Supervolcano of Yellowstone Park

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Unread post by RockJock »

What Rifts books give a description of the area?
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Unread post by RockJock »

I'll go read the snippets tonight. If the whole area is suppose to be an open caldera not much will be growing. Basalt flows will show some growth, but hard pan lava takes along time to erode enough to grow grass. Chunks of grass, volunteer trees, but not much else, even after 300 years. If you are talking ash flows and things like that, then vegetation will pop back much faster.
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Unread post by R Ditto »

Isn't there a lot of geothermal activity at Yellowstone?
Wouldn't all that activity (hot springs, gysers, etc) mean pressure and whatnot is always having a way of escaping, and that the conditions needed for an eruption on a large scale might be difficult to achieve at best?

It seems to me that there doesn't seem like much proof that Yellowstone did blow in any big way.

I can see massive geysers, explosions caused by underground water contacting lava and creating underground pockets of steam, and quite a few smaller 'eruptions' or jets of lava and ash being shot into the air, but not the entire area going up in one big perfectly timed mass erruption like Mt Vesuvius or Mt. St. Helens on steroids.
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Unread post by grandmaster z0b »

I think it does say it went off somewhere like Chaos Earth rpg.
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Unread post by sHaka »

MadHaven also mentions the eruption in the Intro "Fluff" text.
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Unread post by LostOne »

Chaos Earth says it erupted, however, given what I was reading about them somewhere (Nova's website I believe), they didn't treat it accurately in the game. If they had, there wouldn't have been survivors in the USA, probably none in North America.

Assume it had a brief hiccuping session and released enough pressure that it has not gone supernova from then until the GM wants it to in a Rifts game. Otherwise it never fully erupts.
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Unread post by R Ditto »

Erupt is a little vague, since there can be multiple ways a volcano can "erupt" IIRC.

Some might just have it turn out to just have lava sort of gurgle and burp over the top and pour/flow out and down the sides, some might just shoot a geyser of lava and ash into the air like a bottle of soda that was shaken up, some might just ooze lava out at a slow or fast pace, some can erupt and have an "avalanche" of lava, ash and whatnot rush down the hill like a mudslide (especially on tall volcanos with ice on top, or other areas with plenty of water of some sort), and a few end up having so much pressure built up that they simply explode in some way.
Some might erupt strait up/at the top, some might have it happen where the lava or whatever finds the weak spot in the side of the volcano rather than the top.

I tried to look up some info, and I found this site, along with an interesting question/answer.

QUESTION: What would happen if a "supervolcano" eruption occurred again at Yellowstone?
ANSWER: Such a giant eruption would have regional effects such as falling ash and short-term (years to decades) changes to global climate. The surrounding states of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming would be affected, as well as other places in the United States and the world. Such eruptions usually form calderas, broad volcanic depressions created as the ground surface collapses as a result of withdrawal of partially molten rock (magma) below. Fortunately, the chances of this sort of eruption at Yellowstone are exceedingly small in the next few thousands of years.


No mentions of wiping out civilization.
Since a caldera is just an area that has "collapsed" due to loss of stuff under the ground, it seems that much terrain in yellowstone would be more or less the same except the areas covered in lava.
One other site had some info on volcanos, and one pic (halfway down the page) shows the ash coverage from previous eruptions from Yellowstone in the distant past. The biggest one apparently only covered half of the USA area.
There was also apparent mention the next Yellowstone eruption (when it occurs) would be 2,500 times bigger than the 1980's Mt. St. Helens eruption.

That would be a lot of ash to cover the landscape and choke the skies.

With all the wacked out weather that was supposed to be happening during the coming of the Rifts, it is possible that massive storms and heavy rainfall might have sped up the removal of ash from the sky, and also wash away ash in higher areas... although, there is the factor of ash choked skies causing it to rain a lot of mud or acid rain or some such thing like that...Who knows, maybe the Ley Lines (or ley line storms) acted like massive ion based air filters of some sort, causing ash particles to cling together until they had enough mass to fall the ground... Hmm... ash based hail, that's an interesting concept.
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Unread post by LostOne »

