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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:14 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:11 pm
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Just a quick question about the version for the Host Armor (Rifter #50, page 85)... given that the prerequisites are merely expanded and added upon, rather than replaces, would it be possible to add this weapon at 1st level (provided one has the Bio-E points to do so)?

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:17 pm
  

Palladin

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nope. there's other modifications where this is the case (heat resistance ==> heat projector comes to mind) and they aren't given any special exceptions.

the only exception is when something is a default modification, such as with most warmounts.

I could certainly see something like a preset kit that is available from a given great house, as sort of a proprietary technology.

so, for example, a house that focuses heavily on battling large groups of robots might allow you to start off with a second-tier spore discharger on your host armour (at a slightly higher cost than usual to account for the fact that it's normally impossible), or a house that has a heavy focus on scouting and ambushes might allow you to pick up a basic list of sensory options + camouflage at a slightly reduced cost (assuming none of the sensory upgrades are second-tier; again, that would imo require a slight increase in cost).

basically, it makes a lot of sense for each house to have some slight differences, based on the research their librarians are doing. after all, they wouldn't be doing the research if it wasn't improving anything, right? so it does stand to reason that each house will have something that they do better (but in contrast, many houses will also do something worse than the baseline; most should be equally good with the lower tier stuff and older warmounts, but some might have a harder time with the more resource-intensive or newer stuff, like gardeners or dracos warmounts).


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:16 pm
  

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Hero

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But this isn't exactly an upgrade to either of the prerequisites... but rather these are needed to power the weapon.

It is just like the Electrical Discharger needing Increased Metabolic Rate and Electrical Resistance... which you can take at the same time as getting that particular weapon system.

It's like saying you need to purchase an e-clip before you can buy a laser gun... after you get another level of experience.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:25 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
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the electrical discharger doesn't say anywhere that you can get it at the same time as you get the increased metabolic rate or electrical resistance modifications. it just says that in addition to any other requirements an electrical modification has, you have those as pre-requisites too (although personally, i feel like a lot more modifications should have the "added but not replaced" statement in them just like the heat projector).


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:00 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Location: Working on getting Splicers more support!!!
Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
No. You still need to get the prerequisites at previous levels.

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:35 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
I have a question about the initial version on page 69 (defensive structure, not armor add-on)

I assume that the photonic blasts from this do not count as lasers... or does anyone think they might count as lasers? Would Glitter-Boys be resistane to these things?

If they did, a pair could theoretically regenerate themselves by blasting one another. Even an immature light blast inflicts more than the damage one needs to absorb to recharge a light blast. A heavy blast which only costs 2, could be absorbed to recharge 3. About the only downside I can see is the potential to miss and waste the energy. Plus this takes tiem in which you can't be engaging in battle... but it still seems better to do this than to let the plant die, since plants take awhile to grow.

The regenerative capabilities are even greater for mature plants. A single heavy blast could easily restore 20 charges while only costing 2. So if these were lasers, the payload would be easily restored if you had more than 1 for mutual targetting.

Presumably a Gardener would have to be around to do this though, since the plants would not instinctively fire upon one another, so that's another limitation.

It occurs to me that a Tech-guy could make a great pairing with a Gardener for recharging these. If they got ahold of a single nuclear power plant to get an unlimited laser payload (Machine People from Phase World would also be great for this) they could go around recharging these defensive structures.

Not as much of an asset for the mature ones which regenerate on their own, but I think essential for the front lines since the immature plants can't recharge and you'd want to keep them at peak capacity both for defense and to ensure maturity into adulthood.

What I'm wondering though, is if you could get one of those nanobot guys to help, or a Machine Person, would there be a way to allow them to help in close proximity without triggering the defense to target them?

I assume a Gardener could control and override the plant to prevent it from attacking, but if one was not around, it seems dangerous and the only way to help would be to target them from out of range.

Would a plant try to target enemies beyond their maximum range? Would it be possible for a Gardener to force them to do so if they did not do so instinctivley? There are rules for firearms beyond effective ranges (strike penalties per 50 feet I think) and I'm wondering if this could apply to the structure.

Firing at out-of-range targets would seem a huge risk for immature plants since they could expend their payload and wastefully so, rarely hitting. If they only did so upon a Gardener's command (perhaps their own sensory abilities terminate at their effective ranges?) this would not be a risk though.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:49 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
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honestly, the not-a-laser weapons should probably be better at charging these things than actual lasers.

with that said, the whole thing is basically powered by handwavium. the kind of efficiency you get out of these plants is a bit ridiculous. regardless, I tend to presume that the not-a-laser bio-weapons would work fine to recharge.

as to the plants blasting themselves, I tend to agree that some sort of assistance from a gardener would be required, since there's no mention that they do it themselves. as far as troops recharging them, it should be possible with standard biotech, no need for the specialized modifications.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:04 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:45 pm
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Location: Working on getting Splicers more support!!!
Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
Tor wrote:
I have a question about the initial version on page 69 (defensive structure, not armor add-on)

I assume that the photonic blasts from this do not count as lasers... or does anyone think they might count as lasers? Would Glitter-Boys be resistane to these things?


They are not lasers. They are an energy weapon, but not lasers.

Tor wrote:
If they did, a pair could theoretically regenerate themselves by blasting one another. Even an immature light blast inflicts more than the damage one needs to absorb to recharge a light blast. A heavy blast which only costs 2, could be absorbed to recharge 3. About the only downside I can see is the potential to miss and waste the energy. Plus this takes tiem in which you can't be engaging in battle... but it still seems better to do this than to let the plant die, since plants take awhile to grow.


This will not work. See above.

Tor wrote:
Would a plant try to target enemies beyond their maximum range? Would it be possible for a Gardener to force them to do so if they did not do so instinctivley? There are rules for firearms beyond effective ranges (strike penalties per 50 feet I think) and I'm wondering if this could apply to the structure.


Not unless a controlling gardener forced them to do so. The rules can apply, but only if the plants are forced to fire.

Tor wrote:
Firing at out-of-range targets would seem a huge risk for immature plants since they could expend their payload and wastefully so, rarely hitting. If they only did so upon a Gardener's command (perhaps their own sensory abilities terminate at their effective ranges?) this would not be a risk though.

Exactly.

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:38 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Man, one of those tech guys merging with a pair of laser rifles stolen from the machine would be an excellent team-up with a Gardener nurturing new stock though eh?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:37 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:45 pm
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Location: Working on getting Splicers more support!!!
Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
Potentially, yes. Depends on the attitudes of the particular great house in question and the particular techno jacket clan.

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Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:33 am
  

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Palladin

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7019
Location: Pyramid
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
It wouldn't be that high a risk if they kept a safe distance from others.

Kind of scary if one of those guys got one of the anti-tank laser rifles from Rifts South America 2, same as Machine People the '1 e-clip per blast' limit doesn't really matter.

Now I'm wondering what the nanobots would do to Phase World's Machine People in the Splicers world, or if a Splicers person touched a Machine Person, what would happen.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:31 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:45 pm
Posts: 10834
Location: Working on getting Splicers more support!!!
Comment: THE SPLICE MUST FLOW!!!
I tend not to speculate on such things since Splicers is such a magically void setting that Rifts and Phase World never bridge with Splicers in any game that I run.

_________________
Image
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:
I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.

Ninjabunny wrote:
You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.

Marrowlight wrote:
The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you. 8-)

ALAshbaugh wrote:
Because DINOSAURS.


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