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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:12 am
  

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Took a look at the Revised Conversion Book and the fact the "Palladium dragons" are gone got me by surprise, specially as i was kind of looking for some form of update on the Basilisk in particular, just to check, compare and tinker for a funny idea of mine.

Does anyone know if Rifts-compatible versions of these beasts appear in any other books?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:08 am
  

Palladin

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I think you need to get the palladium fantasy books for that. iirc, someone told kevin he needed to separate the IP of the various settings. probably around the time he sold the rights for a rifts movie.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:28 am
  

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Shark_Force wrote:
I think you need to get the palladium fantasy books for that. iirc, someone told kevin he needed to separate the IP of the various settings. probably around the time he sold the rights for a rifts movie.


It's not a bad decision per se as it makes the setting more unique and consequently gives GMs even more pieces to mix & match.

That said my PF basic is a '98 printing - no idea if it has conversion notes for Rifts. Damn, doesn't even have basilisk stats, nor Monsters & Animals, that is even older.... Ok, old Conversion Book and some messing around it is.

Question - how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:34 am
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
Took a look at the Revised Conversion Book and the fact the "Palladium dragons" are gone got me by surprise, specially as i was kind of looking for some form of update on the Basilisk in particular, just to check, compare and tinker for a funny idea of mine.

Does anyone know if Rifts-compatible versions of these beasts appear in any other books?


There are some quick conversion notes in the Dragons & Gods book for Palladium Fantasy 2nd Edition. There doesn't seem to be any real changes from Conversion Book One (1st edition), and in fact the Conversion book may be better, as it's suited for the setting. Hope this helps.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:02 am
  

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SolCanibal wrote:
Question - how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?


Macabre? Maybe. Useful? After a quick read through of Earth Elemental Magic and Stone Magic I can't find any real benefit except maybe hiding golems in a horde of statues. Even then golems need onyx eyes, so an astute adventurer could figure out which is which, plus Create Golem is an 8th level spell, which is outside the realm of most Basilisks, who seem to top out at 6th level.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:10 am
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCanibal wrote:
Question - how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?


Macabre? Maybe. Useful? After a quick read through of Earth Elemental Magic and Stone Magic I can't find any real benefit except maybe hiding golems in a horde of statues. Even then golems need onyx eyes, so an astute adventurer could figure out which is which, plus Create Golem is an 8th level spell, which is outside the realm of most Basilisks, who seem to top out at 6th level.


Well, wasn't counting on much pratical use of that anyway, more ways to further creep out the PCs in a labyrinth of staatues who were once living people (and might have been reshaped by the basilisk while in that state) but who knows, as the critter is supposed to be old i have no problem with making it of a higher level than usual.

Or i could try some other things - like using techtonic entities to animate the petrified people instead. :twisted:
Time to start up some notes to tinker with i guess.

(Truth be told, the basilisk is a red herring meant to distract the PCs from the real plot coupon - the hundreds (or more) of people that will come back to life the moment the monster dies, some Chaos Earth "survivors" among them)


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:36 am
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
SolCanibal wrote:
Question - how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?


Macabre? Maybe. Useful? After a quick read through of Earth Elemental Magic and Stone Magic I can't find any real benefit except maybe hiding golems in a horde of statues. Even then golems need onyx eyes, so an astute adventurer could figure out which is which, plus Create Golem is an 8th level spell, which is outside the realm of most Basilisks, who seem to top out at 6th level.


Well, wasn't counting on much pratical use of that anyway, more ways to further creep out the PCs in a labyrinth of staatues who were once living people (and might have been reshaped by the basilisk while in that state) but who knows, as the critter is supposed to be old i have no problem with making it of a higher level than usual.

Or i could try some other things - like using techtonic entities to animate the petrified people instead. :twisted:
Time to start up some notes to tinker with i guess.

(Truth be told, the basilisk is a red herring meant to distract the PCs from the real plot coupon - the hundreds (or more) of people that will come back to life the moment the monster dies, some Chaos Earth "survivors" among them)


If you're trying to apply the rule of cool, defiantly go with the Stone Master. It can reshape its statues or the walls of its lair into anything it wants, even partially encasing its victims into the walls. Arms and faces sticking out of walls and stuff all over the place. Give it a trove of gemstones it can draw power from. Maybe Smaug it up a little and have it partially encrusted with gems so the characters don't know why the dragon is exhibiting so many varied powers. If its just a red herring I wouldn't give it a stone pyramid to play with, unless the characters are pretty tough and your dragon is kind of weak. Just some random thoughts.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:46 am
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
SolCanibal wrote:
Question - how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?


