Improving Casters

[LostOne]

So I'm in a group that started playing Rifts. Two of us have played before, a long time ago. The rest are new to the game. One of the new players is playing a caster and asked if there is a way to make their spells harder to resist (boosting the number the enemy has to save against, because he's finding that most opponents are saving too easily against his spells and he ends up effectively doing little but burning PPE during a fight). He also wondered if there are ways of gaining more attacks per melee other than choosing an OCC/RCC during creation that boosts attacks and leveling up. He's spent a lot of time playing D&D 3.5 so he's used to being able to take a feat to increase spell strength and where casters in general tend to be more flexible and useful (I stopped playing casters in Rifts a long time ago, I don't really dig the options).

I honestly didn't have an answer for him. I can't think of any way to do either off hand. But it's been more than a decade since I had time to read all my books and there are new books out there I have never read cover to cover, just skimming the OCCs, gear and a bit of setting update.

I'm hoping someone who is more current/fresh in their knowledge would be able to point me in the right direction.

[ShadowLogan]

Spell Strength does go up see Rifts Ultimate Edition pg187-8 and the specific OCC/RCC in play. In RUE the progression is listed under "Magic Bonuses" for the respective OCCs, other books are likely similar but if they aren't they might use the generic one in RMB pg187 (IIRC, not sure if it was printed in other books).

Not all spells can be saved against, and some spells have modifiers or different values to roll against. Ritual versions might also be possible and have a stronger strength, but might not be practical.

Gaining Attacks per melee is very restrictive. There is only one skill that grants bonus actions (Boxing), and only a few spells do it ("Fleet Feet", "Magic Adrenal Rush", essentially "Speed Weapon" come to mind, but not much else). Other options include Bio-Wizard Augmentation (magic friendly) or Artificial Augmentation (not magic friendly) Limbs (extra pair of arms or a tail will add one attack each).

[HarleeKnight]

Have your buddy take a look at this. It' a guide to all the spells in Rifts... well, most of them anyways. It discusses which ones are useful and which ones are just garbage.

https://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/ ... 8&t=142445

[Mack]

Focus on spells that don’t have a save, such as Magic Net. Also, don’t discount spamming low level spells like Blinding Flash.

Mages tend to better at debilitating opponents instead of directly killing them.

[Shark_Force]

as i recall, one or two of the shifter pacts offer spell strength. there are also a few races that might, i can't fully recall which ones though.

that said, saving on a 12+ is about par for the course in D&D at low levels these days, so i dunno what he's so upset about if he came from there

particularly since, as noted, there are spells that can get around spell strength entirely. good ones, too.

[Axelmania]

The only race I can remember getting a +1 to spell strength was that chubby fish looking one in the Golgan Empire in Dimension Book 5, they got a boost to PPE recovery too but as a penalty, couldn't draw well from ley lines.

There's also a symbiote in Splynn Dimensional Market which gives a boost to spell strength, and I think either a magic staff or cape in one of the Minion War books.

[zexsis]

Fleet feet from palladium fantasy doubles your actions, so does speed weapon. Combine the 2 and you can make ludicrous numbers of attacks per round. Personally my group make each additive.. so if you have 4 then with both it becomes 12, not 16(we've seen numbers over well over 30 if you really start munchining with this).

Few thoughts for players coming from other games(and gms).. Rifts plays better if you make the game more about your adventure and story rather than the trivial nitty gritty of survival.. eg; its not fun to track how many rations or water you have.. or what exact gear you are wearing, or where its held on the body. Those kinds of things are much better suited to fantasy style games that are very contained to a small continent or single world at most. Rifts allows for megaversal travel, super hero characters, lots of plotting planning and really expansive stories... go with this and enjoy it. Don't tie your story to arbitrary skill rolls, or players finding the "right" item/plot thingy.. be more open, input stuff as appropriate for your story.

[dreicunan]

Shifter with a link to a God of Magic gets +1 to spell strength at lvl 4 and lvl 8, in addition to the boosts a Shifter gets at 4, 7, 10, and 13. IIRC, that is the best spell strength can get (18 at lvl 13, and already hitting 16 at lvl . Getting 8 extra spells is a nice perk, too.

I know some people play with a house rule that IQ boosts Spell Strength the same way that PE boosts save vs magic.

The parasite (not symbiote) from Splynn Dimensional Market is the Magic booster. It does boost spell strength by 1, as well as give you some extra PPE and save vs magic, but it also messes with your control, with a 20% chance of each of the following: damage or duration 20% greater, d/d 20% weaker, d/d 50% greater, d/d 50% weaker, and the best one, normal strength but you and everyone within 10 ft take 1d6 MD (so if the user isn't an MDC creature, a 1 in 5 chance of dying). It also halves PPE recovery rates.

