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 Post subject: Becoming a God
Unread postPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:31 pm
  

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Howdy, Folks. I have a PC in my campaign who has established the God Complex insanity. It makes for really good roleplay because he plays the insanity VERY well. Case in point. He had 3 other PC's and about 10 NPC's or so (3 or 4 could be able to stand and deliver in a fight) in a bar. They were trying to recruit a crew for their ship and the captain of another ship disrespected him (in his eyes). The captain sent his first mate out of the bar. The "God" PC continues to up the ante when they notice about 40 or 50 of the captain's crew outside ready for a fight. Rather than retreating or de-escallating the situation, he continues to be a jerk and does some temporal time voodo on the captain. The crew backed down eventually but in the face of insurmountable odds, he stuck to his guns and played in character.

So since this insanity causes such good roleplay for the players and myself, I want to start rewarding him. He has established his holy symbol and has started recruiting members for his church. As his church grows he should start getting powers.

How should I start incorporating the effects of his worshipers into power? Should it be when he's around a large group of his followers, should he start getting powers he didn't have before? I'm at a loss of how to start "godding" this guy up.

HELP!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Becoming a God
Unread postPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:35 pm
  

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Aaryq wrote:
Howdy, Folks. I have a PC in my campaign who has established the God Complex insanity. It makes for really good roleplay because he plays the insanity VERY well. Case in point. He had 3 other PC's and about 10 NPC's or so (3 or 4 could be able to stand and deliver in a fight) in a bar. They were trying to recruit a crew for their ship and the captain of another ship disrespected him (in his eyes). The captain sent his first mate out of the bar. The "God" PC continues to up the ante when they notice about 40 or 50 of the captain's crew outside ready for a fight. Rather than retreating or de-escallating the situation, he continues to be a jerk and does some temporal time voodo on the captain. The crew backed down eventually but in the face of insurmountable odds, he stuck to his guns and played in character.

So since this insanity causes such good roleplay for the players and myself, I want to start rewarding him. He has established his holy symbol and has started recruiting members for his church. As his church grows he should start getting powers.

How should I start incorporating the effects of his worshipers into power? Should it be when he's around a large group of his followers, should he start getting powers he didn't have before? I'm at a loss of how to start "godding" this guy up.

HELP!!!!!!


Honestly? A browse of the Gods in Palladium's "Dragons and Gods" might help a lot....as might taking a look at how D&D3E (or 3.5) handle such powers.

With that said, in situations like this I'm a big fan of "winging" it. But remember, if you start godding up one player....it's only a matter of time before similar things are necessary for the rest of the party, or else they'll literally start getting one shotted by the things that will now "casually challenge" your god pc.

It's a dangerous slippery slope that I enjoy exploring....but before you go ahead and start rewarding him, you might want to get a feeling for how the rest of the party feels about the ante being upped like this.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:46 pm
  

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Don't worry. I'm not a big fan of unbalancing my characters. If he becomes a god, the other characters will get boosted in their strengths (men at arms will get more tech, mages will get more and/or better spells, psi characters will get more psionics, etc). Balance will not be an issue.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:05 am
  

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if you want to know how to set up this church i suggest reaserching cults on the web. as far as powers go. i would say slowly over time (as he becomes more insane) he would feel himself growing in power. this may lead to stupid and dumb things. as far as actually becoming a god. i would say for that to happen he would need atleast a few hundred thousand worshippers (enough to let the real gods notice him, evil or good. depending on how the pc is) and turn him into a god by giving him a special item, or by eating a special food, or even doing a great (evil) deed. only at that point would he be a real god.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:46 am
  

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Peruse the Book of Magic, Heroes Unlimited, PU1,2,3, etc. and look for coolpowers and effects. The more followers he gets, the more PPE he gets, the stronger/more frequent/whatever the powers he gets.

Start off with simple things, like, maybe the Priest of Light's Healing Touch from Palladium Fantasy.

