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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:24 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 343
I want to express my complete dismay at the outrageous decision you have just communicated to state you are fulfilling US preorders and then even worse supplying product to US Retailers, before completing your promised obligations to Oversea backers.

What is up ? Our money helped support this project get off the ground - did those Gen Com preorders do the same? - but it seems it is not good enough to ensure you keep your promises. I do not and will not accept the tautology of oh its only US retailers, you still might get yours before overseas retailers.

You have consistently up to now shared a schedule based on the receipt of containrs and we were already at the back as you could not work a smarter way to do the necessary paperwork. Do you realise how annoying and condescending it is to find we have been bumped back again so you can get a apparent big cash fix from the US stores over Thanksgiving. All these boxed sets should have been earmarked and palletted to await overseas shipment.

Add to this that you cannot even update us on the KS site about this, you have tried to sneak it in through the back door.

It leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and I am seriously considering raising this as a complaint with Kickstarter as you have patently broken your contract with us.

Warning: Claiming Palladium is trying to sneak things past Backers. ie: Spreading lies of Palladium. - NMI


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:45 pm
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

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actually, they didn't have a 'contract' with you. they said the backers would get their stuff before retail did.

this they have done. all the US backers have had their stuff sent off, so they released it to US retail. overseas backers will get their stuff before overseas retail in their countries get any.

they are following their promise.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:16 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 343
Sorry Glitterboy, but this is the mealy mouthed justification I would expect them to use, pure tautolgy or lawyerspeak.

The promise made and reinforced throughout the KS process is that all backers would get their product first, at no point up to now has their been a distinction between those backers and where they were

Simply put this is a classless, unsavoury act by a company who have seen that a lot of money was tied up with pledged orders (somewhere around 1500 Battlecry's and above) but desperately wanted to make money at the height of the US season. The Gencon vote was an earlier attempt that backfired on them, but this time they know they have the boxes - actually our boxes - and models to sell.

Not updating this on the KS page was another underhanded move - if it is plain and honest why not tell everyone?

Whatever way you want to dress it, PB have just given everyone outside the US the big finger.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:57 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
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Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
wilycoyote wrote:
Sorry Glitterboy, but this is the mealy mouthed justification I would expect them to use, pure tautolgy or lawyerspeak.

The promise made and reinforced throughout the KS process is that all backers would get their product first, at no point up to now has their been a distinction between those backers and where they were

Simply put this is a classless, unsavoury act by a company who have seen that a lot of money was tied up with pledged orders (somewhere around 1500 Battlecry's and above) but desperately wanted to make money at the height of the US season. The Gencon vote was an earlier attempt that backfired on them, but this time they know they have the boxes - actually our boxes - and models to sell.

Not updating this on the KS page was another underhanded move - if it is plain and honest why not tell everyone?

Whatever way you want to dress it, PB have just given everyone outside the US the big finger.


Indeed.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:15 pm
  

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Explorer

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 8:09 am
Posts: 181
To be clear; the promise was that the backers would have their stuff SHIPPED before the retail/pre-orders and such.

I mean, they could ship the last aussie order on monday, and ship a local pre-order tuesday, and that pre-order would still have it "in hand" before the shipment around the globe....

Fact is, they didn't even do that. But why is anyone surprised they broke another promise?

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:17 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 5010
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Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
wilycoyote wrote:
The promise made and reinforced throughout the KS process is that all backers would get their product first, at no point up to now has their been a distinction between those backers and where they were [...]

While I will most definitely not defend Palladium having failed several times over to keep their promise of getting the product to the backers before it goes to retail, I'll say this much... from my own personal, and professional, experience:

At the best of times, arranging international shipping can be a spectacular pain in the arse. Palladium is (unwisely, IMO) handling all of the shipping themselves rather than farming it out to fulfillment house, a move that is likely dragging the shipping process out to a comical extent. If they're filling out all of their customs declarations by hand, it could be costing them a half hour a box... possibly more, depending on what country they're going to. They likely left international backers 'till last because of the extra time it takes to prepare each shipment to ensure that it doesn't get held up in customs.

(I could tell you horror stories about wasting upwards of an hour trying to get the clowns at FedEx or UPS to properly prepare a simple express envelope full of line art for shipment from the US to Canada... or a couple about packages getting opened and searched because of misspellings or a slightly wrong category of item being listed on the customs declaration.)


wilycoyote wrote:
Whatever way you want to dress it, PB have just given everyone outside the US the big finger.

