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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:11 am
  

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Alright, I have been GMing for at least a decade now, having 'cut my teeth" running Robotech adventures through the 1990's and really enjoying. Recently my old playing group and some newbies got together and asked me to run something. So presently I'm running a HU2 campaign and another new guy wanted to join in with the group so we have been working on character creation. He wanted a guy that could be a telekinesis wonder like in the comic books, essentially maipulate objects with his mind. I said that wouldn't be too much of a problem. Since he is relatively new to Palladium system and not having the books yet, asked me for some assistance.

He is second level, psionic mutant, with the powers of; Telekinesis (Super), Teleknetic Force Field (Super), Telekinetic Punch, Telekinetic Push, Bio regeneration, Detect Psionics, Telepathy, and Mask ISP/Powers. I shared with him the information desfriptions for all of these powers and he sent me an email asking the following questions (see below). I answered them to the best of my ability but never having run a psionic character or played as one, I figure that I would post the questions here to get your responses. So give it a whirl, how would you answer his questions?

Here are his questions-
1) When I want to move something, do I have to roll for "strike" to
capture it or is that automatic? I would assume that it is automatic.

2) Can I move liquids? How much? Can I make liquid forms/shapes/etc.
Like make a bird out of water, since if I can lift the water, I can
sculpt the bird. Can I then make it animated also? (Make the liquid
bird "fly").

3) Can I animate singular objects? (solve a rubics cube, make a doll
dance with different limb movements simultaneously, animate a rope to
tie someone up with knots and all or make it slither like a snake, etc.) How complex of animations can I do?

4) Can I move human body parts against people's wills? (make someone
punch someone else). Lift people up, spin them around, make them crash
into others, bind their hands, make them float and dance in mid-air,
etc.

5) How strong are my kinetics against physical exertions? Say if I was
lifting something and someone else caught it and tried to pull. Who
would win out? Or if I was trying to force someone's limbs to do
something, who would win? How much strength would they need to have,
etc. Along with this, say I wanted to bend an iron bar or break
something. Would the pressure measured in pounds be the same as the
lifting ability? Same ISP usage?

6) Can I move lumps of fine objects ( a handful of salt, sand, small
rocks, etc. )

7) Can I move air? Or a billow of smoke?

8 ) I'm assuming that I exert ISP only when capturing an object with my
mind. Once "animated" I no longer exert ISP to fling it where I wish.
Is this correct?

9) How fast can I make an object go? Acceleration speed?

10) Can I make a object fly and spin at the same time?

11) Can I control something in mid-movement? (Catch a bird in the sky). Do I have to roll a strike for that? Is that dependant upon the
speed of the object?

Thanks in advance.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:54 am
  

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Questions for the ages.... Palladium is a bit light on thie details with this stuff.

I would say no roll to strike with a TK grab, unless the object is in motion (like the bird example). If you want to pick up liquids or gases, you need some kind of force field, rather than raw TK.... I say that mostly because of the Hydrokinesis power- If TK worked on water, it would be half-neutered.

No book with me, but there's a limit based on exp level for the number of objects you can manipulate at once, correct? I would use this to determine how complicated his actions can be. For example, you can swing out a person's fist with one object, can bend his elbow with two objects (upper arm and forearm), can manipulate his entire arm with three objects (torso, upper arm, forearm), manipulate both arms with five objects (torso, both upper arms, both forearms), whole body like a puppet with ten objects (head, torso, two upper arms, two forearms, two thighs, two shins).... More complicated movements would require more body parts / objects to be included.

For strength purposes, I'd match the lifting limits to whatever you're fighting- The only physical numbers that make sense.

You might consider folding in super powers instead of all psychic powers, if you want to be a TK powerhouse like the comics. Control Force Fields, Create Force Constructs, Force Aura would all be excellent things to keep this guy in the game when he runs low on ISP. It could even be a scary inner strength thing, like Phoenix.... I've always wanted to put one of my psychic PCs on the ropes, about to get crushed, and give him access to powers like those, at thie risk of allignment change and other nasty stuff.... <can't wait for X3>

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 pm
  

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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 436
Location: Newfie-land
Neb wrote:
Here are his questions-
1) When I want to move something, do I have to roll for "strike" to
capture it or is that automatic? I would assume that it is automatic.


If it is an inanimate object - no. If it is moving or being used by someone - like a living being or a hand-held weapon, then I may require a strike roll for the PSI to get a "good grip."


Quote:
2) Can I move liquids? How much? Can I make liquid forms/shapes/etc.
Like make a bird out of water, since if I can lift the water, I can
sculpt the bird. Can I then make it animated also? (Make the liquid
bird "fly").


