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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:58 pm
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:20 am
Posts: 47
jdarr5000 wrote:
Well got mine today now for 2 weeks of assembly



Congrats! I heard from Palladium thursday, my address was coming up funny in their system but sounds like they worked it out and my stuff ships monday! Hopefully I'll see it by friday!

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:22 am
  

Explorer

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:43 am
Posts: 118
Comment: Coiner of "Gencon Suicide Pact"
Premier wrote:
My empiric points still stand:

A. “Pre-production” was started before this year

B. The sculpts being produced have been rated pretty high on the bar from Robotech/Batreported Macross fans, Miniature Gamers and Collectors.

C. Ninja Division has been active and is still currently active with RRT.

So I hope your just looking forward to RRT as is everyone else so we can move forward. The OP is about shipping and receiving RRT, now that they are shipping, I know this as well as I helped ship, so lets get back on track shall we.

C-Out


Moving the goalposts and failing to address the relevant points.

A. Oh I agree, some sort of preproduction work was done prior to the KS campaign starting. If nothing else, we saw concept sketches of some of the minis, so only a fool would disagree preproduction hadn't started prior to 2014. That is not and was not the issue, this issue was trust over when and at what level preproduction was at. It was not even close to "98% complete" when that statement was made in May 2013, it wasn't true in November 2013 when the date was first "officially" pushed back, it wasn't true in January 2014, at least for Wave 2 items, which it would be reasonable to be generous about and the primary reason I was 100% behind Palladium taking their time to produce the top quality miniatures to at least mainstream tabletop quality standards. Even the stealth nerf of the Destroid minis made sense, even if it screwed up some of what I had planned because I wasn't going to get one model makes all four.

In the end though, we all spring long we were subjected to sloppier and sloppier designs with lamer and lamer excuses that only improved when ND resurfaced as an active participant and commenter on RRT in the late spring. Oh, which was when ND mentioned that there were certain design issues that could not be changed. Despite claims of ND's supposed continuous active involvement...none of these other design flaws/issues/screwups appear in any of their other products.

B. ROBOTECH RPG TACTICS was marketed for the KS as both a RPG game supplement and a stand alone tabletop wargame. So I will counter your claims with the facts that others have mentioned the usual suspects: ignorant cuts in the sculpts requiring extra work, too many pieces for ABS minis (ones in own at that size are 1-3 pieces and more detailed) and probably even HIPS minis (which these are not) of this size, requirement to modify most minis because they are not what would be considered "posable" in any other average level minis, requirement to purchase (or cannibalize if you have them) 3d party product & hand modify to have standard appearing flying minis rather than something that appears to be spewing from the nether regions of a number of the minis.

Real tabletop wargamers, who were real Robotech fans (unless "real" = swallow whatever is shoved at them by official sources, even when those sources have been caught repeatedly being less than totally honest both in their own statements and by witnesses who observed entirely different situations than were reported). and, in the case of the owner of two stores, prepared to clear shelf space for RRT on release. BTW, if one has a clue in this economy, getting a FLGS owner to give up space for a product with zero buzz and zero product just because it is Robotech and supposedly a decent quality (at a minimum, assuming some hyperbole), that is a real fan. Well, until Spartangate, one look at that and real tabletop wargamers were laughing their arses off at it. BTW, I saw this and got it confirmed by real world minis designers and manufacturers...almost all of the supposedly required split cuts...weren't...plus if they had been done on diagonals, then it would have fulfilled the stated purpose of saving detail and put the seam where it wasn't so obvious and would have been much more trivial to fill. You know, something seen a lot on average and higher quality minis.

BTW, we've read that line before about all the "lovers" of the minis. Supposedly nobody mentioned any complaints and pronounced them all "perfect" and "almost perfect". The same minis that had been trashed all over the internet because of the seam lines. Then there were a number of people who witnessed multiple encounters with the author of the statement by potential customers pointing out the several flaws in standard miniature design that were far away from "almost perfect".

C. Nice claim, I'm sure it was nice seeing them at the two Gencons and what they did yesterday was cute. However, the period between Gencon13 and late spring 2014 was when all external evidence of any *active and relevant* ND involvement at all totally vanished. It's also a very similar situation to one that happened a few years ago and there are rumors of earlier incidents. Repeated behavior patterns tend to be repeated and the situation on the ground fits, including the call back.