Build up from there until he qualifies for demigodhood.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:36 am
  

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Other things to think: What niche do he occupies as a God? Is there another god who can feel challenged? This can lead to a confrontation first between cults and then between gods themselves. Good luck :D

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:48 am
  

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mobuttu wrote:
Other things to think: What niche do he occupies as a God? Is there another god who can feel challenged? This can lead to a confrontation first between cults and then between gods themselves. Good luck :D


He is a time god. He has started manipulating religious teachers of the Norse Pantheon to sneak him in there as a LESSER God. His goal is to be stuck to the tree of Yasgradsill (I also can't spell). He has a few hundred follwers right now plus a few priests.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:16 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
Wow. Well, if nothing else, he's an interesting character, though I wonder if he'll survive his crucificion on the World Tree. He'd be awful vulnerable at that point and it sounds like he makes enemies as readily as followers. Just food for thought.


I don't think anyone survives the crucification. I was pretty sure that was the point. You die and are transformed and/or given knowledge. Sounds like a good turning point for a story to me.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:38 pm
  

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IF is the opperative word ... i think it has something to do with rolling against your coma/death roll ... with possible negatives. after all .. look at all the various magic items that would be lying about at the base of the tree or where ever you choose to get stuck.

while it would be interesting to 'steal' said items .. personally ... i think the serpent would have something to say about that. it does have to eat as well.

otherwise? ... a 'god complex' yeah .. understandable .. but actually granting powers? .. kinda hard to picture it myself. and instead of the norse pantheon .. why not one of his own creation?

his insanity would drive him to do that instead, well my thinking on the topic would have him try to start up his own .. even if it means he ... 'borrows' priests from other pantheons ...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:06 pm
  

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What the character did was got the person to start spreading his name thru the Norse pantheon, as he convinced the guy that he was a forgotten member of the pantheon. Right now he is just trying to get as many worshippers as possible.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:48 pm
  

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Well, one thing to recall is that he's likely annoying people who are currently in the Norse pantheon by inserting himself into the family, as it were... especially if his deeds reflect badly upon the Aesir and Vanir.

And, of course, he's claiming their enemies as his own, so there's always the giants who might move against an upstart godling...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:53 pm
  

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Of course, if he does his research and promises Thor help when Ragnarok comes he might have an ally.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:14 pm
  

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In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:55 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.


since the guy was turning to us for ideas instead of just going to the books himself, odds are he's not going to be following the letter of the law.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:26 pm
  

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Marrowlight wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.


since the guy was turning to us for ideas instead of just going to the books himself, odds are he's not going to be following the letter of the law.


Exactly. The letter of the law has its times, and I would like to stray from the book...mostly because I want to bring this campaign to epic levels.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:11 am
  

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Aaryq wrote:
Marrowlight wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
In Dragons and Gods, the theshhold for attaining true godhood is 10,000 True beleivers.


since the guy was turning to us for ideas instead of just going to the books himself, odds are he's not going to be following the letter of the law.


Exactly. The letter of the law has its times, and I would like to stray from the book...mostly because I want to bring this campaign to epic levels.


But it's helpful to know the letter of the laws one is breaking, after all. ;-)

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:24 pm
  

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wow, looks like I'm alone on this one, but it's not the first time, so here goes:
The God Complex is an insanity. I don't see the need to reward someone for being insane by granting them God-hood. I also don't think that ascension to immortality and attaining god-hood really fits into Rifts (as the previous rules mentioned come from PF-based books...)
Rewarding the player for playing in character is one thing, but think about this...it's an insanity...if it was something that really happened, it wouldn't be an insanity. That's like saying just because I believe in my heart of hearts that I can fly, then I should eventually be given the ability to fly, and I just don't buy it. If this was something truly achievable, others would be actively striving for it, not just acquiring it because of a mental affliction.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:38 pm
  

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Torquemada wrote:
I also don't think that ascension to immortality and attaining god-hood really fits into Rifts (as the previous rules mentioned come from PF-based books...)


Given how squishy even gods are in Rifts, I don't see why not.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:05 pm
  

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As far as gradually up-powering him in the game, I'd say base the number of "worshippers" he has and directly correlate that to his power. The more people he has directly contributing to his energy (via intentional or unintentional PPE ritual) the more godly and powerful he will feel.