Not with Telekinsis. For those abilities see the Hydrokinesis power (basically a speciallized offshoot of the TK power)


Quote:
3) Can I animate singular objects? (solve a rubics cube, make a doll
dance with different limb movements simultaneously, animate a rope to
tie someone up with knots and all or make it slither like a snake, etc.) How complex of animations can I do?


I would say yes - but the more intricate the motion - the more concentration it takes. Something like threading a needle, tying a knot, or animating a mannequin might take the character's full concentration (at least for a second or two or for however long he wants to maintain the effect) while just making a rope wrap around someone should't be too difficult.


Quote:
4) Can I move human body parts against people's wills? (make someone
punch someone else). Lift people up, spin them around, make them crash
into others, bind their hands, make them float and dance in mid-air,
etc.

5) How strong are my kinetics against physical exertions? Say if I was
lifting something and someone else caught it and tried to pull. Who
would win out? Or if I was trying to force someone's limbs to do
something, who would win? How much strength would they need to have,
etc. Along with this, say I wanted to bend an iron bar or break
something. Would the pressure measured in pounds be the same as the
lifting ability? Same ISP usage?


This is where the Palladium TK power breaks down - "How does TK stack up/interact with someone's natural strength?"

Go with the Baron's advice - the number of "joints" on the body you wish to use equals the number of simultaneous objects you have to manipulate. You could probably get away with swinging someone's arm by just the shoulder joint, but depending on the position of the forearm it might not reach.

However, the person being manipulated, puched against, etc, still gets to "fight back." You're going to have to figure out how much weight the TK can currently lift and use that to figure out the equivalent PS. The more ISP spent - the stronger it is.

Now, as for picking someone up and flinging them around, you would probably have to roll a strike to "grab/grapple the character", but unless there is something for him to hang on to (and he doesn't dodge), it would by easy for you to pick him up (as long as the TK is strong enough). I would let the trapped person to roll to "break free" however (as often as e can with a normal grapple/hold).


Quote:
6) Can I move lumps of fine objects ( a handful of salt, sand, small
rocks, etc. )

7) Can I move air? Or a billow of smoke?


As far as I know, no. With TK manipulate single objects up to your maximum limit (1 poer level with TK super I think)? Maybe if there were powers called "Aerokinesis" or "Terrakinesis" - specialized torms of TK like Pyro and Hydrokinesis.

Actually, come to think of it - there IS a power in Rifts Psyscape (not sure if its in Powers Unlimited 1) - Telekinetic Acceleration Attack - where you grab little bits of loose debris/objects in the surrounding area and fling them at a target at high speed.

Quote:
8 ) I'm assuming that I exert ISP only when capturing an object with my
mind. Once "animated" I no longer exert ISP to fling it where I wish.
Is this correct?


Once you spend ISP, you can manipulate objects at that level of "strength" up to the duration, or until you pump more ISP in to make it stronger.

Quote:
9) How fast can I make an object go? Acceleration speed?


Hmmm.....don't know. I think I saw something like (MEx2)=Mph or something like that in a FAQ somewhere. Not sure.

Quote:
10) Can I make a object fly and spin at the same time?


Sure, why not - just like throwing a football.

Quote:
11) Can I control something in mid-movement? (Catch a bird in the sky). Do I have to roll a strike for that? Is that dependant upon the
speed of the object?


Sure - depending on the speed. You probably wouldn't be able to catch a bullet or an arrow (but you may be able to raise a TK Force Field to block/parry it), you might be able to catch a thrown weapon or a flying bird however. Yes, I'd rule that you have to roll for a strike to catch/grab it.

_________________
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own" - Thomas Jefferson

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same god who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:37 pm
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 64
Location: Appleton, WI, USA
Cardiac wrote:
Here are his questions-
1) When I want to move something, do I have to roll for "strike" to
capture it or is that automatic? I would assume that it is automatic.

If it is an inanimate object - no. If it is moving or being used by someone - like a living being or a hand-held weapon, then I may require a strike roll for the PSI to get a "good grip."

This is how I explained it as well. That if the object that he was trying to "capture" was under the influence of another will or force that he would need to roll a strike but otherwise it was automatic.


Cardiac wrote:
2) Can I move liquids? How much? Can I make liquid forms/shapes/etc.
Like make a bird out of water, since if I can lift the water, I can
sculpt the bird. Can I then make it animated also? (Make the liquid
bird "fly").

Not with Telekinsis. For those abilities see the Hydrokinesis power (basically a speciallized offshoot of the TK power)

Ah you are correct but one of his other powers was TK Force Field (Super) which would allow for a force field to sculpt the water and then I am under the impression that he would then spend ISP to hurling the new object (the TK Force field shaped like bird filled with water). He would then be exerting the ISP for the TK Force Field and basic TK? right?


