Ley Line effects on magic

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm wondering if ley lines still enhance magic the way they did in the original Rifts book. It stated that range, duration, and damage are doubled when at a ley line and tripled when near a Nexus point. In the Rifts Ultimate Edition all it says is that range and duration of spells are increased by 50% when within two miles of a ley line. Did they scale the effects of ley lines back? If so, why?

We play it the way it was written in the RIFTS Main Book. There is no reason for it to have been scaled back.

[The Galactus Kid]

I'd say they probably scaled back the effects of ley lines do to all the optinal magic rules and skills in the rifters as well as some of the newer spells that came out after the RMB was published. Assuming people are using atleast some of the optional rules out of the rifters, if you left the x2 on leylines and x3 on nexus points it could make mages very insane very quickly.

Could you imagine a mage using the magic skills our of rifter 20somethings that allows him to double his spell damage on a nexus point casting Meteor? Anywhere from 4d6x10+(8x lvl of caster) to 6d6x10+(12x lvl of caster) (depending on how your GM rules the multiplication issue) to an area 240 feet in diameter where everyone in the area of effect takes full damage with a range of 600ft per level. With the only save possible is a dodge if the victims see it coming (and can some how dodge out of the area of effect in time). All for about 100ppe which a mid-level caster could pull directly from the Nexus point under the old rules if I remember correctly (under the Rue you can draw alot less PPE of a leyline or nexus point per round). That's better then most of the long range missiles (cept for range, but who really shoots at someone 400-1800 miles away on rifts earth?)

Or even worse, Sorcerous Fury? Hi, I have 150MDC per LVL, and I can shoot lightning bolts that do 6d4x10 MDC with a 600ft per LVL range. And I bio-regenerate 3d4x10 MDC per melee round. YEA!!!!!! and I didn't even do this one with the double damage skill.... weeeee! Fun times.

Meteor = 10th level spell, suggested retail price 500k-1million credits.
Sorcerous Fury = 8th level spell, suggested retail price 120k credits.

While expensive neither spell is out of line for a mid level Ley Line Walker to have.

Thats what make leylines and nexus points so valuable.

[runebeo]

The new ley line rules are somewhat OK with me, but so many times the old ley line rules are used in descriptions of T.W. vehicles, items, spells, classes and races. Double range & duration would making keeping track of a spell a lot easier, but triple is way overpowered. Dealing with ley lines in combat can get little confusing with so many things boosted. At least its not increased by 33% now that would take some time to figure out.

[sHaka]

I was miffed to see this ommited from RUE, but as GK says, no reason to assume that the rule's changed.

In fact, Arzno (a post RUE book, which is excellent) states that as a ley-line/nexus hotspot, the Grand Canyon has the usual (RMB) effect on magic and spellcasting - I'm away from books (they're located near my month old child who I daren't wake) so can't give you the precise quote.

That's enough for me to continue with the old ways.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Check out the offical Rifts Ultimate Errata

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/cutt ... Eratta.pdf

It has the rules in it as well as other fixed problems.

[Crazy Lou]

hm.. I didn't notice that the rule wasn't transferred. The only comment noted thus far is for when one is at a distance from ley lines though. i'd say that I see no reason for the old rules to be removed. It's said that new rules replace old ones, but since the old ones aren't mentioned, I'd say they still stand.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I'd say they probably scaled back the effects of ley lines do to all the optinal magic rules and skills in the rifters as well as some of the newer spells that came out after the RMB was published. Assuming people are using atleast some of the optional rules out of the rifters, if you left the x2 on leylines and x3 on nexus points it could make mages very insane very quickly.

Could you imagine a mage using the magic skills our of rifter 20somethings that allows him to double his spell damage on a nexus point casting Meteor? Anywhere from 4d6x10+(8x lvl of caster) to 6d6x10+(12x lvl of caster) (depending on how your GM rules the multiplication issue) to an area 240 feet in diameter where everyone in the area of effect takes full damage with a range of 600ft per level. With the only save possible is a dodge if the victims see it coming (and can some how dodge out of the area of effect in time). All for about 100ppe which a mid-level caster could pull directly from the Nexus point under the old rules if I remember correctly (under the Rue you can draw alot less PPE of a leyline or nexus point per round). That's better then most of the long range missiles (cept for range, but who really shoots at someone 400-1800 miles away on rifts earth?)

