When did they catch Doc Feral

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:07 pm

gunman_4life wrote:I was reading the background stuff in Century station the kinda slow read location by location writeups and in one area it mentions Bio-spawn and says that Doc Feral is a Felon and known criminal mastermind when did this happen. Last time I say him TMNT and other strangeness he was still a respected scientist to all the world. When did this happen who exposed him why couldn't he cover it up or buy his way out was it that big a bust. And finally is he at large or not.

..That's how B.C. decided to write it, he wasn't refering to previously published material; if you think about it, it's an inevitable course of events for a character like him.

-Mike >8]

bathawk · Unread post by **bathawk** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:36 am

what did I miss something? never got TMNT, I was one of the folks who didn't learn till later that TMNT wasn't supposed to be kidstuff the notion is similar to a power rangers rgp

but is this thread stating a villian from "that" universe is wandering around century station?

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:45 am

bathawk wrote:what did I miss something? never got TMNT, I was one of the folks who didn't learn till later that TMNT wasn't supposed to be kidstuff the notion is similar to a power rangers rgp

but is this thread stating a villian from "that" universe is wandering around century station?

Yep - Doc Freal was known to the public ans a brilliant scientist and philanthropist in the TMNT world. But in actuality, he was a sick and twisted mad doctor interested in studying mutation (often by dissecting mutant animals while they were still alive).

Apparently, he exists in the HU world (the FIRST time he was mentioned was in Villains Unlimited under the description for Spike the Monkey), and has been found out (maybe by a group of snooping mutant heroes?).

Just as a side note, Cyberworks and the KLS Corporation are also two major corporations in the HU world as well. Both were originally introduced in Rifts; Cyberworks created the A.R.C.H.I.E. series of bio-computers and the KLS Corp is notorious for creating the Glitterboy. Of course as multi-national corporations in the HU world, they definately have theri hands into everything, from entertainment to defense contracts.

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:22 pm

..And TMNT and Other Strangeness was not a kiddie game, it just seemed to be because it came out around the same time that the TMNT was kiddified with that dreadful cartoon and subsequent and equally terrible Archie comic. It was a sell out, so the grit of the old comics which was there in the game disappeared under the onslaught of pop culture.

-Mike >8]

Iczer · Unread post by **Iczer** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:49 am

I may a bit off on this but I think it's a bit rough how he's been treated.

Doc Feral is in fact, as written, a good and kind man.

He's scrupulous, pacifistic and humane. even civil beyond the bounds of more urbane alignments (aberrant springs to mind). He Just has this little twisted personality flaw vis a vis mutant animals.

I think it's a bit much to put him into the 'criminal mastermind' category, though I can see why someone would view his actions as such.

Given the tone of mutant underground, I'm finding hard to see what truly heinous criminal acts he could have done to be labelled a 'criminal mastermind' or even 'sick and twisted mad doctor'.

Batts

acreRake · Unread post by **acreRake** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:23 pm

Once, a while ago, someone on the TMNT boards was talking about killing Doc Feral, and The Wuj brought up that there would be all kinds of backlash against mutants if such a seemingly upstanding (and powerful) guy was offed by them.

That's the approach we took in our game, although it was the doing of a couple of the Terror Bears which the PCs captured and turned over to the authorities (and therefore, to the Good Doctor).

Mutant animals can basically be shot on sight in the US, and most flee to Mexico, where they can actually become citizens. It's set up some interesting adventure hooks, a nice area for potential conflict.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:46 am

1) First time I read about Doc Ferral was in the 1997 print of TMNT and way before VU

2) Feral is evil. He's a scaled down hitler. He experiments and toys with a class of the population with no regard to their well being

3) In my world powers are known OF but not knwn specifically. There isn't this great catalogue of indexed powers and abilities. So if someone with body weaponry came into the picture and slew him, there would be no way to connect the perpetraitor to the killing via a weapon. There are SO many ways to kill someone in HU.

4) if he was killed there would definately be an investigation yes, but then they get into his lab and deep dark secrets rise to the surface

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:39 pm

Mr. Montague wrote:1) First time I read about Doc Ferral was in the 1997 print of TMNT and way before VU

2) Feral is evil. He's a scaled down hitler. He experiments and toys with a class of the population with no regard to their well being

1) Well, I meant the first time he was mentioned in the HU world.