Cardiac wrote:
3) Can I animate singular objects? (solve a rubics cube, make a doll
dance with different limb movements simultaneously, animate a rope to
tie someone up with knots and all or make it slither like a snake, etc.) How complex of animations can I do?

I would say yes - but the more intricate the motion - the more concentration it takes. Something like threading a needle, tying a knot, or animating a mannequin might take the character's full concentration (at least for a second or two or for however long he wants to maintain the effect) while just making a rope wrap around someone should't be too difficult.

I agree with this and explained it to him roughly the same way. Nice to see someone thinking along the same lines.


Cardiac wrote:
4) Can I move human body parts against people's wills? (make someone
punch someone else). Lift people up, spin them around, make them crash
into others, bind their hands, make them float and dance in mid-air,
etc.

5) How strong are my kinetics against physical exertions? Say if I was
lifting something and someone else caught it and tried to pull. Who
would win out? Or if I was trying to force someone's limbs to do
something, who would win? How much strength would they need to have,
etc. Along with this, say I wanted to bend an iron bar or break
something. Would the pressure measured in pounds be the same as the
lifting ability? Same ISP usage?

This is where the Palladium TK power breaks down - "How does TK stack up/interact with someone's natural strength?"

Go with the Baron's advice - the number of "joints" on the body you wish to use equals the number of simultaneous objects you have to manipulate. You could probably get away with swinging someone's arm by just the shoulder joint, but depending on the position of the forearm it might not reach.

I found the in the description of a TK Push (Physical Power) that it describes it as having a PS of 16 +1 per level so I was operating under the speculation that if he wanted to say grab an evil-guy's arm that has a gun pointed at an innocent to have the arm point towards a hired thug...he would first have to spend the ISP for the TK then roll a strike to "grab it" then it would be a contest of PS checks to see if the evil guy was able to resist the TK pull of his arm in the direction that he did not want it to go. Does that sound logical?


Cardiac wrote:
6) Can I move lumps of fine objects ( a handful of salt, sand, small
rocks, etc. )

7) Can I move air? Or a billow of smoke?

As far as I know, no. With TK manipulate single objects up to your maximum limit (1 poer level with TK super I think)? Maybe if there were powers called "Aerokinesis" or "Terrakinesis" - specialized torms of TK like Pyro and Hydrokinesis.

Again I agree with you that the basic TK (Physical Power) and TK (Super Psionic Power) would have a difficult in doing either throw a lump of fine objects or moving air, but coupled together with his other psionic powers of TK Force Field (Super Psionic Power) and TK Push (Physical Psionic Power) that he would be able to do some of what he is asking about. Exerting the ISP for half of a force field and then ISP to hurl it at someone would handle the lump of fine objects. Meanwhile if he where to either encase a force field around the billow of smoke (TK Force Field is listed in the description as air tight) would be able to move the air, or by just taking an object that could "fan" the air, to move air away. Thoughts?

Cardiac wrote:
9) How fast can I make an object go? Acceleration speed?
Hmmm.....don't know. I think I saw something like (MEx2)=Mph or something like that in a FAQ somewhere. Not sure.

I like your idea, MEx2= mph, as I had no clue how to address this. If you can recall which FAQ you saw something about the speed of TK stuff- please let me know. Until then, I think that I would use the formula that you quickly pieced together- THANKS! :)


Cardiac wrote:
10) Can I make a object fly and spin at the same time?

Sure, why not - just like throwing a football.

That was the same as my answer to him. Anything that you could do with a normal hurled object you could probably do with little hinderance with the TK hurling.


Cardiac wrote:
11) Can I control something in mid-movement? (Catch a bird in the sky). Do I have to roll a strike for that? Is that dependant upon the
speed of the object?

Sure - depending on the speed. You probably wouldn't be able to catch a bullet or an arrow (but you may be able to raise a TK Force Field to block/parry it), you might be able to catch a thrown weapon or a flying bird however. Yes, I'd rule that you have to roll for a strike to catch/grab it.

Again it goes back to if the object or item that he is attempting to grab if it has a will or under the influence of another strong force that he would have to spend the ISP then roll a strike. I would rule out that he would be able to "catch" a bullet but could raise a TK Force Field to block (as per book description).

Thanks for your inputs Cardiac and Baron ! I'm not trying to be a rule-thumper but at the same time, I do not want the player to go overboard and allow abuse of the powers. Another other thoughts....please share.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:25 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 436
Location: Newfie-land
Neb wrote:
Cardiac wrote:
2) Can I move liquids? How much? Can I make liquid forms/shapes/etc.
Like make a bird out of water, since if I can lift the water, I can
sculpt the bird. Can I then make it animated also? (Make the liquid
bird "fly").

