Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

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Colonel_Tetsuya
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Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

I realized i was diverting the other thread, and figured we could just start a new one.

Here's the original post:

Where i'd go with MiO/Rifts Space

- Part of this plays into my "you also shouldn't be able to travel long distance on Rifts Earth" mantra. Why? Magic-McGuffin-We Don't Have to Expain It.

* In "My" ideal Rifts, all the ambient magic in the air/atmosphere makes long-distance travel nearly impossible without large work (powerful beacons of limited range) to make the setting kind of work in the "you have to take a long time to travel places" way that Kevin wanted, when you have vehicles capable of spanning the continent in 1 hour.

* This gets WORSE the higher you go into the atmosphere... until, as you get to the edge of the atmosphere, there is some kind of dimensional shearing/magical whosawhatsit that massively distorts any signals, images, and THINGS trying to pass through. This is worse in proportion to mass. Larger things trying to go through are even MORE likely to be destroyed or simply poofed into other dimensions. Communications are completely distorted and most of the time dont even break through at all, and visual sensors are useless. They might even show you other dimensions. This is the primary reason that the original orbital stations didn't/couldn't help Earth.

> If you're wondering how Archie Three and a few others get communications through - its because any sufficiently advanced technological culture who deals with magic will eventually figure out how to compensate for such things. All of the societies of the Three Galaxies, for instance, and definitely the Splugorth and Naruni Enterprizes, can and do simply build their technology to compensate by default. Archie got -lucky- and inherited some research from The Mechanoids on how to compensate for this problem, and managed to figure out enough to get access to that one Satellite.

> While the Splugorth/Kittani can see and communicate into space, there is NO compensating for the dimensional shearing when it comes to trying to enter and leave the atmosphere. And since there really isn't any reason for them to bother the Orbitals (there simply aren't enough of them to plunder for slave stock, and they have other means to get supplies/resources from the Belt..) they dont even bother.

> How did the Arkhons get through in such numbers? Thats actually an ironic fault on the part of the Inca. The line drawings actually disrupted the dimensional shearing and allowed more of the Akrhon ships to get through than otherwise would have made it had they done nothing. They, of course, had no way of knowing this.

> The dimensional shearing will eventually go away; it might take as few as another 200 years or as many as another 1,000. Its just a result of the Cataclysm and how dramatically Rifts Earth was sparked back to magical life. More to the point, it is irrelevant for the purpose of the Rifts game. It’s here to stay.

* The general technology level of Rifts Space needs to be Golden Age+. Not necessarily Three Galaxies level, but better than the Golden Age by at least al little. They were, after all, thrust into a desperate situation that would have required them to innovate quickly to become fully self-sufficient.

* The population of Rifts Space should be quite a bit higher than Mutants in Orbit. Not necessarily in the orbital habitats themselves, but as a whole. The moon colony, for example, should easily be able to hold millions of people. Digging into and pressurizing the moon isn’t nearly as hard as building a new station.

* Water and supplies should still be important, but not nearly as important as MiO made them out to be. Recycling efficiency is probably north of 95%. Due to genetic engineering being a thing that Golden Age powers were very well acquainted with, food production is not a huge bottleneck; vat-grown proteins can be made into any type of meat, and plants engineered to be more hardy in zero-G and to use airponics or hydroponics should be quite easy to make.

* People who live in Rifts Space aren’t going to die if they go down a gravity well. Genetic Engineering was already underway at the time of Cataclysm to deal with the issues of living permanently in zero or low-G environments. It is long since completed. There may, however, be complications if they live in a normal-G environment too long. (Say, for instance, the mutation introduced to fight bone growth/density issues makes your bones ossify in a regular environment). Not a huge issue if not; it could also just not be a problem of any kind and no one cares.

* Mutant Animals are a large minority population; some stations/nations they are equals, others they are outcasts/not welcome, and there are stations/nations that are entirely mutants. The primary reason for this is that animal experimentation was something of a taboo subject at the time of Cataclysm and many of the Great Powers had moved their research into space to keep it away from prying eyes.

* There are a lot more than the 3-4 stations and Moon Colony. In fact, Euro Station is now in the Belt (they broke the station down into ships and moved it wholesale), and the Russians/Soviets have moved to Phobos, and maintain their old station purely as a pared-down trading post/military base. Freedom Station is the only large nation still “based” in Orbit, even though more of their population lives in the Belt than on Freedom Station. The Moon Colony (still the Cyberworks Republic) is the only other “Major Player” based near Earth at all.