2) Feral's alignment towards humans is Scrupulous. However, nonhuman beings and mutants (and even normal animals) are not looked upon kindly by the good doctor. He will still be polite to you though, all the while vivisecting you. He's almost like the HU world's Karl Prosek.

Now, you also have to consider the differences in the TMNT and HU worlds;

In TMNT, mutation is comparitively rare, and mostly "underground" - probably not generally known or mainly the stuff of the tabloids.

In HU, there are way more mutants running around (animal and human), not to mention alien and supernatural beings. How would Doc Feral look upon these people, even known heroes? I'd say it's quite possible some superheroes (and/or villains) went looking for some of their missing buddies (possibly heroes known and adored by the public) and busted the Doc's operation.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:27 pm

to be a bit technical he would have to get his subjects from an approved vendor and keep his subjects healthy and relatively free of pain

somehow kidnapping a mutant animal and discecting it live doesn't seem to qualify.

besides experimenting on mutants is not the way to help humans what would work on the chaotic genetic struture of a 9' talking platypus will probably not work on a human or even another 9' platypus

and human society draws the line at intelligence. That's why it's ok to over fish tuna but catch a dolphin in a net and there is hell to pay (that and the cuteness factor)

It's one thing in society to experiment on a "lowly" unintelligent rat but once that rat says stop it's a whole new game

and because it's not human that makes aliens available for the good doctor, not only available but maybe even preferred

and just because there isn't a lot of them doesn't exclude them from being a class of people. Say there were 3 mexicans left in the world. Does that negate their status as mexicans? (maybe their country but not their nationality) what about finding an island with people on it. They wouldn't be lumped in with the surrounding areas, try calling a cuban a puerto rican.

and that few and far between dealio I like that much more than the existing conceved notion for heroes unlimited. I hate this power negating imprisonment stuff. it's way too normalized and not enough super or WOW.

Mutants are feared like gangasters
nothing special just menaces
I prefer them to be feared like Lovecraftian entities, Like living gods among men. The populace should be in terrible fear or struck with awe when confrtoned with flying people, a loaded dumptruck flying down the street, even simple glowing eyes

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:08 pm

okyou are missing something

he is a humanitarian
and that could mean all human kind but he is a maniacally curious geneticist
In TMNT you can be a human who gets spliced with an animal
the doc won't care
so Mutant Humans and any genetic anomoly would still be up on the block espescially because they are such an anomoly. Mutant Animals are interesting soemone who can level a 3 square block area is even more so. There isn't that oh so wonderous x-factor involved in mutant animas-strange dna, interaction with strange goo doesn't really hold the imagination as much as a genetic link tocosmic forces

and you can have no looks and look completely human and still be on his table

as for no supres

even IF it was the case that he wouldn't go after human mutants
anybody with animal abilities would be fare game
anyone with APS Plant

as for knocking down the door
well no mutant is an island. The mutant animal is bound to be friends with someone who is going to be pissed, or even part of a team

If Cheetah found out that Doc was playing with Spike in not so friendly ways, don't you think she alone could take him out and level the place or even the Masters of Speed I'm sure she could convince hellbent to help her out, and no one could stop them

another possibility is that if anyone has met up with and befriended the TMNT or Hell hound they would be good candidates for discection

BookWyrm · Unread post by **BookWyrm** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:35 pm

Doc Feral is also backed by several "silent partners" who fund his 'eternal-youth' projects, so if his was indeed caught, he'd have access to some very high-caliber lawyers ("Johnny Cochrahn for the De-fense, y'honor."), despite his company's assets being frozen by law-enforcement.

Besides, his two main hench-mutants, Karl & Igor (if I'm right) would be planning his jail break from the moment he got arrested.

Doc Feral is a Genius-level intellect, and so would have contingencies. He's the classic type of villian that just keeps coming back.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:46 pm

Karl would not help he hates the doc and would do everything he can to escape and then destroy him and the rat

otto would probably crumble without the doc around and may go ballistic while the authorities try to take him away. And depending on the public view of mutant animals they may just put him down

as for the backers yes they MAY help him but they have to weigh the risks of helping him. If they are found out and he is guilty then their reputations and status are in severe trouble. If he wins would they still want to be so close or would they now consider him their pawn and to hurry up with the damn immortality formula. Still someone is going to dig during all of this and names are going to be leaked. Also while they might back him on his research they might not know how he is going about it.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:18 pm