As someone else suggested, he could also commune with a real god and be granted powers in exchange for his pledge of loyalty or something.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:45 pm
  

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Torquemada wrote:
wow, looks like I'm alone on this one, but it's not the first time, so here goes:
The God Complex is an insanity. I don't see the need to reward someone for being insane by granting them God-hood. I also don't think that ascension to immortality and attaining god-hood really fits into Rifts (as the previous rules mentioned come from PF-based books...)
Rewarding the player for playing in character is one thing, but think about this...it's an insanity...if it was something that really happened, it wouldn't be an insanity. That's like saying just because I believe in my heart of hearts that I can fly, then I should eventually be given the ability to fly, and I just don't buy it. If this was something truly achievable, others would be actively striving for it, not just acquiring it because of a mental affliction.


If teh character wasn't doing anything to actively promote him/herself as a god, I'd agree. But, if he is actually gaining followers, and people are worshipping him, I have to go with the becoming a God. And since that's the case, that's what gets my vote.

Now, as has been said here on the boards, and in books, etc, when you worship, you send some of your PPE to what you're worshipping (of course, you don't ever actually see this side of it, even is playing a magic user or a priest.. hrmm... I see a house rule in the making!).

Now, as such, that PPE goes to the God. Or in this case, the would-be God. Who spends the PPE. Now, if he's not spending this PPE for the worshippers, the worshippers may not worship for too long.

As such, I'd start with a simple 1ppe per 10 worshippers. But of course, he's going to have to be doing things for them to keep worshipping him.

As such, he's going to be burning some of his OWN PPE until he gets more followers. Which means that he is probably going to be spending more than he's making, at least for a while. I'd say at 1,000 worshippers, he can get 1ppe per 5worshippers. And at 5,000 worshippers, he can figure out how to invest spells and such through a priest. Not the actual prayers and miracles, just basic spells. He can also start having the priest gather the PPE from worshippers (like a focus for their worship), and just gather it from him. At 10,000 worshippers, he can figure out how to answer prayers and miracles. That's when he can actually start being more "godly".

At least, that's all IMHO

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:47 pm
  

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How exactly do you spend PPE on your followers? It's not as if you can redeem it for prizes...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:56 pm
  

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Lucky wrote:
How exactly do you spend PPE on your followers? It's not as if you can redeem it for prizes...


Casting spells for them, doing things for them. In other words, keeping them happy. Basically, until you can start having priests and whatnot, YOU have to do all the tasks you'd have THEM do. Healing, preaching, helping, blessing. etc etc etc. of course, the problem with that is people see you as a person, not a god.

Although, I did have one player who worked around all that. He was a mind mage...who went by the name "Hastor, the King in yellow". He worshipped the God Azirine. Which was his true name. So he acted like a priest. Which means people saw him as a priest. So everything he did in the name of the "God", was just that much more convincing.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:06 pm
  

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So what if he has a god complex? it's an insanity. He may draw attention from a god who likes to mess with mortals. He either admires his moxy or wants to teach him a lesson

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:56 pm
  

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I can see ways of putting him on the PATH to godhood, but actually granting full godhood is something that takes gods thousands of years...unless you want to pull some kind of temporal loop craziness.

The table for a Lord Magus for thier progression as they level up would be a place I'd start him on. Have him drop his current class and go the equivilant of a Lord Magus and have xp based on the number of followers he gains. An aspiring god doesn't spend time with mortal concerns anyway. As far as having tacked to the world tree...I think the Norse would have an issue with a potential rival trying to gain power on thier turf.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:48 pm
  

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sawg138 wrote:
Torquemada wrote:
wow, looks like I'm alone on this one, but it's not the first time, so here goes:
The God Complex is an insanity. I don't see the need to reward someone for being insane by granting them God-hood. I also don't think that ascension to immortality and attaining god-hood really fits into Rifts (as the previous rules mentioned come from PF-based books...)
Rewarding the player for playing in character is one thing, but think about this...it's an insanity...if it was something that really happened, it wouldn't be an insanity. That's like saying just because I believe in my heart of hearts that I can fly, then I should eventually be given the ability to fly, and I just don't buy it. If this was something truly achievable, others would be actively striving for it, not just acquiring it because of a mental affliction.