Not with Telekinsis. For those abilities see the Hydrokinesis power (basically a speciallized offshoot of the TK power)

Ah you are correct but one of his other powers was TK Force Field (Super) which would allow for a force field to sculpt the water and then I am under the impression that he would then spend ISP to hurling the new object (the TK Force field shaped like bird filled with water). He would then be exerting the ISP for the TK Force Field and basic TK? right?
Quote:

Well, since you put it that way - I suppose so - but it is going to be WAYYY more expensive ISP-wise. Hydrokinesis will give you more bang for your buck.


Quote:
Cardiac wrote:
4) Can I move human body parts against people's wills? (make someone
punch someone else). Lift people up, spin them around, make them crash
into others, bind their hands, make them float and dance in mid-air,
etc.

5) How strong are my kinetics against physical exertions? Say if I was
lifting something and someone else caught it and tried to pull. Who
would win out? Or if I was trying to force someone's limbs to do
something, who would win? How much strength would they need to have,
etc. Along with this, say I wanted to bend an iron bar or break
something. Would the pressure measured in pounds be the same as the
lifting ability? Same ISP usage?

This is where the Palladium TK power breaks down - "How does TK stack up/interact with someone's natural strength?"

Go with the Baron's advice - the number of "joints" on the body you wish to use equals the number of simultaneous objects you have to manipulate. You could probably get away with swinging someone's arm by just the shoulder joint, but depending on the position of the forearm it might not reach.

I found the in the description of a TK Push (Physical Power) that it describes it as having a PS of 16 +1 per level so I was operating under the speculation that if he wanted to say grab an evil-guy's arm that has a gun pointed at an innocent to have the arm point towards a hired thug...he would first have to spend the ISP for the TK then roll a strike to "grab it" then it would be a contest of PS checks to see if the evil guy was able to resist the TK pull of his arm in the direction that he did not want it to go. Does that sound logical?


Well, the PS stat for TK Push should only apply to that one power. TK push is not force specifically applied to a single target - it is more like an unfocused wave.

The TK PS should be calculated from your current max weight limit wih your TK power. Say you spend enough ISP to carry 500 lbs - that's equal to a PS of around 25. Use that for most TK "contests of strength."


Quote:
Cardiac wrote:
6) Can I move lumps of fine objects ( a handful of salt, sand, small
rocks, etc. )

7) Can I move air? Or a billow of smoke?

As far as I know, no. With TK manipulate single objects up to your maximum limit (1 poer level with TK super I think)? Maybe if there were powers called "Aerokinesis" or "Terrakinesis" - specialized torms of TK like Pyro and Hydrokinesis.

Again I agree with you that the basic TK (Physical Power) and TK (Super Psionic Power) would have a difficult in doing either throw a lump of fine objects or moving air, but coupled together with his other psionic powers of TK Force Field (Super Psionic Power) and TK Push (Physical Psionic Power) that he would be able to do some of what he is asking about. Exerting the ISP for half of a force field and then ISP to hurl it at someone would handle the lump of fine objects. Meanwhile if he where to either encase a force field around the billow of smoke (TK Force Field is listed in the description as air tight) would be able to move the air, or by just taking an object that could "fan" the air, to move air away. Thoughts?


I guess you could - but like I said earlier - it's going to be expensive.

_________________
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own" - Thomas Jefferson

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same god who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:07 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 8916
Location: Port Eclipse
my 2 cents...

Quote:
1) When I want to move something, do I have to roll for "strike" to
capture it or is that automatic? I would assume that it is automatic.


as long as the item is something you can normally lift, you do so automatically. it takes one melee action.

if you're trying to steal something out of someone's hands or off their person, they get to save vs psionics first.

Quote:
2) Can I move liquids? How much? Can I make liquid forms/shapes/etc.
Like make a bird out of water, since if I can lift the water, I can
sculpt the bird. Can I then make it animated also? (Make the liquid
bird "fly").


need Hydrokinesis to do this. if the desc for Hydrok doesn't mention any of these things, then you CAN'T do it. (don't read more into any power).

Quote:
3) Can I animate singular objects? (solve a rubics cube, make a doll
dance with different limb movements simultaneously, animate a rope to
tie someone up with knots and all or make it slither like a snake, etc.) How complex of animations can I do?


twist a rubik's cube, yes solve it, make an IQ roll :P as for simple animations, yes. remember the more convoluted/complex your actions the more concentration it takes. hopefully nobody will be sneaking up on you or TKing something off your body...

