One Man Army! (and book legal)

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One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

  • Multiple Selves
  • Mirror Mastery - PU1
  • Energy Doppleganger - PU1

For this The Main form will be known as "Alpha"

15th level mutant
Alpha makes a Mirror Copy and an Energy Doppleganger
Alpha then makes 15 copies via Multiple Selves. The Mirror of Alpha makes an Energy Doppleganger. (We are now 19 strong)

Now the Multiple Selves only have Mirror Mastery and Energy Doppleganger. Each Multiple makes an Energy Dopple Ganger (thats 15 more bring us to 34) The each Multiple Self also makes a Mirror Image (another 15 making us 49). Each Mirror Image (15) makes an Energy Doppleganger bringing us to 64)

Alpha
15 Multiple Selves
16 Mirror Images
32 Energy Dopplegangers

Completely book legal.
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Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

I'll see you with 1 Mega experiment with 3 major powers.

Invunerability.
APS: Plasma
CEF: Air

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Unread post by NMI »

goodlun wrote:I would be interested in watching all 64 of them getting wipped out by a super with a Strongly defensive power like APS Liquid and something good against multipule people like Control Radiation.
Radiation wouldnt affect the energy dopplegangers. And the mass self explosion that they could perform would surely hamper the APS Liquid character.
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Unread post by Kalinda »

Could be effective as long as the original can stay out of the fight.

One called shot to the head could end things pretty quickly though.
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Unread post by Reagren Wright »

Might as well call the hero One Man Platoon.
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Unread post by znbrtn »

Shadow wrote::lol: Thats cool :lol: I can't beleive I didn't think of that. Alpha makes the perfect villian for sure. His major offensive power is the energy dopplegangers (wether they explode or not)


and mirror mastery isn't a bad power either. if each duplicate had a full-sized mirror(they would want to have one anyway for mirror duplicates), there'd be mirror blasts all over the place! :D
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Unread post by Gomen_Nagai »

pfft. the entire army is defeated by Anyone with CEF AIR and APS Void. ...
Create a tornado, suck them all into vacuum then as for the explosions hmm.. could be a problem.. but that's why you take out the leader...




Or just send a single blaze alien and give him a Super shield to autoparry everything..
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Unread post by NMI »

Gomen_Nagai wrote:pfft. the entire army is defeated by Anyone with CEF AIR and APS Void. ...
Create a tornado, suck them all into vacuum then as for the explosions hmm.. could be a problem.. but that's why you take out the leader...




Or just send a single blaze alien and give him a Super shield to autoparry everything..
I would actually say that the Energy Dopplegangers would be immune to the tornado effexts since they are immune to bullets/punches/etc.. (thats if memory serves me correctly. I dont have the book with me - I will retract this if THE BOOKproves me wrong).
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Unread post by Glistam »

The 60' radius will start to become real cumbersome to kep track of with that many duplicates on the field.
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Unread post by Gomen_Nagai »

and someone with negate super powers is gonna Reduce all those bad guys into one and if he meets someone with mimic he just lost the match.
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Unread post by Sentinel »

The original statemnet was "One man army (book legal)" not "one man unstopable army that can kill anyone in his way (book legal)"


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What a gyp... :lol:
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Unread post by Zenvis »

Unkledak wrote:Book legal or not, that still got be a "munchkin" offence, if nothin' else.
You could mop the floor with these guys if you had the right power arrangement. For heaven sake, the guy has no eye beams, no incredible strength, no flight powers etc....
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Unread post by NMI »

Zenvis Ryhen Tradi'Vetta wrote:
Unkledak wrote:Book legal or not, that still got be a "munchkin" offence, if nothin' else.
You could mop the floor with these guys if you had the right power arrangement. For heaven sake, the guy has no eye beams, no incredible strength, no flight powers etc....
The Energy Doppleganers have energy blasts, as do the Mirror Duplicates.
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Unread post by Zenvis »

The Deific NMI wrote:
Zenvis Ryhen Tradi'Vetta wrote:
Unkledak wrote:Book legal or not, that still got be a "munchkin" offence, if nothin' else.
You could mop the floor with these guys if you had the right power arrangement. For heaven sake, the guy has no eye beams, no incredible strength, no flight powers etc....
The Energy Doppleganers have energy blasts, as do the Mirror Duplicates.
What! Oh.... better rethink my plan to take down such a character.
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Unread post by TJ_1976 »

Actually I came up with this same concept around mid november) for a villain on EU with the then at the time gm,he did a wow and said no,so then i made him with multiple selves, mind control and negate superpower instead, and he said no to that,so then negate superpowers was changed to aps shadow and he was dubbed the shadow king.................. but never got to play him cause the game flopped and reset before it ever got started,gm left and took idea's with him due to life problems.

Great minds think alike, either that or you were that gm.
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Unread post by TJ_1976 »

uhm,good point,switch mirrormastery with swarm selves,let's you got about 10 mini you,each of your multiples breaks down into ten mini yous and each one still had doppleganger,so that would be about 150 energy mini's and 150 regular mini's.
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Unread post by Zenvis »

I would like to see the whole character fleshed out.
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Unread post by TJ_1976 »

Then make it. I aint gonna do it for you.
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Unread post by LostOne »

:eek:

*Pulls out a big stick with NERF stenciled in large print on it*

*Beats NMI mercilessly, because someone should*

:lol:

Very cool concept...I wish I had my books with me so I could look at these powers closer. They need some kind of offensive boost. Are all three of those powers major? If you take these three powers as a Megahero that can get more than 3 major (like the option of getting powers as you level up) then you can add some offense (and defense) by giving Matter Expulsion: Metal, or APS Plasma. :?
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Unread post by NMI »

Or you could make this person an Arismal Alien and have up to...
  • 2 Majors and 1D4+1 Minors (and most of us trade in 2 Minors for 1 Major, so this could be up 4 Majors and 1 Minor)
  • 3 Majors or
  • 8 Super Psionic Powers
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Unread post by Zenvis »

The Deific NMI wrote:Or you could make this person an Arismal Alien and have up to...
  • 2 Majors and 1D4+1 Minors (and most of us trade in 2 Minors for 1 Major, so this could be up 4 Majors and 1 Minor)
  • 3 Majors or
  • 8 Super Psionic Powers

Whoa.... I dont know, Such a powerful guy.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

But if you're talking about the (VERY) old Mimic + Multiple Beings trick, it has been pointed out here on the boards ALLOT By NMI that he personally doesn't allow for that combo to work since he feels that Clones share the same Signature as the Originating Super!