I'd agree except there is magic and the like here. So I see no reason an insane person couldn't through his and others' belief become a god. Magic is about belief, after all.


Just because you have PPE doesn't mean you would know how to use it, or even be able to tap its power. There would at the LEAST have to be some sort of racial or occupational basis for this guy being able to use PPE to perform some type of magic or use any of his new godly abilities

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 3:32 am
  

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Magic is a skill. Your dad gives you a car for your 16th birthday. That doesn't mean you know how to drive.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:44 pm
  

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not a fair question, since there is nothing to indicate whether they were always gods, and therefore imbued with certain knowledge skills and abilities since inception, or whether they ascended to godhood like this character is attempting. Notable exception being the Dragon gods like Styphon, but as we all know, dragons are supernatural creatures of magic born with the full knowledge of how to use magic.

I stand by my first response: This is an insanity, not a path to divinity.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:32 pm
  

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Torquemada wrote:
not a fair question, since there is nothing to indicate whether they were always gods, and therefore imbued with certain knowledge skills and abilities since inception, or whether they ascended to godhood like this character is attempting. Notable exception being the Dragon gods like Styphon, but as we all know, dragons are supernatural creatures of magic born with the full knowledge of how to use magic.

I stand by my first response: This is an insanity, not a path to divinity.



Right. Like there arn't Mad Gods :)

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:50 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Torquemada wrote:
not a fair question, since there is nothing to indicate whether they were always gods, and therefore imbued with certain knowledge skills and abilities since inception, or whether they ascended to godhood like this character is attempting. Notable exception being the Dragon gods like Styphon, but as we all know, dragons are supernatural creatures of magic born with the full knowledge of how to use magic.

I stand by my first response: This is an insanity, not a path to divinity.



Right. Like there arn't Mad Gods :)


Beyond which, at the end of the day, the GM isn't asking for your approval on whether or not he should do it, he's asking for guidelines on how to do it.

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:21 am
  

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well, gee, thanks. I hadn't realized that. Now my whole opinion's changed. lol. seriously, though, I realize that, but since this thread has turned into a debate on my opinion, I stand to defend it. S'ok, though, I've been in the unpopular pool before...I know how to swim ;^)

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Let the Righteous man go forth and bring Judgement to the land, and to those found wanting, let him be the Harbinger of Doom.


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:41 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:22 pm
Posts: 4890
Location: At the forefront of the War between Evil & Good.
Comment: Listen very carefully, human...the fact that I even allow you to speak directly to me is a gift I bestow upon you. You do not order me. You beg for my appreciation and then wait to see if I choose to bestow it upon you.
Torquemada wrote:
well, gee, thanks. I hadn't realized that. Now my whole opinion's changed. lol. seriously, though, I realize that, but since this thread has turned into a debate on my opinion, I stand to defend it. S'ok, though, I've been in the unpopular pool before...I know how to swim ;^)


The point wasn't to change your opinion...it was to remind you that it was never asked for by the OP, so don't expect to change his.

But thanks for the woe is my defense there -- Truth be told, I hadn't realized the whole thread had turned against you. Hell, I barely even noticed who you were tbh. Trust me, while I can't speak for the others I can promise I never was 'against' you and was completely focused on the OP and his goals, not those who would detract from it needlessly.

And with that said, to the OP -- did the rest of the group feel it was cool to push the game into this avenue? It's been a week or so now.

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 Post subject: Saging it?
Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:02 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:47 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Naruni Enterprises, Plotting the destruction of ChiTown... I have my army
Comment: 'I'm no leader. I do what I have to do…sometimes people come with me.'
I say the ladder (possibley) is Mortal -> Magic User -> Sage -> Godling -> God

That's the least I can come up with concerning what I have at my disposal

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~King Leviathan Blackhart III
"Killing a man makes you a murderer, killing many makes you a conqurer, and killing them all makes you a god."
~Mega Deth


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:00 pm
  

Magic is about belief, according to the rules. If you 100% believe you can perform magic, you can. If you don't believe or you only have 99% belief, you can't.