Macabre? Maybe. Useful? After a quick read through of Earth Elemental Magic and Stone Magic I can't find any real benefit except maybe hiding golems in a horde of statues. Even then golems need onyx eyes, so an astute adventurer could figure out which is which, plus Create Golem is an 8th level spell, which is outside the realm of most Basilisks, who seem to top out at 6th level.


Well, wasn't counting on much pratical use of that anyway, more ways to further creep out the PCs in a labyrinth of staatues who were once living people (and might have been reshaped by the basilisk while in that state) but who knows, as the critter is supposed to be old i have no problem with making it of a higher level than usual.

Or i could try some other things - like using techtonic entities to animate the petrified people instead. :twisted:
Time to start up some notes to tinker with i guess.

(Truth be told, the basilisk is a red herring meant to distract the PCs from the real plot coupon - the hundreds (or more) of people that will come back to life the moment the monster dies, some Chaos Earth "survivors" among them)


If you're trying to apply the rule of cool, defiantly go with the Stone Master. It can reshape its statues or the walls of its lair into anything it wants, even partially encasing its victims into the walls. Arms and faces sticking out of walls and stuff all over the place. Give it a trove of gemstones it can draw power from. Maybe Smaug it up a little and have it partially encrusted with gems so the characters don't know why the dragon is exhibiting so many varied powers. If its just a red herring I wouldn't give it a stone pyramid to play with, unless the characters are pretty tough and your dragon is kind of weak. Just some random thoughts.


Well, it is a basilisk, they are pretty much the unwanted runts of the dragon family along with cockatrice.
And adult one is closer to the hatchlings of other races. On the pyramid i'm of two minds: In one i don't really care to make the damn thing too powerful (ain't like my PC group is exactly overpowered), on another side, a pyramid lair would make quite the sweet piece of loot. If they manage to hold it somehow, obviously. :wink:


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:22 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
, a pyramid lair would make quite the sweet piece of loot. If they manage to hold it somehow, obviously. :wink:


And you have just created an ongoing series of issues for the characters to deal with. Everyone and their brother is going to want to take that away and use it themselves (or 'rent' it to cast a spell, conveniently forgetting to mention that that spell involves human sacrifice and summoning something nasty), pyramid will need maintenance and repairs at some point, maybe word gets out about how tough they are + they have a pyramid, so now there's a tent city springing up, which turns into a shantytown, which becomes a proper settlement (if you let it get that far), and each level brings new problems. Crime, slavers, interest from more powerful factions, etc.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:40 pm
  

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TeeAychEeMarchHare wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
, a pyramid lair would make quite the sweet piece of loot. If they manage to hold it somehow, obviously. :wink:


And you have just created an ongoing series of issues for the characters to deal with. Everyone and their brother is going to want to take that away and use it themselves (or 'rent' it to cast a spell, conveniently forgetting to mention that that spell involves human sacrifice and summoning something nasty), pyramid will need maintenance and repairs at some point, maybe word gets out about how tough they are + they have a pyramid, so now there's a tent city springing up, which turns into a shantytown, which becomes a proper settlement (if you let it get that far), and each level brings new problems. Crime, slavers, interest from more powerful factions, etc.


Yes and no - the pyramid and the Basilisk's lair is sort of hidden, part of a subterranean complex under a city-state in the Magic Zone where the most of the story is set. Some people know (the basilisk is supposed to watch over something), important ones - what can be a problem on itself - but the place or its owner existence are mostly secret from the populace or local powers.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:31 pm
  

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Strangely enough, being present in Dragons and Gods didn't stop them form reprinting the Elementals (or the Demon Lords) in Dark Conversions...

Including all the fun of dark conversions Demon Lords being some weird amalgamation of their CB1 / D+G versions.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:16 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
TeeAychEeMarchHare wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
, a pyramid lair would make quite the sweet piece of loot. If they manage to hold it somehow, obviously. :wink:


And you have just created an ongoing series of issues for the characters to deal with. Everyone and their brother is going to want to take that away and use it themselves (or 'rent' it to cast a spell, conveniently forgetting to mention that that spell involves human sacrifice and summoning something nasty), pyramid will need maintenance and repairs at some point, maybe word gets out about how tough they are + they have a pyramid, so now there's a tent city springing up, which turns into a shantytown, which becomes a proper settlement (if you let it get that far), and each level brings new problems. Crime, slavers, interest from more powerful factions, etc.