See that's what I don't like about a lot of HU games that superhumans are ubiquitous and can be simply hired for muscle
The chefs all have fire expulsion in case the stove goes out, the fridge is backed up by someone with APS Ice every delivery company in the world has a xspd dude for those packages that need to be there NOW
it just sucks all the mystique out of it like a starved brain sucker stumblling on a mensa gathering

it would be much easier to hire some body guards with silenced and flash suppressed tech-9s with explosive rounds

or hell tranq darts poison or nerve gas

he isn't a super villian anyhow. just a bad guy
He isn't that powerful and not every bady guy/villain is going to surround himself with Fort Knox type security

he probably feels extremely arrogant and self assured that humans love him and the cops see him as a stand up guy. The police can be there in minutes and would take any threat to him seriously. But he wouldn't want them hanging around so he would make the call if needed. All the security he would have is already listed in the TMNT

and Otto IS his super powered body guard, more depndable and loyal than any he can hire

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:29 pm

I think the main question we have to ask is "how would Doc Feral respond to aliens, supernatural creatures and even mutated humans?"

From his description in CS, I don't think people would react that way if he limited himself to experimenting on animals. I'd say he wanted to see what made some mutant humans tick (he might not consider them truly human anymore) and he got found out.

G · Unread post by G » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:19 pm

What makes everyone think its actually the REAL Dr. Feral? :eek:

Mowahahaha...

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:29 pm

there is no reason to doubt it. The guy does not work on humans. So while he may be able to nuke up a mutant animal his knowledge of doing the same with humans, let alone making an intelligent replicant of himself, is out of his knowledge and skill base.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:30 pm

that kinda depends on which comic book is standard? Most other books or the freakish current level in X-Men?

but I can break Century station down
no aliens
have soem die
some killed
or just lurking in shadows sans spandex

BookWyrm · Unread post by **BookWyrm** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:17 am

But what I think is, that Doc Feral is one of those rare classic villians that, while his alignment is Scrupulous, it's a twisted, slightly askew version of Scrupulous. Yes, he has morals & scruples (and, for you B.C. fans, so do clams), but they apply to his views on his immediate 'family' (see his entry in TMNT & OS) & humans. He could very well be wanted for multiple crimes in Century Station, but in another city, he may be reguarded as the premier genetics scientist in the country. The addage "doing wrong things for all the right reasons" is appropo to one of Feral's character.

BookWyrm · Unread post by **BookWyrm** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:02 am

Oooooo, just had a thought.........Doc Feral, after modifying his Dimensional Doohickey Machine, summons some of his counter-parts from various parallel worlds......

Doc Feral the full conversion borg, espouting the benefits of cybernetic & bionic replacement parts over genetic manipulation....

Doc Feral the super-powered megalomaniac, wanting to bring peace to the world...under HIS absolute tyrannical leadership...

Doc Feral the--humanitarian(?), so goody-goody, he makes even his other counterparts ill....

Doc Fear the sorcerer, master of Dimensional Magic, student of the Forbidden Arts....

sorry, just rambling there......

The Artist Formerly · Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:11 am

I don't buy that Doc Feral could get convicted. The kind of money and political connections he's got makes that pretty unlikely. Especially when you concider that he was victimizing a group that often isn't even concidered to have HUMAN rights.

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:32 pm

Mr. Montague wrote: Feral is evil. He's a scaled down hitler. He experiments and toys with a class of the population with no regard to their well being

..He doesn't have power like Hitler, he's more accurately compared to Dr. Mengala (sp?). He doesn't see mutant animals as sentient beings equal to humans, so he has no qualms about the experiments.

..I'll also point out that there is a faction of conspiracy theorists who believe much of todays medical knowledge has been slowly desceminated from Mengala's experiments on the Jewish people....

-Mike

MADMANMIKE · Unread post by **MADMANMIKE** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:51 am

..Theru, anything can be rationalized if you try hard enough....

-Mike

The Artist Formerly · Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:39 am

Resources like that mean he can buy all the justice he needs. The other side of the coin doesn't matter, he's swinging against the state or federal government. Tossing them is easy enough if you can afford (and he can) a legal dream team.

There's nothing wrong with experimenting on lab animals like Spike. That the whole point of Spike's existance. Nothing illegal there and any mutagenic changes or dangers can be pinned on Cosmet and Dyan Sagan (Cheeta).