Quote:
4) Can I move human body parts against people's wills? (make someone
punch someone else). Lift people up, spin them around, make them crash
into others, bind their hands, make them float and dance in mid-air,
etc.


possibly, if they fail their save and if your TK can lift the weight. in HU many creatures have Superhuman/Superpowered strength, so bending arms may be tough...

Quote:
5) How strong are my kinetics against physical exertions? Say if I was
lifting something and someone else caught it and tried to pull. Who
would win out? Or if I was trying to force someone's limbs to do
something, who would win? How much strength would they need to have,
etc. Along with this, say I wanted to bend an iron bar or break
something. Would the pressure measured in pounds be the same as the
lifting ability? Same ISP usage?


again, depending on the weight allowances of the power and the opponent's saving throw, weight and strength, this might prove a waste of time. inanimate objects that are just there, will be easier, providing you can concentrate, lift/control the item.

if the TK power doesn't give you a specific PS or weight allowance in the description, then we'll just use your character's PS and go from there (note to GM, make sure you look at this and try a few scenarios before this bites you in the butt)

Quote:
6) Can I move lumps of fine objects ( a handful of salt, sand, small
rocks, etc. )


as long as the objects are in range, and visible (you can't lift microscropic nanobots) you can most likely lift them. I have no problem with you scooping up dirt and tossing it into NPCs eyes, since it's quite possible to do this with your hands.

again it'll take concentration and melee actions...

Quote:
7) Can I move air? Or a billow of smoke?


this takes either Hydrokinesis or Pyrokinesis...read those descriptions. If those don't mention it, then NO you don't get to do it. I don't want to turn this into a physics lesson. In general don't read more into any power than what is there.

Quote:
8 ) I'm assuming that I exert ISP only when capturing an object with my
mind. Once "animated" I no longer exert ISP to fling it where I wish.
Is this correct?


in some cases yes, but make sure you read the Duration listed with the power. If you pickup a refrigerator (assuming you can) and hold it
over a tunnel mouth to drop on Wiley Coyote when he emerges, and he doesn't emerge for several rounds (got lost) you might have to 1) pay extra 2) put object down and start over.

Quote:
9) How fast can I make an object go? Acceleration speed?


examine the power descriptions. if the HU books don't have it, the Rifts books might. a lot will depend on your PS and some accuracy might be based on your skills (eg, you have the ability to throw spears with your hand, would be useful here). We may need to come up with the skill TK Throwing.

Quote:
10) Can I make a object fly and spin at the same time?


depends on the object, your concentration level and what's going on around you. getting shot while trying to do complex manipulations is going to cause you problems. In general, if you're just trying to "amaze the natives" then sure.

Quote:
11) Can I control something in mid-movement? (Catch a bird in the sky). Do I have to roll a strike for that? Is that dependant upon the
speed of the object?


when you roll to hit, the thing might also have a dodge.

then there's also that pesky saving throw....

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:52 pm
  

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Megaversal® Ambassador Coordinator

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 1189
Location: Utah
Quote:
Here are his questions-
1) When I want to move something, do I have to roll for "strike" to
capture it or is that automatic? I would assume that it is automatic.

Automatic unless he is trying to hit something.

2) Can I move liquids? How much? Can I make liquid forms/shapes/etc.
Like make a bird out of water, since if I can lift the water, I can
sculpt the bird. Can I then make it animated also? (Make the liquid
bird "fly").

In a jar sure but otherwise notwithout hydrokinesis

3) Can I animate singular objects? (solve a rubics cube, make a doll
dance with different limb movements simultaneously, animate a rope to
tie someone up with knots and all or make it slither like a snake, etc.) How complex of animations can I do?

No, but that could be a new power; Kinetic Manipulation.

4) Can I move human body parts against people's wills? (make someone
punch someone else). Lift people up, spin them around, make them crash
into others, bind their hands, make them float and dance in mid-air,
etc.

I would say yes but the P.S. of psionics hasn't been determined as far as I'm aware.

5) How strong are my kinetics against physical exertions? Say if I was
lifting something and someone else caught it and tried to pull. Who
would win out? Or if I was trying to force someone's limbs to do
something, who would win? How much strength would they need to have,
etc. Along with this, say I wanted to bend an iron bar or break
something. Would the pressure measured in pounds be the same as the
lifting ability? Same ISP usage?

Again look at previous statement.

6) Can I move lumps of fine objects ( a handful of salt, sand, small
rocks, etc. )

Refer to the liquid statement.

7) Can I move air? Or a billow of smoke?

Refer to the liquid statement.

8 ) I'm assuming that I exert ISP only when capturing an object with my
mind. Once "animated" I no longer exert ISP to fling it where I wish.
Is this correct?

