph Bellamy's fluff states he rose from the ranks of the Roughnecks to become a Dreadguard.
There are multiple skill programs that a Roughneck must take that a Dreadguard cannot and vice versa.

I was writing up a Falconer who later becomes Warlord of her house [after killing her father, the current Warlord]. Per House decree, she had to be trained as a Dreadguard and receive a suit of Host Armor. My simple resolution was simply adding the Host Pilot program and OCC Bonuses. I am still up in the air about the attribute bonuses.

Cost???

Stop earning XP as a Falconer.
Start as a "Level 0" Dreadguard
Earn enough XP to become have advanced to a 2nd level Dreadguard
Character now starts as 1st level.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:08 pm
  

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Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
I have a character in my campaign that is a Dreadguard that also rose through the ranks of the Roughnecks

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:29 pm
  

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Comment: PROUDLY Not a member of the "Cabal of 24"
The Galactus Kid wrote:
I have a character in my campaign that is a Dreadguard that also rose through the ranks of the Roughnecks

I take it that the character started as a Roughneck with Roughneck skills. What did you do when they became Dreadguards?

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