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 Post subject: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:52 pm
  

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Supreme Being

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One challenge with Monster Tattoos is finding good critters for the lower end of the scale. Since the tattoo creates a monster with the maximum amount of MDC it's a struggle to find something useful that's also low MDC, especially for the Minor category.

For reference, the scale is (SotA, p148):
-- Minor, <51 MDC
-- Major, 51-150 MDC
-- Giant, 151-300 MDC
-- Super, 301-500 MDC

Looking for suggestions for monsters that fit in the Minor category. There's a few in Adventures in Dino Swamp (Lepidosaurs, small Razormouth Frogs, & Spiny Creepers) but that's about it.

Also, the T-Monster Man from Atlantis uses Monster tattoos at half price... would that apply to the Monster Enhancements introduced in SotA? My inclination is to say yes, it does.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:58 am
  

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Knight

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SOTA killed the Gulper Tattoo, unforgivable.

I would've applied the 50% discount to animals too, seems to fit in the same spirit, since the T-Monsters had more than average of those too.

I seem to recall that going through the Azlum Rift reduces MDC by 25% ... I wonder just how flexible monster tattoos are...


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:56 am
  

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Knight

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Mack wrote:
One challenge with Monster Tattoos is finding good critters for the lower end of the scale. Since the tattoo creates a monster with the maximum amount of MDC it's a struggle to find something useful that's also low MDC, especially for the Minor category.

For reference, the scale is (SotA, p148):
-- Minor, <51 MDC
-- Major, 51-150 MDC
-- Giant, 151-300 MDC
-- Super, 301-500 MDC

Looking for suggestions for monsters that fit in the Minor category. There's a few in Adventures in Dino Swamp (Lepidosaurs, small Razormouth Frogs, & Spiny Creepers) but that's about it.

Also, the T-Monster Man from Atlantis uses Monster tattoos at half price... would that apply to the Monster Enhancements introduced in SotA? My inclination is to say yes, it does.



I am still working through it but the new bestiary seems like a pretty good option for one stop shopping for summoners and tattoo artists who need ideas of stuff that would work for those categories.

I would rule that the t monster ability works on monster enhancements. Monsters are their big thing and so it makes sense that things that enhance their main focus would also be reduced cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:57 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
SOTA killed the Gulper Tattoo, unforgivable.

The new cap was sorely needed, and long overdue.

When Magic Tattoos first came out in Atlantis, there were few (if any) monsters with massive amounts of MDC. Then subsequent books changed that, such as New West with an 800 MDC T-Rex. The tattoo rule never accounted for that kind of critter. It desperately needed either another, higher tier, or a cap placed on it.

I appreciate the way they implemented the cap. Instead of outright eliminating monster tattoos like the T-Rex, they just limited it's MDC to a "not-outlandish" level. Yes, 150 PPE (or 75 PPE for a T-Monster Man) should only go so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:02 am
  

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Knight

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Mack wrote:
Looking for suggestions for monsters that fit in the Minor category. There's a few in Adventures in Dino Swamp (Lepidosaurs, small Razormouth Frogs, & Spiny Creepers) but that's about it.

The list of available options is actually pretty small (I don't have a complete collection, I'm querying an old database project and creatures did not get the best/consistent organization in this project so some of the results might not qualify):
-DB6 x5 of the Necrol Organic weapons might work for this (it depends how one treats the bio-weapons)
-Xiticix Worker or Xiticix Grub (might not qualify)
-Dragonfish and Swamp Sludger in SB4
-Azhures and Scampers in WB26
-CB1r has Owl Thing, Wing Tips, Worms of Taut: Nipper and Tomb Worm
-Eyes of Eylor: small size (WB2, questionable usefulness I know)
-WB4 has the Buti-fas (not sure if it meets the requirements)
-SB3 has Mega-Foot Mastica
-WB17 has the Steppe Ostrich
-WB1o/RMB have examples of typical dinos (pre-WB14-ish any dino type you could name would be a "minor")
-Tiger Shark (Ancient/Mutant) via WB7