Most GM's just plain forbid this power combo, And even 'I' have only allowed That power combo three times in three games because in All three situations the players came up with REALLY good reasons why it was pulled off.

1) In the First case I had a player who Only had Mimicry and one minor power who came across a villian who had 'Multiple Beings', Invulnerability, and some Other bad ars power.
So Naturally That villain thought he was a bad @rs and would win the fight with all of his copy army of 3 Hims (He was level 5). The other player used Multiple Beings out to infinity [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1K,2K,4K,8K,16K...ETC] and didn't even have to lay a finger on the villian... who stared at the Still ever increasing army and said "I give up"... Short Non-violant end game.

2) In the SECOND game a player wanted to JUST have Mimicry + Multiple Beings because he wanted an army of Normal people. (Called himself Joe American)... In THAT case I Only allowed his Mimicry to work with HIS Multiple Beings power and neither he nor his copies could copy others powers. He joined the SLJ and helped REALLY Bloster their ranks. He was A very 'Billy Numerous' kinda power... But as a good guy.

3) In the Third case... Well, I finally got sick and tired of Power rules Ret-Con and created a Mega BAD GUY shpaeshifter to throw at the players named MASSIK who was "Collecting" ever power in the book so as to create his OWN super mutant race and take over the Mega-verse! And Even then, the guy didn't actually start out with the Multiple-Beings power... He just realized that 'Aquiring' that power was sure allot faster way than tring to out-right genetically 'Clone' himself a race of Super Changlings.

...So Yeah...
Sounds cool, but as far as Gmae play-ability goes, it's ONLY cool as long as it doesn't Kill a game... Which in the Above three cases it didn't, it just added some spice to the game.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

Darkechilde wrote:Oh boy... I made the guy. I found a real good way to make him, too. Ironically, the only powers he has that were given, and not random, were Mimic, Multiple Selves, and Energy Doppleganger.

Legion

Power Catagory: Godling (PU2)
Level:15
IQ 15 (+6%)
ME 15
MA 25 (84%)
PS 30 (+15)
PP 18 (+2)
PE 25 (+20%)
PB 20 (50%)
SPD 30
HP 605
SDC 600

Combat
APM 16
Init. +11
Str. +4
Par. +7
Dod. +7
Disarm & entangle: +8
Pull Punch: +15
Roll +8
Death Blow: 16-20
A.R.: 14

Saves: Magic +9, psionics -4, H.F. +18, possession +13, and Poison +5

Powers: Grows with age and experience.
Mimic
Multiple Beings
Energy Doppleganger
Natural Combat Ability
(rolled 51% on chart in PU3) Force Strike
Force Blast

Mega Hero Powers:
Immortality
Extra Major Power Swarm Selves (I about fell out of my chair when I rolled this one...)

Achilles Heal:
Vulnerable to Psionics

Abilities (most of them):
Back Flip 98%, Paired Weapons, Exceptional Balance 98%.

Energy Doppleganger lasts for (on average) 7.5 hours, has 700 SDC, and 16 attacks per melee. Energy Blast does 5D6+15, and has a range of 450 ft.

Can make 7 copies of himself with Multiple Beings.

Force Strike has a range of 75ft.

Force Blast: Range: 96 ft. 12 ft. wide. Does 2d6 damage to everything in its path, and there is a 70% chance of knockdown. If it does, target loses two attacks per melee and init.

All of the above stuff is really not important. What is important is the number of guys that can be around after 30 seconds. That magic number is (and I did the math twice, so it should be right) 226, 074, 357, 616 BEFORE using swarm self. If he then pops swarm self, there will be 27,354,996,271,536 guys. Yes, ladies and gentleman, that is 27 TRILLION. Of course, there is still Energy Doppleganger for another 226 billion. (we are going to assume that after using swarm self, one can't use Energy Doppleganger to make 27 trillion copies.)

Effectively, if this was a bad guy, he takes on the world, and wins. The only real way to defeat him is to drop a nuke on him, and hope it atomizes him.

For the powers he has, note that at level 15 with the category "power grows with experience and level", you have, at level 15, 6 major powers. Under the Godling in the Immortal section of PU2, for mega powers, it says you can have one extra mega power or one major super power. I randomly rolled to see which one, and got another major, for a total of 7 powers. However, he only has six, as one of the rolls on the major powers table was a 51%, and I again randomly rolled for another major of choice, or two minors, and got two minors.

Stopping him before he pulls a "Mr. Smith" would be nigh impossible. By the time the alarm was raised that something bad was going down, and the heroes rush to the scene, there will be billions of him. If he just duplicated until the opposition arrived, which would be several minutes at best, there is no way he would be stopped. How do you tell which is the real one? How do you get to that one with trillions of guys in the way?

Deific NMI, do you see what you have done? This is all your fault.