* Mars still has the remnants of the Arkhons that didn’t make it to Earth.

* Magic is a much larger part of life in Orbit than it was in MiO. Technowizardry and Magic are just as known and common (or uncommon, as the case may be) as they are on Rifts Earth.

* Psionics is also much more common, just as common as it is on Rifts Earth.

* The Cyberworks Republic and Freedom Station are fine with Psychics, though the CR is paranoid rather like the CS - implants and registration (though they aren’t 2nd class citizens, they have full rights). Freedom Station (id probably choose a better, NEMA-themed name for this country) has no issues with psychics and the only ones required to register are Master Psychics, and even then their records are only available to the authorities.

* Both the CR and FS are no bueno with magic. CR is CS-level paranoid (no magic, ever, not ever) about magic and the supernatural, and Freedom Station doesn’t allow magic users to be citizens but does allow them to visit. Actually USING magic on Freedom Station territory is outlawed unless at the express orders or invitation of the government. (They do employ Magic-using operatives) Magic users who choose to visit or live in FS territory are welcome to do so; they just cant use magic without getting exiled. Magic items are outlawed in both societies, though penalties in FS territory are usually just confiscation and fines. Repeat offenders may be banished.

* In contrast, the Martian Soviet developed a lot like their pragmatic Earthbound bretheren of the Sovietski. They make EXTENSIVE use of Psychics (loyalty tests, mind screenings, you name it. Paranoid Soviets). Magic is tolerated but strictly governed by the State, and the Martian Soviet makes moderate use of Techno-Wizardry (strictly state owned).

* The European Conglomerate is tolerant of both magic and psionics; there are extensive laws governing both, including protection in both directions from fraud, etc. As long as they don’t break the laws, magicians and psionics are welcome to practice their trade in the Conglomerate.

* There are several magic-oriented communities in The Belt and perhaps out in the Jovian Moons. These aren’t large, but have an outsized presence because they manufacture Technowizardry items, including space ships (nothing on the order of what the Three Galaxies produces, but on-par with what the other Orbitals produce, when you account for things like Impervious to Energy and ships actually having shields (since energy shield technology is NOT something the space-borne branch of Triax has developed).

* Mars (other than the Arkhons) is still largely unpopulated, and by and large the other “Orbital” factions avoid it. The reason is, it is just as magically active as Rifts Earth, but far more unstable. Large swathes of Mars are bathed in mystic energy, but the Ley Line storms are near-constant, and the dimensional anomalies are also near-constant and uncontrollable. It is a haven for supernatural menaces that have been dumped there, and the few parts that aren’t magically unstable are either occupied by the Arkhons, or a powerful kingdom of magicians that is fairly isolationist. They do not welcome visitors, and are quite powerful, though they DONT appear to have any spacecraft to their name and their cities and population centers seem to be largely subterranean. They appear to be a mix of many races (as bodies left behind in fights with the Arkhons and others have been Human, Elven, Mutant, etc) and unless you enroach on their borders, fairly peaceful.. they just don’t want to have much to do with the Orbital community. They do maintain a single asteroid outpost in The Belt, but they don’t use space ships to get there - its linked to their Mars home via a Rift/Dimensional portal, and they sell/trade advanced Techno-wizardry and other items from this outpost, though not in giant quantities. Even visitors to this outpost are kept at arms reach, with no access to the non-commercial parts of the asteroid, and any attempt to glean more information about them is ignored.

* The Splugorth DO have a base in The Belt; its a large asteroid base outfitted with the best Splugorthian technology (artificial gravity, A small fleet of Kittani ships to defend it, shields, etc) but it is NOT, ironically, a slaving station. It is here merely to exploit the vast mineral resources of The Belt and return them to Earth. The area around this base is known as a Death Zone to locals (ships that enter do not return) and Orbitals know to keep away from Kittani ships (even if they don’t know what they are called). The Splugorth don’t bother running active slaving operations from this station both because it would draw more attention to them and because the population density in Rifts Space is just not large enough to make it economical. This is not to say that the occasional small asteroid outpost, ship, or cargo fleet doesn’t go missing (and is taken by the Splugorth) but its not a main purpose of the base, and they’re always careful not to leave evidence. It would be more trouble than it is worth to have to dump “real” Kittani warships (they don’t use anything heavier than a Three-galaxies equivalent Destroyer Escort in Rifts Space) in to defend against a concentrated attack, and would make the entire endeavor unprofitable, whereas right now, with minimal defenses and slave labor, they make a tidy profit getting rare minerals back to Earth.