A Robotech project not living up to its lofty promises? How very... precedented. :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:13 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:38 pm
Posts: 259
jreece06 wrote:
To be clear; the promise was that the backers would have their stuff SHIPPED before the retail/pre-orders and such.
Actually, that's incorrect. The initial promise was that it would be "RECEIVED by backers first". The change to "SHIPPED to backers first" was a recent change, subtly added later.

From my Dakka post at the end of April.
Quote:
But then there's this one, which is most definitely breaking the letter of the law.
"In the end, you, our Kickstarter supporters, will be the first to receive a wonderful product that we hope will make you grin and provide endless hours of enjoyment. ". Update 125, Jan 10th. I can't see how they can lawyer-weasel out of that one. Can't even blame it on Wayne, as the entire post was apparently written by Kevin.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:50 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 343
Thank you Morgan, I have kept copies of a lot of the updates and announcements somehow knowing like this would happen.

Like 1984, PB and some of their supporters like to rewrite history to fit the latest facts.

This is simply a cash in to get some monies in and sadly does seem to hint that despite all of the funding they are struggling to fulfil the latter part of this project.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:34 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 am
Posts: 176
Mind if I ask what you paid for shipping?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:20 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TagsPB wrote:
Mind if I ask what you paid for shipping?


Why does it matter?

If he got a Battle Cry, that was $30, a Showdown or Reckless was $50, and any other combination (3 or 5+ BC's) was more.

Which was paid in full over a year and a half ago, plus the considerable cost of the tiers themselves (which also included some funds for shipping as well).

As an international double reckless myself, I paid $100 US for shipping alone, so presumably around $120-140.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:27 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 343
TagsPB I am in for showdown abnd extras so I will let you work it out. One reason I was able to push my pledge higher was the EU Friendly shipping. VAT and customs (plus Postal Handling) can add up and take another $100 plus out of your pocket.

Iyt is simply bad practice to now turn round and say Oh sorry but....


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:31 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 46
Location: "Rest of the world". We don't matter apparently.
glitterboy2098 wrote:

(snip) ... this they have done. all the US backers have had their stuff sent off, so they released it to US retail. overseas backers will get their stuff before overseas retail in their countries get any.

they are following their promise.


You do know that the rest of the world can order off websites that aren't based in their own countries right?

Assuming Miniaturemarket do indeed get their stock for Black Friday, I would bet you my house that I could order it and have it delivered to Australia well before my KS pledge arrives.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:45 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 46
Location: "Rest of the world". We don't matter apparently.
In fact, I'm so I pissed off I just ordered a box of Regault arty pods to test the theory.

I await the results with great interest.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:48 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
That'll show 'em!

:-P

I kid, I kid. I have a sneaking suspicion those will arrive long before your backer box does, but surely you see the humour value in this as well.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:59 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 46
Location: "Rest of the world". We don't matter apparently.
Forar wrote:
That'll show 'em!

:-P

I kid, I kid. I have a sneaking suspicion those will arrive long before your backer box does, but surely you see the humour value in this as well.


I see the humour value. But I'm in the fortunate position that I have the disposable income available to prove my point that PB broke their promise, and no weasel-words and unicorn farts and jazz-hands in updates will wish away the inconvenient fact that I will have that box of Regaults in my hands before I have my KS pledge. If the opposite happens, I will be the first one on here apologizing. I won't, however, waste too much time drafting my apology post whilst I'm waiting.

Besides, I needed more artillery Regaults anyway.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:54 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 am
Posts: 176
wilycoyote wrote:
TagsPB I am in for showdown abnd extras so I will let you work it out. One reason I was able to push my pledge higher was the EU Friendly shipping. VAT and customs (plus Postal Handling) can add up and take another $100 plus out of your pocket.

Iyt is simply bad practice to now turn round and say Oh sorry but....


So you want it now......which would mean paying duties and taxes........but you don't want to wait for the shipping that would save you those.

No it's people saying we want it all.

There is no other way for you to put it. You want it your way now.

It is great to post things that as backers......only backers can see (so I can't verify them) I highly doubt Kevin or Wayne made the promises that like to be partially quoted here.