20 nerd points to anyone that gets the "Mr. Smith" reference. :lol:

Nope, that is not what I "created" or suggested.
I did not have "mimic".
I had "Mirror Mastery".
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

I really bugs me to see the loophole of using mimic in order to have the clones make multiple
selves when the power states you can't make more duplicates. And how can you mimic yourself
when the clone is essentially the same as the original accept for making duplicates :-? ? Its
logic that doesn't make sense accept to "manipulate the spirit of the rule" in order to justify
making untold numbers of duplicates. And here's something to consider, how can you make
more duplicates then you have P.E.? If a duplicate dies you lose 1 P.E. attribute point forever.
So if I take a machinegun and do a full melee spray and hose down 30 duplicatres, and your
P.E. is 20, I don't care if you have 200 or whatever duplicates, your dead. I know people are
big fans of a certain mutant from Marvel comics who makes untold numbers of himself, but
come on, let's stick to the spirit of the power and have one every two levels or one every
level of experiece, or take a mega power from Rifter #37 and get two a level.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Severus Snape »

This is why I don't allow this particular combo in any game I run. For every 10 people that would use it wisely and put it to good use, there will always be 1 person that stretches it in this way to give themselves a huge advantage. It's like they think they are playing against the GM and need to "win".
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

Reagren Wright wrote:I really bugs me to see the loophole of using mimic in order to have the clones make multiple
selves when the power states you can't make more duplicates. And how can you mimic yourself
when the clone is essentially the same as the original accept for making duplicates :-? ? Its
logic that doesn't make sense accept to "manipulate the spirit of the rule" in order to justify
making untold numbers of duplicates. And here's something to consider, how can you make
more duplicates then you have P.E.? If a duplicate dies you lose 1 P.E. attribute point forever.
So if I take a machinegun and do a full melee spray and hose down 30 duplicatres, and your
P.E. is 20, I don't care if you have 200 or whatever duplicates, your dead. I know people are
big fans of a certain mutant from Marvel comics who makes untold numbers of himself, but
come on, let's stick to the spirit of the power and have one every two levels or one every
level of experiece, or take a mega power from Rifter #37 and get two a level.
The fact is, just like you, your clones have the ability to Copy Another bodies powers... AND because of the Newer rule that states that All of your power are (And this IS the big one that makes the Mimic+M-being trick work) Replaced, it simply mean that Yes, You are Still limited to the maximum copy limit, but your clones are Not using That power limit anymore, they are using the limits of the Mimicry power and what IT has to offer.

I understand where you are comming from, and even I at first thought as you did, BUT then I Redid the math and realized that the Mim+Mult combo is completely sound. See the deal is that you've got the same hang-ups/fixations that we all get in the begining regarding (A) the Cheat-O-Riffickness of the combo, (B) that whole you can't copy yourself rule, (C) The maximum copy limitation rule, and finally (D) The No clones can not make copies rule.
So let's adress them:


A)
YES, of course this combo appears to be Cheat-O-Riffic, but to be considered a True cheat, it would Have to be against the games rules and clearly it is not. And to further argue that the definition of Cheating is:
Spoiler:
VERB:
•To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
•To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
•To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
•To elude; escape: cheat death.
•To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
•To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
•Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
NOUN:
•An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.
•One who cheats; a swindler.
•Law Fraudulent acquisition of another's property.
•Botany An annual European species of brome grass (Bromus secalinus) widely naturalized in temperate regions.

•To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
This is the definition most assumed to be the basic meaning, and Is by Further definition:
"In role-playing games one of the most popular methods is using "trainer" programs, which usually greatly inflate player's stats/attributes." This last definition, created by roleplayers For roleplayers, implies (simply put) that 'You' (assumed cheater) beat 'I' (The offended one-who is often never even truly effected in the slightest by said cheaters action) to the punch in coming up with such a cool idea.

In short, cheating has been Re-written by roleplayers so as to imply "Anything that grants one an Un-fair advantage over other players or the gaming world"... Which A) Is the equivalent of Petty Jealousy, and B) Is a Crazy comment to base this off of because, By that Same exact definition, ANYONE who uses superpowers or guns or cars or advanced tech or magic or CHI martial-artist attacks or Normal martial artist attacks or Spirita-Anima or Giant mecha or body armor or Psychic powers in that same game where Normal humans (everyone for that matter) does Not have equal access to any and or all of the above, automatically defines Everyone here on the PB boards as cheaters...
By definition... Of course.
(IE, you have EE: Fire and you are taking on a normal unarmed human with a billy club at 30 ft range... You have the advantage and, by the above definition of cheating, which was invented by Unrealistic RP's, this clearly includes You into the above defintion. Meaning Everyone who has superpowers is an Automatic cheater cuz they are More powerful than Normal Un-augmented humans).


So... we move on a little to the Object lesson.
IF you consider this Combo to be a bad thing in your game, all you have to do is what the rest of us do and simply Not allow it, or allow it with restrictions, or Just allow it for few, True, RPers in your group to use... Like what i did.
PLUS, most all of my own gamers know of this combo and yet, despite many of them being Munchkins, I have had only had two of them (Both strict RPers) ever ask to play this combo. I didn't consider one guys idea "Good enough RPing", but the second guys idea Was quality so i let him fly with it.
So, there you have it... This combo has never cuased me trouble because I'm simply not gonna let Everyone Take such a rare combo when one considers how unlikely it would/should be for Two supers to Both have the same exact power combo... It is a Very rare combo, it (Like most other rare combos) should never come-up more than once or twice in a life time.
Period.

So A) has been discussed...
Moving on to B, C, & D.