Other options that require some level of work on the GM:
-the old RMB Random Monster Table (or similar). Since it was random/generic use the MDC roll to determine the max. value for that particular "type"
-use MD-version of SDC creatures (some precedent exists for mutants or "ancients" of a species to go from SDC to MDC)
-create/base-on "animalistic" versions of intelligent RCCs/Races
-convert SN/CoM from PF that only have SDC/HP stats into MDC (this might work)
-create variants (or sub-species) of stronger monsters to fit (these "light" variants would have less MDC than normal, might have other limitations. obviously this requires some work by the GM)
-"natural versions" of Splugorth Symbiote/Parasites in WB21: solara, Electrone, Temporal Link, Beastifier (other MDC ones in WB21/WB2 that are stronger might also work, it depends on how "natural" the symbiote/paraiste is compared to its Bio-Wizard implant version)


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:13 pm
  

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Knight

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Mack wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
SOTA killed the Gulper Tattoo, unforgivable.

The new cap was sorely needed, and long overdue.

When Magic Tattoos first came out in Atlantis, there were few (if any) monsters with massive amounts of MDC. Then subsequent books changed that, such as New West with an 800 MDC T-Rex. The tattoo rule never accounted for that kind of critter. It desperately needed either another, higher tier, or a cap placed on it.

I appreciate the way they implemented the cap. Instead of outright eliminating monster tattoos like the T-Rex, they just limited it's MDC to a "not-outlandish" level. Yes, 150 PPE (or 75 PPE for a T-Monster Man) should only go so far.


CB had the Blow Worm though, and you had necros able to summon Magots for competetive PPE costs so it doesn't seem that unbalancing.

I'd prefer higher PPE costs to activate the tats rather than to outlaw them entirely... though perhaps I misread, if it allows large monsters but with capped MDC in place of max MDC, I guess that's fine and still allows T-Men to have Pinocchio-style transports.

Perhaps that should be allowed for other categories too, though? Like instead of taking max MDC, you can assign any amount of MDC to the monster so long as it is within the rollable range for them, which would allow creating certain larger (higher average MDC) monsters using less PPE by making them more fragile?


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:50 pm
  

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A few that came to mind are the Eye Killer (CB pg 132) for 4 attacks per melee of bio manipulation, Harpy (CB pg 138) for mobility, White Slayer (Mindworks pg 61) for a fast mobile 5 attacks per melee, 6d6 melee damage fighter.

Hades and Dyval are rife with monstrous predators with supernatural abilities that hit above their MDC class. The Psi-Hawk (Hades pg 97) is a ~100 MDC, 80mph flyer with 5 attacks per melee and Psi-claws that do 6d6md (or 2d4x10+10 power strike), and have pyrokinesis and a few other psi abilities. These nasty creatures would be high on my list, even if they cost a little extra isp than the 50mdc monster category.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:18 pm
  

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Mack wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
SOTA killed the Gulper Tattoo, unforgivable.

The new cap was sorely needed, and long overdue.

When Magic Tattoos first came out in Atlantis, there were few (if any) monsters with massive amounts of MDC. Then subsequent books changed that, such as New West with an 800 MDC T-Rex. The tattoo rule never accounted for that kind of critter. It desperately needed either another, higher tier, or a cap placed on it.

I appreciate the way they implemented the cap. Instead of outright eliminating monster tattoos like the T-Rex, they just limited it's MDC to a "not-outlandish" level. Yes, 150 PPE (or 75 PPE for a T-Monster Man) should only go so far.


Yeah, I guess no more Shai-Haluds suddenly appearing.
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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:39 pm
  

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Mack wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
SOTA killed the Gulper Tattoo, unforgivable.

The new cap was sorely needed, and long overdue.

When Magic Tattoos first came out in Atlantis, there were few (if any) monsters with massive amounts of MDC. Then subsequent books changed that, such as New West with an 800 MDC T-Rex. The tattoo rule never accounted for that kind of critter. It desperately needed either another, higher tier, or a cap placed on it.

I appreciate the way they implemented the cap. Instead of outright eliminating monster tattoos like the T-Rex, they just limited it's MDC to a "not-outlandish" level. Yes, 150 PPE (or 75 PPE for a T-Monster Man) should only go so far.


I Dunno, T-Rex doesn't have much going for it other than massive MDC capacity and a nasty bite. A Juicer with a decent speed attribute could kite it without ever being in the slightest danger, and taking out just one of it's legs takes it completely out of the fight.

Basically, 150 PPE for something that is rendered 100% helpless by a carpet of adhesion or laying mines at it's feet is not something that will slow down a decent PC party for more than one turn.