[Axelmania]

Okay so going by your SS 18 at 13th for GOMshifters, that's 19 with the parasite, and another +1 for being an Ultrovian (Anvil Galaxy 61-62) brings you to 20

Then you need to steal the Glorious Woven One off of Hollowshade (Dyyval 26-27) to get to 22
Then you must wield Cephestrecel (Bletherad 96) to get to 24.

Do we have to stop there?

Of course... it may be a better tactic to try and get your targets penalties to save vs magic:

Karmic Power (HU2 major super ability) can invert the +4 to save vs magic into a -2 to save vs magic against your enemies...

A "cursed" Charm (Through the Glass Darkly page 44-45) is also a way to inflict a -1 on saves. Doesn't mention if you can do a -2 cursed charm for an extra 10 PPE, but it sounds reasonably enough. Unfortunately "multiple charms do not have cumulative effects", but it's be hard to hide several charms on an enemy's person anyway. Still, keep that in mind: want to curse someone? Plant a -1 to save vs magic cursed charm in his pocket before you try!

Ensorcel is good but unfortunately that requires someone failing their save first, though I think there is a penalty to save vs Ensorcel built into it...

"Soul in a Bottle" (TTGD59) similarly can utterly remove all bonuses someone has (and then you can apply your penalties!) but to do it requires them to fail a standard save to begin with...

[LostOne]

Thanks everyone. It's a shame they added a mechanic like spell strength in the RUE (which I had completely missed since I apparently skimmed that section) and not originally. Did they do errata for caster classes in previously published books?

In any case I passed this on to the player and GM. I seriously doubt we'll get a chance to get items from PFRPG though and this GM would probably seriously screw the player on any pact he made, he loves to screw with players on stuff like that.

[ShadowLogan]

Thanks everyone. It's a shame they added a mechanic like spell strength in the RUE (which I had completely missed since I apparently skimmed that section) and not originally. Did they do errata for caster classes in previously published books?

In any case I passed this on to the player and GM. I seriously doubt we'll get a chance to get items from PFRPG though and this GM would probably seriously screw the player on any pact he made, he loves to screw with players on stuff like that.

Spell Strength predates Rifts Ultimate Edition (RUE), it is in the original Rifts Main Book (pg187), it can also be found in Heroes Unlimited 2E (pg319) and Palladium Fantasy 2E (pg184, and the GM shield on the Cutting Room floor for 1E uses it) that also predate RUE. The older TMNT Transdimensional book (pg43) has Spell Strength.

Checkout the Cutting Room Floor's 1E Palladium Fantasy GM shield, there is a Wizard Combat Skill listing that includes Spell Strength Bonuses. It is for 1E, so it might require some adaption to Rifts/2E-PF. But it is a house rule.

[Library Ogre]

Thanks everyone. It's a shame they added a mechanic like spell strength in the RUE (which I had completely missed since I apparently skimmed that section) and not originally. Did they do errata for caster classes in previously published books?

In any case I passed this on to the player and GM. I seriously doubt we'll get a chance to get items from PFRPG though and this GM would probably seriously screw the player on any pact he made, he loves to screw with players on stuff like that.

Spell Strength predates Rifts Ultimate Edition (RUE), it is in the original Rifts Main Book (pg187), it can also be found in Heroes Unlimited 2E (pg319) and Palladium Fantasy 2E (pg184, and the GM shield on the Cutting Room floor for 1E uses it) that also predate RUE. The older TMNT Transdimensional book (pg43) has Spell Strength.

Checkout the Cutting Room Floor's 1E Palladium Fantasy GM shield, there is a Wizard Combat Skill listing that includes Spell Strength Bonuses. It is for 1E, so it might require some adaption to Rifts/2E-PF. But it is a house rule.

Palladium Fantasy RPG, Revised Edition (published 1983; my 10th printing is 1992) discusses Spell Strength and Spell Strength bonuses on page 57. They're integrated into the Wizard, Warlock, and Witch class tables.

It's pretty much always been part of Palladium's magic system.

[Mlp7029]

We encountered the same issue. We made spell saves a contested roll vs the current just save against a flat number. We also use the previously mentioned IQ bonuses to spell strength. Even with those my mage still focuses on spells with no save like Magic Web, Carpet of Adhesion, Mental Shock. Spells vs powerful supernatural beings are very ineffective.

[Axelmania]

making it 1d20+spell strength would be awesome for mages and very hard to resist them, I wonder if maybe spell strength should be reduced by 10 or else only add something like d12/d10/d8 to it instead of d20

[LostOne]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I passed this on to the player in need, we'll see if he gets any benefit from it.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Just use spells without saves. Mages are already insanely powerful, theres no need to make them more powerful.