The kind of money Feral has, and the class of victim he chooses for his mania makes him almost untouchable. Worst case, he gets a cruelty to animals charge, and given his very credible line of work and experiments, odds are that wouldn't fly either.

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:49 pm

The Artist Formerly wrote:Resources like that mean he can buy all the justice he needs. The other side of the coin doesn't matter, he's swinging against the state or federal government. Tossing them is easy enough if you can afford (and he can) a legal dream team.

There's nothing wrong with experimenting on lab animals like Spike. That the whole point of Spike's existance. Nothing illegal there and any mutagenic changes or dangers can be pinned on Cosmet and Dyan Sagan (Cheeta).

The kind of money Feral has, and the class of victim he chooses for his mania makes him almost untouchable. Worst case, he gets a cruelty to animals charge, and given his very credible line of work and experiments, odds are that wouldn't fly either.

Thus, that's why I think Feral (or at least the Feral in the HU world) must have started experimenting on superhumans or aliens (possibly even a popular hero). Feral is good towards humans....but he is an absolute sadist when it comes to "lower forms of life"......whether or not Feral would consider mutant humans truly human is the question. It's also unclear whether he would consider aliens as "people" too.

The Artist Formerly · Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:34 am

I think Bill put down convicted criminal meaning sadistic badguy. I just can't see this ending with Feral in jail. Pretrial, trial, and the appeal process, all that money, all that, uh tallent to draw on. A phone call to a specialist dealership on the order of Fab Inc and that's the end of that (Hey, I need a job done....).

He gets pinned, say we go with that mind controling mutant, Feral's people just stash 25K in one or two of the juror's bank accounts or something to that effect then turns around and sends the cops after them. Verdict gets tossed. Hell, he doesn't even have to plant enough evidence to get the jurors convicted of anything, just enough to get the verdict tossed. Direct a little attention to one of Bio-spawn's compeditors (Geneseys maybe?). Double jepordy applies. Game set, match.

This was just another case of Palladium not thinking things through.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:03 pm

ok Theru I agree with ou about the experimenting on death row jokes when all their appeals have been done
They got their doing horrible things to others. They can give back a little by sacrficing their bodies

Doc Feral MAY get off. but he can be convicted. Even if not and everythign is out there in the open how many mutants do you think are just going to let him be then?

no as for being legal? hell no. That would mean his lab would have to be open to scrutiny by the government, vetrinarians etc. Not to mention the government itself has to OK the use of Intelligent Animals. Careful records have to be kept etc

so even IF experimenting on the animals was Ok, which it wouldn't be Feral does not use proper procedure and ethics when using them so if not for murder for cruelty to animals at least if not murder depending on the views of the government towards them

Zenvis · Unread post by **Zenvis** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:46 pm

Cardiac wrote:Just as a side note, Cyberworks and the KLS Corporation are also two major corporations in the HU world as well. Both were originally introduced in Rifts; Cyberworks created the A.R.C.H.I.E. series of bio-computers and the KLS Corp is notorious for creating the Glitterboy. Of course as multi-national corporations in the HU world, they definately have theri hands into everything, from entertainment to defense contracts.

Funny thing is that those companies, although mentioned, really have not done much in the relms of the HU2 universe.

On the topic, how many players really remember that dimented character? My players when that name is mentioned, give me a puzzled look. However had I mentioned that name to my group 10 years ago they would of been hopping mad (he got to them alot!).

G · Unread post by G » Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:15 pm

He's too good a villian to let rot in prison, so I won't do that in my game. I wonder how Eugenics would factor into this. Since we have taken his character completly out of context, by throwing him into the HU universe (not to mention jail), his attitudes could be different as well.