* There are probably several star nations inhabiting the less deadly of the moons of the outer planets. (Basically, any one of them that can be used to create subterranean dwellings/cities). I hadn’t really though this through too much.

* There ARE some people in Orbit/Rifts Space that are aware of the general situation on Earth. Enough magical travel happens between the two that SOME information has gotten out that the authorities of the various nations in Orbit have put together at least a small picture of what is going on. Since almost none of them have the means to make any use of that information, though, it’s mostly academic. The few magical star nations can get people back and forth from Earth, but not in large numbers, and very few people from Orbit WANT to visit the monster infested wastelands of Earth. The few that do are magical practitioners, and those that do go to Earth generally don’t tell Earthers where they are from, so Earth has little to no idea what is going on in Orbit (with Archie Three being a notable exception since he is now gleaning basic information from his contacts with old CAN/CR satellites); the few that do say they are from Space are either not believed or the people of Earth simply believe they are from another dimension (perhaps an Alternate Earth’s space) since everyone on Earth “knows” that nothing survives into Orbit. Basically, the right people in the know in both settings know that you can get back and forth, but for 99.99% of people in both settings, the other might as well not exist.

* Mutant Animals are welcome in Freedom Station (seprate-but-equal, with full rights but the communities don’t mix) and the Euro Conglomerate (full rights), are second-class/third-class/nearly slaves on the Moon, are treated as second-class citizens by the Soviets (though in a benign/caretaker way; the Soviets see them as helpful “pets” for whom they are responsible; ironically, in Space, its the Russians that have Psi-Hounds), and have mixed reactions in all the other nations. There are some smaller nations that are Mutant Only, and Outcast Station (now positioned out near Pluto in our new setting) is run by Mutants and it is non-mutants that are 2nd class citizens. The magical nation on Mars appears to have mutant citizens (mutant bodies have been discovered in the aftermath of battles) but what their position in society is, no one knows).

* Ship technology is something along the lines of what Triax or the New Navy have.. only in Space. (When you think about it, subs are pretty much space-ships anyway). Large ships might be the size and power of the USS Ticonderoga, with “average” ships being quite a bit smaller. Most fighting is done by fighter craft and space-mobile Power Amor (and Borgs). There is no artificial gravity, though larger ships may have rotating parts of their structure, and smaller ships might even be oriented so that when under power, the decks are “down” against the direction of thrust, simulating gravity. Travel between planets can take days, weeks, or more, as there is no artificial gravity and no way to get rid of the effects of high acceleration and inertia. Most ships don’t accelerate at more than 2-3G, and even then, that is “maximum military power” and they don’t maintain that for long as it puts the crew under huge stress (though it is sustainable due to advances in EBA and sealed crew suits).

* Power Armor, Bionics, and other Weapons Technology are on-par with anything Triax (of Earth) has, barring force field technology. The Cyberworks Republic has some of the most powerful borgs, with the Martian Soviet coming in only a bit behind. Freedom Station and The Euro Conglomerate do not make extensive use of Bionics for war (though they do have fully capable Bionics facilities) - its usually used as prosthetics/replacements in those two places. Giant Robots don’t really have a lot of place in the armies of Rifts Space, their place being taken up by Fighter/Bombers. Juicer technology is available, likely with new variants dedicated to Space. Some Juicers use cryogenic suspension (a well-established technology in Orbit) to extend their effective lives.

* There is SOME kind of hijinks going on on Mercury. Never decided what.

* Venus is undergoing rapid de-heating. It may be suitable for colonization “soon” (sometime in the next 5-50 years). No one is sure what exactly is causing this, and its still a little inhospitable for any of the powers to send down probes and figure it out.

That is roughly where i’d start with a Rifts Space overhaul.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

The next two relevant replies were:

Warshield73 wrote:I like a lot of this stuff and some of it is similar to my own. I am especially OK with no Euro station, god I hate that place. Also the magical shear that stops air travel and space flight is kind of interesting.

Ships and stations using rotating sections for gravity is perfect for a setting like this and you can even apply it to the Moon Colony and I want to stay away from any magic gravity like we have in Phase World. Thrust gravity is cool but it requires a lot of math and makes the system a lot more complicated.

I would just say it would be cool to avoid some of the big bads we have on Earth that would be too disruptive. I think especially Narumi and Splugorth. I would also like to see some ancient ruins in the system. Maybe some Atlantean or alien leftovers.