I'm not sure I understand the nature of the question.

9) How fast can I make an object go? Acceleration speed?

As with strength, they haven't determined exactly how fast or slow an object can be hurled exactly.

10) Can I make a object fly and spin at the same time?

Im not sure, I'd say no.

11) Can I control something in mid-movement? (Catch a bird in the sky). Do I have to roll a strike for that? Is that dependant upon the speed of the object?

You bet cha...

Thanks in advance.
Quote:

I hope that answers some of your questions.

_________________
Everything you can imagine is real. - Pablo Picasso
Imagination is more important than knowledge." but knowledge does help. - Albert Einstein
The gift of fantasy has meant more to me than my talent for absorbing positive knowledge. - Albert Einstein
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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:20 pm
  

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Prince of Powers

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 1816
Location: Australia
Quote:
Cardiac wrote:
Neb wrote:

Quote:
9) How fast can I make an object go? Acceleration speed?


Hmmm.....don't know. I think I saw something like (MEx2)=Mph or something like that in a FAQ somewhere. Not sure.


Ok. AS weapons weilded by TK do damage as normal weapons, we can assume it's the equivilant of normal human strength ranges (8-14 PS) More ISP equals more weight lifted, not the same weight lifted with more force, so we can assume that objects weilded with TK move the equivilant speed of a normal man throwing, say, a baseball. I guess thats between 60-80MPH. If we used the MEx2 = MPH check, aour average telekinetic would be moving objects at around 20 MPH. I don't see a 20MPH baseball hurting anyone.


Quote:
11) Can I control something in mid-movement? (Catch a bird in the sky). Do I have to roll a strike for that? Is that dependant upon the
speed of the object?


Sure - depending on the speed. You probably wouldn't be able to catch a bullet or an arrow (but you may be able to raise a TK Force Field to block/parry it), you might be able to catch a thrown weapon or a flying bird however. Yes, I'd rule that you have to roll for a strike to catch/grab it.
Quote:



Or maybe a parry. Since that is what you would use anyway.


Batts

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:46 pm
  

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Prince of Powers

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I see TK in a fair few of my HU Games, and almost every session I play Psychics Unlimited. I have developed a list of rules and limitations that define TK. It makes it less apparently useful, but keeps possible abuses out of it.

1) TK is not force in and of itself. While even immense weights can be moved with a dedicated 'teeker, TK is not an invisible attack, and can neither crush nor hurt a target. (This does not include lifting a target and then dropping them from a height.

2) TK applies Motion, not speed. As the only option for increasing damage of TK attacks depends on increasing the mass of a hurled objects, it stands to reason that a 300Lb and a 30Lb object, move at near identical speeds when moved with TK. TK moves things at an even 60-80MPH. (Or so. it's a rough guide)

3) TK cannot apply more pressure than is being used to hold it. essentially this prevents characters from undoing bolts from the sides of objects with TK. Those bolts are in pretty tight, and much more force is required above the 1 ISP required to lift a single bolt.

4) With a nod to rule 3, A human being is a complex work of complex muscles and solid bones and ligamanents. If he resists a movement, then it's beyond the capacity of a character to force him to be marionetted with TK. The key here is resistence of course. It's unlikely you will be able to snatch a gun out of a persons hand (Well done, you can lift the gun. Obviously the person who is holiding the gun up in the first place has a much better grip on the darn thing though) but if he's resisting the pull, he can no longer claim to be making an 'Aimed' shot.

5) picking people up. This is sort of a GM call. I typically allow a saving throw. Psionic saves seem a bit silly for this kind of thing though (I will myself to the floor again). Once you have a person in the air (and without super TK you arn't moving him far anyway) you don't actually stop him from pulling a gun and shooting you.

6) Other defences. Most people can swing a baseball bat as fast as TK can. IT seems reasonable to say that items held with TK are sufficiently slow enough to be countered with an autoparry instead of requiring a dodge roll.

7) Miscellaneous limitations. Needless to say, TK has no feedback, so you cannot feel what you are touching, and you need to see what you are doing to do it with TK. (a common tactic in Psychics unlimited is to employ a smoke grenade. Players lives have depended on blinding a guy in someway before a PC is hurled over a ledge) Objects in motion continue as per physics when control is lost. You cannot use TK to pull an item out a person's pocket (it's out of sight). The one item at a time rule makes using TK on water, sand or other particlised items useless.

These are just houserules. Most TK I see is the lesser power. It is extremely versitile and allows a lot of neat tricks, but it sould not be a way to do darn near everything, especially in a single lesser (or super) power.