I'm not even talking a twinked out party hear. a level 1 ley line walker has nothing whatsoever to fear from a T-rex. CoA, take out a leg while it cannot dodge with any ranged weapon, then leave it to starve to death, or finish it off and use it's hide to make cheep armor for the group.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:20 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Mack wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
SOTA killed the Gulper Tattoo, unforgivable.

The new cap was sorely needed, and long overdue.

When Magic Tattoos first came out in Atlantis, there were few (if any) monsters with massive amounts of MDC. Then subsequent books changed that, such as New West with an 800 MDC T-Rex. The tattoo rule never accounted for that kind of critter. It desperately needed either another, higher tier, or a cap placed on it.

I appreciate the way they implemented the cap. Instead of outright eliminating monster tattoos like the T-Rex, they just limited it's MDC to a "not-outlandish" level. Yes, 150 PPE (or 75 PPE for a T-Monster Man) should only go so far.


I Dunno, T-Rex doesn't have much going for it other than massive MDC capacity and a nasty bite. A Juicer with a decent speed attribute could kite it without ever being in the slightest danger, and taking out just one of it's legs takes it completely out of the fight.

Basically, 150 PPE for something that is rendered 100% helpless by a carpet of adhesion or laying mines at it's feet is not something that will slow down a decent PC party for more than one turn.

I'm not even talking a twinked out party hear. a level 1 ley line walker has nothing whatsoever to fear from a T-rex. CoA, take out a leg while it cannot dodge with any ranged weapon, then leave it to starve to death, or finish it off and use it's hide to make cheep armor for the group.


Yup, a well-timed/placed CoA has brought many an enemy (or PC) low.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:27 am
  

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Knight

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Mack 148 mentions "Tattoo monsters have the maxi­mum amount of M.D.C. possible for that particular type of crea­ture. Remember that super-monster M.D.C. cannot exceed 500 M.D.C."

It sounds like if the max possible rolled MDC exceeds 500 then you couldn't make it as a tat anymore. Was the idea of optionally reducing it a house rule?

ShadowLogan wrote:
-"natural versions" of Splugorth Symbiote/Parasites in WB21: solara, Electrone, Temporal Link, Beastifier (other MDC ones in WB21/WB2 that are stronger might also work, it depends on how "natural" the symbiote/paraiste is compared to its Bio-Wizard implant version)

Much as I love the idea of creating parasites/symbiotes via monster tats, given that a Beastifier contains a Boschala essence and a Temporal Link is bound to some eldritch horror, those 2 seem a bit too complicated to use.

I also can't help but wonder if the duration would be long enough to bond. Not all go into much detail about how long it takes to bond to a host, do they?


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:10 am
  

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DD The Shmey wrote:
A few that came to mind are the Eye Killer (CB pg 132) for 4 attacks per melee of bio manipulation, Harpy (CB pg 138) for mobility, White Slayer (Mindworks pg 61) for a fast mobile 5 attacks per melee, 6d6 melee damage fighter.

Hades and Dyval are rife with monstrous predators with supernatural abilities that hit above their MDC class. The Psi-Hawk (Hades pg 97) is a ~100 MDC, 80mph flyer with 5 attacks per melee and Psi-claws that do 6d6md (or 2d4x10+10 power strike), and have pyrokinesis and a few other psi abilities. These nasty creatures would be high on my list, even if they cost a little extra isp than the 50mdc monster category.


If theyre intelligent (i dont recall) then they wouldn't count as Monsters.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:35 pm
  

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Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
DD The Shmey wrote:
A few that came to mind are the Eye Killer (CB pg 132) for 4 attacks per melee of bio manipulation, Harpy (CB pg 138) for mobility, White Slayer (Mindworks pg 61) for a fast mobile 5 attacks per melee, 6d6 melee damage fighter.

Hades and Dyval are rife with monstrous predators with supernatural abilities that hit above their MDC class. The Psi-Hawk (Hades pg 97) is a ~100 MDC, 80mph flyer with 5 attacks per melee and Psi-claws that do 6d6md (or 2d4x10+10 power strike), and have pyrokinesis and a few other psi abilities. These nasty creatures would be high on my list, even if they cost a little extra isp than the 50mdc monster category.


If theyre intelligent (i dont recall) then they wouldn't count as Monsters.