Yes and no - the pyramid and the Basilisk's lair is sort of hidden, part of a subterranean complex under a city-state in the Magic Zone where the most of the story is set. Some people know (the basilisk is supposed to watch over something), important ones - what can be a problem on itself - but the place or its owner existence are mostly secret from the populace or local powers.


That's all past tense as soon as the characters interact with it.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:20 pm
  

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TeeAychEeMarchHare wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
TeeAychEeMarchHare wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
, a pyramid lair would make quite the sweet piece of loot. If they manage to hold it somehow, obviously. :wink:


And you have just created an ongoing series of issues for the characters to deal with. Everyone and their brother is going to want to take that away and use it themselves (or 'rent' it to cast a spell, conveniently forgetting to mention that that spell involves human sacrifice and summoning something nasty), pyramid will need maintenance and repairs at some point, maybe word gets out about how tough they are + they have a pyramid, so now there's a tent city springing up, which turns into a shantytown, which becomes a proper settlement (if you let it get that far), and each level brings new problems. Crime, slavers, interest from more powerful factions, etc.


Yes and no - the pyramid and the Basilisk's lair is sort of hidden, part of a subterranean complex under a city-state in the Magic Zone where the most of the story is set. Some people know (the basilisk is supposed to watch over something), important ones - what can be a problem on itself - but the place or its owner existence are mostly secret from the populace or local powers.


That's all past tense as soon as the characters interact with it.


Naah, the players might be smart and manage to keep it still hidden for their own advanta...... :lol:

(Ok, no one believed that for even a second. yes, you're a 100% correct, Tee. But they might try and that's where the fun is) :wink:


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:25 pm
  

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Instead of Stone Master, one could make the Basilisk a Fleshcrafter that knows the Stone to Flesh spell. That gets you all the squick without adding in gem powers and pyramid stuff. It could prove a good opportunity to use some of the zombies from dead reign or CE:Resurrection as well. Perhaps one of the victims believed to be human is a Pretty dead girl (or whatever the alive human looking one is called), or a Walking Grave was previously a load-bearing wall.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:48 pm
  

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Curbludgeon wrote:
Instead of Stone Master, one could make the Basilisk a Fleshcrafter that knows the Stone to Flesh spell. That gets you all the squick without adding in gem powers and pyramid stuff. It could prove a good opportunity to use some of the zombies from dead reign or CE:Resurrection as well. Perhaps one of the victims believed to be human is a Pretty dead girl (or whatever the alive human looking one is called), or a Walking Grave was previously a load-bearing wall.


No idea of where wwould one find a fleshcrafter in the first place - not to mention the Stone Master O.C.C. more easily fits with someone serving an egyptian god (kind of relevant to my game's plot) - so i'll probably stand by it. Not to mention i kind of like the image of a ridiculously vain basilisk covered in precious gems Smaug-style.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:09 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?

About as macabre as World Book 21 pages 34-35. September 1999 was when Mark Sumimoto's "Old Rock" and his "Stone Terror" business was published. First and only example in canon I can think of, though I'm sure some players might've thought of this as soon as CB1+WB2 came out.

One thing I'm wondering though... when a Basilisk uses petrification, about clothes turning to stone too, like the impression I get from Breaux's illustration.

CBp120 / DGp21 both say "even inanimate objects get a save" which makes me wonder if your clothing would make a separate savings throw than you, and maybe lead to situations like your clothes petrifying while you're fine, or vice versa.

Collectively these 2 versions have separate notes which are both important though:
*RBC mentions being in vehicle or power armor there is a 90% chance that only it is transformed
*D&G mentions being in metal armor there is a 75% chance that only the armor is transformed.

More advanced rules for % would probably be helpful here. Like if it's 75% protection by full plate, maybe lower-AR metal armor (with less SDC?) should give lower % protection? Maybe even non-metal armors might help?

This gives the impression that despite the separate saves (?) that the beam is sort of armor-piercing, it has a 10% chance of turning you to stone even if you're inside a vehicle!