Batts

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:57 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:43 am
Posts: 33
Heres my problem with TK. I play in a group with another player that loves TK. And his favorite thing to do is pick someone up and spin them like a top. Or if they have a helmet, grab it and try to snap their neck.

Example. I was playing a Battle Magus (180 lbs) and he had a Zapper with Super TK. we got into a fight and he picked me up and spun me all arround. couldn't shoot or cast a spell. I was dead with something like 30 ISP spent. No chance whatso ever. And he pointed out other things he could have done that i'd have no save aginst. Like collapsing a lung or pulling an eye out. Nothing can be done aginst this.

What do you guys suggest?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:46 am
  

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Champion

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Togashi Johnathan wrote:
Heres my problem with TK. I play in a group with another player that loves TK. And his favorite thing to do is pick someone up and spin them like a top. Or if they have a helmet, grab it and try to snap their neck.

Example. I was playing a Battle Magus (180 lbs) and he had a Zapper with Super TK. we got into a fight and he picked me up and spun me all arround. couldn't shoot or cast a spell. I was dead with something like 30 ISP spent. No chance whatso ever. And he pointed out other things he could have done that i'd have no save aginst. Like collapsing a lung or pulling an eye out. Nothing can be done aginst this.

What do you guys suggest?


I suggest laying a 2x4 to this player's head... :D Juuuuuuuust kidding.

My first instinct is to say your Battle Magus got hosed by someone (player, GM, or both) who takes a few 'unrealistic' liberties with the TK power. Had this Zapper's player started claiming all these 'kewl' things he could do without so much as a save roll in my game I as a GM would put the brakes on it quickly and firmly.

First of all, collapsing a lung IMO is impossible for two reasons: one, because it's not within the Zapper's line of sight (unless the lung is outside of the body), and two, because nowhere in either the TK or TK Super power descriptions does it mention being able to inflict crushing damage. I would also rule against plucking an eye out as the vast majority of the eyball itself is not visible. At the most generous I would have him make a strike roll at some severe penalties to see if he can 'get a grip' on it.

While I would allow a TK player to 'grab' someone and maybe move them around to the point of distraction (and without a save roll), I would also rule that the Zapper in this case couldn't do anything other than pick you up and move you around (takes up all his concentration). On the other hand, you should have had the opportunity to take a shot at him -- it'd be shooting wild, granted (though I might mitigate the penalties somewhat as a Battle Magus should be better with a gun than most folks), but there's always the chance of a lucky shot.

Now, as for the 'grabbing the helmet and snapping the neck' trick... the question is does the TK provide enough sudden force to do it? TK Super maybe, but I'd probably make him roll to strike (heads tend to move around a lot) and then give the intended victim roll a D20 and throw in any PE bonuses -- if that roll meets or beats the Zapper's strike roll, then the victim doesn't get his neck snapped. Of course, if the roll fails... hello mister rag doll.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:48 pm
  

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Notes on Telekinesis - Physical Psionic
The psychic essentially has the equivalent of an invisible tractor beam. The beam can only exert force in one direction at a time (vertical, horizontal, angular, even curved). The "tractor beam" can be of any thickness, and requires a direct line of sight.

Super Telekinesis - Super Psionic
This psychic can "split" the symbolic tractor beam into many (one per level). In the case of manipulating objects (like a rubic cube), think of each beam as a tentacle. If solving a rubix cube, one "beam/tentacle" holds the cube aloft while another applies force to a corner, rotating that portion of the cube. Only one complete item can be manipulated per "beam", so only single smoke particles or water particles can be moved. Thus if a psychic were to (theoretically) get to level 643 728 546 258 934 658, then they could probably move a good portion of water or smoke. However, a first level telekinetic can manipulate a bowl to scoop up the water, or a fan to blow away the smoke, even with the minor psionic power.

Any object that is connected to an intelligence (such as a person's limb, a cyborg's limb, an advanced robot's appendage etc.) can not be manipulated. The object being moved has to be unconnected to any mind which is susceptable to telepathy, empathy or other mind-to-mind psionics.

However, a telekinetic can fly by using telekinesis oh his/her belt or shoes, or strangle someone with their own necklace, or swing at someone with the gloves on a victim's hands. The only way to be safe from a telekinetic's influence is to be naked in a room where every object weighs more than the telekinetic can move.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:27 pm
  

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Champion

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Malignor wrote:
Notes on Telekinesis - Physical Psionic
The psychic essentially has the equivalent of an invisible tractor beam. The beam can only exert force in one direction at a time (vertical, horizontal, angular, even curved). The "tractor beam" can be of any thickness, and requires a direct line of sight.