While you do need to learn the spells or get really good rolls to create your own, just believing you are capable will be sufficient (see above) to get you started.

Insanity is a really good way of getting that 100% confidence. Nothing like a good delusion to tell people to take their "falsehoods" and stick it, since you know the truth.

So, that would make it easy for the mindset needed for a character to change classes or dual class (also allowed via the rules) and start working with PPE. From there, little bitty baby steps towards forming a cult and syphoning their PPE (also in the rules) to perform bigger and better spells, and so on.

So, it's doable. And it doesn't have to take that much time to amass the needed followers. Heck, look at L Ron Hubbard. And if the character does convince some of the other gods that he is simply a forgotten but legitimate god, that definitely deserves a creativity kudos in some manner (quickening the process, some of the abilities early, extra abilities) as that god's adherents are likely to know of the "recovered" god, and recognition allows for a tiny bit of belief.

As far as the original question goes, I think that Goliath has really, really good ideas and details. That sounds very workable and fair to both GM and player.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 2:14 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:49 pm
Posts: 868
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Comment: Fortune favors the bold.
Marrowlight wrote:
And with that said, to the OP -- did the rest of the group feel it was cool to push the game into this avenue? It's been a week or so now.


We are still getting used to it. We recognize him as a person of great power and potential, but I wouldn't call us "devout" followers yet. Keep in mind, most of us are bloodthirsy pirates interested only in money and debauchery.

It might work, if this character (or a series of events) is able to give us some path to follow. As of right now, My char is the captain of a pirate ship and not much concerned with any matters spiritual in nature. He definitely respects the mage for his power, but also realizes that he is likely insane. With a bit of subtle manipulation mixed with hypnotic suggestion or something over time.... who knows.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:08 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:53 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Currently Va
And the fact he hasn't been injured yet can't hurt. :D


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:12 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:15 pm
Posts: 15
Sounds like a cool player to have.

Here are a few ideas. As he is doing a bang up job of roleplaying the normal reward is additional exp, so he will rise in power by leveling up.

He has attempted to insert himself into the norse pantheon, so instead of him really gaining power, maybe he belives he is gaining power while in fact Loki is messing around with him and encourageing his maddness.

Maybe he will gain power for real if you are so inclined. If so I would start with some things that while powerful are not nessesaryily unbalanceing. So first maybe he gains immortality and stops ageing. Next he might gain the ability to really hear the prayers of his followers (as much curse as boon most of the time). He might gain the ability to speak any language spoken by one who worships him. He might gain the ability to call the bifrost bridge and ascend into the heavens of the norse.

But in the end it would likely be most fun to leave his godhood as an open question for awhile and get everyone guessing. :)

Keep in mind that gaining converts isn't keeping them. If the player is not attentive to the needs of his flock they will stray. Rare indeed is the person who can be convinced to take up a new religon and forsake thier old belifes, and yet be loyal to thier new faith when it is challenged.

Have you played with the idea that maybe he really is a forgotten god? Some thig to think on.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:22 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:23 pm
Posts: 618
Location: McKenna, WA
I think that what I have now will be as follows:

Roll per session to see how many follwers he gains
Slight PPE increases per level and a % of it occuring mid level
Freak surges of PPE if his people sacrifice something (he may or may not know how to control such a massive influx of PPE and a spell might randomly pop off)
Increased spell knowledge per level
As he notices this, his insanity will become more and more powerful
Eventually he will be unable to be cured from the insanity
Gods giving him subtle hints or aid

Things he needs to watch out for:
Martyrs in massive numbers (if a large number of his followers are slain, he will gain another PPE surge but then his overall PPE will go down)
Loss of massive numbers (people loose faith or are die a non-martyr's death) will result in a loss of PPE
Angry gods rival to the gods that are friendly to him

More on this later

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