B)
The "Your copy can't copy the original because they shair your life signature" rule:
This rule simply has Never existed anywhere in PB as the catch all rule for any such instance. It is, simply put, a made up rule that "Game Prosecutors" invented so as to justify their feeling of "What you just said/wrote/did made me feel uneasy, and "I" think it is illegal, or if it isn't, it Should be"...
FYI-A Game Prosecutor is the exact opposet of a Rules Lawyer. Where as a Rules Lawyer trys to fanagle every Lame And Logical reason in the Flufftext, Game rule system, and or Real world science for them to get away with obvious Murder by Twisting such consepts into Unrecognizable patterns, a Game Prosecutor will do that exact same thing in the Opposet direction so as to try and justify Restricting anyone and eveyones gaming experiance into fitting into Their limited frame of a gaming world (In other words..." RPG's are not about having fun, they are serious! No having fun!"). They are in short, the self appointed Police of the Gaming world, always trying to invent New rules so as to prevent "Cheating" or "Abuses", but very often (Just like real world police) they end-up taking things to far and endup becoming abusive themselves.
And (again Just like real world police) they often get it in their heads that Somehow they are the Avatars of their own personal god (Spelt L.A.W. instead of g.o.d.) and that They have an ever increasing right to start to Bend the rules in Their own favor... Very often becoming Just like a Rules Lawyer in that they twist meaning and definition of law to fit their own needs.
In the end One is a show off and goof off, the Other is a Game Nazi, But one Claims to be helping by bring about order for a better game (and in the begining often do), but in the end they Both end up destroying the whole RPGing experiance... Just like Mr.Po Po when They are not kept in check by the people.

C)
The Maximum Copy limit
All players with the Multiple-Beings super power are limited to 1one or 2two copies maximum per level... This is the rule. It is a FACT!
But when every someone Mimicks/copies your power, Regardless of whether or not the target of a power duplication has or has Not used their power to the maximum, the Mimicry power duplicates said power as though it was at Full capacity.
•So YOU the PC creates your maximum of four clones/duplicates at you level of 8...
•Guy X comes along and Copies your power.
•Looses ALL of his Other powers and attributes, and takes on all of Your (the PCs) instead.
•Guy X can now ALSO create 4 copies of Himself.
•Regardless of the fact that You the PC had all of your clones out at the time, Guy X can still create 4 copies.

That is Just how the power of Mimicry works... And THAT is also a Fact.
The simple fact is, that Guy X's clones can NOT create anymore clones because they are ALL copies of of a guy whos Mimicry power is Morphed into the PC's abilities, so they are stuck with the limits of the power of Multiple-Beings, meaning that all clones made are made.
BUT, if you combine the total number of clones on the feild, there are now 4 from the PC and 4 from Guy X... For a total of 8 clones when the rules say "No more than 4 at this time"... Why, because the rules IS being followed. The PC has created no more than 4 copies, and Guy X has created no more than 4 copies as well. The rules are followed and neither one broke the rule.
The Maximum rule was VERY specific in saying "The rule ONLY applies to the CREATOR of the clones"...
As his clones had Another, Differant rule apllied to Them as well. So No rules are broken here Either.

D)
Clones can NOT make copies.
This rule simply can not be broken. When Clones are created they are INCABABLE of directly using The SAME "Multiple-Beings" ability as their master that was used to create them...
THEY ARE STERILE!!!
Plain and simply...
they can NOT use that power.
BUT, Because of how the Mimicry power works, when the Clones use it, they loose All of their abilitys AND flaws and become near Bio-logical Copies of the Target at said targets Peek!!! Say what you will, say what you want about Both the Target And the Clones sharing a similar life signature, that rules restriction is Not written in either of the power nor Anywhere in the books. Clone Can copy the original games legal! And since they are NOT using the impotent version of the 'Multiple-Beings' power which is Locked away inside them to make the clones of themselves, but rather they are replacing much of themselves with a freash and Fully functional NEWLY working version of the Multiple-Bings supwer power, they in fact CAN create their Own copies which are now Unrelated versions of themselves.
Additionally:
Any clones using this power Via the Weaker Mass clone ability (The version of multiple Beings that lets you create one clone per level, instead of one clone per every Other level rule) has Copied the Original power level of their master creator at Full power... Which means that if the master was at level 4 and created 4 copies, they would all be at level 3 in power... BUT due to the Copies Mimicking their master, and although the clone was at level 3 in power a moment ago, they are Now bumped up to Level 4 power just like their master.


NOW THAT THAT HAS ALL BEEN SAID
This combo goes against the SPIRIT and logically assumed intent of what Kevin had wanted and, Clearly he would have Ixnay'ed this combo when he first created the powers had he realized at the time what it/they could do when put together... BUT, he hasn't becuase he figures that it upto YOU the Players, and YOU the GM/ST's to Not use this combo unless you're intent on powergaming OR you feel that you (as a responsible Play or GM that it will NOT disrupt the game.

But Still, we can all tell when someone wishes to be abusive with ANY POWER(S), and it is upto the GM to realize this fact ahead of time. LUCKILY with This age old Combo, we ARE Fairly warned... Unlike Other combos which do the Real damage becuase we ARE NOT ready for them... Those are Far more dangerious than the Mim+Mult combo for Just that reason.
But YES, this IS a game breaking power and therefore the GM/ST MUST Keep this combo in check.
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Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

Here is an interesting way of "legally [per HU2]" of doing this...
Multiple Selves [HU2, corebook]
Borrow Power [PU1, page 64]
and you can toss in Mimic if you really want although, I liked the idea of using "Absorb Bio-Bass"

Use the borrow power against the original to gain the ability to make multiples.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
  • Multiple Selves
  • Mirror Mastery - PU1
  • Energy Doppleganger - PU1
For this The Main form will be known as "Alpha"

15th level mutant
Alpha makes a Mirror Copy and an Energy Doppleganger
Alpha then makes 15 copies via Multiple Selves. The Mirror of Alpha makes an Energy Doppleganger. (We are now 19 strong)

Now the Multiple Selves only have Mirror Mastery and Energy Doppleganger. Each Multiple makes an Energy Dopple Ganger (thats 15 more bring us to 34) The each Multiple Self also makes a Mirror Image (another 15 making us 49). Each Mirror Image (15) makes an Energy Doppleganger bringing us to 64)

Alpha
15 Multiple Selves
16 Mirror Images
32 Energy Dopplegangers

Completely book legal.

yawn, been done before by someone else.

steeler>The multiple selves power says that the clones have ALL the powers of the original except the multiple self power. this allows the clones to use the other powers NMI listed.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

Earily on and Way back when I usedta tinker around with powers, I used the Multiple Beings + Gestalt trick to Not just absorb my clones/dupes, but get Really powerful doing it.
See, the way most peeps try it is to summon ALL of your clones at once and fuse with them right then and there... But if you summon them one at a time you Technically get a bigger bonuse.