BTW, given the statements of even Palladium White Knights, a certain character trait surrounds all claims from those associated with the company. It can be summed up in an old line about promises: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Oh yeah, I've been threatened with being banned for not being a cheese eating surrender monkey to the official line. I was going to blow it off but then I saw another warning issued for a post from weeks ago. The mods on this forum have absolutely no clue what a troll or trolling are, but I fit their definition of the terms. Here troll/trolling = not pronouncing the foul smell from the nether regions to be roses and joining in the mutual orgy of worship for the great Palladium.

Smartest thing for Palladium to have done was give me a refund months ago.

Warning: Actually, both the posts you were warned for since your last ban expired occurred within the last two weeks and I personally rejected giving you warnings for older posts that got reported recently as they predated your last ban and that would have been unfair. Your previous ban was also considerably shorter than the maximum you could have received. So, you've had plenty of chances to be a productive member of the community here. Instead there has been nearly constant negativity, falsehood and attack.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:35 pm
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:20 am
Posts: 47
I'm curious why'd you'd hang around Larry A if all you can see is negative? I'd imagine you'd have better things to do with your time then haunt the forums here if you've decided it's such a travesty?

It's pretty obvious you're unhappy with the product, though I take some umbrage at your implication that "real wargamers" would agree with your arguments. My gamer pedigree involves gaming of just about every kind but primarily wargaming starting with battletech around about 1985ish. If it helps put some perspective on it I'm also a 'hobbyist' not that I see any usefulness in that dichotomy - I like to model and paint as much as I like to play. I haven't seen anything coming from this project that should evince so much vitriol. Certainly I'd agree that there are some weird decisions made in the modeling department but I'm not surprised since Palladium isn't a traditional minis company. You seem to be defending ND but they themselves have had some issues on the back end and there was some sharp criticism when they were brought in as well. It also sucks that it's so late, but I haven't seen a KS that hasn't been late - I chalk it up to companies not yet adjusting to the proper production model required for KS, it's a fairly new concept. I've taken part in 3 KS and all of them have been late.

I'm willing to bet that if the game succeeds, Palladium might down the road make the necessary changes to the models to make them more user friendly. I haven't seen anything that's a deal breaker on the models so far.

I'm not a 'white knight', I just appear to have a lot more patience for this sort of thing than others. The lateness didn't bother me much since I'd rather they try to put out a better product than to rush it - and it's not like I had part and couldn't play until I got the rest, I had nothing so where's the harm in waiting.

I'm interested to see where things are in a year or two. My sincere hope is that it succeeds and we get more down the road. I'm a huge Invid Invasion fan and I'm really crossing my fingers we get a model line out of it. I think the company will evolve and adapt to miniatures and miniatures gaming and things will be a lot different down the road. Growing pains.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:33 am
  

Wanderer

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:26 am
Posts: 77
I have vocally disagreed with palladium and some of there decisions regarding this kick starter but as a "real wargamers" (being that I'm early in gw career as a pedigree like 1st fantasy edition and many other games from warmahordes to arcane legions to 5 or 6 others I've sold off over the years and multiple faction armies) and an outspoken opponent of decisions like selling before stuff was delivered and lack of communication, and considering I have my battlecry. I must state that the game rules are fairly decent considering Palladiums design history in such fields. I really don't have a lot of complaints about the models other than some of the tiny pieces are very tiny and the sprue layout is wacked out. I must disagree that this whole project is a bust. I feel it has been flawed and difficult and horribly frustrating but I feel the end product is very much what I was hoping for other than the scale is a bit smaller than I realized. I am now looking forward to full release so that I might get more stuff to flesh out my current collection and maybe an extra rulebook if they will sell them separately( Hint palladium please sell book by itself) as well as tokens and future releases. I look forward to more. Maybe some unused sentinels stuff even. So please reserve judgment and hate for true personal experience with the product and testing of your own and if you still feel that way then don't get into it. I don't like infinity or flames of war but doesn't mean I bash them and such. I just don't bother with these games. As a formerly outspoken opponent of what was going on with this and a kick starter backer(I truly changed my mind after reading the rules and getting some minis done at least on the game itself I still disagree with some of the communication issues and decisions made) I just urge taking the time to do your own testing(and we even got some parts on sprue I didn't remember unlocking, that is a plus that I wish they would have shared when they decided it might have helped some of my frustration) and if you still feel the same let it go and call it a loss like any "true wargamer" would with an army they decided to try and didn't like or any other game that isn't your thing. I don't play the warhammers anymore for the reason I don't like where things have gone but apparently some do because locally there is a resurgence. I am going to enjoy my robotech because I did get at least about what I expected when this started (,my hopes were fairly down too earth though) and in rules at least maybe a bit easier playability and simplicity which I honestly from readthrough like. Play testing could change that some but I am still mostly satisfied.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:26 am
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:20 am
Posts: 47
slaaneshgod, you have some good points. I think everyone can agree this product isn't perfect, but what product is. I feel like if the community continues to support the game things will come around. I don't know how responsive Palladium is with their RPG's but it's possible they may hear reasonable requests for change and enact those down the road. It's not cheap to rebuild a model, change a sprue and create molds but if they see a financial argument for it (games selling well) then they may consider it. I haven't heard too many complaints about the rules yet which is a good sign.