Reading further it seems to me that harpies, eye killers, white slayers, and swamp sludger (from SB4) are all in the same category. Someplace between high animal intelligence and low human intelligence.

Reading the harpy has an intelligence of 1d6, and is able to understand Gobblely and dragonese at 65%.
The white slayer actually says it has animal intelligence "1d6+2 (animal)", but it is able to speak in short and simple phases in demongogian and gobblely at 75%.
The eye killer also has intelligence of 1d6+2, and can't speak but can understand a few languages and communicate with psionic empathy. It says in the description "although more intelligent than an animal, the eye killers intelligence is low by human standards"

As the harpy was specifically cited as an example in the monster tattoo power description, it tells me that if they are ok, then creatures of similar intelligence should be fine too. I must admit though that there is certainly some gray area on where the line is in the spectrum of intelligence, and it will be up to the individual GM's to determine if a creature crosses the line.

The psi-hawk says no languages, high animal intelligence, so I am pretty sure they are fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:29 pm
  

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Knight

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We should have a list of explicit named examples of allowable monsters, followed by those implied by art (appear as tats), followed by a list of explicitly excluded examples (I think elementals were out, despite lesser elementals being pretty stupid...) along with IQ (assuming that's the best guideline) of all our examples to give best guidelines for interpreting whether or not non-mentioned species would be allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:37 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
Mack 148 mentions "Tattoo monsters have the maxi­mum amount of M.D.C. possible for that particular type of crea­ture. Remember that super-monster M.D.C. cannot exceed 500 M.D.C."

It sounds like if the max possible rolled MDC exceeds 500 then you couldn't make it as a tat anymore. Was the idea of optionally reducing it a house rule?


Read higher up on the same page, under PPE Cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:12 pm
  

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Knight

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Ah I see it now:
    Even if a creature has more M.D.C. in real life, it cannot exceed 500
That seems I guess to be an override to "maximum amount of MDC possible"... so I guess I could still make a Gulper but he's only have 500 MDC instead of 4000?


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:13 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
Ah I see it now:
    Even if a creature has more M.D.C. in real life, it cannot exceed 500
That seems I guess to be an override to "maximum amount of MDC possible"... so I guess I could still make a Gulper but he's only have 500 MDC instead of 4000?

Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:56 am
  

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Knight

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Axelmania wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
-"natural versions" of Splugorth Symbiote/Parasites in WB21: solara, Electrone, Temporal Link, Beastifier (other MDC ones in WB21/WB2 that are stronger might also work, it depends on how "natural" the symbiote/paraiste is compared to its Bio-Wizard implant version)

Much as I love the idea of creating parasites/symbiotes via monster tats, given that a Beastifier contains a Boschala essence and a Temporal Link is bound to some eldritch horror, those 2 seem a bit too complicated to use.

I also can't help but wonder if the duration would be long enough to bond. Not all go into much detail about how long it takes to bond to a host, do they?

How do you get actual parasites/symbiotes via monster tats from what I said?

My list of available Parasite/Symbiotes was just that a list of said creatures that meet the requirement for MDC range that Mack was looking for specifically (less than 51MDC). The parasite/symbiotes in their natural form might not be viable as Monster Tattoos because of other attributes that Mack (or another GM) would have to work out. We know that (at least some of) parasite/symbiotes get modified from their natural form: ex Zembahk (WB2 pg 82-3 natural vs WB21 pg136-7 implant), or Malvoren (WB30 pg138-142, bio-wizard form mentioned but not detailed), or the Psymbiote (WB12 pg105-8, includes both natural and implant form), so other organisms used in bio-wizardry might also be modified especially if we don't have the "natural" version to compare to. In their "natural" form, they may or may not be viable (intelligence, must be animal-like predatory).


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:01 pm
  

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A symbiote as a Monster Tat... I’ll have to read and think about that. They don’t quite fit the theme of Monster Tats, and the bonding process raises questions (as previously noted).

My first inclination is to say No, but others may come to a different conclusion.

If nothing else, it’s food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:00 pm
  

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Knight

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Mack wrote:
A symbiote as a Monster Tat... I’ll have to read and think about that. They don’t quite fit the theme of Monster Tats, and the bonding process raises questions (as previously noted).

My first inclination is to say No, but others may come to a different conclusion.