A) summon clone... (About a 12.5% increase in height and doubling in mass may be added if you are a stickler for the dramatic and logical) This would Double your PS, SDC, HP, Energy Expulsion related powers and Regen (duh... as there is now two of you and you'd be both healing). PP/SPD wouldn't see much of a jump, neither would PE (for saves that is) if you Really wanna be PC And logical about it.

B) Summon Another copy. This copy would Logically be a duplicate of what you are Now, which is a gestalted being of increased height/size/mass/and attributes... Logically any how... (RPG's generally follow the anti-munchkin rules of Game Balance, so game abuse, And Logic, are no no. but this is all fer fun and Not for Gamer Correctness)

C) Your Doubled up You fuses with your Clone of a doubled up you... Doubling yourself for a Second time in a row! Now your PS, SDC, HP, Regen and EE: powers (and only such powers as energy attacks, gravity manipulation, and the like increase damage with out-put which doubles, and ME: Powers, flight, and the like do Not).
Your weight Again increases by x2 and Height by another 12.5%, all for a grand total of X4 Weight, X4 PS, X4 SDC, X4 HP, X4 REGEN, X4 To Energy/raw non KE force powers, X4 base weight and +25% Base Height!!!


D) Rinse & Repeat.
The original Gestalt power let you do this something like 16 times maximum... Which even the normal Super body could likely Not take the strain of for too very long as Logically that extra "unequally distributed" weight would harm your internal organs and bodily processes after a short time.

Now THAT is called power gaming and was a bit of a stretch on what Gestalt should ever be allowed to do but, this was all an excersize in WaCkEY fun hyberbole and logic theory what with I showing you how to go all "Super Sayijn" with your Supermen.


Now, realistically If you ever Did allow for Gestalt to absorb even clones, one should only Truly ever allow for the duplicates to just be copies of the Normal Non-augmented PC of yours. Frankly, this has never come up with players and likely never will as Most players like to try and create their Own awsome combos, and I have just spilled the beans all over the floor.
Still, the more Talked about (and Less grossily overpowered) Gestalt+Multiple-Bees is an Okay combo to have as, the new gestalt power is Much more limiting.
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Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
  • Multiple Selves
  • Mirror Mastery - PU1
  • Energy Doppleganger - PU1
For this The Main form will be known as "Alpha"

15th level mutant
Alpha makes a Mirror Copy and an Energy Doppleganger
Alpha then makes 15 copies via Multiple Selves. The Mirror of Alpha makes an Energy Doppleganger. (We are now 19 strong)

Now the Multiple Selves only have Mirror Mastery and Energy Doppleganger. Each Multiple makes an Energy Dopple Ganger (thats 15 more bring us to 34) The each Multiple Self also makes a Mirror Image (another 15 making us 49). Each Mirror Image (15) makes an Energy Doppleganger bringing us to 64)

Alpha
15 Multiple Selves
16 Mirror Images
32 Energy Dopplegangers

Completely book legal.

yawn, been done before by someone else.

steeler>The multiple selves power says that the clones have ALL the powers of the original except the multiple self power. this allows the clones to use the other powers NMI listed.

Don't yawn me! Look back at the date of the post you just quoted! :lol:
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
  • Multiple Selves
  • Mirror Mastery - PU1
  • Energy Doppleganger - PU1
For this The Main form will be known as "Alpha"

15th level mutant
Alpha makes a Mirror Copy and an Energy Doppleganger
Alpha then makes 15 copies via Multiple Selves. The Mirror of Alpha makes an Energy Doppleganger. (We are now 19 strong)

Now the Multiple Selves only have Mirror Mastery and Energy Doppleganger. Each Multiple makes an Energy Dopple Ganger (thats 15 more bring us to 34) The each Multiple Self also makes a Mirror Image (another 15 making us 49). Each Mirror Image (15) makes an Energy Doppleganger bringing us to 64)

Alpha
15 Multiple Selves
16 Mirror Images
32 Energy Dopplegangers

Completely book legal.

yawn, been done before by someone else.

steeler>The multiple selves power says that the clones have ALL the powers of the original except the multiple self power. this allows the clones to use the other powers NMI listed.
? :-? ?
Not sure I follow why you said this, cuz I do know this about the Multiple Being power...
It Is a sick (in a nice way) combo Nimmy made there I agree. Allotta energy guys flying around Is cool.
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Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
  • Multiple Selves
  • Mirror Mastery - PU1
  • Energy Doppleganger - PU1
For this The Main form will be known as "Alpha"

15th level mutant
Alpha makes a Mirror Copy and an Energy Doppleganger
Alpha then makes 15 copies via Multiple Selves. The Mirror of Alpha makes an Energy Doppleganger. (We are now 19 strong)

Now the Multiple Selves only have Mirror Mastery and Energy Doppleganger. Each Multiple makes an Energy Dopple Ganger (thats 15 more bring us to 34) The each Multiple Self also makes a Mirror Image (another 15 making us 49). Each Mirror Image (15) makes an Energy Doppleganger bringing us to 64)

Alpha
15 Multiple Selves
16 Mirror Images
32 Energy Dopplegangers

Completely book legal.

yawn, been done before by someone else.

steeler>The multiple selves power says that the clones have ALL the powers of the original except the multiple self power. this allows the clones to use the other powers NMI listed.