More advanced considerations for vehicles should probably make sense though, as there's a pretty big difference to being in a UAR-1 Enforcer vs being in a Death's Head Transport in terms of how close you are to whichever wall gets hit by the Basilisk beam...

Not to mention wearing power armor INSIDE a vehicle should probably be some kind of added protection too, as it's like 2 layers. 10% x 10% like maybe a 1% chance, if not absolute protection.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:42 am
  

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Axelmania wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
how macabre would it be for an adult Basilisk - in a lair riddled with literal centuries of petrified victims - to be a Stone Master, Earth Warlock or even both?

About as macabre as World Book 21 pages 34-35. September 1999 was when Mark Sumimoto's "Old Rock" and his "Stone Terror" business was published. First and only example in canon I can think of, though I'm sure some players might've thought of this as soon as CB1+WB2 came out.


Have had the book for years aand yet i missed that one, weird that. Thanks a lot.

Axelmania wrote:
One thing I'm wondering though... when a Basilisk uses petrification, about clothes turning to stone too, like the impression I get from Breaux's illustration.

CBp120 / DGp21 both say "even inanimate objects get a save" which makes me wonder if your clothing would make a separate savings throw than you, and maybe lead to situations like your clothes petrifying while you're fine, or vice versa.

Collectively these 2 versions have separate notes which are both important though:
*RBC mentions being in vehicle or power armor there is a 90% chance that only it is transformed
*D&G mentions being in metal armor there is a 75% chance that only the armor is transformed.

More advanced rules for % would probably be helpful here. Like if it's 75% protection by full plate, maybe lower-AR metal armor (with less SDC?) should give lower % protection? Maybe even non-metal armors might help?


My understanding based on the CB version has always been that "full enviroment isolation" provided by the power armor or being wholy inside a closed vehicle.

Axelmania wrote:
This gives the impression that despite the separate saves (?) that the beam is sort of armor-piercing, it has a 10% chance of turning you to stone even if you're inside a vehicle!


I tend to see it from the other side, that armor offers a reasonable - if not perfect - degree of protection in the form of that "additional" saving throw. Yeah, by RAW they are not exactly mutually exclusive or anything like that, but find it more convenient to do it "by layers" from covering to user and so on. Having your clothes untouched if you got turned to stone first doesn't add much of anything, unlike beingg entrapped in a petrified armor or vehicle.

Axelmania wrote:
More advanced considerations for vehicles should probably make sense though, as there's a pretty big difference to being in a UAR-1 Enforcer vs being in a Death's Head Transport in terms of how close you are to whichever wall gets hit by the Basilisk beam...

Not to mention wearing power armor INSIDE a vehicle should probably be some kind of added protection too, as it's like 2 layers. 10% x 10% like maybe a 1% chance, if not absolute protection.


True, but then we are getting a lot of wordcount in a very outlier case, as basilisk petrification is quite particular on itself already, so i can kind of understand the decision to instead focus on other things and leave such degree of detail up to individual GM's judgement.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:01 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
I tend to see it from the other side, that armor offers a reasonable - if not perfect - degree of protection in the form of that "additional" saving throw. Yeah, by RAW they are not exactly mutually exclusive or anything like that, but find it more convenient to do it "by layers" from covering to user and so on.

The exclusivity is sort of a vague thing, like it talks about items getting a savings throw (d20) like people, but then there's also this percentile for metal armor (PF 75%) or power armor (Rifts 90%: with vehicles, including bots, being lumped in as no-better-than-PA:so buy yourself a chipwell warmonger with 3000 SDC! It will protect you more than a Dead Boy with 100 MDC!)

I'm thinking in the case where a percentile applies...
1) roll d20 for your armor
2) roll percentile
3) if percentile fails, roll d20 for yourself

The only question I'm not sure how to answer is: do you bother to roll (2) at all if (1) succeeds? Would armor not being petrified be automatic guarantee of you being protected, or is that percentile ALWAYS a thing?

SolCannibal wrote:
Having your clothes untouched if you got turned to stone first doesn't add much of anything

The basilisk might be able to pull the clothes off your statue and wear them itself?

SolCannibal wrote:
a very outlier case

Vehicles transporting troops in PA isn't that rare, pretty sure we had SAMAS in APCs and Deaths Heads since 1990.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:21 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
I tend to see it from the other side, that armor offers a reasonable - if not perfect - degree of protection in the form of that "additional" saving throw. Yeah, by RAW they are not exactly mutually exclusive or anything like that, but find it more convenient to do it "by layers" from covering to user and so on.