If nothing else, it’s food for thought.

:frust:

Maybe I should put it this way, the unmodified natural version of organisms used in Bio-Wizard devices and implants (which include symbiotes and parasites). Obviously not all organisms known to be used in Bio-Wizardry are suitable (Faeries, Zemback, Psymbiote, Malvoren) as a Monster Tattoo, but that is because we have unmodified versions to look at and a definition of what constitutes an appropriate selection.

We know at least some of the organisms the Splugorth use for Bio-Wizardry are modified to be used as implants. Examples include the Zembahk and Eyes of Eylor (WB2) and Psymbiote (WB12), and the Malvoren (WB30) is modified for a Bio-Wizard Device. Additionally we know some Bio-Wziard Parasites are genetically engineered (pg114 WB2; "a handful have been genetically engineered by the Splugorth or their minions.", Bio-Wizard Parasites)

Essentially what I am suggesting is taking the Zembahk Appendage Bio-Wizard Symbiote as an example and turn it's stats back into the Zembahk RCC in WB2, but in this case they have to work out the race-equivalent information for the bio-wizard organism in question. The main sticking point though is that the GM would have to workout what the natural version of a given organism used in bio-wizardy (be it implant or device) would look like or if it was even modified for the role.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:11 pm
  

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Shadow, sorry. Not intending to frustrate you. I agree that the original, unmodified, un-bonded, symbiote should work as a Monster Tat. I'm not sure how useful they would be in that state, but it's worth a quick investigation. I'll have to take a look at those that have stats available.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:53 pm
  

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Knight

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Mack, it wasn't you specifically. I am still scratching my head on how you guys came to the reading you guys did. What the natural version of the symbiote/parasites would be I haven't a clue in many cases, since that is the only form I've seen them, but given some examples I cited previously that aren't natural symbiote/parasites a GM would have precedent that others on the list might not be naturally symbiote/parasites.

You might also want to check my initial post in this thread for sourcing monsters in the less than 51MDC range per the books, and some that would take a bit more work.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:09 pm
  

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Knight

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idea: if the Splugorth or Atlanteans ever make it to wormwood, tattoos based on parasites that only work on Wormwood since parasites die off it?


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:39 am
  

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Knight

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Axelmania wrote:
idea: if the Splugorth or Atlanteans ever make it to wormwood, tattoos based on parasites that only work on Wormwood since parasites die off it?

Wouldn't work per say. To qualify for a Monster Tattoo the organism must (WB2 pg90):
-"is that the monster is a mega-damage creature and inflicts mega-damage."
-"Only animal-like predatory monsters, such as [list examples from CB1r] can be created. Intelligent monsters like dragons [list of others], are not possible."

The second part rules out natural parasites IMHO. The only reason I suggest Bio-Wizard organisms like Symbiotes and Parasites is because there are examples that some of them are modified to fulfill that role, which means others might be modified to. A GM would then have to work out what they think a natural version of X looks like.

Wormwood wouldn't be possible by the rules (unless SotA changed things, though I am not familiar with Wormwood). However Splicer-Earth, and PW's Necrol organic equipment might be.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:59 pm
  

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Knight

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Huh, you know, I don't think I paid much attention to the absolute necessity of "predatory" before... the initial list of examples SOUNDS like they could all be predators (one might even call this "Non-Intelligent Animal-Like Monster Predator" Tattoos (NIALMPs!) as a reminder that you can't make non-predator monsters)...
    Chimera
    Dragondactyl
    Gryphon
    Harpy
    Manticore
    Melech
    Peryton
    Worms of Taut

Some new examples from later books seem simple enough. England 108 has a "Giant Spider" (although I have no idea where to find stats on that...) which sounds fine because spiders are predators, they eat flies or... I dunno what giant spiders prey upon, birds?

Africa 144 has a Mokele-mbembe/Erythrusuchus which can be found on "Monsters of Africa" on page 129. It's an interesting example because they're listed as "1D6x1000 SDC - the equivalent of 1D6x10 MDC"... but we know that for many purposes that is NOT the equivalent, right? Shouldn't that actually be an animal tattoo?

Africa 153 also has a Yahzing Multipede (from WB2) which sounds fine, although it seems odd WB2 hadn't mentioned it. All I can figure is KS probably wrote the Monster Tattoo section prior to deciding what monsters would be in the book, so he didn't think to include the Multipede as an example.