Don't yawn me! Look back at the date of the post you just quoted! :lol:


Blames the one who did a resurrection post to this topic....
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

I don't kill players, players kill players.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Severus Snape »

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:I don't kill players, players kill players.

Sig'ed.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

-------------------------------------------Off Toppic----------------------------------------
HAH!!! :lol:
Players kill players has Never been so true in my games...
I have 5 players outta the 60+/- I have ran, and Dang if at least 2 of Those 5 don't Always try and kill at least One of the other players in every game.
Right now they're in a RIFTS And an ABERRANT game (yeah I know, the RPG worlds Two biggest Munchkin Meta-plot games... I live Life Dangeriously :P )... And it's Only a Matter of time before One of them goes Psycho and runs off in an over emotional Killing spree, OR Worse yet he goes Sociopathic and becomes the emotionally dead "Nice Guy" social chameleon, always trying to be "Friendly" all the while your characters being sized up by him/her just like how the "General" was sizing up Jeff Daniels in the movie Arachnophobia!!!
Creepy!

--------------------------------------------On Topic-------------------------------------------
A great combo is 'Divine Healing' + 'Multiple Beings'
Makes fer a fun hero when you are your own medical trauma team.

---------------------------------------------On another Note-----------------------------------
There are just Some Major super-powers that NEED at least one other power... One Great example is "Grant Super Powers".
I did the math from Every angle possible and this power is Horrid w/o at least one Other useful power to either allow for (A) a boost in HP, (B) a means to regenerate, and or (C) a Really useful major or minor super power to grant others...
The Math: The average HP for a starting super is equal to their PE+D6! Then you add skills (let's say you get +4PE).
I averaged 16HP
•The power ONLY lasts for 3minutes per level, can Only be used on NON-powered indivdules, Only grants a Totally Random Minor power, OR (if you have one) a power You have at level one strength.
•But the Real issue is that it takes an Average 6-9HP to use it! Now considering HP recovery for a Superhuman with only Normal human stats and HP recovery times, AT BEST you can Only use this power Safely 1 once every couple of days. And each use at best drains you of nearly Half of your total HP... Which you REALLY NEED as your HP Is your life. Two uses is likely to put you in a coma... AT Least untill you get to a New level.

•Which is where we Then see problem Two of the power: How can someone who can Only safely use their power at best Twice every copla days, and Then needs DT (Down Time) to recover from what would 'Classical' be considered rather serious wounds.
Considering This fact, it should be VERY HARD for someone with Just this power to ever SEE those "Extra" levels of experiance.

•THEN you must consider that the powers can Only be granted to Other Normal people, which your Fellow heroes tend Never to be... As Unless they happen to be 'Stage Magicians' or some such Very normal hero class, Even Hero classes/OCC's like Fighters tend to see the granted powers cut in half. Thus you're Not too very useful to your friends.

•Then there is the fact that the powers you grant are TOTALLY random and a Large percentage (like 99%) of the time the powers granted are Not likely to be useful to the specifics of the situation... that is If you can even afford to grant them in the First place, and If the target of your Granting can even be granted the powers.

•THEN there is the fact that there is NO way for the subject of the 'Granted' power will even have a clue WHAT the power the've been granted even is, or have the training to know who to use it properly w/o causing potential harm to themselves, their surroundings, or others.

•THEN what happens if the power is, in and of itself, naturally harmfull...
-Glow can be dangerious at the wrong time, especially if you're triying to hide for a threat!!!
-Giant WILL cause you to rip Right out of your clothes, likely destroying some of your equipment, and in the wrong place (A confined location for instance) it could be downright Leathel!
-Some powers may be harmful Just because It may be harmful to those on yourside (including the Granted person) because of it stimulating certain vulnerablilties.
-Nothing says I LUV U like asking the granted person what the power is that they just got and, they start shooting flames out of their hands... At you... While you're all sitting in the middle of a Fireworks Factory!!!

Some Major powers like this one really, Really, REALLY need another power to make them Copacetic!!
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Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

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Steeler49er wrote:-Nothing says I LUV U like asking the granted person what the power is that they just got and, they start shooting flames out of their hands... At you... While you're all sitting in the middle of a Fireworks Factory!!
LOL! Hilarious! Oops
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Rimmer »

I took one look at this idea, and instantly thought;

"Kage Bushin no Jutsu"

10 geek points to whomever gets this.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

Rimmer wrote:I took one look at this idea, and instantly thought;

"Kage Bushin no Jutsu"

10 geek points to whomever gets this.

Naruto / shadow jutsus
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Rimmer »

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:
Rimmer wrote:I took one look at this idea, and instantly thought;

"Kage Bushin no Jutsu"

10 geek points to whomever gets this.

Naruto / shadow jutsus


I'll give you 20 for that !
I let my wife play rifts once....................she shot me in the back of the head with a naruni plasma pistol, gaffa taped a type 4 fusion block to my nether regions, and kicked my ass off the apc travelling at 100 MPH

gimme a break, my pc is a playa, not me.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

the hell with the clothes. If the clones are "pretty" enough, that could even more of a distraction to the enemy!
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Severus Snape »

FaerieKnight wrote:Unless you have bio aura, how can you be prepared to summon eight clones and give them clothing to put on mid fight?

Instant Wardrobe comes to mind.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by NMI »

FaerieKnight wrote:Not sure, but wouldn't you still have to have each clone spend an action to summon an outfit?

I'd allow it as a power stunt of sorts. If they were absorbed while wearing clothes, they could be unleashed wearing the same clothes.
What do clones do when they are absorbed?
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by dragon_blaze_99 »

if the character has Bio Aura it should copy the clothing and simple equipment
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Noon »

Is working out these things interesting to note?