Nova

A few quotes from it I found interesting:
Nova wrote:"If you're close enough to the eruption—and in a supereruption that can mean thousands of miles away—if you breathe in the ash in an unprotected way, you're breathing in tiny glass needles," says geologist Michael Rampino of New York University. "They cause the blood vessels in your lungs to pop. Water in your lungs combines with this volcanic ash, and essentially you drown in a kind of soup or cement of wet volcanic ash."
...
Even if you survived long enough for the ash to settle, you could still succumb to longer-term effects. A supereruption would smother many millions of square miles under an inch or more of ash. Less than an inch can disrupt most forms of agriculture, so a single supereruption could lead to the starvation of millions of people. (Wildlife and natural habitats, needless to say, would suffer just as grievously.) Ash would collapse roofs, poison water supplies, and clog machinery such as vehicle and aircraft engines, causing transportation to grind to a halt.
...
A big enough supereruption—the biggest yet identified unloaded 1,200 cubic miles of volcanic debris—could even have a global impact, threatening everyone on Earth. Aerosols shot into the atmosphere could create a worldwide haze that blocks sunlight sufficiently to change the climate for several years, with potentially disastrous effects on global agricultural yields. ... Refugees pouring into surrounding areas, disrupted satellite communications, reeling world financial markets—the fallout could be "sufficiently severe," notes the Geological Society of London report, "to threaten the fabric of civilization."
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Unread post by Qev »

Just be glad we don't have anything on the same scale as the Siberian Traps brewing these days. Three million cubic kilometers of ejecta is enough to ruin anybody's day. :lol:
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Unread post by RockJock »

Pryroclasitc flow is another issue.

A caldera in a normal volcano and something like Yellowstone aren't really the same thing.

As for the geothermal, for the most part, the geysers mudpots ect are the result of water hitting the magma plume, not a release valve of the pressure. The whole area actually breathes with uplift and subsidence.
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Unread post by Vrykolas2k »

Mithral wrote:
darkmax wrote:the description of the area is that it has hot springs and lush fields.... Which seems to mean it has not erupted.
It erupted big time during the cataclysm though. And 300 years is enough time for lush fields to spring up after such an event, given how fertile volcanic ash is.



I don't know about that... after the 3-5 years of solid winter, an ice age would follow...
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Unread post by The Galactus Kid »

Oh no. It exploded all right. It covered the majority of the western U.S. and the midwest in ash. Man oh man. I'll try to find out exactly where it is detailed, but yes, it explded and screwed things up for a few hundrewed years.
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Unread post by Library Ogre »

darkmax wrote:Normal being?....


Completely abnormal. Ignore the addition of a continent. Think of the environmental effect of magical manipulation of the weather.
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Unread post by Vrykolas2k »

darkmax wrote:oh! Although I believe it should have been.




As do I.
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Unread post by RockJock »

There should at least be a mini ice age after the Coming of the Rifts, similar to what is discribed under the New Soviet in Russia. You can counter this a little by saying the flaring of PPE increased the sun's output by a percent or two, and that the extra geothermal release dropped energy into the system, even that the popping in of Atlantis changed the wobble of the earth enough tou bounce out of the cold snap quicker.
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Unread post by R Ditto »

Wasn't Atlantis simply "gone" (as in, someplace else) and had simply "popped back" when the Rifts occured?
It seems the main problem with Atlantis showing up again would be a lot of water getting displaced, possibly causing an effective tsunami scale wave in all directions, and raising sealevel a a few feet.

As for the ice age, I could see something like that, but with all the stuff going on with the Rifts, the effects might have been minimized. Either that, or a mini-ice age could have happened. The PA callender was started about 200 years after the Cataclysm and the coming of the Rifts, so there was plenty of time for stuff to happen and the planet to recover.
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Unread post by Pepsi Jedi »

Personally I think this is one of those cases of trying to apply a bit "too much" real world science to a fantastical setting of the game.

If the valcano blew 300 years ago (( in 109 PA)) Then the planet is back on a more or less even keel. What ever that means for rifts earth.

Yeah it would have put a ton of ash in the air, but during the first years of the Rifts, the Rifts were wild. The ash could have gone though them. Heck one big rift could have opened over the volcano it self and sucked all the ash up so there simply was none on earth. (( Improbable, but possible))

When you add in elemental beings, and magic being thrown on earth at the same time, the newly displaced magicians from the rifts could have done some shimmy shimmy dance and taken care of the ash.

Then you have to add on the occurance of Dshifting. Where a large area suddenly shifts into another dimension, that still happens on Rifts earth, even with out rifts.

The last gives us a very very easy "out" to the volcano.

Boom valcano goes off. The force triggers laylines around it, it Dshifts to another dimension. Totally unnoticed in the chaos of the REST of the world being blown to hell. A few years, decades, centuries, it Dshifts back in. Poof. Problem solved.

Yeah it's an "out" but it effectivly answers a potentially tough question very very easily. We know it can happen. ALL OF ATLANTIS popped off earth for thousands of years, then popped back.

In Underseas it talks about all the tidal waves and stuff that wracked the US. Water washing up to the Appalichan and Rockies. Receeding, but not all the way.

Personally I'm from North Carolina, and in Rifts earth HALF the state is underwater. lol That always made me laugh, because where I grew up, suddenly became beachfront property, almost on the dime.

Yeah the concept of the supervolcano is very scary in theory and with all the "Disaster" movies and documenterys and stuff on tv now it's hyped up.