But even if they did promise no duties or taxes ... That would be before a government says otherwise. Wana guess who trumps who?

And everyone is content to say they paid for "x" and shipping for it...........even if the amount they paid in shipping won't cover the cost of it (and Palladium picks up the difference without complaint)


Feel free to whine and complain. But take it somewhere else.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:57 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 am
Posts: 176
Battle Damage wrote:
In fact, I'm so I pissed off I just ordered a box of Regault arty pods to test the theory.

I await the results with great interest.



If it is shipping before Nov 26th it is a Kickstarter selling stuff.
If it's shipping on or after....you pay the shipping, duties and any taxes assessed.
(By the way did they offer faster shipping for more money?)


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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:52 am
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:18 pm
Posts: 1323
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TagsPB wrote:
It is great to post things that as backers......only backers can see (so I can't verify them) I highly doubt Kevin or Wayne made the promises that like to be partially quoted here.


I don't believe they have posted anything as Backer Only. Most things I've seen cited have come from publicly available updates, newsletters and whatnot. Some people have noted receiving messages personally, but sometimes that was the only way to get an issue addressed.

Quote:
Feel free to whine and complain. But take it somewhere else.


If you feel someone is acting inappropriately I believe there is a "report post" option, but unless you're a mod or wish to cite a forum rule that is being broken, statements like this aren't exactly making me sympathetic to your views.

TagsPB wrote:
(By the way did they offer faster shipping for more money?)


No, they did not. At least not publicly, lest some exception be noted.

Also, there's already a store worth product in hand that is allegedly not a KS backer.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:23 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 am
Posts: 176
TagsPB wrote:
(By the way did they offer faster shipping for more money?)


No, they did not. At least not publicly, lest some exception be noted.

Also, there's already a store worth product in hand that is allegedly not a KS backer.[/quote]


If there is a store with product they are a Kickstarter or their distributor has violated a marked "do not distribute before" date, give Palladium their info.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:41 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:08 pm
Posts: 46
Location: "Rest of the world". We don't matter apparently.
TagsPB wrote:

So you want it now......which would mean paying duties and taxes........but you don't want to wait for the shipping that would save you those.

No it's people saying we want it all.

There is no other way for you to put it. You want it your way now.



No. He wants this item fulfilled, as posted on the front page FAQ of the kickstarter:

Quote:
Will International Backers have to pay VAT/customs/additional taxes?
No. We have made an arrangement with a local vendor in the UK to ship your pledge rewards from there.

This means that as a European Backer you will not be required to pay any additional VAT or import duties on your pledge reward. All that is required is the flat rate shipping fee based on your highest pledge level.

We are currently working on an EU shipping solution that will make it so that backers do not have to pay additional fees. Once we have details finalized we will post an update.

Last updated: Sat, May 4 2013 7:29 AM AEDT


TagsPB wrote:
It is great to post things that as backers......only backers can see (so I can't verify them) I highly doubt Kevin or Wayne made the promises that like to be partially quoted here.


Here's a quote direct from update #125 of the KS campaign, 10 Jan 2014. I direct your attention to the first sentence of the second last paragraph. I'd post it as a screen shot but the forum doesn't seem to allow that.

Quote:

Being a Kickstarter backer. Your Kickstarter pledge goes toward funding a special project, to make that goal a reality. The product you are to receive as a Kickstarter backer is your reward for that pledge. Palladium Books is working diligently to finish the project you have so graciously helped to fund. And you WILL get the rewards promised. Believe that, because it is absolutely true.

Yes, there are delays. No, we cannot give you an exact release date yet – at this time – but we will as soon as we can make that happen.

In the end, you, our Kickstarter supporters, will be the first to receive a wonderful product that we hope will make you grin and provide endless hours of enjoyment. Thank you for sharing our dream. You, your pledges of support and unbridled enthusiasm are very much appreciated.

Keep the faith and we’ll continue to keep you informed along the way.

– Kevin Siembieda, Publisher



And as for this:
TagsPB wrote:
Feel free to whine and complain. But take it somewhere else.

[/quote]

For someone who by their own admission is not a backer and therefore hasn't been following the trail of developments of this KS, you seem awfully quick to provide a judgement on what is whining/complaining and what is a legitimate grievance based on being told one thing and given another.

Edited for rubbish tense matching.


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