Just my thoughts.


Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:I wasn't sure about putting Atlantean ruins in Space; from what we know about the Atlanteans, they never went into Space. I, too, thought about Alien ruins of some kind but couldn't find a great way to work them in. Perhaps the Magic Kingdom of Mars is based on alien ruins/technology/techno-magic.

Or we could take a page from David Weber's [i]Empire from the Ashes[i] series, and have one of the moons of a planet be a ship/installation/remnant of some stellar/alien empire.

As for the Splugorth, i included them as known foil but kept their role small so that if you wanted to, you could simply ignore them. The other reason to have them is it is one way to introduce Earthborn PCs to Rifts Space - they could be captured as slaves by the Splugorth and brought to Orbit and then rescued by Orbitals (or escape). As written/intended, the Splugorth have no intention of becoming a major player in Orbital life, as it simply is not nearly profitable enough. They are making money for little expense now and plan to keep it that way. If it becomes more costly, theyll simply pack up and go home.

I had no intention of putting Naruni anywhere in Rifts Space; there simply isnt enough money to be made there for them, they aren't even interested. The Splugorth are only there because they can get the materials the Kittani need to produce their technology cheaply without having to buy it on the interdimensional markets - it makes money, in that it saves money, but they are in no hurry to expand their operation and wouldn't really lose any sleep if they had to close it down.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Perhaps the Magic Kingdom of Mars is based on alien ruins/technology/techno-magic.


I'm going with that.

Atlanteans/Atlantis were only at their height 10,000 years ago.

What if Mars was as magically active as Earth... and ancient Martians were really freakin good at magic? And by ancient Martians.. i mean "before there was intelligent life on Earth" ancient.

I think that's the foundation of the Magic Nation of Mars; a literal re-founding of that ancient society, based on their ruins.

I think a LOT could be done with that. Maybe a new type of magic. Maybe several new types of magic. Or twists on existing ones.

And i think the foundation of the society provides the reason why this society, which is the only one in Space that COULD send large numbers of people to Earth (being on a magically saturated planet, with the equivalent of Pyramids and infinite PPE for Portals) doesn't. They simply dont care about Earth at all. Theyre rebuilding the Martian civilization, and Earth can sit and spin, for all they care.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Orin J. »

Where would I go with Rifts Space? straight to the wastebin. i have probably a good dozen RPG settings set in space to choose from and all the interesting stuff in rifts is on one planet, i see no reason to water down the experience of the setting for the sake of being able to have my space hijinks with the branded armor of choice.

taking Rifts into space is like wearing timberland boots everywhere, you're just proving you put style before fashion and function.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

I like The Expanse as much as the next person, and am on the 3rd season now in my rewatching it in anticipation of the new season next week. In what appears to perhaps be be a minority opinion on this forum, I don't think modeling Rifts Space after it is a great fit, and there are other games better suited. In that setting there were centuries of exchange between Earth, Luna, Orbital stations, Mars, and the Belt, and while much of that was exploitative in favor of the Earth, no polity was entirely self-sufficient in its first century. Someone can dig out a timeline if they like, but pre-Cataclysm Earth had less than 75 years of large-scale space industry.

I for one think there's some value in the limping along nature of the MiO setting, but would see it subverted in Rifts. If I were to develop a game for Rifts Space, the stations would be entirely beholden to technowizardry, yet not recognize it as such. Here's some rough notes:

Tech:Left to their own devices, the LaGrange point stations would have suffered systemwide failures within 18 months folowing the Cataclysm, with lunar colonization scraping by for perhaps a generation before following suit. With the Earth appearing entirely overtaken by a supernatural infestation, as described here, there was no opportunity for reupping of supplies, nor the facilities for fully refining raw materials found in space. While many fell to despair a group of maniacally optimistic engineers refused to accept the reality of the situation so vociferously that their makeshift repairs miraculously worked.

Centuries later, this near obsession on perseverance is predicated on a long-standing heritage of orbital exceptionalism. The notion that a given solution will work because it has to is less a matter of necessity-driven innovation but an assertion of will. The engineering of Rifts Space, while building upon Golden Age understanding has lagged behind that of Triax, simply due to a dearth of human and material resources. Just don't let them hear you say that.