Super Telekinesis - Super Psionic
This psychic can "split" the symbolic tractor beam into many (one per level). In the case of manipulating objects (like a rubic cube), think of each beam as a tentacle. If solving a rubix cube, one "beam/tentacle" holds the cube aloft while another applies force to a corner, rotating that portion of the cube. Only one complete item can be manipulated per "beam", so only single smoke particles or water particles can be moved. Thus if a psychic were to (theoretically) get to level 643 728 546 258 934 658, then they could probably move a good portion of water or smoke. However, a first level telekinetic can manipulate a bowl to scoop up the water, or a fan to blow away the smoke, even with the minor psionic power.

Any object that is connected to an intelligence (such as a person's limb, a cyborg's limb, an advanced robot's appendage etc.) can not be manipulated. The object being moved has to be unconnected to any mind which is susceptable to telepathy, empathy or other mind-to-mind psionics.

However, a telekinetic can fly by using telekinesis oh his/her belt or shoes, or strangle someone with their own necklace, or swing at someone with the gloves on a victim's hands. The only way to be safe from a telekinetic's influence is to be naked in a room where every object weighs more than the telekinetic can move.


This is good... where'd you get it?

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:43 pm
  

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Uncle Servo wrote:
Malignor wrote:
Notes on Telekinesis - Physical Psionic
The psychic essentially has the equivalent of an invisible tractor beam. The beam can only exert force in one direction at a time (vertical, horizontal, angular, even curved). The "tractor beam" can be of any thickness, and requires a direct line of sight.

Super Telekinesis - Super Psionic
This psychic can "split" the symbolic tractor beam into many (one per level). In the case of manipulating objects (like a rubic cube), think of each beam as a tentacle. If solving a rubix cube, one "beam/tentacle" holds the cube aloft while another applies force to a corner, rotating that portion of the cube. Only one complete item can be manipulated per "beam", so only single smoke particles or water particles can be moved. Thus if a psychic were to (theoretically) get to level 643 728 546 258 934 658, then they could probably move a good portion of water or smoke. However, a first level telekinetic can manipulate a bowl to scoop up the water, or a fan to blow away the smoke, even with the minor psionic power.

Any object that is connected to an intelligence (such as a person's limb, a cyborg's limb, an advanced robot's appendage etc.) can not be manipulated. The object being moved has to be unconnected to any mind which is susceptable to telepathy, empathy or other mind-to-mind psionics.

However, a telekinetic can fly by using telekinesis oh his/her belt or shoes, or strangle someone with their own necklace, or swing at someone with the gloves on a victim's hands. The only way to be safe from a telekinetic's influence is to be naked in a room where every object weighs more than the telekinetic can move.


This is good... where'd you get it?


My brain.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:59 pm
  

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Champion

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Hmph. Nicely done then. I like the 'tractor beam' analogy. :ok:

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:15 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:43 am
Posts: 33
I like it too, but this player i'm talking about is one of those guys thats always right. and he will argue to the point of violence to prove something. its never gone that far cause the other people are smart enough to just give up. but i'm sure someone out there knows the type. oh yeah, and its my roommate too... go figure.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:06 pm
  

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Togashi Johnathan wrote:
I like it too, but this player i'm talking about is one of those guys thats always right. and he will argue to the point of violence to prove something. its never gone that far cause the other people are smart enough to just give up. but i'm sure someone out there knows the type. oh yeah, and its my roommate too... go figure.


Then show him this post. I play with a guy exactly like that (he GMs the Wednesday AD&D game). The best way to handle people who think highly of themselves and their opinions is to make them self-conscious about that aspect. To prove that they aren't stubborn and so on, they'll probably give in... that one time. Unless, of course, he's proud of being self-righteous and stubborn. Then you're on your own.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:30 am
  

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Togashi Johnathan wrote:
I like it too, but this player i'm talking about is one of those guys thats always right. and he will argue to the point of violence to prove something. its never gone that far cause the other people are smart enough to just give up. but i'm sure someone out there knows the type. oh yeah, and its my roommate too... go figure.



Please, oh please, let me GM him. ::evil grin:: Bottom line, show it to your GM. The GM has final say, not him, unless he happens to be the GM then you are really screwed. ;-}

Thanks,

Darkwind

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:09 am
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Below is my 2 cents on how TK works. Take from it what you will...

Quote:
Many players and GMs feel that telekinesis applies force to an object to move it. However, what telekinesis actually does is induce kinetic energy in an object through some form of physical telepathy and sheer force of will. Kinetic energy is the energy of an object in motion. An object can gain kinetic energy naturally by being acted on by gravity, or some other force pushing or pulling it. Telekinesis can “charge” an object with kinetic energy causing motion. This is not a force that pushes or pulls the object. Nor is telekinesis a force that can crush something.

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