Native language in atlantis

[elecgraystone]

Howdy.
I was making up an altara (blind warrior women), and i got to the skill. I went to pick her native language and ran into some trouble. Just what IS their native language? One altara, Shora Kobe in final siege would seem to have kittani (she has that , american and euro as languages).
I look in mercenaries at captain myriam, another altara, and her languages are dragonese, gobbely, american, spanish and ALTARA(only place i've seen this language).
The staphra (WB#21) speak dragonese and atlantean. Ren the hunter (same book) has greek, american and dragonese).
Kittani get dragonese and gobbely (WB#2) and splurgorth overlords (same book) get dragonese, gobbley, faerie and atlantean(greek).
The metztla get dragonese plus extras.
The sunaj get dragonese, american and greek.

So what would the main language of atlantis be (seems like everyone has dragonese, so that'd be my guess) and would that be the native language for the altara?

[rat_bastard]

I went with demongogian, but Altess works too. Atlantian works too...

[rat_bastard]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

[elecgraystone]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Demongogian? none of the people that have writeups have this language, so why this? Splynncryth. THE splugorth has dragonese, faerie, gobbely, american, euro and atlantean. HE needs to use magic to understand Demongogian, so i can't see that as the native language.

[rat_bastard]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Demongogian? none of the people that have writeups have this language, so why this? Splynncryth. THE splugorth has dragonese, faerie, gobbely, american, euro and atlantean. HE needs to use magic to understand Demongogian, so i can't see that as the native language.

meh, typo.

[elecgraystone]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Demongogian? none of the people that have writeups have this language, so why this? Splynncryth. THE splugorth has dragonese, faerie, gobbely, american, euro and atlantean. HE needs to use magic to understand Demongogian, so i can't see that as the native language.

meh, typo.

That's a lot of typo's in a LOT of books.

[rat_bastard]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Demongogian? none of the people that have writeups have this language, so why this? Splynncryth. THE splugorth has dragonese, faerie, gobbely, american, euro and atlantean. HE needs to use magic to understand Demongogian, so i can't see that as the native language.

meh, typo.

That's a lot of typo's in a LOT of books.

which do you prefer, the idea that the supreme alien intelligence does not understand the language of 90% of his subjects or that Special K accidently left something out?

[elecgraystone]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Demongogian? none of the people that have writeups have this language, so why this? Splynncryth. THE splugorth has dragonese, faerie, gobbely, american, euro and atlantean. HE needs to use magic to understand Demongogian, so i can't see that as the native language.

meh, typo.

That's a lot of typo's in a LOT of books.

which do you prefer, the idea that the supreme alien intelligence does not understand the language of 90% of his subjects or that Special K accidently left something out?

90% ?

Lets look at the capital of atlantis, splynn.(WB#2 pg#36)
20,000 gargoyles. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
15,000 gurgoyle. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
500,000 splugorth high lords. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
8000 conservators. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
500,000 powerlords. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
3.5 million overlords. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
200,000 slavers. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
100,000 Kittani. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
1 million blind warrior woman. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
18,000 Maxi-men. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
6000 sunaj. no demongorgian, yes dragonese.
2 million generic sunernatural beings. Maybe both.

SO 2 million out of 8 million may speak demongorgian and 6 out of 8 speak dragonese. My math comes out to 25% speaking demongorgian max and 75% speaking dragonese. 90% seems just a LITTLE bit off.
If you have different numbers please post book and page numbers.

If we take all of atlantis it has 84-90 million creatures in to and out of those 20% of the 20 million slaves are supernatural creatures that may speak demongorgian = 4 million and d6+2 million visitors that may speak it for a grand total (if we max it) of 12 million out of 90 million speak demongorgian or about 13%. (WB#2 pg# 21-22)

[elecgraystone]

Dragonese/Elven, Demogogian and Gobbly are the universal languages for almost all supernatural monsters and demons.
You could also use that Galatic language from phase world because of so many inter dimentional travelers.

