Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

Talsamar
D-Bee
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:06 pm

Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Talsamar »

Has anyone found in the books information about Raw M.D.C. materials. Things like M.D.C. metal costs (not repairs), of M.D.C. metal ingots, leather, plant life, and other usable M.D.C materials. I want to stock up on tradeables and goods in game and i'm having trouble finding any info on raw materials. Also any S.D.C. goods is welcome too.
User avatar
ShadowLogan
Palladin
Posts: 7401
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Location: WI

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Rifts MercOps has construction costs for MDC materials, but overall I do not think there is anything like what you are looking for per say. Plants and leather would be found in individual entries.

The old Rifts Main Book (not to be confused with RUE) has salvage costs, that might be of interest. For SDC goods I would look at Heroes Unlimited line and Palladium Fantasy, both require converting cost to Rifts credits.
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Talsamar wrote:Has anyone found in the books information about Raw M.D.C. materials. Things like M.D.C. metal costs (not repairs), of M.D.C. metal ingots, leather, plant life, and other usable M.D.C materials. I want to stock up on tradeables and goods in game and i'm having trouble finding any info on raw materials. Also any S.D.C. goods is welcome too.


Most EBA is made from ceramics and plastics more than metal, IIRC, and the raw material for ceramics is clay. The raw material for plastics is some kind of oil.
No idea what the prices for either would be in Rifts Earth.

Overall, Palladium hasn't put much thought into economics or consistent standard for how MDC works, so I think you're unfortunately not going to find much.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9801
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Not directly related, but my CS: Civil Society supposed that an industry in the CS, especially common among former soldiers, is going into pre-Rifts ruins and salvaging MDC building materials.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

KS made my point more eloquently then I would of.

Then there are the MDC metal alloys that make up other armors. These alloys, because they have to be a certain molecular matrix to be MDC, if they are melted they turn back into their SDC components, but are more likely to just sublimate into a gas because of the energies needed to effect them in any significant way. In other words, you can't forge, roll, form a ingot of MDC metal into sheets of the same MDC metal. The only thing that can be done to it is to Mill (Talking similar to a CNC milling machines that are in use today, but using lasers with similar outputs to the laser weapons used on the rifts earth.) it into the same you want.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
guardiandashi
Hero
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:21 am

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by guardiandashi »

while its only specifically said in regards to the glitterboy chromium armor my take on it is that all MDC material is effectively made from what could be best explained as enhanced molecular bonding processes, and or single crystal/molecule processes.

the simple explanation is that the atoms/molecules that make up the MDC material are bound together better than occurs in nature (thats what makes them MDC vs SDC) however IMO that doesn't necessarily prevent them from being worked/shaped. What it definitely means is that working them is definitely difficult and requires specific techniques specific to the material in question, and if you do it wrong, it likely breaks or breaks down (at least partially) and may return to its sdc equivalent or just be destroyed
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

guardiandashi wrote:while its only specifically said in regards to the glitterboy chromium armor my take on it is that all MDC material is effectively made from what could be best explained as enhanced molecular bonding processes, and or single crystal/molecule processes.

the simple explanation is that the atoms/molecules that make up the MDC material are bound together better than occurs in nature (thats what makes them MDC vs SDC) however IMO that doesn't necessarily prevent them from being worked/shaped. What it definitely means is that working them is definitely difficult and requires specific techniques specific to the material in question, and if you do it wrong, it likely breaks or breaks down (at least partially) and may return to its sdc equivalent or just be destroyed


Maybe MDC = Molecularly Dense Composites
or something like that.
;)
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
Curbludgeon
Hero
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Comment: They/Them

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

That's a groovy blog you've got there , Mr. Hill, no foolin'. There are some real gems.

Talsamar, WB26-Dinosaur Swamp has some material on Steelwood. While there aren't explicit figures on timber value, there are prices given for simple tools crafted from it. Given the sizes of the trees (120-180' in height, 10-15' diameter at 6 year maturity), the semi-sustainable harvesting methods utilized, the challenges in processing, and the variety of products that might be made, as a first order approximation I'd estimate the profit after labor of chopping down a Steelwood Tree to be 1-200,000 credits. This, of course, is provided the local barbarians are cool with it, and dino security doesn't suffer casualties. Similarly, one could look at the Ironwood armors in WB28 Arzno and make a guess as to the value of unworked Ironwood per P.P.E. spent, but while I know a few books mention rough prices for hiring spellcasters I don't have any numbers to hand.

WB31-Triax 2 pp 69-70 briefly describes the invention of M.D.C. materials as involving the admixture of base metals with synthetic lightweight metals and ceramics. In my headcanon it involves the introduction of a seed crystal to melt-spun metallic glasses within a kaolinite slurry under a couple of atmospheres of pressure and a static EM field. This allows some cottage industry of individual Operators able to produce M.D.C. plating. With the sort of equipment that could be found in a well-stocked garage of the 1960s and some high clay soil, the Operator need only carry around the M.D.C. seed crystal needed to produce a nucleation site. This small amount of M.D.C. material is often formed into items signifying group membership such as guild tokens or signet rings.

