falling damage

[Nekira Sudacne]

a group im in had a disagreement over whether a natural MDC creature, thrown off a 1000 ft cliff would survive or not...

the damage it takes is SDC and its an MDC creature so would it take SDC or MDC damage from the fall???

they take SDC damage.

SDC damage that does more than 100 points of damage does the equivlent of 1 MD.

so a 1000 foot fall would do 1d6 MD to a MDC creature.

[Subjugator]

Well well well! For the first time, I actually agree with Nekira!

I don't. We had this discussion a long time ago (I don't know if Nekira was involved), but my point is that when you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

Consider that when you call from a huge height, even the parts of your body that do not hit the ground (or are not part of the significant impact) will break. That's because your body compresses against itself.

Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well well well! For the first time, I actually agree with Nekira!

I don't. We had this discussion a long time ago (I don't know if Nekira was involved), but my point is that when you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

fine. that dosn't make it do any more damage. falling damage is the same rather you land on dirt or a glitter boy.

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually, just the other day I found an official answer to this in one of the books. Unfortunately, I forget which book and what the answer was.

IIRC, it was something like 1 MD per 10' or something.
I'll look it up when I get home.

[Rimmerdal]

I think what he meant is internal injuries. I don't know how that will affect a MDC beast.

Why not? MDC beasts have internal organs.

[Rimmerdal]

When you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

This would only apply if you are falling onto MDC ground or an MDC structure. Otherwise, you'd just put a REALLY big hole in the ground, sorta. More damage would be done to the ground than you.

or water...landing on water should be treated as MDC...to MDC, and SDC to SDC.

[Subjugator]

Well well well! For the first time, I actually agree with Nekira!

I don't. We had this discussion a long time ago (I don't know if Nekira was involved), but my point is that when you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

fine. that dosn't make it do any more damage. falling damage is the same rather you land on dirt or a glitter boy.

According to the rules, maybe, but according to logic, no.

Also, I'm not saying they're landing on a Glitter Boy. I'm saying they're landing on dirt, but that the impact to themselves will cause MD to themselves.

In other words, a Death's Head Transport that slams into the ground will be demolished.

Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well well well! For the first time, I actually agree with Nekira!

I don't. We had this discussion a long time ago (I don't know if Nekira was involved), but my point is that when you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

fine. that dosn't make it do any more damage. falling damage is the same rather you land on dirt or a glitter boy.

According to the rules, maybe, but according to logic, no.

Also, I'm not saying they're landing on a Glitter Boy. I'm saying they're landing on dirt, but that the impact to themselves will cause MD to themselves.

In other words, a Death's Head Transport that slams into the ground will be demolished.

Sub

why would falling into an MDC object whatsoever do more damage than falling on the ground in the first place?

[Subjugator]

When you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

This would only apply if you are falling onto MDC ground or an MDC structure. Otherwise, you'd just put a REALLY big hole in the ground, sorta. More damage would be done to the ground than you.

This would NOT only apply if you were falling into MDC ground or an MDC structure.

It is velocity that makes one make the hole, not what one is made of. A (comparatively) soft bullet will make a hole through hardened steel if fired out of a sufficiently powerful gun.

As such, a human MDC being would reach a maximum speed of around 300MPH if falling from a great height and actually intending to speed up. When they hit the ground they'd stop pretty quickly. During that sudden stop, the top of their body would squish the bottom of their body and they'd have massive internal injuries as a result.

This is a matter of plain physics. Drop a tank (which was ruled by Wayne Breaux as a minor MDC structure) from 200' in the air and it's DEMOLISHED, even though it's harder than the ground itself.

Sub

[Subjugator]

When you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

This would only apply if you are falling onto MDC ground or an MDC structure. Otherwise, you'd just put a REALLY big hole in the ground, sorta. More damage would be done to the ground than you.

or water...landing on water should be treated as MDC...to MDC, and SDC to SDC.

At high speeds, ANY material acts as water does at high speeds. The damage done is increased by the velocity, not the density of the material struck.

Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

When you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

This would only apply if you are falling onto MDC ground or an MDC structure. Otherwise, you'd just put a REALLY big hole in the ground, sorta. More damage would be done to the ground than you.

This would NOT only apply if you were falling into MDC ground or an MDC structure.

It is velocity that makes one make the hole, not what one is made of. A (comparatively) soft bullet will make a hole through hardened steel if fired out of a sufficiently powerful gun.

As such, a human MDC being would reach a maximum speed of around 300MPH if falling from a great height and actually intending to speed up. When they hit the ground they'd stop pretty quickly. During that sudden stop, the top of their body would squish the bottom of their body and they'd have massive internal injuries as a result.