Yeah, after looking at all the creatures from atlantis the only language that they all seemed to have in common is Dragonese/Elven. It seems funny that they list Demogogian as the language of gargoyles, deevils and brodkil in RUE and none HAS this language listed in their skills. It also lists deamonix and they DON'T have any language skills since they magically know ALL languages.

To be truthful, i haven't found one demon, devil ect. with Demogogian listed as a language with a quick look through my books. They either list dragonese, can speak all languages magically or get a pick of languages(any). The only place i've seen Demogogian is in character writeups and it's been only a few times.

I doubt the Altara have mainted a seperate languge in all their years of being slaves, sorta like the Kydians and Kittani.

The only reason i could think of why they could was they remembered it though thier genetic memory. But with the language only showing up on 1 character writeup, i'm willing to chalk it up to a mistake.

[elecgraystone]

try reading the Rulian Translator RCC from the Splynn Market book if you've got it.

it should give you a basic idea of what to expect and what you can make of things on your own.

Yep, i was just looking at that RCC for another character. I think I'll just make dragonese the default native language in atlantis (since it matters now in RUE). It's the only language i can see that EVERYONE uses there. It would have been nice if they had at least been consistent with the character writeups so i could tell from them or at least put thier language in their RCC's. Oh well, i should remember it's rifts.

Thanks everyone for their help.

[MASTERMIND]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking too.

[elecgraystone]

I see Demongogian because its the language of the Dominant culture. its that simple.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking too.

????
As i showed, at most 25% speak it, how is that dominant? 75% speak dragonese. If you have other numbers, please post them.
What creatures are you counting as dominant? Splynncryth, THE splugorth doesn't even have this languange. Look at the Splynncryth company in mecenaries book. none of the shadow warriors can speak Demongogian! The kittani has euro and not Demongogian!
Lets look at armageddon unlimited from the same book. general ursus and colonel n'iall are both demons and NEITHER one can speak Demongogian!

Now the only creature i see with Demongogian in the WHOLE book is the wormwood holy terror. It seems only creatures from there get the language, since all the creatures listed under the language as using it, don't.

I'll be honest, i didn't even add Demongogian to the list of possible languages because no one speaks it in rcc/occ/creature writeups. i've seen more people with palladium fantasy languages listed that Demongogian.

[Greyaxe]

I would use Phase World as a reference. Likley the Spogorth and their minions would use a galactic trade toung, not necessarily thoes found in PW but something like it. Perhaps even splugorthian, but a trade toung would be very appropriate.

[elecgraystone]

I would use Phase World as a reference. Likley the Spogorth and their minions would use a galactic trade toung, not necessarily thoes found in PW but something like it. Perhaps even splugorthian, but a trade toung would be very appropriate.

None of the trade languages seem to fit IMO. Trade 2 uses telepathy, so that's out. Trade 3 and 4 are humaniod languages so they are out. Trade 6 is a new language. so i don't see that. Trade 5 is for reptilians and insects so that's out.
Only trade 1 might work and i think more of thier clients would speak dragonese IMO. Remember the splugorth have been at this for millennia, why would they change their native language? People that like to "launch campaigns of conquest" aren't interested in learning your language.

[elecgraystone]

Triple post

[elecgraystone]

triple post

[Greyaxe]

I would use Phase World as a reference. Likley the Spogorth and their minions would use a galactic trade toung, not necessarily thoes found in PW but something like it. Perhaps even splugorthian, but a trade toung would be very appropriate.

None of the trade languages seem to fit IMO. Trade 2 uses telepathy, so that's out. Trade 3 and 4 are humaniod languages so they are out. Trade 6 is a new language. so i don't see that. Trade 5 is for reptilians and insects so that's out.
Only trade 1 might work and i think more of thier clients would speak dragonese IMO. Remember the splugorth have been at this for millennia, why would they change their native language? People that like to "launch campaigns of conquest" aren't interested in learning your language.