The exclusivity is sort of a vague thing, like it talks about items getting a savings throw (d20) like people, but then there's also this percentile for metal armor (PF 75%) or power armor (Rifts 90%: with vehicles, including bots, being lumped in as no-better-than-PA:so buy yourself a chipwell warmonger with 3000 SDC! It will protect you more than a Dead Boy with 100 MDC!)

I'm thinking in the case where a percentile applies...
1) roll d20 for your armor
2) roll percentile
3) if percentile fails, roll d20 for yourself

The only question I'm not sure how to answer is: do you bother to roll (2) at all if (1) succeeds? Would armor not being petrified be automatic guarantee of you being protected, or is that percentile ALWAYS a thing?

SolCannibal wrote:
Having your clothes untouched if you got turned to stone first doesn't add much of anything

The basilisk might be able to pull the clothes off your statue and wear them itself?

SolCannibal wrote:
a very outlier case

Vehicles transporting troops in PA isn't that rare, pretty sure we had SAMAS in APCs and Deaths Heads since 1990.


My point with "outlier" is that basilisk eye beams are on their own already an exceptional case in relation to how petrification works, so it might be seen "as overspecification of the detail of an exception" - when you already have a limited page count, that might be better used to deal with mechanics or setting elements of more general use for GMs and players as a whole.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:03 pm
  

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Given that basilisk+cockatrice reach maturity at 200 years old, I had figured they might be more numerous than other dragons (reproduce faster, 3x more generations) who reach maturity at 600 (cept woolies at 400 and hydras at 500).

Of course, Bs/Cs/Hs/Ws probably get killed off more frequently than other dragons which might keep that in check. Hard to say. The "slain on sight" reduces the average life span (which is expectancy, not maximum) to ~600(+?) despite them not dying of old age at 2000 years (ripe)


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:44 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
Given that basilisk+cockatrice reach maturity at 200 years old, I had figured they might be more numerous than other dragons (reproduce faster, 3x more generations) who reach maturity at 600 (cept woolies at 400 and hydras at 500).

Of course, Bs/Cs/Hs/Ws probably get killed off more frequently than other dragons which might keep that in check. Hard to say. The "slain on sight" reduces the average life span (which is expectancy, not maximum) to ~600(+?) despite them not dying of old age at 2000 years (ripe)


Several reasons one might expect basilisk life expectancy to be much lower.

- Basilisks are much weaker than other dragons (an adult one is still worse off than the hatchlings of a number of other breeds/species in a number of stats).

- Basilisks still count as dragons for the sake of components in the making of certain powerful rituals, magical objects and other valuable esoterical resources, making them (relatively) less risky targets to poach for such grisly but high-paying business.

- Basilisks do not possess the natural shapechanging powers common to many other variants of dragon, making them also easier to track down than their cousins.

- Most of their kind are notorious for possessing a most awful and toxic pattern of behaviour that can be a threat to nearby communities or kingdoms if left unchecked, giving the added bonus of a sort of moral justification to those people engaged in their poaching and extermination as a species.

So basically we have 4 strikes against them versus 1 or 2 in their favor. From that perspective, more than boosting their numbers, i guess the earlier maturation age might be the one factor saving the basilisk as a species from mass extinction....

But in a world or dimension with no other intelligent species to compete with or hunt them down - or they manage to strike a more amicable relationship with whatever native sapients they find - their numbers might grow quite impressive indeed.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:05 pm
  

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Cockatrice toxic breath has a range of 60 ft so I could understand how archers might get them... Basilisk eye-beams don't have any listed range, so presumably it's just 'line of sight' which is generally pretty far for most creatures... plus they have 200ft nightvision.

You'd have to be VERY intelligent and coordinated even to take out a hatchling.

Being evil-prone also would work out in their reproductive favor since unlike the stereotypical mainstream dragon they're not going to do dumb stuff like go out adventuring and exposing themselves to make friends with food.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:35 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
Cockatrice toxic breath has a range of 60 ft so I could understand how archers might get them... Basilisk eye-beams don't have any listed range, so presumably it's just 'line of sight' which is generally pretty far for most creatures... plus they have 200ft nightvision.

You'd have to be VERY intelligent and coordinated even to take out a hatchling.