As for rule books sold separately, I fully expect this to be the case. If I remember correctly the starter box is priced around 100$ US which is on par for most games and reasonable if two people go in together on one. But some people aren't going to want to go that route and I imagine it'll be separate at some point. Ideally an electronic format 'living' rulebook would be awesome but baby steps.

You said you received some extra stuff not in your original KS? What was it? I kind of wondered whether Palladium/ND was going to do something to reach out to those who chipped into the KS, an extra sprue of stuff, extra dice, whatever. I think a little something goes along way - anything would indicate to me that they hear and understand the complaints.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:25 pm
  

Wanderer

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:26 am
Posts: 77
Grabula wrote:
slaaneshgod, you have some good points. I think everyone can agree this product isn't perfect, but what product is. I feel like if the community continues to support the game things will come around. I don't know how responsive Palladium is with their RPG's but it's possible they may hear reasonable requests for change and enact those down the road. It's not cheap to rebuild a model, change a sprue and create molds but if they see a financial argument for it (games selling well) then they may consider it. I haven't heard too many complaints about the rules yet which is a good sign.

As for rule books sold separately, I fully expect this to be the case. If I remember correctly the starter box is priced around 100$ US which is on par for most games and reasonable if two people go in together on one. But some people aren't going to want to go that route and I imagine it'll be separate at some point. Ideally an electronic format 'living' rulebook would be awesome but baby steps.

You said you received some extra stuff not in your original KS? What was it? I kind of wondered whether Palladium/ND was going to do something to reach out to those who chipped into the KS, an extra sprue of stuff, extra dice, whatever. I think a little something goes along way - anything would indicate to me that they hear and understand the complaints.



Thank you! That was kind of a long ramble mostly urging people to give it a try before we ask for a burning at the stake. As for sprue layout I really don't see that changing and will get over it I have seen worse. Maybe a redesign when and if we make it to a 2nd edition after they release extended universe, shadow chronicles, masters, and invid sagas after a few years maybe. Might even be mnecessary for balance after a bunch gets added but that is down the road. Its just that some stuff is really hard to assemble (looking at you vf-1r battloid head), and sometimes stuff is really close to the sprue and hard to cut off or hard to tell sprue from part in a few instances. Nothing terrible I've seen way worse over the years but still beyond the average non miniatures or model kit person.no just would love an extra copy of the book and some more tokens and another template and such the only part I didn't know they were going to sell is book. They didn't include extra sprues or nothing but on the artillery regult sprue is the parts for the telnesta(experimental particle beam artillery pod) on the phalanx sprue is the parts for the experimental phalanx missiles which I don't think we unlocked, from the wave break down sheet it sounds like the queadluun-ra and the Nousjaedul-Ger both come with the options on them for their experimental addons. Its still awesome even if it is one or two extra bits but it would have been nice to get a "hey we added this stuff to the sprue for those kits because it fit so enjoy guys" would have helped I think. Nothing super crazy just few extra parts.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:30 am
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
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so not extra's so much that the kickstarter had unlocked a lot of optional build options to be included into the base sets/sprues.

those were part of the stretch goals.. stuff they'd planned to include eventually, but when the kickstarter got enough funds they rolled them into the standard sprues instead of having to wait and put out some kind of upgrade kit after the game was established.

the kickstarter brought in over 5000 backers and a huge amount of funds.. they unlocked a ton of stretch goals, bringing in units and unit upgrades that they'd originally not planned to do right away.. they had to do the 2 wave release set up because the backers unlocked so many stretch goals.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:46 pm
  

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D-Bee

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:36 pm
Posts: 5
Comment: You are beginning to damage my calm...
I got my Wave 1 shipment today and I am very happy with it!! :-D :-D Looking forward to Wave 2. Many thanks to Palladium and ND and everyone else who made this game a reality!! :ok: :ok:


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