Perhaps trade 7, Splurgothian. As the splugorth have many kingdoms throughout the megaverse having a galactic trade language seem quite probable. Particularly that their minions would likely learn it to communicate with highglords who talk to the splugorth etc etc etc.


Or trade 0ne which is a language inherited from the first, a language the spugorth who are aincent galactic travelers would likely have had exposure to.

[elecgraystone]

Perhaps trade 7, Splurgothian. As the splugorth have many kingdoms throughout the megaverse having a galactic trade language seem quite probable. Particularly that their minions would likely learn it to communicate with highglords who talk to the splugorth etc etc etc.


Or trade 0ne which is a language inherited from the first, a language the spugorth who are aincent galactic travelers would likely have had exposure to.

I'm not looking for a language thay have had "exposure" to, i'm looking for their native language. They are old enouph to not have to look elsewere for thier own language.
The problem is that none of the published splurgorth and thier minions have any of these. Dragonese seems to be the big winner there. And dragonese seems to be VERY old and used in lots of dimensions.

[Greyaxe]

Well if you are looking for native language you have to know what species you are asking about, If its atlantean it is greek, aincent greek but greek nontheless.

[Kesslan]

Perhaps trade 7, Splurgothian. As the splugorth have many kingdoms throughout the megaverse having a galactic trade language seem quite probable. Particularly that their minions would likely learn it to communicate with highglords who talk to the splugorth etc etc etc.


Or trade 0ne which is a language inherited from the first, a language the spugorth who are aincent galactic travelers would likely have had exposure to.

I'm not looking for a language thay have had "exposure" to, i'm looking for their native language. They are old enouph to not have to look elsewere for thier own language.
The problem is that none of the published splurgorth and thier minions have any of these. Dragonese seems to be the big winner there. And dragonese seems to be VERY old and used in lots of dimensions.

Well thats the thing though, by the description of Demogogian they would, infact have it. Ergo they do. Especially in light of some line or other about how OCCs/RCCs missing skills they should have get them for free etc.

Dragonese may however still be at least one of, if not the dominate language there anyway, given how much respect and in some cases 'above the law' treatment dragons get.

[elecgraystone]

Perhaps trade 7, Splurgothian. As the splugorth have many kingdoms throughout the megaverse having a galactic trade language seem quite probable. Particularly that their minions would likely learn it to communicate with highglords who talk to the splugorth etc etc etc.


Or trade 0ne which is a language inherited from the first, a language the spugorth who are aincent galactic travelers would likely have had exposure to.

I'm not looking for a language thay have had "exposure" to, i'm looking for their native language. They are old enouph to not have to look elsewere for thier own language.
The problem is that none of the published splurgorth and thier minions have any of these. Dragonese seems to be the big winner there. And dragonese seems to be VERY old and used in lots of dimensions.

Well thats the thing though, by the description of Demogogian they would, infact have it. Ergo they do. Especially in light of some line or other about how OCCs/RCCs missing skills they should have get them for free etc.

So every supernatural being gets Demogogian for free? Seems easier to just use languages they already have instead of adding an extra one IMO.

Dragonese may however still be at least one of, if not the dominate language there anyway, given how much respect and in some cases 'above the law' treatment dragons get.

Plus they all already can speak it.

[asajosh]

This is an easy one:
The Language spoken primarily in atlantis is dragonese/elven.
The Splugorth would have their own native tongue but doubtless also learn Dragonese fluently. The high use of translators, either magical/psionic or technological, virtually removes the language barrier in Atlantis anyway, but if natives like your blind warrior woman need to pick a language they were tought it should be Dragonese

[Kesslan]

So every supernatural being gets Demogogian for free? Seems easier to just use languages they already have instead of adding an extra one IMO.

No, just the various races stated under Demogogian as having it. As well as likely deamons in general where it at least makes sense. That doesnt mean it's necessarily that specific races primary language however.

And sure if they communicate via innate tongues or some stuff they may not even need it. But ultimately they still need -some- basic primary language regardless of what that is.