This is a matter of plain physics. Drop a tank (which was ruled by Wayne Breaux as a minor MDC structure) from 200' in the air and it's DEMOLISHED, even though it's harder than the ground itself.

Sub

well remember, weight has it's own damage in addition to hight, which makes up the difference

[Rimmerdal]

When you have a sudden stop, you are crashing into yourself as much as you are the ground, which would mean that you are in fact running into an MD structure.

This would only apply if you are falling onto MDC ground or an MDC structure. Otherwise, you'd just put a REALLY big hole in the ground, sorta. More damage would be done to the ground than you.

or water...landing on water should be treated as MDC...to MDC, and SDC to SDC.

At high speeds, ANY material acts as water does at high speeds. The damage done is increased by the velocity, not the density of the material struck.

Sub

I was thinking of the myth busters xperiments on bullets and the effects water on the bullet as they passed through water, but that's another thread.

back to the regular thread...

[Nekira Sudacne]

really, when you get to palladiums falling damage rules, there's one inconsistancy that reigns over all others.

why isn't Terminal Velocity taken into account?

after a cretain point how high you are won't increase damage any further.

[Subjugator]

really, when you get to palladiums falling damage rules, there's one inconsistancy that reigns over all others.

why isn't Terminal Velocity taken into account?

after a cretain point how high you are won't increase damage any further.

Actually, at points after which terminal velocity will be reached you may have even better chances of survival. You could actually have long enough to calm down and start to convert your falling into angular rather than vertical momentum and land on some ice plant or something.

According to a friend of mine that's what they tell skydivers to do in the event of a chute failure. He met a guy that did it and lived (the guy had a TITANIC road rash).

Sub

[Killer Cyborg]

This is a matter of plain physics. Drop a tank (which was ruled by Wayne Breaux as a minor MDC structure) from 200' in the air and it's DEMOLISHED, even though it's harder than the ground itself.

Sub

Tanks were only ruled to be MDC structures in MDC environments.
So that argument doesn't work.

[Subjugator]

This is a matter of plain physics. Drop a tank (which was ruled by Wayne Breaux as a minor MDC structure) from 200' in the air and it's DEMOLISHED, even though it's harder than the ground itself.

Sub

Tanks were only ruled to be MDC structures in MDC environments.
So that argument doesn't work.

Why doesn't it?

Again, the physics behind it remain the same. The damage caused is not because of the impact to the ground, but the internal stresses on the object itself. The tank will crash into itself as much as it will the ground. The sudden stop will make the armor have sudden compression and the molecules within will slam into each other at high velocity, causing significant damage.

Sub

[Dead Boy]

really, when you get to palladiums falling damage rules, there's one inconsistancy that reigns over all others.

why isn't Terminal Velocity taken into account?

after a cretain point how high you are won't increase damage any further.

I agree. That's why I house ruled it so that Terminal Velocity restricts damage to being equal to half the character’s weight including any body armor and equipment on their person, or power armor. Because this can easily still kill, I deemed it that a Roll with Impact v an assumed roll to hit of 14 is apporpriate.

[Killer Cyborg]

This is a matter of plain physics. Drop a tank (which was ruled by Wayne Breaux as a minor MDC structure) from 200' in the air and it's DEMOLISHED, even though it's harder than the ground itself.

Sub

Tanks were only ruled to be MDC structures in MDC environments.
So that argument doesn't work.

Why doesn't it?

Again, the physics behind it remain the same. The damage caused is not because of the impact to the ground, but the internal stresses on the object itself. The tank will crash into itself as much as it will the ground. The sudden stop will make the armor have sudden compression and the molecules within will slam into each other at high velocity, causing significant damage.

Sub

1. Neither you, nor I, nor anybody else in this world, has ever seen an MDC tank impact the ground. So you cannot make the assumption that a fall would damage one.
2. MDC material hitting MDC material (or impacting on itself, etc) is irrelevent. It's the force involved that matters.
That's why a normal human can't take a MDC club and inflict Mega-Damage with it; insufficient force.

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually, just the other day I found an official answer to this in one of the books. Unfortunately, I forget which book and what the answer was.

IIRC, it was something like 1 MD per 10' or something.
I'll look it up when I get home.

Xiticix Invasion, p. 16
Talking about falling off of bridges in Xiticix hives/cities:
"Damage is 3d6 SDC/Hit Points or damage per story of height, or one MD per every three stories for Mega-Damage creatures. Plus fallen victims, even MDC characters, lose initiative and two melee actions..."