Working out weirdly powerful combos in the pal system is typically as hard as fighting your way out of a paper bag.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:the hell with the clothes. If the clones are "pretty" enough, that could even more of a distraction to the enemy!
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ stars to NMI for finding an excuse to use the "Sexy Jutsu" as a creative answer to a problem :ok:



So this is yet another reason that having Shape Shifting + Multiple being can rock since, If you get skilled in it you can create a realistic look of clothing while still being naked...

By if you are a sexy looking girl and you have "Generate Smoke', that can also be useful.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

FaerieKnight wrote:Think the worst char I've made for being overpowered was... +7 to strike, +15 parry/dodge, +30 roll with impact, with either 6 or 7 attacks per melee... at level 1. I only played that character for a few sessions.

The WORST and yet most awsome momment was when a player of mine got his character (a juicer name Joe Amanni) upto 270+/- AtPM's for just one melee... And then fell over into a coma.
The ultimate one shot pony ride :lol:


But as to you Clones+clothes issue, even Kevin admitted (Pre 'Bio-Aura' & PU3) that he would just sometimes forgo that rule about creating them naked... It's called a GM's prerogative.
•Just like when I say "To H311 with the 'No two APS powers' or 'No APS powers + Multiple Beings' combo restrictions"...
•Or when I say that Partical beam weapons "Do Not Count As Speacial Form of Energy That Can Harm Those Supers with Invulnerability"...
•Or when I allow a Player to take/use the ORIGINAL version of MIMICRY which allows "All of your own Abilities" to be used in addition to those gained via Mimicry"-But Only if I like their character consept.

•Or when I thow out any shiz that comes out in any new Nightbane books that counters pre-established NIGHTSPAWN game canon.
•OR when I throw out the ULTIMATE game imbalancer ret-con New Rifts Magic Casting rules.

You're the ST/GM/DM you make, remake, or re-establish the rules as you see fit or needed. Personally I Hate changing rules but... Sometimes you have just got to. I PERSONALLY always allow the players to roll to see if their clones have Bio-aura via D4roll:

1) Clones/duplicates clothes drop off them when they are absorbed. Clones are naked when recreated. Consolation Prize: Clones heal in one hour, not in one day and If a successful PE roll is made Vs. difficulty 18, the player may reduce that time by 10min for every point of success he/she roll over the target number.
Failed Roll: Forevery point the player rolled under the target number by, he/she looses either 1 point of PE or 1D6% of their SDC/HP. Players choice. HP/SDC loss can not regenerate and Must heal at normal human rates (player adds any PE bonuses to that rate of recovery).

2) If the player has enough powers and wishes to give one up, he/she can BUY Bio-aura. This version allows for Only the main clones clothes/items to be copied but the Bio-Aura works as per normal in every other way for any other powers.

3) Clones have Bio-Aura for free but Just for the sake of creating clones.

4) If the player has enough powers and wishes to give one up, he/she can BUY Bio-aura. In This version the player may choose every time of absorbtion that the clones clothes/items dissappear when absorbed and Only those clothes/items clones last wore are recreated, OR that the clones loose the clothes and my come out naked, or with their creators clothes. This is the most powerful version and as such the Clones take 20 days to recover from damage -minus any successes made on a PE diff 18 roll to reduce that time by one day per success...
Failed Roll: Forevery point the player rolled under the target number by, he/she looses either 1 point of PE or 1D6% of their SDC/HP. Players choice. HP/SDC loss can not regenerate and Must heal at normal human rates (player adds any PE bonuses to that rate of recovery).

5) The player/PC gets Bio-aura for free. In This version the clones clothes/items dissappear when absorbed and Only those clothes/items clones last wore are recreated. This form of Bio-aura only works for the Multiple beings power and no other.

6) Flip a coin :P


You could create your Own roll chart and show it to your players yourself.
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Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

Steeler49er wrote:
A great combo is 'Divine Healing' + 'Multiple Beings'
Makes fer a fun hero when you are your own medical trauma team.


Hmm, try Possession+ MB's then just absorb thier helpless bodies while they stay in thier hosts.
{as a power stunt maybe you can keep their bodyi in you but tlet out their mind/spirit hat possess's somebody?}

There are just Some Major super-powers that NEED at least one other power... One Great example is "Grant Super Powers".
I did the math from Every angle possible and this power is Horrid w/o at least one Other useful power to either allow for (A) a boost in HP, (B) a means to regenerate, and or (C) a Really useful major or minor super power to grant others...
The Math: The average HP for a starting super is equal to their PE+D6! Then you add skills (let's say you get +4PE).
I averaged 16HP
•The power ONLY lasts for 3minutes per level, can Only be used on NON-powered indivdules, Only grants a Totally Random Minor power, OR (if you have one) a power You have at level one strength.
•But the Real issue is that it takes an Average 6-9HP to use it! Now considering HP recovery for a Superhuman with only Normal human stats and HP recovery times, AT BEST you can Only use this power Safely 1 once every couple of days. And each use at best drains you of nearly Half of your total HP... Which you REALLY NEED as your HP Is your life. Two uses is likely to put you in a coma... AT Least untill you get to a New level.
•Which is where we Then see problem Two of the power:

Now see, when I first saw this power I thought of healing factor, not only because it will solve problem #2 handility IMO, but also because you then becoeme a healer. Not in the sense that it increase their HP recoverey rate, even if they used the "instant healing" thing that you can do once or twice a day. Rather because it's makes you
. Goodbye AIDS.
Thought to avoid being dissected/mobbed it might be best to keep this ability hidden until you can make money off it by healing sick rich people or thier kids. Other than a couple of spells from a Nightbane suppliment this is the only way I know of to heal/cure serious diseases. { For those wondering, the spells are the Fleshcrafter spell that has a 1% cahnce of curing cancer, and the Draught of Life and Deathwhich. Technically the Daught doesn't cure the disease it just moves things around. They are found in Through the Looking Glass a useful suppliment on magic in general...}

•THEN you must consider that the powers can Only be granted to Other Normal people, which your Fellow heroes tend Never to be... As Unless they happen to be 'Stage Magicians' or some such Very normal hero class, Even Hero classes/OCC's like Fighters tend to see the granted powers cut in half. Thus you're Not too very useful to your friends.