It's just another of those lovely Palladium inconsistancies either way.

[Library Ogre]

By the time of 109 PA, there's going to be very little recognizable about spoken American; it's undergone 100 years of relatively staid development from now until the Coming of the Rifts (giving the stabilizing influences of mass media), and 400 years of radicalizing influence during the Dark Age and Post-Apocalypse. New words will be invented and mix with old words in different languages; all of those subpopulations that are being slowly absorbed today will be rapidly absorbed after the Coming of the Rifts, and will bring their language with them.

Personally, I don't think that Spanish and English would survive as individual languages in the old United States; American would be a Spanglish hybrid, with significant loan-words from a half-dozen other languages (notably, I think, Arabic, Chinese, and Japanese). French survives purely on Quebecois cussedness.

[elecgraystone]

So every supernatural being gets Demogogian for free? Seems easier to just use languages they already have instead of adding an extra one IMO.

No, just the various races stated under Demogogian as having it. As well as likely deamons in general where it at least makes sense. That doesnt mean it's necessarily that specific races primary language however.

See there is the problem. Speakers are gargoyels, brodkil, deamonix, deevils, demons and SUPERNATURAL BEINGS OF ALL KINDS, as well as minions of wormwood by RUE. I'm not saying that it would have to be native, just that RUE states all supernatural creatures have it.

[elecgraystone]

Basically this problem comes down to a lack of consistency within and between the various books in Rifts.

Don't i know it.

Splynncrynth's Atlantis should use primarily Dragonese and Demongogian as its de facto languages. Greek (Atlantean) should be relatively unknown outside of Sunaj or specially trained slaves. Kittani, Kydians, and Altarans should have a racial language that they use amongst themselves and Dragonese or Demongogian for other dealings.

The only problem with adding Kittani, Kydians, and Altarans is that the RCC's don't give these languages! Most of these languages show up on character writeups and that's it. So are they ment as official new racial languages or was it that the author just added a new language because they didn't ask the question i did; what IS the native language in atlantis?
I'm thinking the second because of how long they have been minions and with a 38% difference between native and other languages, which one do you think the splugorth want? 1 native language means 38% less misunderstandings do to language.

[elecgraystone]

By the time of 109 PA, there's going to be very little recognizable about spoken American; it's undergone 100 years of relatively staid development from now until the Coming of the Rifts (giving the stabilizing influences of mass media), and 400 years of radicalizing influence during the Dark Age and Post-Apocalypse. New words will be invented and mix with old words in different languages; all of those subpopulations that are being slowly absorbed today will be rapidly absorbed after the Coming of the Rifts, and will bring their language with them.

Personally, I don't think that Spanish and English would survive as individual languages in the old United States; American would be a Spanglish hybrid, with significant loan-words from a half-dozen other languages (notably, I think, Arabic, Chinese, and Japanese). French survives purely on Quebecois cussedness.

Well, english/american survived just fine in rifts by the rules.

Characters from an alternate earth<snip>should be able to communicate in one of the major languages, most likely american/english or spanish

And

Normal english/american speakers automatically have trade four at 50%

SO humans from 1920 beyond the supernatural to modern day ninjas and superspies to rifts earth all speak english/american and/or trade 4 and talk to each other just fine. Note however that the skill % drops to non-native, IE 50% instead of native 88%. Most likely because of new words added and/or lost.

[elecgraystone]

Basically this problem comes down to a lack of consistency within and between the various books in Rifts.

Don't i know it.

Splynncrynth's Atlantis should use primarily Dragonese and Demongogian as its de facto languages. Greek (Atlantean) should be relatively unknown outside of Sunaj or specially trained slaves. Kittani, Kydians, and Altarans should have a racial language that they use amongst themselves and Dragonese or Demongogian for other dealings.