But for Rifts, it clearly didn't make a big deal, and with ______ALL______ the very simple magical answers, one doesn't have to worry about it.
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Unread post by Esckey »

You could also go by another route. Due to people not doing enough to stop Global Warming(or it was slowed), it gradually progressed for 92 years(now to 2098) till it was substantially warmer, then Yellowstone Volcano blew up and put things back, sort of at least. In the Canada world book it mentions tempuratures hitting -80C, that is Ice Age cold.

As for Atlantis, I doubt it would do anything to the Earths wobble, I think thats mostly due to the Moons orbit and a left over of what ever hit the Earth to create the moon
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Unread post by Qev »

darkmax wrote:Is it actually possible to drop a continent and cause the Earth to wobble?!

Well, assuming you can move the continent, the rest of the Earth will certainly react to it. The earthquake that triggered the Indian Ocean tsunami back in 2004 is known to have altered the rotation rate of the Earth, shortening the day by about 3 microseconds. It also sent a 'ripple' through the surface of the Earth that was measurable in the United States as a rise-and-fall of 3mm.

If the continent of Atlantis were to suddenly reappear and add its mass to that of the Earth, the results would be... well, catastrophic. There would be massive seismic disruptions, vulcanism, the Earth's rotation would change, and it would probably tip on its axis somewhat due to the new mass distribution. There'd also be the problem of the unfathomably enormous tsunami generated when that huge volume of the ocean suddenly gets displaced.

Heck, there've been theories that the Earth has 'flipped over' due to large amounts of vulcanism occuring at high latitudes. This causes a build-up of mass, and since the Earth is rotating, this mass will tend to want to be at the equator. So the whole surface of the Earth 'slips' and falls over. :)
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Unread post by Qev »

darkmax wrote:yes, I know it will cause tectonic shifts and tilts and all that stuffs. But wobble?!

Well, changing the axial tilt would be 'wobbling', wouldn't it? :)
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Unread post by Prince Artemis »

Just a few things to point out here. The volcano in yellow stone is one of the 'bubble' volcano's in that the magma there is not from a direct tube to the core. It's actually a bubble of lava that is risng to the surface. This means that is a more likely to 'pop' and blow big instead of just sputtering out, not that sputtering isn't impossible.

Lava isn't the main concern with yellowstone though. The lava wouldn't reach very far and would only really build up the walls of the caldera, making it a little more obvious. It's the gasses and ash that are the real danger.

Another thing though is that I personally think it's essential that it exploded and exploded big. This would explain alot of things in rifts that have never been properly explained before.

1) The buried ruins of the old world(our world). The only way they could have been buried in that way effectively is through volcanic ash.

2) The O-Zone layer is back to being intact. all volcano's when they erupt release massive quantities of Ozone into the atmosphere and it's beleive that it was volcanic eruptions that caused the formation of earths atmosphere in the first place. If yellowstone erupted it would very well explain the amazing recovery.

3) The vastly diminished numbers of humans living in west. There are few people on the atlantic coast because of the tidal wave that hit caused by atlantis rising. Theres no such explanation for why there is so little civilization on the west coast. Sure california sunk, but that doesn't explain why the area between the rockies and the coast are uninhabited. A massive volcano/earthquake, plus gasses and hanging ash would explain the mass extinction.

Just a final note. There were alot of ley line storms at the time of the comming of the rifts when the eruption would have occured, so it's possible that there was enough interference to keep the ash from spreading too far and too thick to the mid-east/eastern parts of the continent, which would explain the reason why there are survivors.
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Unread post by Qev »

Prince Artemis wrote:2) The O-Zone layer is back to being intact. all volcano's when they erupt release massive quantities of Ozone into the atmosphere and it's beleive that it was volcanic eruptions that caused the formation of earths atmosphere in the first place. If yellowstone erupted it would very well explain the amazing recovery.

The gases released in volcanic eruptions are actually quite destructive to ozone, however these gases rarely reach high enough into the atmosphere to affect Earth's ozone layer (15-25 km high). The ash and dust particles produced by eruptions, however, can accelerate ozone destruction by other chemicals by providing extra 'surface area' where these reactions can take place. Ozone is not produced in volcanic eruptions, but rather by normal atmospheric oxygen reacting with the Sun's ultraviolet radiation.

3) The vastly diminished numbers of humans living in west. There are few people on the atlantic coast because of the tidal wave that hit caused by atlantis rising. Theres no such explanation for why there is so little civilization on the west coast. Sure california sunk, but that doesn't explain why the area between the rockies and the coast are uninhabited. A massive volcano/earthquake, plus gasses and hanging ash would explain the mass extinction.