Mercs 81 similarly has a dragonSAURUS (also from WB2) in addition to the aforementioned dragonDACTYL (from CB) with the same probably explanation as above.

This begins to get interesting when we look at additional examples from other NPCs though, like Pantheons 65... Fury Beetle, okay, I guess they prey on chipmunks or something... but a PEGASUS? What does a pegasus prey upon?

Something tells me that the Rifts version isn't exactly Fluttershy. Do pegasi go around eating human children? Swallowing puppies and kittens whole? The CS should annihilate them!


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:35 am
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
The Rifts version are escaped from slavery in Atlantis and tend to react violently twords any humanoid.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:26 am
  

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Knight

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There are wild horses who are violent towards humans due to humans abusing them but we usually don't call them predators... so I think perhaps pegasi are omnivores.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:33 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
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Location: WI
@Mack and those looking for MDC Monsters for "Minor Tattoos":
Earlier I wrote "-use MD-version of SDC creatures (some precedent exists for mutants or "ancients" of a species to go from SDC to MDC)", there might be some additional precedent.

WB21 pg49 for the NPC Sight-Stealer. "This creature is a tattoo monster in the shape of a Spitting Serpent (36MDC, same fundamental stats as a cobra or poisonous snake)."

Off Hand I don't think I recall seeing a "Spitting Serpent" anywhere with MDC stats.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:27 am
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 263
ShadowLogan wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
idea: if the Splugorth or Atlanteans ever make it to wormwood, tattoos based on parasites that only work on Wormwood since parasites die off it?

Wouldn't work per say. To qualify for a Monster Tattoo the organism must (WB2 pg90):
-"is that the monster is a mega-damage creature and inflicts mega-damage."
-"Only animal-like predatory monsters, such as [list examples from CB1r] can be created. Intelligent monsters like dragons [list of others], are not possible."

The second part rules out natural parasites IMHO. The only reason I suggest Bio-Wizard organisms like Symbiotes and Parasites is because there are examples that some of them are modified to fulfill that role, which means others might be modified to. A GM would then have to work out what they think a natural version of X looks like.

Wormwood wouldn't be possible by the rules (unless SotA changed things, though I am not familiar with Wormwood). However Splicer-Earth, and PW's Necrol organic equipment might be.

I have always found the animal-like predatory monster requirement interesting as the Harpy is not listed as an animal predator. Harpies are really dumb at IQ 1D6 but they do understand 2 languages. They are certainly predatory. They are animals with higher IQ values than harpies but are listed as having animal intelligence unlike the harpy.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:52 pm
  

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Knight

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"animal intelligence" is pretty meaningless to me as I consider humans animals..

I wonder besides MDC maxing out, what about other attributes? Are they (IQ, PS...) also maxed, average, randomly rolled each time, randomly rolled ONCE?


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:37 pm
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Axelmania wrote:
"animal intelligence" is pretty meaningless to me as I consider humans animals..


That's fine, but the book clearly uses it to mean something else, so your definition isn't much to go on.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:17 am
  

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Knight

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Posts: 5393
Is it actually used to mean something else if the parameters are never defined? I'd love if Palladium had a specific IQ cutoff number, I know GURPS uses IQ1 for sentient (IQ0 non-sentient) and IQ6 for sapient (human-like) and animals are assigned IQs of 5 or less.


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:10 pm
  

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Knight

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Location: Nashville.....ish....
From Megaversal Builder:

Avian Biomech
Giant Amazon Spider
Splynn Lizard

I think all are under 50mdc max.

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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:56 pm
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Axelmania wrote:
Is it actually used to mean something else if the parameters are never defined? I'd love if Palladium had a specific IQ cutoff number, I know GURPS uses IQ1 for sentient (IQ0 non-sentient) and IQ6 for sapient (human-like) and animals are assigned IQs of 5 or less.


High Animal IQ never goes higher than 7, at least as i've seen, that said, people can have an IQ of 7, "Animal Intelligence" really means "Nonsapient"

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Monster Tattoos
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:01 am
  

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Supreme Being

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Comment: This space for rent.
A quick thanks to everyone who contributed to my query. I haven't had time to really dig back into this, but I've made note of all the suggestions.

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It's Rifts. It doesn't have to make sense.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.


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