The only problem with adding Kittani, Kydians, and Altarans is that the RCC's don't give these languages! Most of these languages show up on character writeups and that's it. So are they ment as official new racial languages or was it that the author just added a new language because they didn't ask the question i did; what IS the native language in atlantis?
I'm thinking the second because of how long they have been minions and with a 38% difference between native and other languages, which one do you think the splugorth want? 1 native language means 38% less misunderstandings do to language.

Why are native languages a problem when there is a trade/legal/fuctional language for all in Atlantis to use. And all three races would grow up being functional in their native language and the common language of Atlantis.

See, RUE has this nifty skill called native language and it uses a different % than language, other. So when you make a character from atlantis, you have to know what language gets the better %.
Plus it might be nice to what they speak to each other. I'm sure they have one language that minions use so that they can work together.

[Dr. Doom III]

The native language of the Splugorth's Atlantis is Dragonese/Elf.
It is the closest thing Palladium games has to a megaversal trade language.

[Library Ogre]

Well, english/american survived just fine in rifts by the rules.

Yes, but I don't think that's a terribly realistic thing to have happened, given how languages and cultures work. Unless, prior to the CoR, the American Empire was completely homogeneous, with the vast majority speaking English as their milk tongue, the major languages would blend into the overwhelming one... Texas would likely have a lot of Spanglish, as things are already moving that way, now.

[Kesslan]

The native language of the Splugorth's Atlantis is Dragonese/Elf.
It is the closest thing Palladium games has to a megaversal trade language.

For the most part I'd say the 'native' language isnt native anyway. The Splurgies just moved in the natives are the displaced Atlanteans

For Atlantis as it is now really.. I'd consider it abit like Phaseworld where there is no one sole prevailant language. But several. PW You have a number of 'trade languages' for assorted races. Atlantis you'd have Dragonese/Elvish, Demogogian, and likely a few other very common languages based uppon the racial makeup.

It gets even worse once you start taking into account the various slaves. As their native languages are no doubt as varried as the races themselves. Obviously in time they'd be expected to learn what ever language their master uses as well in most cases.

It's one reason why (in my mind) that translator RCC in Splynn Market is so important. There's just so many languages in use that many people -must- make use of a translator.

[elecgraystone]

It gets even worse once you start taking into account the various slaves. As their native languages are no doubt as varried as the races themselves. Obviously in time they'd be expected to learn what ever language their master uses as well in most cases.

It's one reason why (in my mind) that translator RCC in Splynn Market is so important. There's just so many languages in use that many people -must- make use of a translator.

Unless you have all the minion races being followed around by translators 24/7 so they can speak to all the OTHER minions and/or slaves , you'd want ONE language that everyone is expected to use. That's what i'd do. Speak whatever language you want when you are not at work, but at work you all better speak the same thing. It just makes sense.
Most altara would only have their native language. (no languages in RCC skills and only a handful of secondary skills to pick from) So it's important that they be able to comunicate with all the other minions at the very least.

Yes, but I don't think that's a terribly realistic thing to have happened, given how languages and cultures work. Unless, prior to the CoR, the American Empire was completely homogeneous, with the vast majority speaking English as their milk tongue, the major languages would blend into the overwhelming one... Texas would likely have a lot of Spanglish, as things are already moving that way, now.

You want realistic from rifts?
It may not make sense, but all speakers of american and/or english from any time period/dimension can speak to each other at 50%+5% per level by the rules.

[Library Ogre]

Yes, but I don't think that's a terribly realistic thing to have happened, given how languages and cultures work. Unless, prior to the CoR, the American Empire was completely homogeneous, with the vast majority speaking English as their milk tongue, the major languages would blend into the overwhelming one... Texas would likely have a lot of Spanglish, as things are already moving that way, now.

You want realistic from rifts?
It may not make sense, but all speakers of american and/or english from any time period/dimension can speak to each other at 50%+5% per level by the rules.

Read my sig. I get tired of typing verisimilitudinous, though, in practice, it's a close synonym to "realistic".