The Astrorigger(place-holder name) is a cross between a Technowizard/Gizmoteer and a Nega-psychic. They do not perceive what they create as being supernatural, and if it registers as such to traditional psionics/magic it is only barely. They are unable to cast spells outside of items. The spellist mainly draws from the utilitarian aspects of Space Magic, Incantation, and Biomancy. The OCC arguably could take a page from BtS, and have a smaller PPE/ISP pool which is multiplied during moments of stress.

AR items can usually work on their own without being activated, at some lesser effectiveness, and don't involve obvious magical elements like crystals. The items' activation costs are lower than they would be for traditional Technowizardry, and almost everyone in space has a larger-than-normal PPE pool with which they may use them. While some degree of cybernetics/bionics does not reduce the average tspacer's PPE/ISP pool solely in relation to activating AR items, and almost all spacers have medical implants to largely compensate for life outside a gravity well, P/FC Cyborgs do lose their personal PPE. This is compensated for by the creation of Talismans made from keepsakes important to the individual Borg, unknowingly recharged via long-established Humanity Reaffirmation routines.

Mars:I want to encourage a sword and planet style game here, where there's been 3 generations or so of explorers empowered by dead indigenous Martians, and after initial construction of the first habitats moves between the literary traditions of jungle adventure to weird fiction to Bronze Age comics, to be contrasted with the sorta-60's sci-fi feel of orbital space.

Nascent Martian terraforming efforts in the late 2080s were remarkably prescient, and designed for large-scale atmospheric alteration without further involvement from human agents. Following (whichever massive magnetosphere-protective public works sounds most possible) ammonia based nitrogen fixing allowed the cyanobacterial vats to keep churning out oxygen just as fast as polar ice was sublimated. By 2200 long-dormant lichens were introduced via automated rover, followed 50 years later by various grasses. By 2300 there was enough atmosphere at a high enough temperature that the first humans to land on Mars didn't require a hermetically sealed suit, and could make do with warm clothing and a gas mask.

Upon human contact with the modified lichen established on Mars a psychic connection was established with the long dead remnants of the Ancient Martian civilization, whom had lodged some aspects of their consciousness below the ice caps.

Politics and otherI don't have a big problem with the different groups as described in MiO. I think depicting Russians as Soviets is kinda lazy, but I'm ok with space communism. I'd probably get rid of most of the overt superpower options for the orbitals like Energy Expulsion, but leave sensory stuff and things that could arguably be genetic engineering. Modified animal-people are ok, but I don't think the setting needs to be furry-focused. On Mars there should be more power options available.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by jaymz »

I see "Rifts Space" as being similar to Gundam or Jovian Chronicles in "style" with the caveat of Earth being relatively inaccessible for the time being. That is how I am planning to "write it" when I get more time to do so. (Busy with Lazlo/New Lazlo and coordinating with people who are helping do the netbook for that)
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

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Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:I realized i was diverting the other thread, and figured we could just start a new one.

Here's the original post:

Where i'd go with MiO/Rifts Space


* This gets WORSE the higher you go into the atmosphere... until, as you get to the edge of the atmosphere, there is some kind of dimensional shearing/magical whosawhatsit that massively distorts any signals, images, and THINGS trying to pass through. This is worse in proportion to mass. Larger things trying to go through are even MORE likely to be destroyed or simply poofed into other dimensions. Communications are completely distorted and most of the time dont even break through at all, and visual sensors are useless. They might even show you other dimensions. This is the primary reason that the original orbital stations didn't/couldn't help Earth. .



This is what I used in my world-settings; a zone of 'dimensional turbulence' that increased the higher you got in the atmosphere, the lower you got in orbit, before you either got sucked into a random rift or, more likely, ripped apart in an 'Interface Storm'.

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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by DhAkael »

All really good ideas... truly they are.
I am of course going to ignore all of them however as over the nearly 30 years (gods I'm old) I've been developing my rifts 'verse, space travel DOES happen and diplomatic relations have occurred between orbitals and certain 'mud-sider' polities.

* However, it's not just a "strap on your blaster and points your Winnebago's nose at the sky and light the fuse."

* Pre-cataclysm humanity has spread out across certain areas of the Milkyway, but for "reasons" can or will not "take back the motherworld."

* There are several places set up across the Tri-Galactic verse that connect to narrative created (re; over many real world years of RP) gates back on Terra.

I really do NOT like limiting my game by arbitrary nit-picking, but neither do I like just throwing open the flood gates and saying "Stardestroyers in everyones parking lot."