THe most reconet "campaigne diary" thread had a BadArse Normalnamed Golem(yes he was jewish, how'd you guess). This would have given him "Full" powers. Try telling him he's "normal person" and there for some how useless.

•Then there is the fact that the powers you grant are TOTALLY random and a Large percentage (like 99%) of the time the powers granted are Not likely to be useful to the specifics of the situation... that is If you can even afford to grant them in the First place, and If the target of your Granting can even be granted the powers.


*rolls eyes*
You really don't get it do you, you take powers that would be useful to give to others if you take this powers.

•THEN there is the fact that there is NO way for the subject of the 'Granted' power will even have a clue WHAT the power the've been granted even is, or have the training to know who to use it properly w/o causing potential harm to themselves, their surroundings, or others.


MEh they'd h ve as mcuh clue as anyoen else you suddenly gained powers. ID ont' see why the random power wouldn't give them a clue when they got it.
I was thikng of a smaller Minor versionfo; this pwoer called "Seed of Life" were you can only give poeel healing factor.
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
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Steeler49er
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

Sir_Spirit wrote:
Steeler49er wrote:•Then there is the fact that the powers you grant are TOTALLY random and a Large percentage (like 99%) of the time the powers granted are Not likely to be useful to the specifics of the situation... that is If you can even afford to grant them in the First place, and If the target of your Granting can even be granted the powers.


*rolls eyes*
You really don't get it do you, you take powers that would be useful to give to others if you take this powers.

But do you remember what i started this comment off with in the header just a few lines up?
Steeler wrote:There are just Some Major super-powers that NEED at least one other power... One Great example is "Grant Super Powers".





Sir_Spirit wrote:
Steeler49er wrote:•THEN there is the fact that there is NO way for the subject of the 'Granted' power will even have a clue WHAT the power the've been granted even is, or have the training to know who to use it properly w/o causing potential harm to themselves, their surroundings, or others.

MEh they'd h ve as mcuh clue as anyoen else you suddenly gained powers. ID ont' see why the random power wouldn't give them a clue when they got it.
They wouldn't be much differant, and that is my point... MANY normal super peeps who Just get their powers in an instant do not know how to use them and they tend to cause accidents, it's comic book canon.
As to them knowing how to use the power, there is no reason to assume that they would, however in english when something would be an added aspect of something it is Most often mentioned. To Not say weither a power does something tends to imply that it does not do said thing, therefore saying nothing equals out in most peoples head to saying that the super ability GSP does not grant knowledge of how to use it.
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Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by asajosh »

Pretty cool.
Twisted and I would not allow in a game of mine (most likely), but kudos for creativity :)
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Steeler49er
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Re: One Man Army! (and book legal)

Unread post by Steeler49er »

paxmiles wrote:
Steeler49er wrote:A great combo is 'Divine Healing' + 'Multiple Beings'
Makes fer a fun hero when you are your own medical trauma team.


And this is the best practical use for that multiple beings power I've seen.

:-o

Danka!

After playing a few games of Aberrant I realized that most Real super heroes should be played as Heroes and Not as Crime Fighters since Crime Fighters tend to Not save civilians in most games I play. Kids like crime fighters cuz they run around in cool duds bashing bad guys, but grown-ups tend to appreciate actually being Saved from Burning Buildings, Drowning/Sinking Ships, Falling debris, Tornados/Hurricanes, Floods, Flying in food during Drout/Famine, Power Outages/Blackouts, Locating Lost/Stranded Hikers, Finding missing/abuducted children, Being Cured from the sickness of a plagues deadly touch, and or being pulled from under a fallen building after an earthquake... Real Heroes.


________________________________________________OTHER COMBOS______________________________________________
Multiple Beings + APS: Water (Ignoring That 'Lame' rule) allows you to make an Awesome fire fighter since you can get into places normal Fire Fighters can't, never run out of water, are highly resistant to heat damage (and no heat/fire damage is permanent), don't need to worry about smoke inhalation, and your morphic shape means you can turn into an awesome amount of perfect shapes for the exacts situation.

Multiple Beings + Radiation Control
Become an excelent UN nuclear weapons inspector now that more than one of you can move through buildings very fast. Plus you and your clones can safely halt nuclear disasters and despose of radioactive materials.

Multiple Beings + Plant Control/CEF:Earth
Become the Ultimate land scapers.

Multiple Beings + Animate Drawings
Become your own Super animation art team!
Eat yer heart out CLAMP & Shonen Jump. Maybe NOW American/US cartoons can compete with Japanies Anime.

Multiple Beings + Grant Super Powers
Now you can have Lotsa clones of Other guys/gals running around. Since Each of Your Clones can grant the Multiple Beings power to other normal people w/o draining your own HP to the point of death, Just your Copies loose the HP. This combo has limitless potentials.
Hey, you ever want that threesome with yer girlfriend? Well now maybe you can :eek:

Multiple Beings + Zombie Flesh
•You are your own personal FIGHT CLUB.
•OR Play the part of a Zombie Hoard... For the Hoard!
Not to very useful, just mostly this one is for fun.

Multiple Beings + Sleepless
You are your own living Guild... And No Guild in WoW could compete with your ability to stay up That long!
Image...."SMILE YOU S.O.B"....Image


Problem is I used Placebos "Running Up that Hill" to get Catherine Wheels "Black Metallic" to get Monorals "KIRI" to get Dan Balans "Crazy Loop" out of my head in the first place.
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