[Kesslan]

It gets even worse once you start taking into account the various slaves. As their native languages are no doubt as varried as the races themselves. Obviously in time they'd be expected to learn what ever language their master uses as well in most cases.

It's one reason why (in my mind) that translator RCC in Splynn Market is so important. There's just so many languages in use that many people -must- make use of a translator.

Unless you have all the minion races being followed around by translators 24/7 so they can speak to all the OTHER minions and/or slaves , you'd want ONE language that everyone is expected to use. That's what i'd do. Speak whatever language you want when you are not at work, but at work you all better speak the same thing. It just makes sense.
Most altara would only have their native language. (no languages in RCC skills and only a handful of secondary skills to pick from) So it's important that they be able to comunicate with all the other minions at the very least.

Not so much the minions no. The customers are a whole other story, and they make up a huge chunk of the population.

Honestly? Just go with what ever you want. Personally I'd simply give it two native languages. Dragonese and Demogogian. Kinda like Canada has English and French.

[Library Ogre]

A quick scan of the RCCs in Atlantis shows that, when a specific language is mentioned, almost all of them speak Dragonese... all the Metztla, the Kittani, the Kydians, the High lords and the Conservators. Gobbley is second most common. Atlantean appears mostly in the "upper caste"... High lords, Overlords and Splynncrth. Faerie is also pretty common amongst the upper caste.

Thus, I'd say that the lingua franca of Atlantis is likely Dragonese/Elven. In the case of Blind Warrior Women, to make it easier, I'd also make that their native language, though you can put that they have their own language imprinted on the template, and have to learn Dragonese, if you like.

[elecgraystone]

A quick scan of the RCCs in Atlantis shows that, when a specific language is mentioned, almost all of them speak Dragonese... all the Metztla, the Kittani, the Kydians, the High lords and the Conservators. Gobbley is second most common. Atlantean appears mostly in the "upper caste"... High lords, Overlords and Splynncrth. Faerie is also pretty common amongst the upper caste.

This is why i had to scratch my head when a few people said it should be Demogogian. To be sure, Demogogian would be a good second or third language to pick up so you could speak with customers, but i just don't see it as the main language.

Thus, I'd say that the lingua franca of Atlantis is likely Dragonese/Elven. In the case of Blind Warrior Women, to make it easier, I'd also make that their native language, though you can put that they have their own language imprinted on the template, and have to learn Dragonese, if you like.

My vote would be for Dragonese/Elven. Since they only have a few skills they get to pick, i wouldn't make them waste one of them so they can talk to everyone. To be honest, thier language is only used once in a character writeup (merc) and isn't used in a later book (coalition wars), so i'm just going to say it was a fluke.

Honestly? Just go with what ever you want. Personally I'd simply give it two native languages. Dragonese and Demogogian. Kinda like Canada has English and French.

I could go with this. Free quebec OCC's get 2 native languages, so i can see atlantis OCC/RCC's getting both as well.

[MASTERMIND]

This is why i had to scratch my head when a few people said it should be Demogogian. To be sure, Demogogian would be a good second or third language to pick up so you could speak with customers, but i just don't see it as the main language.

In my defense I saw the word Demogogian and was thinking of something else.

Has the idea of creating a new language not presented in the Rifts book been considered yet? Something like Vexx, the language of megaversal business (just an example off the top of my head).

[elecgraystone]

This is why i had to scratch my head when a few people said it should be Demogogian. To be sure, Demogogian would be a good second or third language to pick up so you could speak with customers, but i just don't see it as the main language.

In my defense I saw the word Demogogian and was thinking of something else.

You weren't the only one to pick Demogogian, but i can understand why it was picked. If you just read RUE, it would seem that ALL supernatural creatures speak it. When you look at the creatures themselves you find out that very few do.

Has the idea of creating a new language not presented in the Rifts book been considered yet? Something like Vexx, the language of megaversal business (just an example off the top of my head).

That's not really an option for me. There are already too many languages floating around atlantis. I don't need another one on top of that.