Of course, your mileage may vary, but the above is an easy way to explain away the ubiquity of cheap M.D.C. materials and the relative lack of industrial mining.
User avatar
ITWastrel
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 297
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 pm

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by ITWastrel »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
guardiandashi wrote:while its only specifically said in regards to the glitterboy chromium armor my take on it is that all MDC material is effectively made from what could be best explained as enhanced molecular bonding processes, and or single crystal/molecule processes.

the simple explanation is that the atoms/molecules that make up the MDC material are bound together better than occurs in nature (thats what makes them MDC vs SDC) however IMO that doesn't necessarily prevent them from being worked/shaped. What it definitely means is that working them is definitely difficult and requires specific techniques specific to the material in question, and if you do it wrong, it likely breaks or breaks down (at least partially) and may return to its sdc equivalent or just be destroyed


Maybe MDC = Molecularly Dense Composites
or something like that.
;)



Have you been at my table? That phrase is literally my in-game acronym for MDC materials.
User avatar
The Beast
Demon Lord Extraordinaire
Posts: 5956
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Location: Apocrypha

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by The Beast »

That's a good in-game meaning for MDC.
User avatar
glitterboy2098
Rifts® Trivia Master
Posts: 13318
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

guardiandashi wrote:while its only specifically said in regards to the glitterboy chromium armor my take on it is that all MDC material is effectively made from what could be best explained as enhanced molecular bonding processes, and or single crystal/molecule processes.

the simple explanation is that the atoms/molecules that make up the MDC material are bound together better than occurs in nature (thats what makes them MDC vs SDC) however IMO that doesn't necessarily prevent them from being worked/shaped. What it definitely means is that working them is definitely difficult and requires specific techniques specific to the material in question, and if you do it wrong, it likely breaks or breaks down (at least partially) and may return to its sdc equivalent or just be destroyed


this. MD Materials are just metamaterials.. their unique properties are due to the arrangement of the atoms and molecules in them. the secret is the way it is produced. to give a comparion, a diamond is just carbon in a specific type of molecule. in a different arrangement of atoms, it can be nanotubes, buckyballs, graphite, or coal. very very different properties from the same element. all depending on how the atoms are arranged and bonded.


Mark Hall wrote:Not directly related, but my CS: Civil Society supposed that an industry in the CS, especially common among former soldiers, is going into pre-Rifts ruins and salvaging MDC building materials.


honestly it makes sense to me that the societies of rifts would have a strong scavenger culture.. during the new dark ages many communities would have scavenged from ruins to find spare parts, building materials, etc. just like how in the medieval 'dark age' old roman ruins were pulled apart so their bricks, stone, tile, and so on could be reused in building farmhouses and fortifications, and roman items like coins were converted into jewellery. in rifts i'd imagine that pipes, wiring, mechanical parts, etc would be in high demand, as would be any surviving weapons, computer parts, etc.
by the 100's PA i suspect that actual mining has become much more common (all the good accessible ruins and items would be fairly heavily picked over after 300 years) but i could see groups like the CS having programs to literally level old ruins and reclaim every bit of raw materials from them they can. even if just turning old concrete into gravel for use in making new concrete.
Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)
Author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)
Image
* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

-Max Beerbohm
Visit my Website
Mouser13
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:46 pm
Location: Omaha, NE

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Mouser13 »

Always used the cyborg armor as starting point as from my view it would be as close as you can get to pure Rifts main book 243. No need for any of the other things of armor. Means closes to as you can get as pure mdc Materials. And it shows with the cheap cost of it vs any other body armor. Maybe a bit less as does have to be shaped but really minor cost.
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

ITWastrel wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
guardiandashi wrote:while its only specifically said in regards to the glitterboy chromium armor my take on it is that all MDC material is effectively made from what could be best explained as enhanced molecular bonding processes, and or single crystal/molecule processes.

the simple explanation is that the atoms/molecules that make up the MDC material are bound together better than occurs in nature (thats what makes them MDC vs SDC) however IMO that doesn't necessarily prevent them from being worked/shaped. What it definitely means is that working them is definitely difficult and requires specific techniques specific to the material in question, and if you do it wrong, it likely breaks or breaks down (at least partially) and may return to its sdc equivalent or just be destroyed


Maybe MDC = Molecularly Dense Composites
or something like that.
;)



Have you been at my table? That phrase is literally my in-game acronym for MDC materials.


lol
Great minds think alike, I guess.
:D
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
kaid
Knight
Posts: 4089
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:23 pm

Re: Raw M.D.C. Materials and cost.

Unread post by kaid »

Mark Hall wrote:Not directly related, but my CS: Civil Society supposed that an industry in the CS, especially common among former soldiers, is going into pre-Rifts ruins and salvaging MDC building materials.



They do talk about this a bit in some places about salvaging places like old chicago for resources. I suspect in a lot of lower tier communities most of their MDC materials are going to be recycling salvaged golden age stuff or battle damaged vehicles/armor.
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”