[Thinyser]

There are three factors which determine the amount of force applied to a falling object when it hits the ground.

Speed
Hardness of the ground
Mass of the object

Speed is mostly dictated by the height from which the object fell, as a ping pong ball falls at roughly the same speed as a brick. So assuming it is a free fall, the speed is based upon the height fallen from. There is terminal velocity to contend with, but that is more of a cap on damage than anything else.

only in a vaccum will a pingpong ball fall at the same speed as a brick. That said terminal velocity is reached after only about a 400 foot drop for person shaped objects (throuhg normal atmosphere). Terminal velocity is simply where the slowing effect of air friction exactly matches the acceleration of gravity. At very high altitudes the air is VERY thin and offers very little resistance, so little that a person can actually fall at or over the speed of sound.

Saying what you fall on doesn't matter is like saying playing tackle football on pavement is the same as playing on grass. It isn't true. Hardness of the ground affects how quickly the object stops, which increases the amount of force exerted upon it. Going from 10m/s to 0m/s in 1s results in a deceleration of 10m/s/s while doing so in 0.01s results in a deceleration of 1000m/s/s. Since force = mass x acceleration, the second situation will result in 100x the force.

Actually at the speeds at which you will impact at terminal velocity for a human the surface doesnt really make a difference. Sure the math might say that the decleration upon hitting concrete from 400' is 356 Gs (just made that up) and that hitting water from 400' is 173 Gs (also made up) but the relevance of it is moot because either way the person is dead. Your tackle football on pavement versus grass analogy is not apt as the forces we are dealing with are much higher and are deadly (to SDC things despite the surface impacted...MDC however is a nother ball of wax entirely)

Since force = mass x acceleration, mass is a big part of the equation and should be taken into account when falling damage is calculated. The adage "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" is true. Something that weighs 10x as much should take 10x the damage when it hits the ground. This leads to the following conclusion:

Agreed. This is a valid point for the object impacted as well as the object falling. We can see this in action with projectiles that travel at the same velocity but different weights... heavier is more damaging. For the damage to the object look at an adult versus a toddler falling on thier butt... tot takes no damage while the adult can break thier tailbone or atleast severly bruse thier glutes.

But again we are talking about a person falling at terminal velocity... they are dead weather they are a 20 pound tot or a 200 ound man. Now would a 200 lb MDC "man" die if impacting the ground at terminal veloicity?

1d6 SDC per 10ft is a fine rule for human weight objects. However, bigger objects like that tank are going to take a whole lot more damage. I would divide weight by about 200 lbs and multiply the damage by that when calculating damage. Therefore, a forty ton tank that falls 200ft is going to take 20d6SDC x 400 damage, or 8d6x10 MD. That would destroy a current day tank. A RIFTS tank would probably survive because it is made of stronger materials. Of course, the crew inside would take falling damage of 20d6 SDC and could take additional damage from objects inside of the tank.

The whole 1d6 per 10 feet is silly because of terminal veloicity and besides this is meant for "soft" SDC falling objects not "hard" SDC falling objects or MDC (hard or soft) objects.
Drop a 2" diameter steel ball from 400' feet into a salt flat, did it get destroyed, dented, one sided flatened, damaged at all? No.
Drop a 2" ball of balistics gel from 400' onto the same salt flat, did it get destroyed? Yep.

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually, just the other day I found an official answer to this in one of the books. Unfortunately, I forget which book and what the answer was.

IIRC, it was something like 1 MD per 10' or something.
I'll look it up when I get home.

Xiticix Invasion, p. 16
Talking about falling off of bridges in Xiticix hives/cities:
"Damage is 3d6 SDC/Hit Points or damage per story of height, or one MD per every three stories for Mega-Damage creatures. Plus fallen victims, even MDC characters, lose initiative and two melee actions..."

Which is a real hoot for Titan Juicers...as they're still SDC beings you can have them do base jumping off the World Trade Center with no parachute and all they'll have upon landing is a road rash.

Well, not any more.

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually, just the other day I found an official answer to this in one of the books. Unfortunately, I forget which book and what the answer was.

IIRC, it was something like 1 MD per 10' or something.
I'll look it up when I get home.

Xiticix Invasion, p. 16
Talking about falling off of bridges in Xiticix hives/cities:
"Damage is 3d6 SDC/Hit Points or damage per story of height, or one MD per every three stories for Mega-Damage creatures. Plus fallen victims, even MDC characters, lose initiative and two melee actions..."