Most of the ash and gases would travel eastward, however, due to the prevailing westerly winds. The area immediately around Yellowstone would be devastated, but much of the ashfall damage would extend to the east, instead of south or west.
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Unread post by Library Ogre »

Qev wrote:Most of the ash and gases would travel eastward, however, due to the prevailing westerly winds. The area immediately around Yellowstone would be devastated, but much of the ashfall damage would extend to the east, instead of south or west.


Uh, no. The winds blow towards the west, not out of the west.
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Unread post by Qev »

MrNexx wrote:
Qev wrote:Most of the ash and gases would travel eastward, however, due to the prevailing westerly winds. The area immediately around Yellowstone would be devastated, but much of the ashfall damage would extend to the east, instead of south or west.


Uh, no. The winds blow towards the west, not out of the west.

Actually, it really depends on what latitude you're located at. For the temperate regions, including most of North America, the prevailing winds blow towards the north-east ('from the west'). In the tropical latitudes, the prevailing winds blow towards the south-west. And some latitudes get very little wind at all.
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Unread post by Pepsi Jedi »

What'd it say?
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Unread post by Pepsi Jedi »

lol that's it though? No discription of what happened? Just that it "Did"?

That's funny.

I was reading though my RUE last night and if you read between the lines it sort of alludes to "something" Happening. Much of the west is covered in a layer of earth, that "Tall buildings stick up out of" That's something likew 60 feet deep? 60 feet of earth doesn't just grow up around buildings. It came from some where.
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

It would have been one heck of an eruption! There would have been a lot of flattened and burned forest out that way.
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

I can't remember off the top of my head for that zone. But I think you are close.
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Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

there is info on this, over on the chaos earth forums
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

I remember from the program on Discovery channel they said the ring of destruction because of the blast would be unbelievably large! Based on the projections made on the other eruptions.
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Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

darkmax wrote:Err... there are more reliable sources of info on this.
only on the internet but as for them being reliable ,it is the internet.
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Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

try here
no one has ever seen on of them blow, so there is no way of knowing what will happen.
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glitterboy2098
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Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Pepsi Jedi wrote:lol that's it though? No discription of what happened? Just that it "Did"?

That's funny.

I was reading though my RUE last night and if you read between the lines it sort of alludes to "something" Happening. Much of the west is covered in a layer of earth, that "Tall buildings stick up out of" That's something likew 60 feet deep? 60 feet of earth doesn't just grow up around buildings. It came from some where.


well, the west was coming under 6+ feet of ash according to CE, plus in seismic events like volcanic eruptions, the seismic shocks can cause liqification of the ground, turning normally solid ground into quicksand.

then add in massive mudslides caused by the heavy rains that would occur with all that ash in the air to seed the clouds, and 300 years of sedimentary depositation.
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Unread post by Josh Sinsapaugh »

Pepsi Jedi wrote:lol that's it though? No discription of what happened? Just that it "Did"?

That's funny.

I was reading though my RUE last night and if you read between the lines it sort of alludes to "something" Happening. Much of the west is covered in a layer of earth, that "Tall buildings stick up out of" That's something likew 60 feet deep? 60 feet of earth doesn't just grow up around buildings. It came from some where.


Rifts-wise it doesn't explain what exactly happened as people don't know.

However, it is covered more-indepth in Chaos Earth (and rightfully so).

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Aramanthus
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

Actually I thought the 6 feet of ash was further east of the red zone.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

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"As you will it, your Grace."

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Unread post by LDMcFear™ »

Some interesting Links

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Aramanthus
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

Thank for sharing the links for those articles! It was an interesting read.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

I know. But some people have a nose to find the articles people need to read on a subject.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

I've done that too, when I needed too.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

Keep notes on that sort of thing Darkmax. Put them in a notebook. And then keep the notebook near your computer. That would help! :)
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

You have the perfect memory enhancer right from that area of the world. Can you use Ginseng? Or are you allergic to it?
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Aramanthus
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

LOL!! Sorry it's my lot in life to try and save others while not worrying how fast I drown! :-D
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Unread post by Aramanthus »

LOL! I'd still make sure you'd made it too the surface. It's instinctual.
"Your Grace," she said, "I have only one question. Do you wish this man crippled or dead?"

"My Lady," the protector of Grayson told his Champion, "I do not wish him to leave this chamber alive."

"As you will it, your Grace."

HH....FIE
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Re: Supervolcano of Yellowstone Park

Unread post by Kiltduderackham »

Hey I live in Montana only about fifty miles from Yellowstone and our GM, my uncle, used it in one of our campaigns where we played as us and had been chosen by a dimensional traveler and taken to Rifts Earth before Yellowstone erupted. He has always had plans for us to go to Yellowstone which has become a super nexus and a sacred gathering place for the Native Americans of the region. I'm trying to get him to write up his ideas so he can send them to PB.
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