It could be, and that would indeed be majorly helpful to them.
Or it could be a range of 60 ft like the toxic breath or even less.
In the absence of evidence, it could go either way. That's something in serious need of an errata.

Axelmania wrote:
Being evil-prone also would work out in their reproductive favor since unlike the stereotypical mainstream dragon they're not going to do dumb stuff like go out adventuring and exposing themselves to make friends with food.


Except they are the dragon with the "kill on sight" bad rep because of that, remember? Dumb stuff and what classifies as that or helping to avoid it can be quite relative.

Also, it ain't about good & evil per se - lots of the other dragons can be evil and are. It's about socialization/networking, as most dragons are described as quite gregarious, unlike the basilisk that are seen as cunning at best, manipulative, treacherous, greedy and lustful for power in the extreme, traits that often make them into the secret masters of thosse who associate with them.

All around bad rep does not make a good trait in helping with survivability.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:28 pm
  

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*checks CB* what I'd call the 'sister monsters' (fellow stoners) would be the Magot (p214) and the Gorgon (p223).

Magots don't have a range listed either, while Gorgons have an "approximate range" of 400ft.

PF2 still didn't give Magots a range (nor did Dark Conversions) and reduced Gorgon range to 200ft (as did Dark Conversions and Dyval)

DB10p75 finally assigned magots a range: 1000ft +100ft per level, which seems suitable for a Greater demon.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:56 pm
  

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Hero

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
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Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Axelmania wrote:
*checks CB* what I'd call the 'sister monsters' (fellow stoners) would be the Magot (p214) and the Gorgon (p223).

Magots don't have a range listed either, while Gorgons have an "approximate range" of 400ft.

PF2 still didn't give Magots a range (nor did Dark Conversions) and reduced Gorgon range to 200ft (as did Dark Conversions and Dyval)

DB10p75 finally assigned magots a range: 1000ft +100ft per level, which seems suitable for a Greater demon.


Good catch all in all. An "approximate range" of 200-400ft, depending on how one wants to balance out the basilisk in relation to them (do their petrification powers suffer from the "reflectable" limitation too?).


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:22 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
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I can't see any countermeasures like that for Gorgons, which is odd considering the source material (how Perseus beat Medusa)

That said, they have the disadvantage that you need to look the gorgon in her eyes or her snakes eyes for it to work.

As far as I can tell, a Basilisk can turn you to stone whether you look at it or not, unless you reflect it or roll decent percentile wearing metal (75) or power (90) armor.

Magots seem to work more like basilisks (only need to hit with a beam, victim doesn't need to look at you) but unlike a Basilisk/Gorgon their transformation is temporary (minutes, or hours if they spend PPE)


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:31 am
  

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Hero

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Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Axelmania wrote:
I can't see any countermeasures like that for Gorgons, which is odd considering the source material (how Perseus beat Medusa)


By finding Medusa's location looking at her reflection in his mirrored shield instead of directly and decapitating her.
That pretty much confirms the gaze's power is not supposed to be reflective, even in myth.

Axelmania wrote:
That said, they have the disadvantage that you need to look the gorgon in her eyes or her snakes eyes for it to work.

As far as I can tell, a Basilisk can turn you to stone whether you look at it or not, unless you reflect it or roll decent percentile wearing metal (75) or power (90) armor.

Magots seem to work more like basilisks (only need to hit with a beam, victim doesn't need to look at you) but unlike a Basilisk/Gorgon their transformation is temporary (minutes, or hours if they spend PPE)


So the medusa's gaze has pros & cons in relation to the basilisk's, what might sort of balance them out, while the Magots would be superior to both, due to range & virulence (but then loses big time in duration).


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:41 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
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Ah that's right, I'm probably mixing up the events in the original myth with something that probably happened in one of the dozens (hundreds) of adaptations, I'm sure at least one of them involves a beam-reflection-turning-her-to-stone though that might be more popular in basilisk myth adaptations.

I see Magots as more of a "I'm turning you to stone until I catch up with you" although they're pretty fast...

Magots don't have any percentile to roll when a beam hits your metal armor or vehicle instead of you ,which makes me wonder whether or not they have to hit bare skin to work.

I would think the "eye contact" aspect of gorgons means armor doesn't matter at all, though "I'm watching her through a video camera not glass" stuff like Triax Armor might protect against it.


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