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:20 pm

1) changing setting doesn't take him out of context
2) just because he is an evil genius does not make him clever
3) I am glad I am not in your game. If I work hard to put a villain away the last thing I want to seeis him out on the street again or that he escaped. I would not got he infinitely stupid route of batman and superman and hope that the authorities get it right this time I would just put 2 in the head (clips) and smile knowing I did a good deed

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:38 pm

not a miracle

I know he is scrupulous in the book but I guess it depends on your placement in the animal kingdom
to me he is very much like emperor prosek

He is defending the human species as the once and future dominant race on the planet earth

sounds a lot like the lines
"History is writeen by the winners"
and

"Majority Rules"

If he was conducting these experiments soleley on humans and held other species in a higher regard I think his alignment would change

KillWatch · Unread post by **KillWatch** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:29 am

no I haven't but alex ross does good work

Sir_Spirit · Unread post by **Sir_Spirit** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:45 am

Therumancer wrote:You are missing an important point. Doc Feral can be connected to Spike The Monkey, and thus back to "Cheetah" from "The Masters Of Speed". He stepped over the line of what even he could get away with here....
Plus you sit here and act like his political connections and such would matter if he went toe to toe with someone just as well connected. The entire story has not been told. Admittedly we don't know if it's related to the stuff in VU.
If he gets taken down by the equivilent of "Batman" and then finds that the case against him is coincidently being backed by the power, resources, and connections of "Bruce Wayne".... well he's going to have problems.
Remember in comics it's not just the bad guys who have resources.

Actually I was thinking and it occurred to me that if he were to be connected to spike then the compoany that employed him might decide to cut his losses and turn it's considerable influence against him. and considering the PR job they did with Cheetah, that infuence could do alot to turn people against him and thus ruin his career. Even if not convicted he reputation could be shattered. And if they mad him look loony enough then even Fabricators might hesitate to use him.
Just an Idea...

Killer Cyborg · Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:05 am

I've only skimmed this thread, but my take is that maybe the Doc Feral in HU isn't the same Doc Feral in TMNT.
Alternate universes, alternate Doc Ferals, alternate attitudes.
Maybe the Doc Feral in the HU universe is a bit more mean or selfish than the one in the TMNT universe.

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:32 am

Several Things;

1) Doc Feral's listed alignment IS Scrupulous, but it is a very narrowly-applied scrupulous. Basically, if you're not human, you're a slab of meat to be experimented on at his leisure. Remember that Mutant Animals (and even normal animals) are sentient living beings (whether Feral acknowledges it or not), and these are the same beings the good doctor vivisects (after removing their vocal cords so they can't scream). Feral is like a slightly different version of the Freakmaker from VU, except he doesn't do his work on normal humans.

2) It is unclear how the HU Feral would look upon mutant humans, aliens and supernatural beings (or even experiments for that matter). I'm willing to bet that he would view them as "not-human" and as candidates for vivisection to find out how they tick. This, of course, may also extend to popular or well-liked public heroes, but there would still be public outrage even if a unknown vigilante or two were cut up by Feral.

3) In the HU world - he is a "known felon" and considered to be a "mad genious" and "criminal mastermind". Whether he actually IS a criminal mastermind is a different matter - that is how he is seen by the general public (maybe as a result of a successful smear campaign), but it's easy to see him as a "mad genious" considering his cruel treatment of other living things (especially if those things include humanoids like superhumans and aliens). Either way - his practices have become general knowledge and he is reviled for it.

4) I do not remember that entry in Century Station saying he is in custody - just that he is a "known felon." He could still be at large, running secret labs all over the country. Hmmm...I wonder what would happen if he ever met up with the Freakmaker?

Cardiac · Unread post by **Cardiac** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

macksting wrote:After testing it on a few animals first. Naturally, that requires their immediate killing and dissection.

Actually, he usually doesn't kill the subjects - he prefers vivisection; he cuts ou their vocal cords and then dissects them while they are still conscious.

THAT'S why he is a sick puppy.

Zenvis · Unread post by **Zenvis** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:25 am

macksting wrote:Well, as long as you acknowledge that the Good alignments, as presented, consider killing wrong without some immediate justification.
The way I see that is, the final straw was when you busted into the enemy's lair and found innocent people standing with a death ray poised at them and the villain about to pull the trigger. Two caps to the head, the innocents are saved. Still, such things are open to interpretation.

Anyway. Killing for satisfaction, to appearances, is killing for pleasure. *shrugs* I gotta admit, I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger, even at risk of other lives.

I had some thing like that happen just last friday in a Palladium Fantasy game. They beat the villian down and fought though the carnage and met with the enemy. This was after the enemy had killed dozens of people. When he was finally defeated he was on his knees begging for mercy and the palladin coundn't give it. There just was too much death, and he being a demi-god like being, the palladin knew that he would repeat the behavior, so she killed the being in the name of mercy kill. She was principaled.

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When did they catch Doc Feral

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