Or even worse, Sorcerous Fury? Hi, I have 150MDC per LVL, and I can shoot lightning bolts that do 6d4x10 MDC with a 600ft per LVL range. And I bio-regenerate 3d4x10 MDC per melee round. YEA!!!!!! and I didn't even do this one with the double damage skill.... weeeee! Fun times.

Meteor = 10th level spell, suggested retail price 500k-1million credits.
Sorcerous Fury = 8th level spell, suggested retail price 120k credits.

While expensive neither spell is out of line for a mid level Ley Line Walker to have.

Thats what make leylines and nexus points so valuable.

I agree, the fact that a mage is more powerful on a ley line or a nexus is logical to me. It should be dangerous to fight a person on thier home turf.

[Crazy Lou]

I neglected to address the above before, but i'd also agree with that statement. That's one reason why cities are often concerned if lines are running through or very near the city.

[The Galactus Kid]

Since this was the only thread that came up the most on a ley line search maybe you guys can help me. I'm a Rifts newbie so go easy on me but where are all the ley lines?? Is there a decent map of them? I'm trying to understand more about them in case i have a player play a walker or rifter. I gather from the Ultimate guide there arent many of them around or do they only list a major few? From my first impression there doesnt seem to be very many and they dont appear to go great distances so is there any major benefit of TW air ships and gliders? How do you guys use lines in your games?

Some of the best maps of ley lines are in England and Vampire Kingdoms. The others really just give maps with "High Magic Areas" so then you can just make it up. I hope that at some point a Rifts Atlas is done which would clear this up. Somewhere, there is an online rifts atlas being compiled by one of the fans on the board.

[Nekira Sudacne]

But the thing is, all the published maps only cover the major known ones. Fact is there are litterally thousands over every continent that are on no map and in some cases are only a few miles long.

[Crazy Lou]

The long and short of it is that there are ley lines where you want them to be as GM, plus the major ones that are noted in the books and the major &/or significant nexuses (like on Vampire Intelligences' pyramids, minor one near Kingsdale, the Calgary Supernexus, etc). TW airships can be very useful if you let them be, espeicially in "high magic" (read as lots of powerful, large ley lines and nexuses) areas. Or they can be useless, depending on where you want to do (also you could have TW assisted airships that cost no energy or get big bonuses on Ley Lines, but still function off the lines as well).

[Axelmania]

Warning: Topic locked because this thread died over a decade ago. Please read, and adhere to, the forum rules. ~Mack

Check out the offical Rifts Ultimate Errata

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/cutt ... Eratta.pdf

It has the rules in it as well as other fixed problems.

Updated URL: https://www.palladium-megaverse.com/ima ... Eratta.pdf

Page 12/19 of this PDF adds in red text:

Increase the range and duration of a spell by 50% when on or within 2 miles/3.2 km of a ley line.

This restores some initial semblance of RMB 163, the first tier of range/duration benefits anyway.

Doesn't seem like errata restored the 100% increase (x2) to range/duration for being ON a line (or 1 mile from nexus)...

Or 200% increase (x3) to range/duration for being within 200 feet of a nexus.

Or the 900% increase (x10) to range/duration during a Partial Solar Eclipse.

These 3 missing tiers also increased damage by these amounts too. Have they not been affirmed?

sHaka has an interesting point about Arzno, was published in 2006 the year after RUE, but the writeup for the Grand Canyon on page 12 actually just sounds like the canyon is effectively a giant ley line (despite it being in some places 18 miles wide while ley lines are usually 1/2 to 1 mile wide)

It even has "Mages may also draw an additional 10 P.P.E. per level of experience every twelve hours" from RMB, which was replaced by the 10/melee in RUE. Seems like Arzno, despite it's later publication date, was written from RMB and not RUE, and was probably not updated to be compatible with it.