TL:DR I'm grooving to the posts above on why "NO SPACE FOR YOU", but have gone another way.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Orin J. wrote:Where would I go with Rifts Space? straight to the wastebin. i have probably a good dozen RPG settings set in space to choose from and all the interesting stuff in rifts is on one planet, i see no reason to water down the experience of the setting for the sake of being able to have my space hijinks with the branded armor of choice.

taking Rifts into space is like wearing timberland boots everywhere, you're just proving you put style before fashion and function.


Ill disagree with the Timberland boot analogy, simply because i think you can make Rifts Space unique.

My goal (with the above) was to make it like Rifts (pockets of civilization, lots of dangerous "wilderness", long travel times, lots of adventure opportunities), while putting a Space-ey spin on it.

Most other space settings are Space-Opera, Super-high-tech settings, so i think a mix-tech (high enough tech to have Borgs, viable Spaceships, Power Armor, etc, but low enough tech to not have Anti-gravity, magical fighters that behave like WW2 airplanes, etc) setting has some potential.

YMMV of course.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

So after reading responses above (and checking on a few spells and abilities in various books), ive got some updates to my ideas:

* Orbitals know a lot more about Rifts Earth than Rifts Earth knows about them, however, ive decided that all of the major powers know the basics of orbital reality and the more magically oriented ones, like Lazlo, know more than that. The reason is that the Magic Societies of space can and do come to Earth. The Magicians of Mars come less frequently, and dont advertise who they are, but the other societies (a 'Belt society, and one or two magic kingdoms out in the Jovian moons or distant system) come frequently enough that the few places that can receive them (Lazlo, Arzno, Alexandria - I.E. non-Splugorth places with Pyramids) have relatively "regular" contact with Orbitals.

Enough that they have learned the basics (the major nations and their origins), and are aware that Humanity survives out there in Space. The tech powers only know the basics (because its not like they talk to Lazlo a lot), but their spies have gotten ahold of the basic information. Lazlo and Co. know more, and do some middling level of trade with the Orbital magic kingdoms. (Trading magical knowledge, a few basic supplies - like plant seeds that didn't exist in Orbit anymore - but nothing wholesale).

However, given that large-scale trade would simply be uneconomical and impractical, thats about the end of it. They Orbitals are free to come and trade and visit as far as Lazlo, etc are concerned.

The Tech powers (like the CS, Triax, NG, Wilks; the Warlords and Sovietski aren't aware because no one has bothered to tell them) are aware of the Orbital communities (the basics theyve managed to steal/get from Lazlo) but its not something that is public knowledge, and none of them are particularly concerned about trying to contact the Orbitals or get into space at this point (as the info they do have from the Orbitals has made it clear that getting into and out of the atmosphere wihout magic is just Not A Thing That Can Be Done), and they have plenty of their own problems to deal with.

Triax MIGHT be interested in talking to their orbital counterpart, if such a thing were possible without magic using intermediaries, but since that doesn't seem possible, its not likely to happen.

Ironically, if someone told the Sovietski that the Soviets of Mars existed, they'd probably be VERY keen on getting in touch, but no one has seen fit to tell them and that isnt likely to change. The Mars Soviets might even be able to soften the Sovietski's stance on magic (though they already are a lot softer than most tech using societies), at least to the point that the Government will expand their magic using agents and possibly start sending people to Phobos....

But this is at least 30 years away because theyll have to learn about it first.

> This makes it a little more consistent on how the information is spread and takes into account that large scale trade or transport between the two settings, even for Magic, is largely infeasible (Even Dimensional Portal only lasts a few Melee rounds and costs tons of P.P.E. and can only fit things of a certain size).

* While there is no anti-gravity technology, a recent (about 35 years ago) technological development from the European Conglomerate has allowed some ships (particularly Fighters, small freighters, and Borgs) to accelerate *much* faster than prior.

The EC engineers thought they were about to find the secret to artificial gravity or anti-gravity, but what they developed instead is something of a technological dead-end: its an energy field that reduces the G-Force stresses on things inside the field... but no matter how efficient the field gets, it will never provide full protection, and it will never lead to artificial gravity or anti-gravity technology.

However, in its current form, it allows most affected beings to take about 2.5x the G-forces that they normally could.

And now, for the downside: The field generator MUST be on the outside of the bubble, making it infeasible to put on most large starships. Fighters can get away with it because only the cockpit needs to be enclosed, so the field generator can be built into the Reinforced Pilots Compartment. This allows fighters to behave a little more like we see in Bab 5 or other Mostly-Accurate sci-fi.