The damage you receive was from falling onto uneven ground and sharp spikes. Though I did find in the GMG (first printing) on pg 28 under miscellaneous: falling 1d6 per 10 feet. Didn't find anything for MD beings as of yet.

It doesn't say anything about the damage being from uneven ground or sharp spikes, but I can go with that theory since the 3d6 SDC damage is 3x the normal falling damage.

What this means for MDC beings is that they likely need 3x the fall to inflict that amount of damage if they hit normal terrain.
Which means a 90'-100' fall would inflict 1 MD.

[Nekira Sudacne]

that makes some sense, but......

Just one question to those who believe that a MDC creature should be able to survive a 100 ft fall with minimal damage or no damage at all. If a MDC creature swallow an SDC explosive into itself, for whatever reason, would the explosion kill the beast?

Nope. they'd barely feel it. of course, it's likely to give them some trouble passing it though the other end

[Killer Cyborg]

that makes some sense, but......

Just one question to those who believe that a MDC creature should be able to survive a 100 ft fall with minimal damage or no damage at all. If a MDC creature swallow an SDC explosive into itself, for whatever reason, would the explosion kill the beast?

If it's a true supernatural creature, then probably not.

I'd likely run it as doing 3-10x normal damage (depending on circumstances), but that's still not going to be that impressive against powerful MDC creatures.
A stick of dynamite, for example, does 1d4x10 SDC. At 10x damage, that's still only 1d4 MD.
Of course, there would be internal bleeding that could eventually kill the creature, but most MDC creatures have Bio-Regeneration that would take care of that problem.

[Nekira Sudacne]

that makes some sense, but......

Just one question to those who believe that a MDC creature should be able to survive a 100 ft fall with minimal damage or no damage at all. If a MDC creature swallow an SDC explosive into itself, for whatever reason, would the explosion kill the beast?

If it's a true supernatural creature, then probably not.

I'd likely run it as doing 3-10x normal damage (depending on circumstances), but that's still not going to be that impressive against powerful MDC creatures.
A stick of dynamite, for example, does 1d4x10 SDC. At 10x damage, that's still only 1d4 MD.
Of course, there would be internal bleeding that could eventually kill the creature, but most MDC creatures have Bio-Regeneration that would take care of that problem.

I agree. I believe I read sonwhere that even a one had MD armor on and jumped on a SDC Grenade it would still mess that person up.

no, the exsample was an SDC character with like 90 SDC and jumping on a grenade taht only does 40 SDC, he still has his guts blown out and dies.

in the same section, it says MDC armor and MDC characters don't have that problem, nad if an MDC character jumps on an MDC grenade, it only does standard damage because MDC skin is like having armor on all the time.

[Temporalmage]

The ground is MDC. If an MDC club is struck with sufficiant force against an MDC creature the creature takes damge. Falling from a great height is deffinatly sufficiant force, and thus the MDC creature would take damage. In fact, the same as a normal human would: 1D6 per 10 foot fallen. Consider that to most supernatural/ magic creatures that's like stubbing a toe, and they'll heal it in a matter of moments, so it's no big deal.
On the other hand, a supernatural creature thrown from a plane at 30,000 feet had better hope to learn to fly/ teleport/ etc before impact.

[Nekira Sudacne]

that makes some sense, but......

Just one question to those who believe that a MDC creature should be able to survive a 100 ft fall with minimal damage or no damage at all. If a MDC creature swallow an SDC explosive into itself, for whatever reason, would the explosion kill the beast?

If it's a true supernatural creature, then probably not.

I'd likely run it as doing 3-10x normal damage (depending on circumstances), but that's still not going to be that impressive against powerful MDC creatures.
A stick of dynamite, for example, does 1d4x10 SDC. At 10x damage, that's still only 1d4 MD.
Of course, there would be internal bleeding that could eventually kill the creature, but most MDC creatures have Bio-Regeneration that would take care of that problem.

I agree. I believe I read sonwhere that even a one had MD armor on and jumped on a SDC Grenade it would still mess that person up.

no, the exsample was an SDC character with like 90 SDC and jumping on a grenade taht only does 40 SDC, he still has his guts blown out and dies.

in the same section, it says MDC armor and MDC characters don't have that problem, nad if an MDC character jumps on an MDC grenade, it only does standard damage because MDC skin is like having armor on all the time.

Yes that is true...I found what I read..MD armor does not take damge..so a MDC creature doesn't either..what i did read was that if the sdc grenade did enough damage the person inside the armor could possibly take impact damge from bouncing around in the armor.

nope, nothing on that. i'm afraid your mistaken.