It cant be applied to large ships for the above mentioned reason, but within the last 10 years or so, ship builders have started building field generators around acceleration couches and (in very large ships) around crew berthing chambers deep within the ship, allowing ships to accelerate and decelerate more quickly, but these smaller fields are less efficient - they only grant about 1.5-1.8x the protection as the larger fighter versions (the bigger the ship, the less efficient they are, something to do with relative mass, technobabble blah blah). On smaller ships that do not have large crews (like a player ship - small freighter/corvette/sloop class vessels) it is possible to build the field around the entire Bridge (since it is interior to the ship) and protect the entire crew.

Unknown to anyone else, the Mars Soviet has managed to engineer a field that can be built into their large space-borne Cyborg chassis - it goes inside the armored body and surrounds the organic bits of the full conversion borgs, allowing them to accelerate nearly as well as fighters. They are the only power to have miniaturized the field to this extent, and are likely the only ones to do so for at least another 20-30 years.

* There is (and actually has been, for longer) a magical equivalent of this field; it can be built into small Technowizard spacecraft (nothing bigger than a fighter), or (on larger ships) it is actually built into the TW Armor/Armored Flight Suits of the crew. Until the development of the technological field, this provided the Wizard nations an advantage (and still does, as theirs is slightly more effective; about 3x normal G-forces) in addition to their ability to teleport ships from Nexus to Nexus.

Given that their base-line ships are weaker (in terms of MDC/durability, power of their individual weapons, etc) this equates to relative parity (since the ships can be made Immune to Energy and have Armor of Ithan Force Fields).

> My goal with the above is to make the space combat feel more like Wing Commander (where Fighters are quite important and the primary striking-power of the Space Powers because capital ships are slow and not very maneuverable), without making it into Star Wars with WW2 fighter-plane-in-space Physics, and can reduce some travel times to weeks instead of months.

* By... mutual understanding/agreement, most Space ships, Fighters, spaceborne Power Armor and Borgs do NOT make extensive use of non-explosive projectile weapons. There isn't a specific treaty or agreement, but given the dangers of projectile ammo continuing on and killing/destroying/harming your own forces, or bystanders, everyone just pretty much doesn't use them in open space. However, projectile weapons still see use - they simply use explosive ammo, and most are programmed to detonate once they pass a certain distance past their "effective" close-combat range. In addition, while on Rifts Earth, anything that uses magnetism is called a "Rail Gun" (because the vast majority of people using them wouldn't appreciate the difference anyway), in Orbit things are a bit more specific. Coil-gun style weapons (like most of the "common" 'Rail Guns' on Rifts Earth) are only used for short-range, personal weapons (like 'Borg guns, Close-in Power Armor weapons for use in boarding actions/actions in a gravity well/inside a facility) or as close-in, mass-fire point-defense weapons for stations. (Where the volume of fire is more important than potentially hitting some of your mobile defenders).

Otherwise, most projectile weapons are either self-powered (rockets, missiles, rocket-ammo like a Ramjet only with onboard fuel), or use a traditional Rail Gun (single shot) with explosive ammo.

Missiles, as well, are usually set to detonate when they are more than 2x past their effective powered range (thought his can be overridden) so they dont present a constant hazard.

Just more thoughts.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Oh, the Orbital version of Triax is NOT the same power-player it is on Earth; they are still an important Corporation in the European Conglomerate but they are just one of many.

Also considering keeping in an Orbital version of Mindwerks.
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by torjones »

My Rifts Earth integrates Macross (not Robotech) as part of the Golden Age, minus the Rain of Death. That makes some of the destroids and Valkyries available on Rifts Earth, and the orbital forces become an "Earth Containment Fleet" that is mostly Zentrandi and Meltrandi ships, but more than a few Human ships, ala: Macross 7 and Frontier. Since stats for everything already exists in various places around the web, I have no problem integrating them into the fleet, while using the stuff from the published books on Rifts Earth. I've used some of the EBSIS mecha in Russia and China, even in bits of South America. They still maintain the quarantine of Earth, keeping the mess on the surface limited to the surface. It doesn't change any of the political or military realities of rifts earth, just makes more fun mecha available, if somewhat more rare than GB suits.

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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Hotrod »

1. I'd throw everything out but the basic premise that space is inaccessible to the Earth and start off with an otherwise-clean slate. This elimination would include the AtB references and dual-purpose content.

2. I'd create a single central thematic and tragic conflict within the Solar System that has some bearing on the isolation of Earth.

3. I'd create a new set of rules for movement and combat in space that reflect real physics (this is where The Expanse is a good example). Gravity by acceleration/spinning, orbital mechanics, range considerations, et cetera.

4. I'd create some compelling reasons and legitimate pathways for people on the surface to go to space and people in space to go to the surface.


My version of this builds on the idea of artificial intelligence gone rogue with the Killer Satellite network. Earth's orbit and the moon are dominated by self-replicating machines that are committed to protecting humanity in space as the inviolate #1 priority. The controlling intelligence of this network has concluded that containment of Earth is an absolute priority, and it has concluded that allowing any humans in orbit or near Earth are a security risk due to their propensity to violate this containment. The central conflict thus pits humans on Mars, the Belt, and the outer planets, who want access to Earth, against the self-replicating machines that are determined to keep Earth contained and isolated.

There are no human settlements in Earth orbit or on the moon; that's the domain of the machines. Their main manufacturing base is on the Moon, but they do some interplanetary mining for essential resources to support their interdiction of Earth's orbital space. The Machines attack and destroy any ship that enters Earth's orbital space, but otherwise do not attack human settlements. The one exception to this is Mars, which they will occasionally attack in order to keep their efforts in check.

Mars is the oldest and most-developed settlement, and its population is the most-determined to re-establish access with Earth. Martian society is heavily militarized and focused on its war with the machines. It's been at war with the machine network for the last 300 years and makes occasional efforts to run the blockade and get messages through. Most of these efforts don't work. Mars relies on materials from the Belt and outer planets, especially water and nitrogen. There are some efforts to terraform Mars, but these efforts are in their infancy, and everyone lives in domes or underground.

The people of the Asteroid Belt focus on the business of living in space: mining, trade, and interplanetary ship technology. Most live and work in large spinning asteroids converted and reinforced to function as space stations with up to Earth-like gravity. Most live a nomadic life. They're a wild and diverse bunch with a lot of competing factions and value systems. Sometimes called "Spinners," referring their ships and space stations, which use intensive spin gravity when they aren't moving from place to place; many keep the spin gravity at 1G in order to keep their acceleration tolerance and strength up for rapid transit (1G acceleration) around the Solar System. Citizens of Mars and the gas giant moons require some adaptation time to live and work efficiently at 1G.

The Jovian moons Europa and Ganymede are the agricultural heart of the solar system away from Earth. They have the most self-sufficient settlements, the highest standards of living, the longest lifespans, and the most influence among humanity outside of Earth. They dislike the isolation of Earth, and they provide some support to Mars and its blockade runs, especially if they can get biological samples of plants and animals back to their genetic labs. However, the people of those moons are more focused on building humanity's self-sufficiency and expansion/colonization to other planets, moons, and asteroids. Their main focus is in genetic engineering and farming. In general, life on these moons is pretty dull, families are big, and plenty of young Jovians seek adventure out in the Solar System or in the younger colonies of the outer planets.

The Saturnine moons are newer colonies that have only recently become self-sufficient.

The Uranian and Neptunian moons have some scattered fledgling colonies and outposts, but most haven't achieved any real measure of self-sufficiency yet.
Last edited by Hotrod on Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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taalismn
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by taalismn »

Hotrod wrote:1
The Jovian moons Europa and Ganymede are the agricultural heart of the solar system away from Earth. They have the most self-sufficient settlements, the highest standards of living, the longest lifespans, and the most influence among humanity outside of Earth. They dislike the isolation of Earth, and they provide some support to Mars and its blockade runs, especially if they can get biological samples of plants and animals back to their genetic labs. However, the people of those moons are more focused on building humanity's self-sufficiency and expansion/colonization to other planets, moons, and asteroids. Their main focus is in genetic engineering and farming. In general, life on these moons is pretty dull, families are big, and plenty of young Jovians seek adventure out in the Solar System or in the younger colonies of the outer planets.

The Saturnine moons are newer colonies that have only recently become self-sufficient.

The Uranian and Neptunian moons have some scattered fledgling colonies and outposts, but most haven't achieved any real measure of self-sufficiency yet.



Having just finished reading The Quiet War and Gardens of the Sun(which have 'Outer' colonies dedicated to experimentation with genetic engineering to better survive the conditions so far out from the sun) I wholly approve. :ok:
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Re: Where Would You Go With Rifts Space?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

I go with there is no contact with space and what is up there is not part of rifts.
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